3rd time DM-ing a game and I keep running into an issue of silence during our online games. Players genuinely don't have any idea where they're going and lack direction.
How do I get them back on track without seeming like a railroading piece of shit?
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>and lack direction.
That's kinda your fault, user. Give them direction.
Did you also not talk to them abo ut the game before you started? Or is it "I want to run a game" and they agreed, you all made characters, and now you're here?
Some players are more quiet and passive than others. Trying to make a passive player into a different sort of player is usually ends in frustration and failure. But typically even if you have one or two, someone else will take charge anyway. If you feel passivity isn't the crux of the issue, then you have two more serious problems.
Your players don't know what to do because
A) you didn't explain it well, didn't give the campaign some sort of premise or theme. If the goal of the game is heroic adventurers save the world, then that should permeate the setting, and the sort of situation the players find themselves in even if it's railroaded to hell and back. Obviously they're responding to some sort of threat. Reactive playing is by default more limited than proactive, but that's not a bad thing as long as you don't decide what happens along the way and don't take away player agency.
If the goal of the game is novice adventurers in a wild borderland, where they explore and tame it for settlement, then that should permeate the setting, even if the sandbox requires that it doesn't really matter which way they go or which part of the wilderness they explore because you make up encounters and scenarios on the fly.
B) your players are lazy pieces of shit who haven't created proper characters with proper motivations who are willing to find their own action and adventure even if it isn't handed to them on a platter
Now, all is not lost. Talk to your players and find out what sort of game they want to play in, and what sort of game you want to run, and do something that mostly makes everyone happy. If the situation is you are stuck with too many passive players, then you can always make them work in some sort of military chain of command where they regularly receive orders from on high and their only choices are how to carry those out.
Also, this might help elucidate.
youtube.com
I understand that, I just don't know how to give direction without it seeming like I'm telling them exactly what to do
You are going to have to give your players a direction. If they miss it, you are going to have to make it more and more obvious until they find a direction. Maybe the direction you're prodding them into, maybe some other direction. Either works.
Don't worry about telling them what they do until they complain. Then, if they do, tell them the truth. You are only telling them what to do because that's the only way to get them to do something. That you wouldn't be telling them what to do if they could pick something to do on their own.
I really appreciate the info and video. The problem for me is choices, I think. If I give too many choices, they're overwhelmed. If I give too few, they're on the railroad.
What's a good way to balance this?
Do they complain about being on a railroad? If they don't complain, no problem.
Give them a magical girl mascot who gives them missions!
It's ok if your players take time to discuss things because there are a lot of options.
That said, an important part of the game is pacing. If there are big moments of silence where you're waiting for them to do something, then simply pick up the pace. You are the GM you control all time.
The evening passes uneventfully and it's now morning. What do you do?
It's now noon, and your stomachs are grumbling.
Assuming your players have some sense, eventually they'll realize they have to make decisions and do things. They'll realize that certain things are time sensitive and won't wait while they sit idly by.
Yeah,the problem is they'll be before an obstacle like needing to cross a raging river. There's multiple different options here they could use, but they seem to be confused when presented that even though they know their goal is on the other side. Meanwhile I'm like:
The Druid could slow down the water or convince animals to let them ride through the waters on them
The ridiculously strong barbarian could chop and drag a tree over with the groups help to pass.
They could attempt to make a makeshift log boat by putting a notch into a large log
They could investigate further down to see if there's a closer point they could jump over
But when presented with this they kinda pause and act like they're waiting for further instructions. Should I say things like "This river will surely make it harder to reach your destination" so they put it together or what? I feel this is my fault but am at a loss
Also, oddly enough, I tried the time passing thing with them and they were mad they lost time even though there was 12 seconds of silence and confusion
"Railroading" isn't an inherently bad thing, some groups need to have clear goals set for them.
Honestly, it sounds like you're playing with the most passive of players, none of whom wants to take charge and make a decision because they're afraid they'll make a mistake and be blamed or something.
If I were you, I'd either remind them there's no wrong answer, just play your character, or far more likely, I'd probably be making subtly fun of them at this point.
Minutes pass as the roaring sound of the river drowns out any attempts upon reflection and thought. You all feel the gentle spray of the water from the raging waters and that it's much cooler here next to the river. The scenery is lovely, but you realize that standing around and waiting, you are no closer to your goal.
If they kept standing about, I'd continue
The river seems to taunt you, an obstacle that's clearly impossible to deal with. The other side, quite unreachable. Will this be the ignoble end to this journey, our fair adventurers defeated by some water? Tune in next time, to dragon ball gee I sure hope they don't spend 22 minutes of the episode just standing around charging their powers.
He could also frame the scenario by asking "what your character would do in a situation like this?" It helps them get out a mindset of playing themselves and being afraid of screwing up in front of others.
Tell the real rp guy (you know who I mean) that he's the meta leader of the party now.
Tell him this in private.
Also say that when he "leads" the party out of clues etc he will be rewarded. (Minor rewards like NPC reactions and flow of story)
>I'd probably be making subtly fun of them at this point.
kek
same
Could be that the game you're running isn't properly engaging your players because you're a novice, or simply because tastes don't always match up (which is nobodys fault). Talk a bit about game expectations.
When everyone is on the same page about what they want and what they expect, things will go smoother.
How do you get passive players to be less passive?
Me and one other dude are the only non-passive players and we usually end up making all the decisions and the others are basically there for combat and nothing else
When one of us is the DM, the other usually ends up becoming the "main character" because nobody else does anything
You can't. Look at how those people act in conversation and what they talk about. Look at their lives. Leadership and decisive action are inherited.
>Leadership and decisive action are inherited.
You are wrong, sir. I used to be the epitome of passive beta bitch, and I am usually the one in charge now.
That's a learned trait
You need to start a game with giving them direction. You need to give them a few things to do. That will allow them to work out what their characters want and introduce them to some of the levers from which they can influence the world and their story with.
For example, if you just describe a town and ask them 'what do' they'll be paralyzed with choice. Instead, you'd either give them a clear introductory objective (e.g. a mysterious letter they all recieved telling them to go somewhere) or you would describe a few interesting happenings that are clearly something that a PC could interact with. For example, maybe they see a group of criminals operating with practiced ease in the area whilst a town crier shouts about a corrupt lord being wanted for treason and there's a noticeboard with a notice for a mercenary group looking for temporary workers to help out.
And yet it can't be taught to any meaningful degree. What I mean is that no amount of goading and tony robbins seminars will change someone who doesn't already have the potential for those traits. They aren't passive beta bitches, they're wallpaper. They aren't held back by anxiety or doubt, they just have nothing to offer. Thoughts don't occur to them, critical thinking is alien. You can improve these skills through training, but instilling the trait involves some confluence of genetics and upbringing.
Once Dm'd for 3 passive players and a friend that always took charge and assumed the leadership role. Early on, he got knocked out and poisoned from an encounter with a spider so obviously he couldn't give the party any instructions on what to do. So the rest of the part literally spent 2 hours in silence trying to decide which way to go down the road.