RIP list builder wtf GW

>I-it's new GW guys!
Too bad that he didn't want to go through the process of actually doing things in court. He probably would have gotten off like Chapterhouse considering how frivolous this entire thing is.

This. At that point he's making money using GWs stuff and benign neglect is no longer possible.

Well, that's a simplification grossly in favor of corporations. Patreon is normally fine, but iirc he used it specifically for the game. He likely would have gotten away with it if the patreon was a generic 'I am making games' support me.

>Well, that's a simplification grossly in favor of corporations.
Welcome to the 21st century.

Didn't work on my browser, and he was dismissive when I told him about it. My first impulse is to say "Fuck him", but...

Man, what is GW doing? I thought that they were trying to turn their image around. This sort of thing is exactly the wrong thing for them to be doing. Those of you who have Facebook accounts ought to be flooding their page with complaints.

>This sort of thing is exactly the wrong thing for them to be doing.

Defending their IP when someone is clearly profiting from it? If he didnt have a Patreon or a way to gain money from it then it would've been ignored like the AoS fan made builder but he didnt, he started to gain money, however small, in order to support the builder which is a clear act of IP infringement.

This isnt a case of GW bullying some dude for no reason, its a dude who made a mistake and was told to stop it.

Don't worry user. They will release an official army builder app which will be quite the bargain at $20 per indice.

Why didn't they give him the chance to take down the Patreon instead of shitcanning the whole thing?

>Defending their IP when someone is clearly profiting from it?
Burning the trust they've been rebuilding the community by acting like a bunch of money-grubbing kikes rather than a bunch of guys who love the game they make.

The thing with IP laws, is that if they didn't defend their IP they could lose it later. Yes it looks bad for them to go after a "small" violation like this, but if they didn't then they would have potentially set a precedent that could be used by a recaster, reprinter, fan game, or similar down the road. It is a dick move, but it is a legally required dick move.

Then they should immediately issue a public apology to the community for it.

Why didn't they send the take down request earlier then? The list builder is nothing new. Why didn't they at least offer to let him take down any ads, patreon links, ect. rather than killing an immensely useful tool? They are clearly just clearing the field so they can sell us their own army builder to make money. Meanwhile free army builders for games like Malifaux, Kings of War, Flames of War, stay unmolested despite having options to donate to the creators.

>Why didn't they give him the chance to take down the Patreon instead of shitcanning the whole thing?
Main issue right here. So he made a thing, so he wasn't legally versed enough to know how to avoid issues with making a Patreon that was related to it
The thing he made was miles better than anything else out there. GW would only benefit from this list builder existing, it's not hurting them in the slightest.

It happened now because they have their own coming, which will probably not be free.

This. Honestly someone should have contacted him about making it official, or semi official, since they fucked up an didn't have a list builder at release.

Now it looks like more GW gimme money thuggery.

>wtf GW
You make it sound like you're surprised that, after announcing their own list building app in the making, GW made a move against what is now a direct competitor using their IP.

Hahahahaha

>Why didn't they send the take down request earlier then?
Probably because the creator wasn't profiting from the IP. There is a fuzzy area surrounding fan made content that infringes on IP. A company is unlikely to lose control of their IP simply because a fan makes a website devoted to said IP, even if they use official art and data.

>Why didn't they at least offer to let him take down any ads, patreon links, ect. rather than killing an immensely useful tool?
Because GW. And, as you said, they likely didn't want the competition when they finally release their own tool.

>They are clearly just clearing the field so they can sell us their own army builder to make money.
Without a doubt. I'm not defending the actions of GW, just trying to explain why they did this. What this dude did pretty much is all of the heavy lifting to show GW that there is a market for this sort of tool. What GW are doing now is saying "thanks we will take over from here, don't let the door hit you on the way out".

>GW hasn't changed. They just got a new thin coat of paint.
FTFY

He had a patreon.
He was getting paid to make a third party program using somebody else's IP without the owner's permission.
That's pretty fucking illegal. Pretty much chinaman illegal.
If it was nonprofit, he'd have a defence. But it wasn't, so he doesn't.

>Honestly someone should have contacted him about making it official, or semi official
Serious question, why would they do that?
It's pretty clear they are working on their own most likely non-free tool, what benefit would they have blessing a competing free tool.

It's bad PR, but it isn't going to effect sales, or even be remembered in 6 months.

Yeah now you'll get hundreds of walls of text with terrible formatting. You fat fast food on the brain sloppy double bitch.

>It's bad PR
That is the reason. If they were really serious about being "The New GW" that would have been all the reason they needed.

It's pretty telling that the facade of a new improved GW disappears as soon as it might possibly interfere with the bottom line.

Then why don't army makers for other games that solicit donations get taken down as well? You can find a patreon for the Crewfaux App for Malifaux, and it hasn't gotten a take down notice in the entire time it has been up.

>GW defends their IP because British copyright law demands you have to take legal action against those profiting from your IP otherwise you set a precedent that others can use against you and you could lose your IP
>now that GW told the guy to stop, all the Grognards that were pissy at GW and hating that they started being cool again and listening to the community will now bring this debacle up EVERYTIME and shitpost about how GW is still evil and horrible and shouldn't be a company

Lots of Fan Art artists have Patreon. It's a donation, not a purchase. This is just GW strongarming the community again, because they haven't changed. They're just pushing their marketting in a different direction for sales, and still stomping on you, the player.

But fan artists aren't using official art and assets tho and producing their own content

It hasn't been noticed, at least not publicly. Thread related happened because some idiot linked the army maker to the company's official facebook page, forcing GW to acknowledge it.

Oh yeah. Spots the Space Marine was clearly profiting from the Warhammer 40K IP.

That was kirby. Nobody is defending Kirby. Kirby was a retard, although losing that did force them to start latinising everything.

But staff members have mentioned the damn thing on the official Wyrd forums. The Flames of War army builder even had an official version made, while leaving the original version unmolested.

>Serious question, why would they do that?
It's an already made tool, that is easy to use and easy to access.

Rather than paying someone to develop their own app or tool, they can see the finished product and how well received it is by the community.

Supporting the creator both helps GW, their public image and the community by giving the players access to an easy army roster too. They didn't even have to do all that much, the guy clearing wasn't making any profit from it. He mentioned total donations were $24 or something. A pittance.

This is PR suicide for the "New" GW.
They can make it right, or they can try to push an app for army building that requires a monthly fee like they did for age of sigmar.
We will see their true colors soon.

>this is PR suicide

Except only retarded autists looking for a reason to hate GW will be the only ones who care, while everyone who has any sort of understanding of copyright knows full well why the list builder was shut down and that GW is in the right

GW fanboys will defend this, and anything else GW does, as they already are in this thread. In the end this action doesn't matter. I hope that everyone is prepared to bend over and pay for GW's version of War Room.

>GW is in the right
Legally.
From a pr standpoint it was a massive mistake while trying to restore your public image.

No one is questioning GW legal right to issue the takedown, they are questioning why it is being handled in this manner which only hurts GW and it's community in the end.

But it's not even a mistake from a PR standpoint and everyone can see that. He was literally getting money while using official GW art, assets, point values, etc etc. They've already redeemed themselves in the eyes of most people, and the only people who say otherwise are people just looking for reasons to hate GW

They handled it behind the scenes as they should, professionally. It was the creator that made a long written message being unprofessional as hell and trying to paint GW as a mean soulless corporation

Then why do other companies let fan made army builders with donation options stay up then? GW is entitled to do what they want, but don't say that they did this out of the goodness of their hearts. They just did this in order to make it easier to sell their own army builder in the future.

Not really. I was out at 6th, and close to coming back in 8th.

This has pushed me away again.

Other companies like Wyrd, actively encourage list builder sites and apps.

GW is doing the opposite, to push a paid app. There isn't any "No GW is clearly in the right" they're defying their player base and war gaming convention for the sake of profit.

BS is still a thing.

When the fuck did I say they did this out of the goodness of their hearts you retarded child? And even if that's the reason they shut it down, they are completely in their right to make their own app for profit, and sell it to people for convenience.

I disagree? There are still plenty of free list builders. This one, the dev was profiting from, which IMO is not on. War gaming convention is whatever, the majority of other wargaming companies don't have half the IP strength Warhammer 40k does, and they make less money from rules and the like. Plus, most people aren't making money from these.

I never said that you did. But I don't see why this wouldn't be a reason to hate them when they had the option not to do it (As other with other companies).

This.
And frankly, the smaller companies probably d ont have the dosh to fight every person doing that shit. They are probably just happy someone is doing it for them, because they cannot afford to make a professional one.

The most popular Malifaux army builder, Crew Faux, has a patreon. Yet Wyrd hasn't threatened litigation. Other army builders often have donation options as well. Profiting off of a list builder is hardly something unique.

To be honest, i dont know anyone who uses it, everyone i know uses Battlescribe, was it really that useful and popular ?

>was it really that useful and popular ?
It was the auto-tune of list building.

so, just because wyrd doesn't do it no one is allowed to do it ?

wow, thats kinda surprising because as i said before, i dont know anyone who uses it....

Still it is annoying for people who were used to using it

>making the list builder
fine
>having a patreon
fine
>linking the patreon from the list builder
retarded

GW unironically did nothing wrong. He was directly profiting off their assets.

I never said that. All I am pointing out is that GW has the option of not sending legal threats to kill a fan project, and other companies already are nice enough not to do so. GW is simply doing this for the sake of profit.

GW didn't even make a production about this and handled it perfectly. It was the list builders creator who made a big shit fest feel sorry for me parade.

Well the time to have their own app released was when 8th dropped and I still haven't even heard GW confirm that it's in the works.

Me neither, nonetheless it was the low-no effort option and then became the default when "everyone" did it.

>Wyrd hasn't
burger company

UK legal shit is kind of fucky, and GW's been burned quite badly by it in the past. They stopped taking chances because of it.

All we know is they sent an email to notify the creator of the DMCA, and he took his program down.

>It was the creator that made a long written message being unprofessional as hell
Explain to me how you would feel after having your project, one you made as a fan to support and help the hobby, was gutted. Being "unprofessional" isn't even noted, as he ensured that others knew why the service was taken down.

Unless you are talking about the other posting he made of an email received. Which was professional and shows you don't understand what your are trying to discuss.

It was literally the first result if you searched 40k army builder in google.

>He was directly profiting off their assets.
There is no argument about this, the issue is how it was taken down when no other builder came close to it's quality.

Then why are companies like Battlefront and Mantic A-OK with others making paid or donation ware listbuilders for their games then? Both are located in the UK last time I checked.

>when no other builder came close to it's quality.
What quality is that?
Pretty pictures, dedicated transports and detachments being done by hand up to the end?

wtf GW.

>Time to write a angry letter

it was easy to learn, but i agree, it wasnt high quality

This. Hopefully they will change their mind and reverse their legal department's decision. This is new GW after all.

>>GW defends their IP because British copyright law demands you have to take legal action against those profiting from your IP otherwise you set a precedent that others can use against you and you could lose your IP

and as always people will conveniently ignore this fact in order to continue feeling justified about stroking their hate boners

I dunno. But all of GW's cease and desist type actions are in the interest of not getting fucked down the line like they have in the past.

And with a pattern that consistent, listbuilder dude was treading on thin ice the second he opened a patreon for it.

Sounds more like they are just copyright bullies, as other British companies don't send take downs to list builders that accept donations. It is a good business decision I suppose, so I can't blame them for that.

No GW army builder is "High Quality"
The real question is how many hoops do you want to jump through to use a program and how many actually have a visual representation of your army with condensed stat-lines?
None right now thanks to old GW legal.

IP takedown request, no issues
Why the entire project needs to be axed when there is no good alternative and no available official version, there is the issue.

One damn guy made a better roster program in his spare time than all the others that are available. For an edition with wonky points values for army list creation. And his roster program was untouched forever while it existed under 7th edition.

>>GW defends their IP because British copyright law demands you have to take legal action against those profiting from your IP otherwise you set a precedent that others can use against you and you could lose your IP
Source?

Once bitten twice shy, man. That goes doubly for businesses.

I am betting that they plan on making an official list builder soon. I honestly would pay for a good one that is kept up to date and is easy to use. Bonus points if the Forgeworld armies and Horus Heresy armies are options. Last time I checked the one that just got taken down didn't have Renegades.

At this point they legally had to destroy it. Otherwise they risk losing the rights to their properties. He put him self into a situation where if they didn't do this, other companies could legally do what he did for money and they would lose the rights to all their properties. IP law is fucked.

This thread is a bunch of people who are thanking their master for taking their money and giving them nothing.

You deserve old GW.

That doesn't seem to be the case for other companies who have other people profiting off of army builders for their games. It is probably as said, they are just very cautious and don't care otherwise.

>Why the entire project needs to be axed when there is no good alternative and no available official version, there is the issue.
Once he made a patreon he under UK law stole GW IP, and if GW choose to not completely remove ALL of his work that references their work (ie all of it), then they open themselves up to lose their IP under uk law.

legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/48/contents
Spoonfeed yourself retard.

bullshit. this only applies to trademarks and is an international issue, not specifically british. copyright does not need protection.

that said, i have no problem with GW's decision. what I do have a problem with is not having a fully functional, affordable app at edition launch. THAT is the real scandal here.

>This only applies to Trademarks
>guy had trademarked art and assets all on his list builder

I don't see that in there. It just says that certain rights are held by the copyrighter, rather than there being an obligation to send legal threats. The real questions why they didn't do this earlier, as this list builder isn't anything new. Neither is the patreon.

It will almost certainly be barely usable shit with in-app purchases.

His list builder used their copyright art, their copyright names, and his patreon referenced it. I can't speak for every company in the UK, but if someone is selling their list builders with all that, IT DOES open them up to losing their copyright. Donations are grey area, and patreon is not donations, it is a membership business (taxable and such).

>His list builder used their copyright art,
That I can understand. The Malifaux and FoW list builder legitimately didn't use official art. The Malifaux especially has a bunch of custom drawn artwork rather than cribbing existing stuff. I would have liked it if GW gave them a chance to just clean off the art,but choosing the path of most profit probably made the most sense.

>The real questions why they didn't do this earlier, as this list builder isn't anything new.
Okay, you are a retard. Litigation can take months to years. Also people have been recently posting it on their official facebook page (another thing prompting action).

Bringing someone to court can take that long, but sending a C&D doesn't.

How many C&D have you sent?

Better tell that to the guys who do Dropzone Commander. When a fan made an army builder and used official images, they gave him money and slapped it on their main website for hosting.

Guess they lost their IP totally.

They bought it. Another way to fight copyright infringement.

And judging from the AoS warscroll builder, it being be complete fucking trash

So you can't actually cite anything specific that indicates UK companies lose control of their IP if they don't stop everyone who is profiting off it? At this point it seems like a Veeky Forumsism.

I'll play both sides of the argument. Yes he was definitely in the wrong by trying to make money off it since it is no longer fair use and GW does have every right to issue a takedown notice.

But what the fuck man, whatever gw releases will no doubt be a shiny turd whereas this guy had a damn near finished product. All they had to fucking say was this;

Dear x,

We unfortunately have to issue you a takedown request because of x reasons. However you have done good work on this and we would like to know if you are interested in a commission/collaboration?

Regards,
Geedubs

Yet he had a patreon for a long time during 7th edition and no one batted an eye

This list builder is too good to let die. Yes, the creator did some things wrong, but hot damn GW also applied the hammer far too hard.

This was a great roster maker. And it doesn't need to stay "was".

Strange, they contacted the guy making the AoS one and proposed to host it on their community website while collaborating with him for migration and updates.
It was probably because of the patreon, AoS guy didn't have one, iirc.