Land Raider Hate

Can someone explain how Crusaders and Redeemers carry more, than base land raiders. It makes literally no sense to me (As a chaos player). And why GW didn't make all raiders hold 12 as a base in 8th?

In-lore it's because they don't need the extra reactor to power the lascannons

I guess im frustrated that GW has cucked me yet again by making chaos LRs completely void of any use other than an expensive tanky option.

I mean, they made land raiders shit for everyone. For once they didn't single you out as a chaos player. Not that you spoiled fuckheads get to pull that anymore with all of the cool releases.

I thought Land Raiders seemed pretty good this edition, since now they get 2 lascannon hits a sponson, and can target 2 tanks, and still mow down some infantry. You're no longer stuck with the heavy bolter or the lascannons being useless for a turn based on what you decided to shoot.
Tanks in general seem a lot better.

While that is true, they are 367 points of pure tank and thats it. you could bring 2 preds for the same price and just deepstike any termies (what else would you transport in a LR) for free.

i enjoy locking landraiders into combat all game longe with a squad of hormagaunts, i even start jacking off if there is a unit of termies inside.

exactly, a land raider should just squish everything in its path and not even realise what its done. They didn't think these this through.

>They didn't think these this through.

But the game is sooooo tactical and cinematic now!!!!!!!!!

>TFW Xenos all have fly on their vehicles

Ill be here putting a monolith on a 3" base and becoming immune to assault

i've locked monoliths into combat as well, if you have enough bodies, you can lock anything in combat, without the ability to fall back.

What prevents the Termies from going out? No space available in a 3" distance from the Raider?

The thing also is that a Land Raider is near unkillable. Seriously, mathammer the number of lascannon shots you need and compare it to other tanks, or even a Knight. That thing is dank.

1)Fly
2)Titanic
3)must measure from hull of the monolith even if it has a base

You can do no such thing.

>must measure from hull of the monolith even if it has a base

Technically speaking, because of Necron hover rules, you measure from your hull to their base it is impossible for them to charge you in the first place if your flying base is high enough.

OG Landraiders are amazing in 8th, anyone saying otherwise is straight up incorrect

Nothing, because that's never actually happened. But yes, if he did manage to get a 3" deep pile of units completely encircling a Land Raider then there would be no room for anyone to get out.

A couple of cool things about land raiders now.

Due to LOS rules you can hide them behind cover and shoot all their weapons from the units treads.

Also due to LOS rules you have 360 degree LOS so that means you can say shoot your heavy bolters directly behind you at a deep striking squad while firing your lascannons ahead of you.

Those apply to every vehicle

What the fuck are you talking about? A squad of six elf clowns with fusion pistols can easily take it out in a simple drive-by.

>Due to LOS rules you can hide them behind cover and shoot all their weapons from the units treads.
That would be true if LOS had any influence on cover. However you must be entirely 'in' the cover (crater for example) or entirely in contact with the cover (walls) for them to give a benefit. If you don't, even if the ennemy can only see 1% of the Raider, you have no benefit from cover.
The part about shooting is true, but it's not that hard imagining the vehicle moving a bit, shooting and coming back to cover as quick as possible, so I don't think it's a problem. The fact you move everyone, then shoot with everyone, then melee, etc. is abstraction, fluff it as you see fit.

1) you can't fall back if you can't be placed further than 1" from an enemy model, nids can easily prevent your from falling back
2) I don't think titanic does anything, yet
3) you'd get dreadsock'd so hard for such blatent waacfaggerry

Yeah but due to the size of the land raider, the solitaire rules and the fact it gets 4 lascannon shots 6 heavy bolter shots and a multi melta shot you're getting far more utility out of it than you would before thanks to the rules

Yeah I'm aware unless you're in area terrain you won't get a 1+ cover save however it does allow the land raider to hide from LOS and still fire at its target. Before you'd have to really expose the tank to do this.

A BS3+ meltagun in short range deals 1.24166666... damage on a Land Raider on average. 0.9722222... if it's not a half range.
A BS3+ lascannon deals 1.037037 damage a turn.
The thing has 16 wounds.
On average you need more than 12 short-range melta shots, more than 16 'long'-range melta shots, or more than 15 lascannon shots.

It won't serve much since if the Raider can draw a line from an enemy unit from the hull, so can the enemy.

It can be, as you can cause wounds onto things you can't see. So if you draw line of sight to a single model from a unit, you can damage the whole unit and they'd have to move to get more LoS on you.

So take something other than land raiders, faggot.

I'm fighting a normal landy carrying TH/SS termies and a Crusader with a kitted out vanguard veterans squad led by a captain, apothecary and chaplain today.

I'll update on the killyness later if thread's still up. I'm fucking scared.

>You're no longer stuck with the heavy bolter or the lascannons being useless for a turn based on what you decided to shoot.

what is the machine spirit

>So take something other than chaos
fixed

>Can someone explain how Crusaders and Redeemers carry more, than base land raiders.

It was explained when the Crusader was introduced. Since the bolters have all their ammo on the sponsons (no ammo feed into the tank), they can remove the generators for the lascannons and use it for extra transport space. I suspect the Redeemer does something similar.

How good they are individually is nothing compared to what they accomplish on the board. You can drop a bunch of termies in pretty much anywhere on the board whenever you want, for no extra cost. But a land raider is almost 400 points and you can't transport a termie lord or sorc with them (atleast in chaos). In terms of firepower you could bring 2 preds for almost the same cost (and more dakka),

>Using dorkazoid points instead of based power levels

You dropped your gay card.

That's so aids tho, where are the chaos variant LRs. It wouldn't be hard to do, its the same fucking model, or atleast 90% of it is.

Holy shit im dying.

wut?

what IS a machine spirit?

He's complaining heretics don't get the same toys as loyalists.

A miserable pile of data.

This.

Chaos doesn't get the fancy vehicle variants because they get Warp bullshit to buff their vehicles instead.

but enough talk, have at you

>He's complaining heretics don't get the same toys as loyalists.

Don't know what it has to do with explaining how a Crusader can carry more dudes than a Godhammer.

>40k loyalists get more 30k era stuff than actual 30k era traitors

Loyalty is its own reward.

Why would you ever put chaos termies in a LR? It makes no sense whatsoever. You need to get LR into place, survive an entire turn and only then be able to disembark, move and charge.
On the other hand you can drop, shoot and charge the same turn. With a MoK you stand a decent chance of making it.
Berzerks, on the other hand, could use a box to deliver them.
The loss of dirge caster feels really, really bad though. I hope it makes the codex as an artifact or something.

>Don't know what it has to do with explaining how a Crusader can carry more dudes than a Godhammer.
It doesn't, it's just an answer to an user wondering 'where are the Chaos LR variants?'
Some user already answered that though:
>40k loyalists get more 30k era stuff than actual 30k era traitors
The Crusader was 'invented' (adapted, really) by Templars in 645.M39, and the Redeemer has a similar story (only it's the Firelords who did it, can't find the date though).
Stay jelly, chaosfag.

Its actually just one rank of dudes surrounding you at 1" since the people who jump out have to be more than 1" away from an enemy

>The Crusader was 'invented' (adapted, really) by Templars in 645.M39, and the Redeemer has a similar story (only it's the Firelords who did it, can't find the date though).

I'm not talking about the Crusader, I'm talking about all the FW 30k stuff that's been put into 40k for both loyalists and CSM, all the BaC and BoP models, etc. How many of those have rules for traitor?

>Stay jelly, chaosfag.

Didn't know stating facts is jealousy. Only Chaos armies I got are my WoC for WHFB and 30k DG.

Chaos Contemptor exist, Marines can be made spikey, so I guess you were only complaining about termies? If so, I guess I could see the point if loyalists termies could take combi-weapons and power axes.
Also, I guess I could say that I 'Don't know what it has to do with explaining how a Crusader can carry more dudes than a Godhammer' :^)

Bro, you just earned 10,000 Internets.

>Chaos Contemptor exist

Via FW, not in GW rules. Of course you can say "well, use the FW rules" to which one could ask "then why do loyalists get GW rules for Contemptor if they can just use FW rules?"

>Marines can be made spikey

And spikey marines can be made unspikey, but you don't really see loyalists having to jump through hoops.

>so I guess you were only complaining about termies?

Again, stating facts here. Loyalists got, on top of their Indomitus suits, rules for tartaros and contemptor suits with all the 30k era weapons like volkites and plasma blasters. Only one CSM got is the TS special terminators in tartaros suits.

because the traitors have been cut off from support and materiel in the literal hellhole of the eye of terror and have no support network or organization anymore
the loyalist get the advantage of fighting for a organized empire with a industrial base even if its a stagnant one

Why take a land raider when you can take a kharybdis assault claw for the same points? 14' movement, sane capacity, str 16 melee, 12 rockets a turn for shooting.

And hormagaunts have 6" pile-in on a 30 strong unit, so they are very good at fucking over transports.

because it's still pretty shooty and near unkillable

Why take either when you can take a Sokar?

Chaos does have an industrial base, user. There are Forge Worlds run by the Dark Mechanicus inside Warp Storms.

There's just no over-arching organization to them.

>Again, stating facts here. Loyalists got, on top of their Indomitus suits, rules for tartaros and contemptor suits with all the 30k era weapons like volkites and plasma blasters.

Because the models aren't Chaos models.

Bumping for a story

...

You do realize that a lot of 30k traitors are still in the equipment they had when they fled, and due to time dilation, to some of them the Heresy just ended, right? So at what point did they ditch their legion equipment for spiky 40k Marines? Also, you do realize half of Mechanicum turned traitor and that traitor legions have whole worlds for themselves with industry and ways of making new Marines, right? Not to forget that for example Horus made sure legions loyal to him would get the best equipment.

Neither are CSM Rhinos, Predators and Land Raiders.

The whole gameplay dichotomy is that the loyalists get shinier toys but the heretics get the gifts of chaos and daemons to summon.

Would make more sense for both to get all the old shit, SM to get new shit and CSM to get daemon shit.

Now that all weapons can be fired even after moving, are multi-meltas more worth it on LRs?

With POMS MM always were worth it. Land Raiders themselves may have sucked, but if you took one to shove 16 angry marines forward you may as well have given it a multi-melta.

Because the GW contemptor isn't a relic of 30k, the FW one is. This is represented by the fact that the FW one has tons of options while the GW one has something like 3.
I'd wager they'll fluff it in the codex that the non-relic contemptors are modern ones made because guilliman returned, but have less options because the admech doesn't know how to make the other stuff.

No one says that. People praise it for its streamlining.

>Because the GW contemptor isn't a relic of 30k, the FW one is.

But it's the one from the 30k BaC box. Also, how is it different from the standard FW one?

>GW one has something like 3.

Yes, because it only comes with 3. Just like how Cataphractii and Tartaros squads only come with the options available in the plastic kits.

>how is it different from the standard FW one?
Different profile, much less options, plastic instead of resin, subjectively less sexy

Yeah, I was asking more how does a 30k models that's been given token 40k rules make it somehow a totally not 30k model with 40k rules? Are you claiming all FW 30k models with 40k rules are Heresy era productions and all GW 30k models with 40k rules are post-Heresy productions?

>Also, how is it different from the standard FW one?
Like this guy said
Also, the FW one is called the "relic contemptor" and has the "RELIC" keyword while the GW one doesn't. That's not something they did by mistake.

Maybe, maybe not. There's very clearly an intended difference between the two, so I was just giving a possible explanation. Hence why I said "I'd wager they" rathey than "they have"
It may just be a simple balancing thing where GW gives chaos dinobots and combiweapon termis while loyalists get contemptors and different patterns.
Who knows, who cares. Bangles, yiffs and Dangles didn't get them either despite all being first founding chapters yet they aren't bitching

Chaos contemptors don't have "relic" so I guess they're all post-Heresy production as well.