EDH/Commander General

You need one of them, desu. I don't think there is a good reason to have two unless you have the money to spare. LP vs NM should not be significant at all, but you never know and either seller could be lying about the condition.

It's on the reserve list and it's extremely strong, just buy one or two.

>its more of a thinking man's deck
Is the thought "I'm an idiot, I should have run Sidar Kondo, Reyhan, Ikra Shidiqi, Tymna, Ravos, Thrasios, Kydele, Vial Smasher, Silas, Akiri, Bruse Tarl, Ishai, Tana, Mizzix, Niv-Mizzet, Melek, Jhoira, Nin, Keranos, or Jori En, literally anyone other than Ludevic would be more useful sitting in the command zone?"

before all of the partners were spoiled i speculated that a kraum/bruse tarl deck would be pretty good in a control/voltron shell.

ludevic is pretty bad though, i think we all agree there.

Not necessarily a card but everyone in my meta has green in their decks except me. They all say that it's widely accepted that green is the best color in the format and I'm dumb for not playing it in most decks.
They also straight up netdeck. like I'm okay with checking out edhrec but straight up looking up "best Meren edh deck" or "best green edh deck" annoys me because they won't even try to tune it for our metas. One of them is also the same guy that goes to modern tournaments with me and bases his side off of mtg top 8 even though they usually have tron/eldrazi hate in their side and no one where we play plays tron or eldrazi.

But yeah I get told I don't take edh competitively because Im not running my decks 100% optimally (i.e not running original duals and tuning my deck for our meta) because I don't straight up net deck even though I probably have the highest win % because they don't know their deck synergies, best ways to work the stack, and other things you learn from playing a lot of magic

tldr; friends look up "best decks ", say green is best, I don't build green decks so I'm "not competitive "

build angus mackenzie fog&wrath tribal with no win con or some other similar no fun allowed deck and make them suffer for their insolence

I've actually considered doing something like that.

Another thing they said was "Why are you playing breya don't you know that yidris is the only tier 1 4 color commander?" just because they found some site with commander tiers.

I just like playing commanders I like and I mean it's edh there's no 1 true best deck of all time

Find some other friends to play with

i'm with you man. i've got a reasonably competitive meta (strong commanders, perfect mana bases, etc.) and i'm the johnny with the bad bullshit decks that gets laughed at for playing "bad cards".

the laughter stops when follow up on my knowledge pool by flashing teferi in from the command zone.

If anything Breya is the more competitive 4-color commander because artifacts and she's a wincon on her own.

Next time bring monocolor Teferi and show them the truest best edh color

Eh, Breya has her own combos. Yidris requires you to connect, and even though he's stupid good, I don't think that he's worthy of using just because someone said on the internet that he's the best.

>tfw no one truly understands how fucking great arcbond is
>Suddenly Blasphemous Act can hit everyone for 13

Christ alive, every Red deck of mine is going to have it now.

what is your most competitive deck?

yisan because it was cheap to build and still crazy strong

I would but they're the few people in the magic club that actually play commander so its kind of like I either play with them or don't play edh.
I mean it's not like I play super janky things. I just don't want to spend several hundred dollars for the original duals. They just consider my stuff not competitive because I didn't find a specifically made list online that said "100% most optimal build for this commander" instead I look for specific ways I want to build a deck, I'll even check out edhrec, and make my own decisions. I guess I could post my breya deck since it's the one I tuned the most to see if you guys think it's janky or not.
I mean I like yidris but I just think breya is a lot cooler. She's definitely good but these are people who give me shit for having liliana of the veil in grixis death shadow for modern tournaments because she wasn't on the mtgtop8 side board even though out of 25 people that go to our lgs 9 play boggles and she's the best answer to them in grixis colors.

They also gave me shit for taking apart yidris and using a lot of the stuff in my yidris deck to make a nekusar deck because he's considered weaker. I just think Nekusar is cool and I like changing things up.

Wow, tough. Not enough artifacts for Sydri, not enough white for Zur, not enough Blue for Sen Triplets or any other non-build-around.

Maybe Ertai, the Corrupted Reanimator?

i'm pretty sure that's gold for multicolored, not white

Sheldon is holding the format back.

I'm going with Gisa and Geralf.

you don't have to listen to his banlists, talk to your group and figure out what works for you.

I think that most Nekusar decks are bad, because usually it's a bad idea to give opponents all the cards they would want.

I used to be a Phelddagrif/Norin chaos and Grouphug memester and these days that kind of shit just sickens me

Wow, I must've had a stroke. Yeah, definitely G&G.

most of the nekusar decks i've seen only play him when they've got a way to give him infect and then wheel twice for a quick win

Probably Jeleva. I played it vintage singleton grixis storm, and picked Jeleva as she was the most disruptive/cost effective commander there was in those colors. She also provided a fairly reliable alternate wincon, or an alternate means to increase storm count/cast doomsday. I only played it when I knew the game was going to be super competitive, with similarly powerful decks.

The most accidentally unfair deck I created though was Reki, History of Kamigawa. It could reliably go off T3 or T4 with a huge storm count by casting most of the deck, into a craterhoof. I built it because he seemed interesting and wanted a timmy kind of deck. I ruined a few games with 20 minute storm turns, then retired it, because as broken as it was in the meta I built it for, it wasn't going to ever be good enough in the vintage singleton metas that I should have played it in. I think about revisiting it every now and then, because I loved playing with all those cool legendaries.

The same is true for all formats user, but only EDH has the problems it does.

Not him, but a lot of people play with multiple groups. That's the point of defining a format, a critical mass of players all agree to follow the same restrictions.

It's okay to have beef with Sheldon is my point, I guess. Also okay to ignore him entirely, but you're not playing Commander at that point.

the EDH banlist was never really a set in stone thing on account of it being a strictly casual format, even to the people who build 100% competitive decks.

it's a thing to play with friends for fun, so house ruling something is a lot easier than, say, getting such and such card unbanned in modern or legacy.

Could we talk about Archenemy in this theead? Its kinda tangentially related I guess and Ive been thinking ofnreworking the precon decks to be a little better balanced and more powerful, buildimg a little more around teammates, like using Minds Aglow, and giving Bolas some of the stronger schemes from the previous sets and making him a little lighter on one for ones in exchange for more board wipes like Sweltering Suns, etc.

But it isnt realy xommander though. So.

>meet with a new group
>"hey guys is it cool if i use tamanoa as my commander/use emrakul in my deck?"
if they say no, play something else or swap out the problem card. if they say yes, you're all good.

Having no solid footing to base your lists on results in problems when:

1. You play with multiple groups
2. You play online (solved, since wotc did the right thing and kicked the RC out for online games, but it was a huge mess before)
3. You play at tournaments in between rounds with people you just met!

The EDH banlist being shit creates all of these problems, and effectively encourages not meeting new people, but retreating into insular communities, increasingly alien to every other insular community. The EDH banlist encourages the exact opposite of the sort of behavior it should.

It's Grim-Grin, but the twins are in the deck, so it's probably impossible to distinguish between the two from looking at the curve.

I'd be interested. Archenemy is a fun format and I'm all about multiplayer. The decks definitely need better balancing. The red one in particular sucks donkey dicks.

i remember you, you were the guy complaining about fast mana being legal in the format a few threads ago.

i agree with you to an extent, someone going t1 mana crypt sol ring wheel can be pretty good in a 75% meta, but a lot of decks NEED that shit to deal with the food chain, hermit druid, and buried alive decks that dominate the more competitive metas.

That's incorrect. Sol Ring helps the unfair combo decks as much as it helps any other deck. (Seriously, every single deck you mentioned runs sol ring). The problem with it is that it creates really broken gamestates.

I dunno if there's enough distinctive about this curve, but we'll see.

>Seriously, every single deck runs sol ring

FTFY

yeah, they all use it, but the decks i mentioned get a lot less mileage out of it than something like a teferi stax build or a storm list. without the fast mana, prossh would still be almost exactly as powerful and degenerate of a deck and the slightly slower control decks wouldn't be able to compete any more.

That's the kind of mindset I was trying to avoid. [insert commander] is bad or less competitive than this other commander so you shouldn't play him. I mainly built him to try some new things to see how I like them or how well they do. obviously if I just wanted to win every game id spend a few grand and get the most optimal everything and wreck everyone i come up Against but that doesn't sound that fun to me .
I've tried nekusar infect combo and it ended up working well. I also tried nekusar built around milling and a more control version of nekusar. Is he a tier 1 commander? no not at all. I still had fun and got some wins with him.

Really Im just interested in adjusting them because the dynamic of having three team mates versus one player adds an interesting layer of interaction with some cards that the set didnt really do much with. It had a few things that took advantage of it, like Vision Skeins and Fertilid, but I think there could be more, like the aforementioned Join Forces cards or some more obscure ones like Indentured Djinn.

And to compensate for stronger team mates, Bolas could have more powerful individual cards like fast mana and more boardwipes than he currently has, as well as go back to some of the stronger schemes archenemy had before, which I heard were actually too powerful, but if the team mate decks are drawing 6-9 cards between them, and the prof has said the balance is leaning a little towards ths Gatewatch in this set already, then I feel like Bolas probably will need some help.

The main thing is Im not quite sure how to go about building the remodels. Should they be built like "real decks"? Mostly singleton like the actual precons for variance? How do I determine what cards should be more and how many to use? Should the decks have a subtheme like some currently do on top of their role in the team (nissa supports, gideon protects and removes, chandra is dps), like Nissa has a landfall subtheme?

Okay, that's just blatantly incorrect. Have you even played the competitive meta? Consider for a moment that you're saying, the presence of sol ring, a card that any one player has a low chance of drawing in a short game, makes some decks competitive viable against other decks, that apparently can consistently combo out on turn 3 or 4 regardless of their sol ring draw. The logic just doesn't work. Sol ring is not a format police card. It's ridiculous that you think it is.

Well yeah. It and Mana Crypt are arguably the two best cards in the game.

>P-Hulk unbanned
>Gifts still banned
>"B-but gifts enables to many combos..."

Yeah, because ProHulk combos aren't even that gud in EDH amirite.

You forgot the major difference:

>P-Hulk is a glorious creature
>Gifts is a dirty instant.

sol ring, mana crypt, mana vault, basalt monolith, chrome mox, grim monolith, mox diamond, mox opal, and thran dynamo are all cards that get played in these decks and allow them to keep up the pace. you also can't forget cards like tezzeret, enlightened tutor, and trinket mage among others to draw these cards with consistency.

how many tutors do you typically play with?

>lists fast mana that all unfair combo decks have access to and can use in equal measure
>tutors (when all unfair combo decks run tutors as well)

You still aren't convincing anybody that these decks somehow benefit less than any other deck by randomly getting +2 mana in a game.

As for my tutor count, it depends on the deck and the meta I'm playing for.

I play protean hulk in two decks, but I'm never gonna defend the thing. Shit's broken as hell and I feel like Sheldor is out of his mind.
Frankly, I would like to have less degenerate shit unbanned, like Painter's Servant and Limited Resources to limit the UG shitters. Also, inb4 "b-but muh Iona and Grindstone"

Guess!

I don't know if this makes it too obvious, but as a hint the deck is built for flavor

Ayli

B-b-but muh casual friendly and totally fun Iona that should never be banned in a casual format, and muh infinite combo with grindstone that can only kill one player a turn in a multiplayer format and loses to Eldrazi, Gaea's Blessing, Darksteel/Blightsteel Collossus, Elixir of Immortality and any other number of cards that completely hose non exile based mill!

If you let painter's servant back in the format, these two cards would be so degenerate!

One and done, good job user

>t1 llanowar elves
>t2 tutor + second mana dork
>t3 food chain, play prossh, haste enabler, win the game

as a teferi player, i'm not gonna have my stax lock down by then without access to my fast mana. the best possible options i have for beating this without it is hoping i've got mana drain, swan song, or force of will in hand.

if they were banned, my combo would be a lot worse, i'd have to rely on weaker mana rocks, and the prossh player across the table can still reliably go off on turn 3.5 every game with 1-drop mana dorks.

The list of "Tier 1" commanders in multiplayer is not large, because of the nature of multiplayer. Off the top of my head:

Karn
Grand Arbiter
Angry Omnath
Baby Teysa
Mizzix
Meren
Derevi
Zur
Oloro
Prossh
Marath
Mayael
Animar
Ghave
Narset
Atraxa
Ydris

OG Sidisi might make that list, and I expect The Locust God to as well.

Either way, my point is that there are tons of perfectly viable commanders that aren't "Tier 1," and Nekusar is plenty powerful.

Yeah, it was very obviously Ayli-Drazi.

The flavor part did give it away. Only other option off the top of my head was the Kaladesh guy and putting lots of artifacts in his deck. I would have never guessed Ayli would have that much colorless otherwise.

ehhhh, i'd say marath, omnath, ghave, teysa, atraxa, and karn are T2 at best.

Then you play/build like shit.

1. I'm not talking about banning all mana rocks. Just sol ring and mana crypt, both of which can enable a t2 food chain, which is even more unanswerable.

2. You should have more counterspells that you can easily cast. This is a huge flaw with your list. Git Gud.

Gaea's Cradle

If I have some cash I'd pick it since it will never go down in price, but I don't want to invest in cardboard

Does Sidisi ANT not count? I'm a little confused that she's never mentioned here or ever came close to being banned.

I can understand nobody playing her because it's incredibly linear, but it seems powerful.

i do have more counterspells, and i know you're not talking about banning all rocks.

my point is that a competitive deck aims to win or secure a lock on turn 3.5 every single game. decks that use hermit druid, buried alive, and food chain to do this can easily accomplish that task without fast mana, while many other alternative strategies wouldn't be fast enough to compete without it.

His list is kinda bullshit and wrong. Most obvious transgressions are angery omnath and mayael.

Gonna build a naya deck that gets max value off my commander hitting opponents. But not voltron.

What are some of the best double strike/unblockable cards I can use?

I have Rouge's passage, Glaring Spotlight, Duelists Heritage.
What else is top tier?

...

Duelist heritage has compatriots in silverblade paladin and ajani, caller of the pride. One of the elspeths is pretty good too, gives flying and a pump, but I forget which.

OG Sidisi Living Death is scarier than Nu Sidisi ANT, at least partially because you get blue and green in the deck. Even then, I left it off the list because it requires quite a lot of setup and other commanders can combo off quite a bit faster. JMHO, this is obviously very subjective.

Teysa and Karn are absolutely T1. If any Naya commander moves down, it's Mayael, because Marath combos are ridiculous.

Also, I definitely forgot Jhoira in my tier list.

>it's another "user who knows nothing about competitive edh pretends to be a tier whore to look cool on an anonymous imageboard" episode
Come on bud, you have no idea what you're talking about. Almost all those decks are t2, or lower, you forgot planeswalker teferi and azami outright, while also putting old teysa on the same tier as Ghave. You don't even get points for effort here.

And that's still retarded. Sol Ring will always boost whoever draws it by 2, allowing for even faster combo wins than without it. Without the best mana in the format, more fair decks will have a chance to fight based purely on land drops.

You're so wrong here, I suspect you haven't even played the competitive meta you're claiming to have knowledge about.

Teysa absolutely cannot compete with the likes of General Tazri or Thrasios

>It's another "Shit on someone's opinions because you always know best and need to let everyone know it" episode
I did miss Azami, but Teferi seems to follow the trend of 'walker commanders being too fragile.

So I am dreaming up an unblockable tribal under UB sygg, and while I will uave card draw out the ass, what should I put in to actually Kill people? Infect? Lots of weapon equipment? Hatred and similar effects?

you seem aggravated. no need to get so upset, friend.

i'd be happy to see fast mana banned out, but only on the condition that a bunch of other stuff gets banned as well. in fact, i'd like to see most of the faster tutors banned too.

Yeah I guess I didn't read it closely.

>Sidisi ANT requires quite a lot of setup
No, it only requires lands, rocks, and rituals and 1 game-winning card which you can tutor up with your commander. And ramp + combo pieces only take up ~20 slots so you can pack a lot of combo protection.

>Karn
>Mizzix
>Mayael
>Ydris
>JHOIRA
>t1
C'mon, user. You thought Sidisi required setup?

>Karn
Definitely not tier 1
>Grand Arbiter
Maybe
>Angry Omnath
Sure
>Baby Teysa
Only because of Darkest Hour desu
>Mizzix
Sure
>Meren
Tier 2 imo. She's super grindy and gives tons of value, but she isn't as explosive or controlling as most of this list
>Derevi
Yes
>Zur
Yes
>Oloro
Yes
>Prossh
Fuck yes
>Marath
Yes
>Mayael
No lol
>Animar
Yes
>Ghave
Tier 2 imo. He's just really outclassed by Marath
>Narset
Yes
>Atraxa
No.
>Ydris
No

Just put in some sort of easy combo and use your draw to put it together. Doomsday, Palinchron, rings + monolith, etc.

>ramp + combo pieces only take up ~20 slots
Sorry, I wasn't counting the cheapo cards which power Tendrils. You could also go Sickening Dreams + Sphere, I suppose

Teferi is so good there is a reasonable discussion about banning him outright. You know how his deck works?
>ramp into teferi
>untap your rocks/doubling cube
>shit out so much goddamned mana the rest of the game is completely trivial

Now, that being said, yes I'm shitting on your opinion because of your false-authoritative bravado that's horribly misinformed. Memnarch is more deserving of undeserving t1 status than half of the guys on your list. Even t2 darietti is more deserving. Also, no fucking yissan? Come on bud, you should know better.

Teferi seems to be really obscure. Like nobody talks about him, but when they do it's all about how powerful he is. It's a weird effect.

I just swapped all my foil and full art swamps and also a normal chinese esper swamp for snow covered swamps and an Extraplanar Lens in my mono black deck. I know it's the best choice for my deck, but I can't help feel like part of me died.

Why the fuck are the Esper swamps so god damn expensive. I was building Silas/Akiri storm and I wanted the esper swamps to match but god fucking damn.

Well unfortunately it won't ever be, because Sheldon is holding the format back.

i think the REAL lesson here is "don't play EDH with randoms"

Only one acting authoritative here is you, bruh. I literally pulled that list out of my ass, said as much, and have already noted a couple of misses.

Yisan was better in the 99 of a UGx Prophet list than he is as a commander.

>playing commander with 3 buddy's at LGS
>dude comes in and buys some singles to finish up his deck
>sits next to use asks to test his deck out
>"sure"
>4th friend sits out to eat
>game gets started
>new guy cheats out avacyn turn 4 with quicksilver amulet
>armegaddon next turn
>path avacyn in response
>he yells at us for not letting him win

Are all MLD players autistic?

Or we could make EDH a format where it's safe to meet new people and play a friendly game, men and women, all physically fit and emotionally mature, able to have a nice game over craft brews in a new pub.

Or we could have Insular, EDH bubbles of increasingly unhygenic neckbeards with in-jokes that make no sense.

The latter of these is Sheldon's vision, and it sucks.

>Are all MTG players autistic?

...no?

no, that's actually wrong

Any player who can't accept that delicious irony sure as fuck is.

>Karn
>t1
BAHHAHAHAHAHAHAH wow imagine being this diluted!

>UGx Prophet
What did he mean by this?

how much of this story was true

did he really yell

I could almost buy someone thinking Karn was t1. It was Mayael that made me lose it.

Well, considering the lgs is pretty loud by default. He was visibly upset.

Said he just put it together and we didn't have to be dicks about it. I couldn't tell if he was memeing or not.

Since he packed up and left after that game, I think he was genuinely salty.

Before pic related got banned, there was a large number of UGx decks that were devoted to finding it, protecting it, and abusing it, such as letting you tick up Yisan terrifyingly quickly.

That's objectively incorrect. Yisan is firmly t1.5, because the deck is toolboxy, can answer anything, and with unbanned Hulk, now can shit out insane value with ease.

Assuming prophet was unbanned, yisan is still 1.5 because he's just so powerful outright. Have you ever played competitively? I'm pretty sure he's banned 1v1 for being unanswerable.