/btg/ Battletech General!

Slow day in /btg/...

It's summer and all the kidlets are out playing their Cowwa Dooty and junk I guess.

Anyone doing any games this weekend?

Nah, my BT guys are out of town. Been doing some MWO though, which has been... fun? I guess? Lots of little niggles but sometimes it's really a good time, so it kinda balances out.

I bought the starter set from a friend who didn't want it for $90 CAD. Feels good man.

most of us do have work and all

We kinda ran off Laughably Bad Fanfic user last night.

Though the idea of the Ice Hellions attempting their own fuckup version of Wolf's Dragoons sounded entertaining as hell.

I heard they did a big skill tree or something overhaul a few weeks ago. How's that working out?

Eh. It's okay. It's nice not having to buy three chassis now to fully master a mech, but most of the bonuses are strictly worse than the old days. On the upside you can make mechs with armor/structure quirks ridiculously tanky, and troll the enemy team hard when you don't pop like you should.

Why should I Jade Falcon?

I like the bird. Why should I play the Clan?

From the thumbnail, I though she had freakishly huge bicep at first.

As the user you responded to, I have no idea, skills are pretty expensive in terms of XP and you don't get XP that fast, so I haven't touched the skill tree yet. What says seems to be accurate though, as gathered from watching older vids about MWO and the like.

If you want to attack the Republic of the Sphere, sure.

There are two problems with that though. The Bears are bestest buds forever with the RotS and everyone knows about the Wall and its limited range any way.

"But the Wall makes it obsolete" is a dumbass argument from start to finish.

I see. Feels grindy.

I keep seeing screen caps from guys playing it that you get a certain amount of C-Bills and XP for playing, but if you pay something with real money you get a massive bonus to both. Is that right?

Because you like the birb. The Clans are basically just variations on a theme, except for oddballs like the Hells Horses or Goliath Scorpions what with their vees and Seekers.

There's not all that much to set them apart from one another.

Basically, if you buy Premium Time (only purchasable with Mech Credits [MC] which are real money) you get a C-Bills and XP boost after every match. You can play the game for free, but it's a lot grindier. You can buy most mechs and all gear with C-Bills though, so you don't technically need to spend MC on the game (though I've yet to figure out how to get Mech Bays without spending MC, which limits the number of mechs you can have).

Frankly, Premium Time is just about the only thing I'm considering spending real money on with MWO, just to make the grind a little faster so I can get more mechs at some point. The Annihilator is coming soon and I'd like to be in on that, because fuck yeah Annihilators.

You can get a few bays from doing events. There's a free beemer+bay that will be available next week as part of the summer event.

They're the dracs of the clans, A-grade villains and proud of it. They don't pretend to be anything else like the bears or the wolves. And not B-grade villains like the Jags or Ghetto homeworlders with ten pages of pagespace dedicated to them before the Wars of Reaving cleaned house. Some competent fun people and some total tards depending on the era.

youtube.com/watch?v=rEf7r314_cQ

Oh? Further info on this event thing?

>The Bears are bestest buds forever with the RotS

Not him but they literally sent Magnusson to VSD's funeral in 3135 to gauge how bad of trouble the RotS was in to decide if they should break ranks and invade like everyone else. Then they took a chunk of Prefecture I in 3136 and turned it into Bear Australia where they ship all the people who start Rasalhaguing too hard in old Rasalhague. And by 3145, they're all the way up against the wall.

Also MC. That's a fairly common thing. You can save your free MC and buy bays when they are on sale.

mwomercs.com/news/2017/06/1846-summer-blast-rheroes-leaderboard-smoking-deals

mwomercs.com/news/2017/06/1846-summer-blast-rheroes-leaderboard-smoking-deals

Huh. Thanks for the heads-up. Is this a common MWO thing, these deals/sales/whatever? Just started playing on Tuesday, not really clear about this sorta thing yet.

Yeah, they have stepped up the frequency too. Usually, events last for1-2 weeks, and you can expect them every 2 months or so.

They are holding the former RotS territory as a protectorate for the RotS and want to hand it back to them.

And their hero Stone is back now too.

How are they villains?

Wasn't that the thing where they sent the most Bear-hating galaxy they had to Vega and then they became fanatically pro-Bear?

Well, they do kind of keep invading the Lyrans, y'know?

>SLDFurries
>not villains

>LaughingLords.hpg

>They are holding the former RotS territory as a protectorate for the RotS

The Dominion officially absorbed the Vega protectorate in 3137. They ain't giving back shit.

Yes, by hiring local Vegans as troops. Fucking bears. That's as bad as the shit going down in Wolf Empire territory along the old Marik/Lyran border where those people are the most fanatic to their state yet are signing up as Wolf militia in droves. The old Border Protectorate boys would be rolling in their graves that it wasn't Cavenaugh or Skye that came calling, but rather the clanners.

Omega Galaxy, yes.

Also known as Pointless Galaxy since their whole schtick is not using Zell against the IS, but the Bears officially cancelled the use of Zell against the IS like a year into the Invasion.

Again, they're still holding it for the Republic. The second Stone or the RotS asks for it back they'll hand it over. It just hasn't happened due to plotline stasis.

Question, guys.
I usually play MWO and I'm curious how one of my favorites would fare on the table. Since I can't get MegaMekLab to work as I want, I'll just give you the skinny:

>Stormcrow
>Maxed armor
>2 cERPPCs split between LT and RT, 6 cERSL split between LA and RA
>8 extra DHS, 2 stuck with each weapon emplacement (18 DHS total)

The idea was to rely on the PPCs for long range and use the lasers for cuddling distance work where torso-mounted weapons don't track well.

You're oversunk unless you add an ERPPC to close quarters fire, but since there's no weapon tracking, and you'd actually prefer the ER PPCs in the limbs for wider arcs, it's okay.

I'm no expert but you're talking about a fast decently armored medium weight Thug or Warhammer. I'd use it. Two chances to head chop at long range. Yeah, I like it. At closer range you'd have the chance to exploit holes you made with that ERSL shotgun.

If it's oversunk, could the removal ov eccess DHS suffice to load a TC?

>Again, they're still holding it for the Republic.
I could believe this if they hadn't changed at all since like 3130, but we both know that's not the case. The MWDA expansion Domination alone was about them not being passive like that.

They get zero mention after 3137 in the novels, and the few 3145+ DA books don't say much except they're using Vega as a dumping ground for malcontents and that they're using the old Combine Prigione super prison.

And if muh ideals girl Janella Lakewood is skeptical of them, then that's pretty telling.
>With the withdrawal of the Republic behind the Fortress walls and the resumption of fighting by the Successor States, the Clans have become more restless as well. The Dominion has snapped up its Vega Prefecture

In fact, in the late-DA material, you can see them pulling a Rasalhague again and again on smaller scales with sending "peacekeeping" and "garrison" forces to Republic and Lyran worlds then annexing them, and the locals sucking Bear dick so hard that they're even requesting getting folded into the Dominion.

Honestly, the Vega Protectorate was just another splinter like the Dragon's Fury, Swordsworn, Steel Wolves, Senator Alliance and the rest. They were just from outside the republic instead of inside. And like all the other splinters, they've been consciously mopped up.

You're counting on the Bears all not changing a lick, and I don't agree. But then I wouldn't figure Stone could just waltz into the Chamber of Paladins and reproclaim himself Exarch once Tucker woke him up either and people would just accept it. And he did. If I was Levin and knew what he knew, I think I would have kicked his geriatric ass right there in front of god and everyone.

ER Small Laser spam doesn't work so well in BT, and you can't add armour to an OmniMech either.

This being said, 2 ER PPCs, 6 ER Medium Lasers, and 5 DHS (or 5 ER Mediums and 6 DHS) would work pretty well.

Well you don't have the tonnage for 8 extra DHS regardless, but you want at least 16 DHS (30 for the ER PPCs and 2 for running), which leaves you a ton left. You need 4 for a TC.

>you can't add armour to an OmniMech either
Modular armor bro.

Better to have the PPC's in the arms for better arcs.

>Modular armor bro.

Enjoy slowing down your 6/9 Omni, I guess.

I think you can get away with just 15 in this situation, you can drop one PPC every three or four turns and it won't be too much of an issue.

16 DHS and then five tons of other weapons is what I'd go for too though.

>PPCs in the arms
I wouldn't mind, but as I mentioned, it's a port from my MWO Stormcrow. Installing PPCs or AC/Gauss in the arms throws out the lower arm actuator there, negating the firing arc advantage.
Not to mention that they get shot off easily under the pinpoint skills, leaving the 'crow toothless.

that's true, but I would argue that keeping your speed up is more important on a clan mech.

Losing the hands means you can flip your arms into your rear arc, giving you more to shoot at. MWO =/= the TT.

>Not to mention that they get shot off easily under the pinpoint skills, leaving the 'crow toothless.
Armless but not harmless.

>Armless but not harmless
If I DID put all weapons in there, yeah, it would be both pretty damn fast in MWO.

>Losing the hands means you can flip your arms into your rear arc
Only the hands? I never pack those anyway because they look like misplaced dildos. Or do I have to get rid of the lower arm actuators too?

ERPPCs should be in the arms for tabletop, and you'll want to swap out the ERSmalls for ERMeds.

It can be a lot harder to close range in tabletop.

Well adding a PPC to an Omni's arm means you lose the LA and Hand actuators, so yes the LA too. You;re not gonna be punching anyway.

You drop a half ton for 80% of the damage and 50% of the range, and almost 30% of the heat.

None of which matters if you can't get into 6 hexes of range. I prefer not to get within Medium or Close Range of UAC20s, thank you very much.

Er smalls top out at 6 hexes, er mediums at 15. That's closer to 40% of range.

Does the TT have rules about what equipment can go into which spot on any given chassis? Or is it "mix and match as you like?"

There's a difference between what one can do as an author and the LD's bestest buddy (the latter statement), and the "kneecapped" alleged LD (the former). He's also responsible for some >really< good stuff, but he consistently wanks for the burrs. Plus you can tell when he starts to get bored: compare the quality of the writing in the first third of Wars of Reaving and the last.

Took one of my fingertips half-off with an angle grinder last week and I've got a night-shifter sleeping in my game room. So I've mostly been down at the coffee shop sorting and re-scribing all my old D&D/LotFP/BESM/Mekton notes and scraps into full pages and thence to binders. Or working on translating that copy of Gundam Senki I got handed last month.

>Why should I Jade Falcon?
>I like the bird. Why should I play the Clan?
Do you like being an utter prick and blaming >everyone< else for it? Is butthurt your favorite emotion to roleplay? Do you like being a mustache-twirling utter assfuck? Are you ready to accept the word of our Lords and Saviors, Disco Lightshow and Loki? If so, the Cockfalcons are your clan and then some.

>How are they villains?
They were in the cartoons, soo..
Seriously, though, the Falcons are the embittered evil twin of the Wolves. Endlessly convinced of their own superiority and just blind enough to their own weaknesses (hubris, cruelty, and inflexibility mostly) that it's fun to play without >requiring< you to be an utter cock-hole at the table. Plus you get your choice of either stupidly awesome or just cartoonishly stupid in both the paint schemes and the 'Mechs you get. They also get a lot of backrground and fluff, unlike a lot of the other groups in the clans.

As an example. Scientists starting shit? Poisoning the Bloodhouses? Falcons killed them ALL with fire and then Trialed for new ones from the Horses and Wolves. Whom they then vetted and used to train up a new (even more fanatical/insane) sci-caste.

The only rules I recall are that Heavy Gauss have to go in the torso of a 'mech or body of a vee.

Other than that, if you have the critspace and tonnage, it's fair game.

>Does the TT have rules about what equipment can go into which spot on any given chassis? Or is it "mix and match as you like?"
aside from basic limitations based on the number of critical slots in given locations and like two weapons specifically torso only, but that's literally it.
like I could build an atlas with an AC/2 in each leg or a Marauder with arm MRMs and torso LLs if I wanted to

In that case, let's modify the build a bit, shall we?
>Stormcrow
>2 cERPPCs split between LA and RA, 5 cERML split between CT, LT and RT (I like to keep similar weapons in the same general area, a matter of taste)
>6 extra DHS, 2 stuck with each weapon emplacement (16 DHS total)

And now I have to find the time and ways to get MegaMek and that machine into it.

MegamekLab is in the OP, only takes a few seconds to download. You can edit the .mtl files in it and then just copy and paste to MegaMek's folders.

>Does the TT have rules about what equipment can go into which spot on any given chassis? Or is it "mix and match as you like?"
Not as part of the core rules (which is why MechWarrior 3 didn't have any). Well, not for Non-Omnis. There's a very strong cultural restraint among players, however, and generally you want to keep a design similar to the base chassis with easily-articulated changes.

Omnis have a large quantity of fixed equipment, so violating the slots or changing things like engines and chassis type are big no-nos.

For non-Omnis, the rules for "refit classes" are in Strategic Operations; basically, changing out weapons is something a good 'tech and a capable team can do in a mobile gantry or an MFB. Anything that seriously affects the 'Mech's balance or combat electronics (armor distribution, gyro changes, sink-swaps, sensors, tarcomps) takes more time and a dedicated repair depot or high-end Dropship's reprogramming/test facilities. Changing out the chassis and engine is a factory-level fix and requires a shitload of people essentially rebuilding it from scratch.

Engine swaps were easier in some rules iterations, and the video games have always been enamored of letting people choose their own speed, so there's a bit of cultural wiggle room there. In particular, most groups ignore the (new and silly) requirement that a replacement engine be designed for a unit with the same tonnage, rather than just basing it on Rating (which has been the fluff since literally day one). Which makes doing things listed in the fiction, like stealing a heavy tank's Mr. Fusion for your cored-out junker Medium, technically impossible for mechanics who can still somehow turn out hand-made gyroes for a Clint using Periphery machine shops.

>Plus you can tell when he starts to get bored: compare the quality of the writing in the first third of Wars of Reaving and the last.

I'm almost positive that would be due to the rush to get the book out the door, rather than boredom. I remember him blogging that it was written in an enormous hurry, after a bunch of earlier work was thrown out on it. Frankly I'm surprised it turned out as well as it did.

The blasphemy of hardpoints is something that has only shown up in Mechwarrior 4 and Mechwarrior online in an attempt to deprioritize boating in the name of game balance.

this works about as well as as submersible made of paper mache.

As others have said, there's a cultural encouragement to keep to the general spirit of a design, but there aren't really technical limitations on mounting weapons beyond "do you have the crits" and "do you have the tonnage"

OmniMechs in particular are meant to be kitted out as the operator sees fit. Their armor, structure and reactor are immutable (though you can alter speed and durability with superchargers and modular armor) but weapons and electronics can be freely interchanged.

MWO really fucks omnis hard. in the TT, omnis are special because you can reconfigure one in a matter of minutes to hours, whereas the sort of customization that no one thinks twice about in the video games would take weeks to years, doing it by hand.

Man, Wolf's ending still gives me chills. Of course, I'm a bleeding-heart Warden Wolf fan, so my opinion's worth jack

I think whats most ironic is that the wolves were fucking unstoppable, they took both their objectives at Tukayyid, it was the other clans who let them down.

That was the point. Ulric trolled the fuck out of the other Invaders by nudging them to make retarded bids and go into combat with poor supplies and intelligence. There's a Smoke Jaguar Elemental who became the first casualty of the battle because he cut his JJ on the drop to be the first to land. Ulric was literally too good for the rest of the Clans, so they forced the Wolves into a Trial over it.

Years might be overblowing it.
But months wouldn't be straying far from the truth, especially with Type-F customization. Maybe if it's one guy without an astech team...

Of course, at that point, you're nearly building a mech from scratch.

>In particular, most groups ignore the (new and silly) requirement that a replacement engine be designed for a unit with the same tonnage, rather than just basing it on Rating (which has been the fluff since literally day one).

DESU I thought it this was simply a strange megamek quirk. I haven't ever looked in-depth at the customization/salvage/refit rules for engines because I've never had a group that stuck around for any long-term Battletech campaigns.

I've found the refit system to be unrealistic given that only a single mechtech can work on a refit at once. There is no way to assign two techs to the same refit so that it takes half the time, or even more. There would be diminishing returns obviously but the rules already allow you to strip an assault mech down to it's bones and put everything back on in less than 24 hours if you have the manpower to throw at the problem.

Personally, I often wind up using excess tonnage for shit like ECM or C3 slave (on IS mechs). A little extra utility doesn't hurt, except in the pocketbook. I suppose a few SLs would make more sense, but for some reason I like having advanced electronics on EVERYTHING.

Disco Lightshow? Also, Malvina Hazen must die.

Where was that new rule introduced, and who the fuck thought that was a good idea?

Looks like hes at it again...

community.battletechgame.com/forums/threads/8772/comments/161626

You get a bonus for having, or a penalty for not having, Assistant Technicians, right?

Fuck him. He didn't even fix the bigger problems, just changed the 'mech from a Bushie to a Jenner. I'm not wasting my time reading the whole thing.

The rule meaning that you can't take a 300 engine out of a 50 ton Mech and put it into your Marauder? It was TECHNICALLY true going back to the BattleTech Compendium or thereabouts; the problem is that the C-bill cost equation for an engine includes the tonnage of the unit. So the engine of a 50 ton, 6/9 unit costs a significantly different amount than the engine of a 75 ton, 4/6 unit.

What changed was that, circa TechManual, Herb decided that the cost differential actually meant that the engines were competely different beasts and weren't interchangeable the way they previously were. It was part of a broader push by the company in general to make "munchkin" modifications and customizations more difficult for players to pull off in campaign play. In this case, it was a deliberate choice to keep players from "unfairly" saving money by replacing a 3.5 million CB engine with a 2.5 million CB engine that happens to have the same rating.

And yes, it flies in the face of a HUGE quanitity of previous fluff. That never seems to stop CGL, though. See also: 3039, TRO, the entirety of.

No bonus for having a full support crew, but penalties for their absence. Additional technical teams provide a bonus, at least to maintenance and repair. I assumed the same applies to refits, but not sure.

ikr? He didn't even fix all those spelling errors.

Thanks.
I get trying to cut down on munchkinry, but doing it that way invalidates so much existing fluff, it's just silly. Has stuff been written about 'mechs being designed to use up surplus engines since that change was made?

I find it a bit strange granted the refit rules and era mods put into place in Strategic Ops which make engine refits hugely time-consuming and risky, especially when the engine is a special type like an XL.

...but then again, Techmanual did predate Strat Ops by a number of years.

I'd have to read the rulebook again to be sure, but there's definitely no way to use more than one mechtech in mekHQ. So any comprehensive refits will take weeks months and you start all over again if you fail the skill check at the end.

I guess it's sorta justified in that each tech is actually a team of 7 people working on the same vehicle and you have finite limits in terms of heavy lifting equipment and floor space to work with. Having 70 people instead of 7 wouldn't help you change an elbow actuator out any faster. But when doing a refit the physical labour is the easy part and a problem you can just solve by throwing more manpower at it. The hard part is plugging all the new equipment together and making everything cooperates with the mechs "firmware".

IMO the two processes should be separated. Swapping out parts should be just like any other repair task, only more complex and time consuming because you have to create new mounts and run new wires etc. Once all of that is complete then you would only need a single tech team to break in the new parts and get the mech working properly. If that skill roll fails then you would have to try again with the second check taking longer than the first. Or even take out parts and reinstall them depending on how badly you bungle the roll. You would only need to start the process again from scratch if you really screwed the pooch.

Dude who has been tagging the booru here::

I'm gonna be busy for a while and I don't know when I'll get back to tagging regularly again, probably several weeks. So knock yourselves out on lending a hand, every little bit helps.

Also; who here really uses the thunderbolt missiles. I like them but does anyone else, really?

The Lyrans keep invading their neighbors.

That just means they're both villains.

I've never actually used thunderbolts. What are some designs that feature them that I could try out?

>Also; who here really uses the thunderbolt missiles. I like them but does anyone else, really?
Indirect fire thunderbolt 20 is hard to dislike.

problem is AMS will wreck your shit.

honestly, why use TB20 when you can use Arrow IV instead?

is there a way to turn this off in MekHQ?

Because asked, I took some snapshots of my Nova. Not sure what he was looking for since this wasn't my best.

Haven't bothered cropping images.

2/6

3/6

4/6

5/6
Attempted low-angle

the AV1-OI avatar uses the TB15. its a nice little mech and having the indirect fire capabilities of an LRM with concentrated "streak"-like damage is what sells me.

B-but, saved tonnage...

There is the DCMS-designed, AFFS-Stolen Orochi that you can try from TRO 3085... that's about when they started cropping up. Surprisingly almost all in vehicles.

There's also a refit of the Thunder that replaced the AC20 arm for a Thunderbolt 20, if you want to try something that isn't all-or-nothing.

Heads up though, they're a bitch for megamek logistics. It's harder to find reloads for Thunderbolt 20s than most things, since I think AtB counts them as experimental and doesn't (Didn't) have mods for Dark-Age availabilities.

I turned off the limitations of what can be bought on a contract because they seemed designed for use with 3050s... maybe 3067 at most, but making everything but armor, hatchets, and machine gun ammo so rare that you can't rearm anything but APCs is a bit of a bitch.