Primarchs

Objectively Lorgar.

>Chaos is truth
>Not C'tan

You sound like a gay.

Meant to reply to

Can we at least agree that Fulgrim is one of the better Primarchs, top 5 easily. He didn't do anything wrong and the only reason he fell to chaos was because he came across a chaos artifact which he had no comprehension of at the time.

No you're a gay

Curze is pretty crap, he was basically renegade even before the Heresy, cut off from the Crusade except for occasional resupply and terrorising already-loyal planets

Also he had terrible hair

Easily Fulgrim; anyone who would kill their own husbando (who also happens to be Best Primarch™) is scum of the earth.

Neck thyself, user.

>Ferrus Manus being cute

Absolutely rancid and a disgrace to Best Primarch.

You literally can not name one fault in pre-heresy Fulgrim

Preheresy I'd agree, or at least very high (I'd reckon him 6th, personally, though there's at least 1 in my top 5 I know a fair number of people would dispute), but during the heresy he did go mad and lose control of his legion for a while, try and kill Perturabo, and abandon the important bits of the Siege of Terra in favour of buttfucking civilians to death

How did I forget "and killed his bff, who Horus wanted him to get on-side"

Perturabo is merely autistic while Lorgar is also incompetent.

Curze.

If not Curze, then You can sorta see how Perturabo might've gone loyalist instead if he'd had a little more attention paid to him but I honestly don't have a clue wtf Mortarion's problem is.

His colour scheme

Exactly. That's what makes him the worst primarch:

I thought Mortarion went Chaos because his ship got trapped in the Warp or something.

But heresy happened.

Im still fairly new to 40k, been getting heavy into the horus heresy and loving it. It seems like all or the majority of the primarchs have a real world historical analogue i.e. guilliman is like alexander the great and khan is like ghengis, what other primarch/history comparisons do you see?

That in combination with the fact he was more loyal to Horus than to the Emperor.

Personally I see Guilliman as more like Julius Caesar than Alexander since he's the jack of all trades, being just as good a politician as a general. Also he is from space Rome and the ultramarines are space romans.

There is however one interesting character in the lore who bares a resemblance to Alexander the Great which is Macharius. He was essentially a normal human who conquered a lot of planets and only stopped because his troops wouldn't go any further.

>best Primarchs

The ones that got lucky with good writers in the HH series

>worst Primarchs

The ones that got writers that made them man children with daddy issues and spent more time bickering with their brothers than they did waging war

Sangiunius is Jesus.

interesting take... thinking about it maybe rowboat is more of an augustus, his ward was unJUSTly rekt and he takes it upon himself to try to pick up the pieces of broken fucked up empire and try to forge some growth and peace

>Augustus
Augustus was Caesers heir and protégée but his comparison to Guilliman would make more sense. The emperor on the golden throne is similar to the idea of March and Guilliman is the one fixing and stabilizing stuff.

The only reason ferris manus has not been said to be the worst primarch more is because everyone forgot he existed.

>he was more loyal to Horus than to the Emperor

This was pretty much it with Perturabo and Mortarion. It wasn't so much they fell to Chaos overnight as much as they just trusted their brother more than their distant father who clearly favoured other Primarchs more. At some point in the Heresy there was just a point where they had gone too far and ended up going full Chaos.

Mortarion being a hypocrite was always intentional to push that dramatic irony. He pushes so hard to learn how to defend himself and his legion from sorcery that he is unconsciously forced to unlock that hidden potential within himself. Mortarion is fully aware that he had become what he despised the most, and knew that there was no turning back at that point.

>why is it Perturabo?
That's a weird way to write Mortarion.

>Lorgar just took longer to come into his own then the other primarchs. And then when he did he tore down the Imperium and played the Warp like a goddamn fiddle.

Curze or Morty. I'm a big death guard fan but Morty is basically a brooding, shiny trophy Nurgle likes to look at sometimes. Typhus is much better than him in all regards save for being a primarch.

>mfw I really like Perturabo and Mortarion
>mfw this thread

I understand why people would dislike them though. They're not particularly fleshed out compared to some Primarchs and their personalities are the generic "cold and brooding" archtype.

I've always liked them because they're a great example of the real flaw with the Emperor's plan with the Primarchs. The Emperor wanted tools, but through fate and the whim of Chaos he got sons.

So of course the Primarchs who get the gruelling shit work and get little praise relative to others get disgruntled and vulnerable despite being literal demigods.

I never really like the HH series because it sort of trivialised this issue and made it seem like some Primarchs were just being portrayed as whiny babies when in reality they were seriously used and abused by the Emperor. When reading the 3rd edition lore, I always liked just imagining how brutal it must have been to have a Primarch like Perturabo, Mortarion, or Curze pushed to that point that they would betray the Emperor... but now that we know, it's fucking stupid.

Yeah Ferrus Manus was basically the same way but also knew what the fuck was up.

>"Rest? We were not made to rest; we go on, unflinching, unstoppable, unending in our strength. The Emperor did not make us for such mortal concerns as hearth and home, vanity or contemplation; we are his engines of war, his hammers, beating out the fabric of existence into a vessel fit for Mankind to inhabit."

You think that's bad, picture being a Guilliman fan.

Horus.
Even though the Heresy's named after him, he's so inconsequential to the plot that he falls because someone else just shot him up with enough Chaos to make him fall.
Weak-willed as shit.

but didnt lorgar and his fuckboy word bearers legion put the chaos ball in play?

Abaddon please.

>C'tan
>Truth
>Truth got fucked by metal skeletons

I agree with the sentiment that Horus is the worst Primarch as a character, however I think the problem is the reverse of what you said.

Horus is central to the plot. Loyalty to Horus is a motivating factor for most of the traitors. The problem is they use him more as a plot device than as a character. He never gets to actually do anything consequential for his own reasons. Instead his big moments are used to make other characters more important.

Morty's also an excellent soldier (damaged and brooding as he was, he was still arguably Horus's top general), but pretty much - he was loyal to Horus so he rebelled, while the chaosification of himself and his legion wasn't really anything to do with him

Manus was a great primarch pre-heresy, easily top 5 or very close, it's just that he dies on the eve of the main event (which is a largely ignored tragedy, but there you go) and thus has to sit out all the stories.
Easily one of the best primarchs at actually being a primarch though

Here's power levels, not quality levels

Magnus is the only objective answer

Same. Death Guard player who has no liking for his primarch.

I'm a big fan of Perty. He's one of the primarchs that's most easy to identify with.

But it was that red fuck Magnus.
At least Perty's IW were one of the best conquerors of the crusade.

>worst primarchs
III
XIX
Lorgar
Magnus

the rest were at least acceptably competent, even complete washouts like angron and kurze

Sanguinius, his legion was flawed to begin with, he already knew what would happen due to visions and he still let it happen.

I thought he was the Angel, Gabriel.

Underrated answer great points

After Dark Imperium gave more characterization on Mortarion, he's objectively the worst primarch in all respects.

Curze and Angron were liabilities: Emps should have put them down immediately, as they contributed nothing--- but had nowhere to go.

Lorgar and Magnus were shits. They were well meaning, but loved themselves way the fuck too much even when it was messing up people they were supposed to be on the same side of.

Perturabo got dealt a bad hand. Hard pressed in war, he just ended up following his CO.

Mortarion's the worst because he could have had an identity: Being an enforcer of purity, single minded and relentless. Like a more spiritual Ferrus. But instead, he fucking becomes an evil wizard, which he hates up through M42! He can't even use a chaos Skype-call without despising 'foul magic', despite being a fucking demon prince practicioner.

His first captain, Typhus, laughs in his face, calls him a fool and says (rightly) that Nurgle likes him more and that Mortarion is a trophy. Greater demons just mope around with him, as he sulks and is repeatedly shown to be a complete loser, both in life and daemonhood.

Truly, Mortarion is the worst.

wait, dont take me seriously, i was just shitposting

Shitposting or not I just finished fear to tread and while maybe not the worst I could see what you say being points against him

what did my little hawk boy do now ?

Just the fact that he knew what he knew as you say and still kept it a secret from the rank and file astartes... pride comes before the fall but that seems to be a pretty heavy theme in this setting

Russ and Magnus gets the tie for me even as a TS fag.

Russ is just an asshole and as more people defend him it ironically becomes worse and worse for it.

Magnus is just way too fucking weak willed. He gets verbally bitch slapped by everyone.

well, that is correct, but maybe he knew/thought that telling them would have been even worse and he had to carry this burden alone, not being able to tell anybody ?

Of course this is just a what if scenario, either your are correct and he was less noble that we thought, or i am right and he was even more space jesus than we already thought he was.....

When your shit post goes too far user

I will learn from this mistake. I wont ever shitpost against my Husbando again

It's not shitposting if you raise a good point.

Because too many tubes and no peripherical vision.

fuck, you are right, i am so bat at shitposting that i accidentally managed to make a valid point

It seems i managed to roll critical failure while shitposting

>tfw no clue how to shitpost
>tfw only know how to make decent points
>tfw too smart to shitpost

Ferrus Manus was a top-tier Primarch. He was a brilliant warrior-general who did his job without doubt or hesitation and had no illusions about his purpose.
See He was everything the Emperor could hope a Primarch to be (except alive, of course)

is that a compliment ? Thanks i guess....

Anyway, i dont think that there is such a thing as a " worst primarch ". Sure, some were definitely worse that others, but most of them had excuses for being bad and thoose who had no excuse dont need an excuse because they arent bad at all, like Sanguinius and Vulkan

Can you tell me more about Mortarians character in Dark Imperium?

> God-tier

Horus Pre-Heresy
Sanguinius
Jaghatai

> Good-tier

Fulgrim Pre-Heresy
Ferrus Manus
Corax
Vulkan

> Okay but kind of a cunt-tier

Fulgrim
Horus
Rogal Dorn
Leman Pledge
Lionel Johnson

> Worse versions of their brothers-tier

Perturabo
Konrad Curze
Angron

> Shit-tier

Mortarion
Alpharius/Omegon
Lorgar

> The one person whose fault it is that the 40k setting is fucked up-tier

Magnus

Nah, I'd still say Pert is worse, he's so mopey, and unlike, say, Ferrus, he doesn't exercise enough will or determination to be the commander he should be - he's one of the top generals in the crusade, he could refuse to garisson shit with his legion if he so chose

He gets a chapter which starts with the guy aboard his flagship's inner sanctum, which is all now warp-corrupted of course. He's playing with the soul of his alien father, who he spent 1000 years hunting down right after the Heresy. He talks to it, gloats about how he's going to try a NEW poison, and basically acts like a little weirdo.

Then he gets a warp conference call with Ku'gath and Typhus, which is basically a bunch of chaos fungus spreads, and forms mushroom holograms of them. He gets a 'chill at disgusting warp sorcery', which he hates (still) and doesn't see the irony of him being a warp sorceror daemon.

Typhus mocks him on the call, and says Mortarion is an idiot. Mortarion goes 'No, this is brilliant! I slowly attack Ultramar, very slowly, so that Guilliman can bring out all his forces. Then, I destroy them all at once! You'll see how good this plan is, and Nurgle will approve'.

Typhus laughs in his face at how (obviously) fucking stupid it is to give Guilliman of all people, huge time to prepare. He refuses to help out. When Mortartion calls him out, Typhus tells the daemon primarch to fuck off, and that Typhus is the true chosen of Nurgle, having been the one to turn the Death Guard, not Mortarion. And that Mortarion is a trophy of Typhus and Nurgle's victory, and is too pathetic and weak to really serve chaos. Typhus cuts the call, after deciding to fuck off and not throw good money after this shitty plan.

Mortarion sulks, and Ku'gath shrugs and basically goes 'Yeah, we're both failures'. The Mortarion turns off the call, goes to punch his dad, and grumbles about how he'll show everyone he can beat Guilliman.

Basically, expect Mortarion to be fucking humiliated in the next arc.

In Perturabos defense, he was a space schizophrenic who constantly had visions the eye of terror, space hell, watching him. Seriously, that's a big part of his character and a important reason why he did what he did.

Wow. Typhus really sounds like a dick and Mortarions life sounds like it really sucks.

why? He's objectively the most successful. He's not only the only primarch to get what he wanted out of the heresy, he also managed to accomplish his original goal of getting emps deified.

That's definitely viable I was just thinking why not give your guys a heads up about this flaw and try to collectively come up with some protocols or defenses but then again another theme we see in this universe is that knowledge is power both for good and bad things

Nigga knew what happens when you ignore or fight prophecies. Dont blame him for doing the best with what he had.

if i remember theres a bit where one of the primarchs asks him specifically about why he didn't tell emps about the red thirst and his visions. His response was along the lines of "i don't want daddy killing my sons like he did the lost primarchs and their legions"

>Tfw Pert and the Iron Warriors virus bombed the Space Muslim Home-planet, and proceeds to land with tons of armored vehicles to lay siege to it
>Tfw he still loses to a bunch of bombed out Muslims jury-rigging tanks together, even after getting Horus to send support
>Tfw the IW is the flat worst and most useless Legion, and Pert is the worst and most useless Primarch

How will the Iron Warriors ever recover?

Man, now I just feel bad for Mortarion. Guilliman re enters the stage and is so influential he revitalizes the Imperium. Magnus re enters and he fucks up the Fenris system.

Mortarion finally returns and he's getting mouthed off by his former first captain and is already getting set up to get fucked up by Guilliman.

Fuck, i want Death Guard to win now just to spite Mortarion.

Perturabo is based. Worst are:

Khan
"I'm so mongol"

Mortarion
Fucking scythe, jesus...

Russ
Vikings and furfag wolves

I have been reading the HH novels and I have gotten through some but not all... So far Sanguinius is the only non retarded primarch.

>dissing on Jaghatai

You are alone here, friendo.

Khan is pretty based. His books are some of the best BL stuff.

Where are you at? Just started angel exterminatus yesterday. it's why I started the thread, perty a dickhole

Fpbp

who would be Mark Anthony?

>Magnus
>Two eyes
Absolutely disgusting.

The lion?

Excuse me user, you forgot to put Alpharius/Omegon at the bottom in the "We're literally so ambiguous that nothing we do actually has relevance in any way at any time, we are less than even a plot device, merely Handwavium Incarnate for shit writers to use as needed" tier.

Not him but khan is super uninteresting and probably can't read.

Just finished fear to tread. I am way behind so far

Did you read Scars and Path of Heaven? If not it isn't surprising you find him uninteresting considering he has appeared in zero other books. He's a cool dude.

>Not Russ
>Not Lorgar
>Not Dorne
>Not Mortarion
>Not Corax
Perturabo isn't even bottom 5 out of the 18

>he only wanted the truth
which is why he believed everyone every time they told him what it was.
>takes chaos on it's word
suck a massive D-cannon you metal faggot
Nigger's dumb