Warcraft General

Discuss the viability of the Warcraft universe as a tabletop RPG setting.
"The hand of shitposting must be forced" Edition

Sounds fun.

While the setting itself contains interesting ideas, much of the lore is a giant clusterfuck and in bad need of a rewrite.

Sucks that they take dragon power away.

They've been going over it pretty seriously with the Warcraft Chronicle retcons. The next book will cover WoW itself, so I imagine it will have some heavy, heavy retcons in it to make the story less of a miserable labyrinth.

You weren't kidding when you said Illidan has a crippling habit of making bad decisions. "Warping Argus to within spitting distance of Azeroth" has to be one of the dumbest.

he just opened a permanent portal to it (which is not much better, of course, but this is the man who wanted to destroy the polar caps of his world to smelt a single glacier)

It's not warping, it's "making a permanent portal to Argus"
But yes, FOR FUCK'S SAKE, ILLIDAN, THIS IS WHY NO ONE TRUSTS YOU WITH ANYTHING.
BECAUSE YOU PUT EVERYONE IN DANGER WITH WHATEVER HARE-BRAINED SCHEME YOU MADE UP WHILE INJECTING DEMON-JIZZ AGAIN.

Sucks that they made dragon gods into hot girls. It's almost like they're gooks in disguise.

Illidan's character traits since he was made
1. Chosen for a great destiny
2. FUCKING MORONIC EXECUTION OF EVERY PAN HE MAKES

Well I guess the scourge has to help now. Someone get kel'thuzad on the phone

Kel thuzad is such a cool motherfucker. Why are liches so good?

But Bolvar is already ordering every Ebon Knight to aim their gryphons skyward and form the vanguard. I really like that we can see Argus from almost anywhere in the world now also, it's really cool. Do we have any idea what the landscape of Argus will be like? I'm pretty sure it'll be black rocks and green lava everywhere and I really don't want it to be. The Legion have been there for thousands of years though, I can't imagine the Army of the Light have made much progress.

>implying as soon as we leave he aimt getting the graveyards raided

>Sometimes, the hand of fate must be forced.

Argus restoration/terraforming initiative when?

at least, blizzards is consistent

Legion is inching closer and closer to wod levels of garbage. Mechanical and balance issues aside the burning legion is about at threatening at this point as the iron horde.

We should have lost, or at the absolute least be consigned to needing to pull an orc- and find a new world. I want to load into stormwind and see endless armies laying siege to every settlement while burning everything else. If we mannage to BS our way to a win we need to turn around, realize that pretty much all the fresh water and viable farmland is ruined, and invade somewhere else

There must always be a retcon

Not going to happen, because apparently Azeroth has a one-of-a-kind world soul, arguably the most powerful world soul in all the cosmos. If anyone can beat the Void Lords, it's Azeroth, but if Azeroth ever gets corrupted, everything is fucked forever. This is why Sargeras is so focused on destroying Azeroth: because he doesn't want to take that chance.

It would've been nice to take some losses beyond Varian. We've seen worlds scoured clean of life by the Legion, some token invasions outside cities don't cut it. It would've been a great time to pull a new Cataclysm style world-update. You don't need everything to be Legion centric either, defias make their play while the armies of Stormwind are distracted, the Orcs move into Ashenvale some more while the Night Elves pull back to defend Hyjal once more. All sorts of stuff. I get that there are abstractions for the purpose of gameplay, but it doesn't feel like a huge apocalyptic invasion at all.

Summer is indeed upon us.

Could you people, kindly, fuck off to another board?

You know we had these threads all through Autumn last year right user? A lot of lore discussion, we're currently discussing the events of the last patch that have made the doom of the world a little more likely.

No. Go ahead and carry on in your autistic crusade to destroy Veeky Forums by making it "pure" though.

Salafist scum.

>yfw Death Knights have gotten more and more metal as Legion goes on
>yfw Death Knights are going to siege a fucking demon planet, literally raining undead onto the hordes of the Burning Legion

>You know we had these threads all through Autumn last year right user?
I know, and they devolved to utter dogshit.
Warcraft's lore is currently in rotten state, and discussing it here will just add more pollution.

Please, go back.

I really like that while Blizzard fucked up most classes campaigns they were 100% spot-on with the Death Knights. The Warriors dick about in Valhallah because that's what all Warriors wanted right? Rogues form a special secret club in the sewers and Warlocks build an army they can't use. DKs go around and resurrect every cool character they can get their hands on, nearly start a civil war and have nothing but disdain for pathetic mortal-kind who can't get their thumbs out of their arses.

What is it about DKs that makes that fit them? I'm not alone in thinking it makes more sense for Warriors and Paladins to be at the forefront of this fight I'm sure, but the DKs are the ones getting shit done.

I had fun reading the old RPG source books until they all got retconned.

We actually had a fun spring time game going when the books were coming out. I played an Orc Barbarian / Gladiator (Blademaster) / Savage running around with a huge sized thorium greatsword. He skipped off into a portal with a human paladin bro he made friends with (another PC) and the rest of the party didn't feel like following.

So next my friend and I made twin pandaren samurai. They were like by a liche

W-What happened post W3:FT? everytime theirs a Warcraft thread people keepshitalking Warcraft universe and it's basically an indecipherable mess because I have no idea what anyone's talking about considering I never got into WoW.

>nearly start a civil war
>a civil war
>one
I'd count at least three. Horde, they go and rezz Nazgrim, cut their way into Undercity, and go and kill Galen and his guys. Paladins? Sure, they got that win because muh Light, but every single one of them knows that they would've gotten pwned there otherwise. Oh, and Odyn's Storm Dragons looked nice. They look nicer undead.

>What is it about DKs that makes that fit them?
Because it was three things that made the DK class fantasy up until Legion. Undead powers, being the elite hero class, and the edge. DHs took the last one, and undead powers are more a flavor descriptor, which remains the fact that DKs are the elite. There are paladin and warrior heroes, sure, but by large the class is composed of lower level weaklings. Death Knights? All of them badass mofos, as every single one of them has been constantly fighting level-relevant threats all the way to Legion levels.

You've missed a LOT.

The Paladin order questchain winds up turning into the Paladin-Priest tagteam to beat down a dreadlord, which fits the themes for the two classes, really.

We also get a female Night Elf Paladin. Not too shabby, all told.

That's true. I was only counting the Paladins for Civil War purposes. I guess being the coolest motherfuckers does count for something afterall.

>We also get a female Night Elf Paladin.
At the expense of the priests. All priests seem to talk about is how paladins are better than them.

Heck, make it four with the Wyrmrest Accord. DKs just wiped 90% of the remaining Red Dragonflight while passing through the Ruby Sanctum, and it's worse now that dragons can't even breed anymore.
Alexstrasza's gonna be pissed.

I've not actually finished their campaign yet, my DK is stuck in levelling hell where I can't bear to go to any of the zones again.
I forgot about the Priest finale, I was more weirded out by the fact that their best decision is to hide away in a space-ship rather than instance the Cathedral of the Light in Stormwind or something.

Not the guy you were responding to, but yes, I do remember them. They were fucking awful.

Post TFT pre TBC or Vanilla as depicted in the Warcraft rpg sourcebooks is a very viable tabletop rpg setting, honestly. there were lots of cool adventure ideas scattered through them.

>role up a priest on a new server to play with friends
>quest through legion with paladin friend
>stay relatively in the dark about class hall stuff for when I level my alts
>class hall campaign; legion finds out we stole there temple and plans to come take there shit back
>call up paladins to save us because the only damage spec we have is shadow, which is about as useful as having a bundle of purple fireworks
>shit goes south fast, demons kicking down the door
>suddenly a HOLY DREADLORD flys down on a magic flying saucer, saves the day, and steals a night elf to teach her to be a paladin, a class nelves can't even be
>paladin friend says it makes sense if you go through his class hall

Being Meguka is suffering

I was initially outraged about the holy Dreadlord. But when I thought of him as a Nathrezim and not a Dreadlord it started to make a bit more sense. I've still not done the Paladin campaign as I feel blizzard might shit on my headcanon, but the Nathrezim as a race might not all have been corrupted by the Legion like all Highborne Elves didn't become Naga, so it makes sense that some of them might fight back and use the Light.

Nathrezim ARE Dreadlords, and the one thing they are famed for amongst the Legion is being professional liars.

Still some bullshit.

On the topic of this thread being Veeky Forums:
If you convinced your play group to play a Warcraft Campaign, and you could do any combination of race and class, what would you play in each era? (E.g. Warcraft 1; 2; 3; Vanilla and each expansion being a separate era)

>beyond Varian

Fuck Blizz for killing off Vol'jin.

All elven reclamation of Quel'thalas post WC3.

Outlands after TFT: Illidan is unconcious or dead as fits your purposes, the fragile alliance between the Naga/Blood elves/Broken draenei is looking shaking, you are the pointmen of each major grouping. Work to conquer Outlands, ensure those orcs don't rebel now that Illidan is in a bad way, close/open Dark portals to different worlds, keep the alliance united, or abuse it for the agenda of your own race. Players could be naga, high elves, draenei and even former Maghteridon fel orcs now in servitude to the gang.

Also one campaign during the heigt of the troll wars would be dope.

The paladin campaign is pretty much just you being told you're the greatest of all time. The DPS pally spec is more or less playing out a shounen anime.

Source: Ret pally main.

>retcon him into a dindu nuffin good boi from the community, tryna turnin his life around
>he still manages to fuck up everything

Human paladin travelling the world, meeting new races and genereally acting like a noble knight to make a good first impression of humans.

Don't bother with it. Post W3 lore is spinoff at best, fanfiction at worst.

Because he is literally the best. Has the sexiest voice, 2 time raid boss, is still alive and is like one of the most powerful magic users in the setting. Why wouldnt you ask him to come over, make snappy quips and blast some demons?

Several retarded writers pushing their shit independently of eachother.

Also, the entire storyline reeks like something a shitty DM would whip up, something bigger and badder coming up and threatening the world just to raise the steaks and characters act without reason just to enable it.

I figured Dreadlord was just their given name, but they were the race Nathrezim? Least that's how I understood it.
God dammit Blizzard.
I'd love to play a campaign set in Lordaeron during Warcraft 2, heading to Amani territory, following those damn Orcs through Arathi. I'm not sure exactly when Lothar established the Silver Hand, but I'd play a Human Paladin. Warcraft has a neat 'good god' in that it's just good. There's no "vengeance paladin" rubbish, because Vengeance must not be part of what we do Arthas".

Either an Orc Warrior seeking a Good Death or an adventurous Dwarf Hunter in search of great riches and titan lore.

So, will Illidan betray us again soon? Because I can't wait to stave the head of the stupid prick in again.
And while we're at it we could also take prime fangirl Xe'ra and toss her into the void. Make A'dal boss of all Naaru.

What better way to get the entire world to fight the demons than to bring the demons to them and give them no choice about it?

7.3 will end with Illidan teleporting Orgrimmar and Stormwind onto the surface of Argus to better fight the Legion.

I absolutely love this moment. You can see that Illidan did this purely to drop another dank meme. Just look at that smug fucking face.

It has the secondary effect of pushing the people of Azeroth to fight against the Legion or perish. The stakes are as high as they ever were. Legion isn't just in some locations somewhere being circled by troops. Every single person on Azeroth can see Argus now, the giant sword of Damocles hanging right above them. Absolutely reckless, but it gets shit done.

"If we allow these passions to turn to bloodlust, we will become as vile as the Orcs..."
"...lost your mind Arthas? How can you even consider..."
"Forget this business, lead yer men home!"
"...lied to your men, and betrayed tha mercenaries that fought for you. What's happenin' to ye Arthas?"
"Your young prince will find only death in the cold North."

He's put countless innocents in danger, and there's only so many champions to go around. In case you forgot, civilians are still a thing on Azeroth.

Its pretty insulting when you follow the events as a priest, with the High Priest of the Conclave begging the Paladins to help, even more insulting is that the Paladins consider not even helping at first.

The concept of all the priests of the holy light, forgotten shadow, loas, elune and whatever the fuck shadow priests are now peacefully sitting together praying is ludicrous to begin with.

Priest order hall should've been an ancient reclaimed temple of elune on the broken isles with each of the faiths/races having their own sections.

A witch doctor styled room for trolls, cathedral styled hall for humans and dwarves, maybe tauren would be on the roof or something to be closer to the sun, naaru themed section for draenei etc.

>imblying night elves would ever allow lesser races, especially smelly tauren to bring their heathen faiths into a temple of elune :DD

We aren't really given much insight into the workings of the conclave could easily just be desperation of the burning legion invasion making them willing to work together, same way the Blood Knights, Sunwalkers, Hand of Argus and Argent Crusade band together to reform the Order of the Silver Hand.

The soul of the high priest legendary also describes the conclave as "the masters of the Light and embracers of the Void - for light cannot exist without darkness, and darkness without light." so could have recruited more esoteric/reformist sects of the various faiths who won't kill eachother for using the light and shadow.

it should have been presented as 3-4 factions working together rather than just a big unified bunch of priests. the different races flavour were always one of the cool things about priests, that's why they had racial spells. play up all the weird religions and how some get along and some really don't.

This makes me want to go full unholy again. Should I abandon the light again?

>Blood Knights, Sunwalkers, Hand of Argus and Argent Crusade band together to reform the Order of the Silver Hand

Which is still a fucking retarded copout.They have nothing in same! Different cultures, different organizations, even different sources of power. I can get armies and factions grudgingly getting deployed together but priest? Fuck no. Just imagine how deeply ingrained culturally and personally into a draenei anchorite or a night elf priestess of Elune must be. Remember that old class thing "priests are spiritual leaders of their people etc." They are the absolute focal points of the values, beliefs, rules and culture of a race. Just mashing them up to be minor NPCs together cheapens all those shit.

Also sunwalkers are not even paladins. They are a walking talking le holy cow :DDD joke taken too far and an aberrant concent further ruining the game. And sun druids.

Shadow priests are the closest thing to psionics in Warcraft, I'm pretty sure.

>so focused on destroying Azeroth
>raids it just to get some kool-aid once and then half-asses it a couple of times after 20,000+ years
Truly, fierce dedication from the leader of the Burning Legion.

Cause that wordsoul thing is yet another retcon.

Regular priests can use psionics all right.

Kel'thuzad dropping everything and aligning himself with the forces of good just so he can pull one of those, "I'm helping you now so I'll still have something to conqure when we're done here/Nobody is allowed to destroy the world but me!" would be pretty VIOLENTLY cool.

But I doubt blizzard would do something like that.
They're about as bad as Toriyama is with forgetting characters and piecing together their old, more interesting plot points and just improvising as they go along.

100% this, though I will say that there was some cool shit up through Wrath. Signs of the end, but still some neat shit. Scampering around Outland and the ethereals and everything beyond the Dark Portal getting some screen-time again. Even though it was massively axed, Wrath's interpretation of Northrend was written alongside early development. After Wrath, the game and its setting is dead to me, though.

Oddly enough you can find the odd Pandaren priest within Netherlight as well even though their race worships the august celestials and has no cultural conception of the Light (and by extension presumably the shadow which if they encountered would probably associate the shadow priests with the Sha)

You expected a dindu to make wise and rational choices?

Making terrible choices is one of the only things that defines Illidan. The other is trying tirelessly to fuck Tyrande, although he's supposedly over her by now.

Why is KT so cool?

>Oddly enough

Inconsistent writing is not that odd anymore.

You are the reason these games are now bland, uninspired and easy-as-piss capeshit. Neck yourself.

No little WoWautist. ANYONE who has at any point supported WoW is the problem. Just because your autismal job simulator was more focused on grinding before doesn't mean it was better.

MMOs were a mistake

Except RuneScape quests. Those were sick.

>Shove a bunch of retard DKs into saronite drop pods
>????
>OLD GOD BLOOD RAIN WITH ZOMBIES

IDK what class campaign you were playing Pally's got BTFO'd

> Broken shore happens and Tirion is murdered
> Through the class campaign you find out Turalyon got Rekt'd by the legion
>Naaru hate you for killing Illidan and considers the opportunity to help him "your" chance at redemption
> And to rub salt in the wound, 5 DK's literally walk into Light Hope Chapel and fuck up all the paladins there including Maxwell and Liadrin in an attempt to raise Tirion, only to be stopped by the light itself
>After the beat down at Light's hope the Highlord goes to Acherus to get the Ashbringer corrupted

>>Naaru hate you for killing Illidan and considers the opportunity to help him "your" chance at redemption

I hate this one especially since it was a naaru who sends you on the quest to kill him in the first place back in bc.

Only thing I want now is:

Dynamic entry saronite pods
Kel'thuzad 2.0: The king is dead, praise the king! (with undead kitty)

Except that's not how any of it goes.

>Tirion remains alive and gives you Ashbringer and tells you that you are the greatest paladin ever before dying to break you free from a Dreadlord and then sticks around to speak to you through Ashbringer. So even in death, his pally prowess still gets sucked off.
>Xe'ra treats you like anyone who isn't a DH, so that point is moot.
>DKs do evil shit, but you don't see any of this if you play a pally so again, moot point because the pally campaign still sucks you off.
>last bit doesn't actually happen in the paladin campaign.
>Turalyon "rekt" by the Legion except that the Army of Light shows up anywhere so you can bail out priests and be told about how the power of the Light is still the greatest ever.

Lets not forget that the paladin class hall is the only one with two random shmucks dedicated to talking about how great you are everytime you walk by.

Half the shit you mentioned doesn't even come up in the paladin campaign at all and the other stuff is still played at an angle to make it seem like you're the last and best hope of all time. Even if we count Xe'ra(who is class-encompassing) you're still being told that DA LITE is still this uber powerful force.

Tirion was given a bigger send off than the fucking Horde warchief.

Moreover, just for kicks.

>Pally order hall from the outside looks like this humble little chapel
>actually has a giant batcave underneath it with all these massive statues and edifaces glorifying the class
>paladins all just sit around talking about how great they are

Basically, the NEET class.

>Tirion gets rekt'd by Krosus only to surviving by the skin of his teeth and is then Killed by a dreadlord
>Turalyon admits that the army of light can't beat the legion
>and the fact that a Naaru hates Paladins the one class that truly serves them is hilarious (Most priests do too but shadow priests make up to much of the population to say that they all do)

He wanted to shatter northrend not just melt its ice.

>Tirion tanks a fucking raid boss and then saves the player from a Dreadlord, talking about how great they are.

That's how it actually goes. Moreover, Tirion's death is something everyone gets to see and is made out to be a big deal.

And yet the Army of Light still shows up to save the paladins in a big and glorious "WE'RE AWESOME AND POWERFUL" moment. You're acting like the brief moments of the campaign saying that the situation is shit is more than the entire rest of the campaign talking about how powerful you the player are and how awesome the paladin class is.

>Priest playerbase equals lore population.

Now you're just reaching.

Make Argus Great Again.

Mages, Warlocks and Death Knights are the only ones getting shit done.

The main reason WoW's lore is such a clusterfuck to begin with is because they retcon shit so often.

Why do Naaru hate paladins now?

They don't.

The other poster is being dense.

One Naaru shows up to tell you that killing Illidan was a bad thing, she does this for EVERY class in the game, save Demon Hunter. There is nothing special about it happening to a paladin player.

Oh, except for the part where only paladins get to keep her vessel in their order hall, so they actually get more out of the chain than any other class.

So Maiev was right then?

was it ever in doubt?

Do shamans get anything out of the deal? They became my favorite class as time went on, and I love the idea behind them: striking deals with the elements and spirits so that they may send their power coursing through you.

How strong are shamans in the grand scheme of things, anyway?

Lore wise it generally goes
Warlock
Paladin = Death Knight = Demon Hunter
Mage
Powergap
Shaman = Priest
Druid
Hunter
Powergap
Rogue = Monk
Warrior

It should be noted that individuals can be much stronger than their class would suggest, take Broxigar for example, he is a warrior yet also the most powerful mortal

she likes demon hunters, tho

I feel like warlock would be on the same level as mage, Considering that the alliance needed to make a whole new class to combat the new horde Death knights, yet not there warlocks.