Warhammer 40,000 General /40kg/

If you're going down that road, you can just say "if someone's being a powergaming faggot, don't play them" and just use points for even greater granularity.

How are Grey Knights looking this edition? Are PAGK worthwhile?

Better than before, but with a weakness to horde armies. It's hard to field enough models to counter hundreds of Boyz in a 2000 point game.

Why would you ever take twin shuriken catapults over shuriken cannons? Fucking retarded GW.

What unit are you talking about? Twin Shuriken Catapult is going to be more efficient at killing GEQs and MEQs than the Shuriken Cannon due to the increased RoF, and it looks like 8e is going to be full of GEQs/MEQs.

Windriders.

-2 strength -12" range for one extra shot, really?

Well, extra strength doesn't matter as much now (depending on the thresholds) since you have to be double their toughness to wound on 2s.

Looking at vs GEQs, -2S means that you're wounding on 3's instead of 2's, or going from 5/6 wounding to 4/6 wounding, a 20% reduction. In exchange, you're going from 3 shots to 4 shots, a 33% increase.

That extra strength gives you 17% higher chance to wound MEQs and doubles GEQ toughness, and the range gives you survival. Twin shuricats give you shit.

Actively working on CWEldar damage calculations, this seems relevant. The targets to the right are, in order: GEQ, MEQ, TEQ, Land Speeder, Rhino, Land Raider, Knight.

This is average wounds-per-turn for a unit of 3 windriders attacking the same target.

So I've heard rumors that Lost and the Damned might see some stuff in 8th. Is this true?

Death Company should have jump packs if they aren't in a transport.

Yes. Well, no kinda but instead we get Renegades & Heretics in new Imperial Armour Index: Astra Militarum. So kinda the same old stuff.

Just finished CWEldar damage calculations. Wraithknight w/Ghostglaive will take three turns on average to kill a Knight.

docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1h0hk_IdJ7fivDEjMiIpKM5yMMB8HTm64lZHuKdLZCIU/edit?usp=sharing

Will do cost-calcs tomorrow.

Is that one out yet?

Do the scatter lasers have -1 to hit? Pretty sure they beat cannons if not.

Can someone explain why the Laser Blaster is only str 10 when the Dual Turbo Laser Destructor (the 2 shot, warhound sized version) is str 16?

At present, none of my calcs include penalties from things like moving and firing a Heavy weapon. So no, no -1 is included on the Scatter Lasers at present.

forgot pic

No. Coming this friday thou.

They are very different weapons. One is oversized multilaser and other one is oversized lascannon. So their differences make sense.

Laser Blaster has 50% more shots than Dual Turbo-Laser Destructor, at the cost of 6S. Against plenty of targets that S loss won't make a difference, or the difference will be from wounding on 2's to wounding on 3's, while the 50% increase in RoF more than offsets it.

you two seem to be missing the point
They are the same weapon, but one has three barrels and the other has two

notice how one is 3d3 and the other is 2d3, and then apart from the str which is what I'm questioning, they have identical ap, damage, range and IDENTICAL special rule regarding wounds of 6

Just had a first game of 8th with my Household. While they are really tough overall, their damage output is very limited overall, nevermind the huge price bump. Was still fun, but the Households will face a lot of trouble moving from here.

G-Go Illini..?

Then there is no way scatlasers beat shuricannons.

3plusplus.net/2017/06/eldar-weapons-in-40k-8th-ed/

Got my list for a 1k points tournament, whatcha think

also idk why the Gorkanaut's 3d6 shots cannon isn't on it, but I paid for it

seems a bit light on boyz

fuck boyz

I don't think I ever claimed that Scatlasers "beat" Shuricannons? I largely agree with the findings and comparisons given in the linked article. Scatlasers are a bit better damage versus light infantry, but have worse range and suffer from Heavy.

You're in 8e, user. This is 40k: Infantry edition, and you're playing a horde army. Boyz are your bread and butter.

Your math gives them shuricannons an edge when scatlasers are stationary, which is wrong.

In fluff they are different weapons.

If you choose to make an army out of 5 models, you shouldn't be able to wipe out an enemy army with just those 5 models. That would make even a single Knight broken, just like in 7E.

What specific case are you referencing, and what specifically do you see as the error? I'm checking my numbers against the linked article, and they match up.

But I already played a few matches at 1k or 1.5k both 1vs1 and 2vs2 with never more than 20 models and I still haven't lost.

>overpowered
>knights
Uh-huh. They totally were.

Your shuricannons outdamage the scatlasers against every target except GEQs. The article shows the opposite.

I think they have a (slightly) less hard time with hordes compared to them in 7th ed now that stormbolters can shit out 4 shots per model. Say, you teleport strike in a 10 man strike squad. They deploy within rapid fire range of an enemy and unleash 40 bolter shots. (If you get lucky) you can also make the charge and fuck some shit up in melee. Then, in case they don't havy any protection against it, the morale phase will take a heavy toll against the usually low leadership horde.

>knights
>not competitive in 7E

Baddie.

The only targets we have in common are guard and marines, and our numbers match up exactly as expected (mine are three times their's, as I'm using minimum unit size). In both cases Scatlasers are better at GEQs, Cannons are a smidge better at MEQs.

Got sources for that? Cos every source ive read puts them in the same family of ever increasing laser weapons. Ya got the 1 shot on a thunder hawk, the 2 shot on the warhound and the 3 shot on a reaver

Get with the times, gramps, knights haven't been overpowered for quite a while.

Gate of infinity seems pretty great now considering how it has NO restrictions as long as it's a grey knight unit. For example:

- Teleporting land raiders
- Teleporting dudes out of melee (after which they can do whatever they want just like normal)
- Giving a purgation squad gate of infinity is also great, as instead of moving they just teleport around which means they don't get penalties for when using heavy weapons.

Apparently you don't know what 7E means.

A Battlewagon's open-topped feature says that any modifiers that apply to the Battlewagon apply to it's passengers.

A Battlewagon's Mobile Fortress rule allows it to ignore the penalty for firing heavy weapons while moving.

Does this mean that the penalty for firing heavy weapons while the Battlewagon is moving therefore does not apply to the passengers?

What you think about this list+ akros as warlord and Sokar pattern stormbird with 3 reaper batterys? Its exactly 2k pts

No, there's an argument about art.

Well I fucking adore the new rules and such. First time my buddy and I finished a big game so quickly without someone getting a headache or lethargy.

No, ignoring a modifier isn't a modifier.

Can Word of the Phoenix activate soulburst in units that don't have SfD?

Ah well, even so

I decided that if something's worth doing, it's worth overdoing

Looking to start some GKs to go with my Stormtroopers, how does this lost look?
Apothecary has a Psilencer but the option isn't in Army Builder yet. Is a normal SM one because I don't want to pay the 'smite tax' for my ranged robot

Not a time where knights were overpowered, that's for sure.

I want to make an army of traitor guard but I'm not sure what the best way to represent them would be.

Should I just make a very spiky Guard army?

Renegades & Heretics. They come out this friday. The are LITERALLY the spiky guardsmen.

>what are renegades and heretics?

Oh happy day, didn't know they were coming out soon. Thanks guys!

they've been a product for years, it's just that their 8th rules are out this friday, out of curiosity, how do you not know about them?

Ah I wonder how long this new threads peace can last

Can't wait to try my Knights out after t the Orks

Never really been up to date with Forgeworld stuff since it's out of my price range, but I'm looking at the catalog now and damn some of those models are really cool.

These new necron models look great

What are you even referring to

God, I hope we get some PROPER Noise Marines again instead of having to shell out more cash for some shitty upgrade bits.

>only two ammo runts on badrukk
>only 10 ammo runts every 20 flash gitz
Take out those boyz, field more flash gitz, give them more ammo runts.

I 'm going to build an Assault Squad soon, but their datasheet made me a bit curious. Can the sergeant take only the CC-weapon and the combat shield, or both plus a pistol? It doesn't say that you have to replace anything for the combat shield, and it's just 4 points.

Fuck off noiselet, you're as bad as the Shitsters of Basshole players and the Imperial Shitters.

>Just leave the traitors to us

Love the menacing facial expression on this one. You just know he will turn you into two thin coats of paste, so you can be spread more evenly across the ground.

The guy on the lefts face gets me every time

You don't need to use FW models for your renegades and heretics infantry, spikey guardsmen, cultists etc. are all viable.

He can take Shield + CC + Pistol, yeah.

RAW a SOB cannoness can walk about dual wielding boltguns.

He can take the lot, a pistol/melee weapon, a chainsword/melee weapon and a combat shield.

>Shitsters of Basshole

jesus, why does a dedicated melee unit have so few attacks?

How are his eyes so fucking far apart?

SOUNDS like you're upset

Dohohohohoho

Chainswords give +1 attack

Nice. I guess I could turn my Sergeant into a 52 point mean killer machine with melta bombs, thunderhammer, shield and jump pack and hope he doesn't die before being useful

pic related

Also why the fuck cant i have meltaguns on my assault marines anymore

Yeah but that's still shit.

ASM get demolished by any other dedicated CC troop.

>Imperial shitters

The real question:

When will I get the rules for my Knight Castigator.

REEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

They decimate rough riders.

>implying IG is a melee race

What are the chances other factions will get boxed sets?

que?
When were you last allowed melta on assault marines?
but you're not supposed to be using them on dedicated CC are you, the whole point is that you use the jump-packs/transport to avoid that eventuality

>implying they don't have bayonets

Ah, so you shoot melee units and melee shooting units?

That makes sense for Space Marines, I guess I'm just very used to playing an army that functions very differently.