>There's an unwritten understanding among planeswalkers that no Slivers should be summoned within Velis Vel, for fear of causing an ecological catastrophe within Lorwyn's underground.
So what this "ecological catastrophe" is exactly? Global warming?
Source:
>magic.wizards.com
Also general MTG Lore Thread.
>giving entire races new found powers, especially those with racial kinship
Did you even read the first part of the image? You'd create super slivers in the cavern, throw in the changelings (all creature types) and you just fucked the entire plane.
This. The catastrophe is the Slivers themselves.
>Cave full of changelings
>Summon sliver
>Holy shit changelings doing changelings
>Holy shit slivers doing sliver things
>Holy shit there's slivers everywhere
>Plane is overrun by slivers and there's no Samuel L. Jackson
>Plane crashed with no survivor, besides slivers
You don't fucking toy with slivers. They're second only to phyrexians when it comes to causing mass extinction.
except silvers have come back from being wiped up more than once and phyrexians have only come back once
Phyrexians have only had to come back once.
Luckily, Slivers are not a multi-planar issue.
Yet.
I am, however, hoping to see more of them when we return to Dominaria. Yes, even though they'll be the nu-Slivers.
slivers were always my favorite, though
Slivers are really underrated in the lore.
I know this is from the fluff source but considering what that same fluff has shown us about walkers I find it very hard to believe that such an understanding would work. I can think of several walkers who'd have no problem doing this. Nicol Bolas would do it if it somehow helped him become an oldwalker again. Sorin would do it if he could use it to make an overly dramatic point. Nahiri is crazy now so she would because crazy.
It's more likely Velis Vel just isn't well known amongst walkers or Lorwyn would have been dead 10 times over already. Good thing Tibalt hasn't heard about this yet.
>newwalkers
>ruin everything for no good reason
Well duh
I imagine it should be a spell surrounding the place like:
>⊘ Slivers
At least you'll have some normal slivers in the mix, considering the backlash made the second attempt in the core sets include the originals.
Also Maro admited it was a mistake changing their visual design.
As opposed to oldwalkers, who ruined planes like Serra's Realm.
>As opposed to oldwalkers who ruined everything whenever they felt like it.
What, like a "don't walk on the grass" sign? How is that gonna stop anyone? Who will enforce it? Are there Velis Vel park rangers? Is Chuck Norris patrolling?
>>There's an unwritten understanding among planeswalkers that no Slivers should be summoned within Velis Vel, for fear of causing an ecological catastrophe within Lorwyn's underground.
But nuWalkers don't summon creatures. They "evoke" them. Nothing is displaced and therefore summoned, nuWalkers just poof the desired creature into existence and it ceases to exist when the nuWalker no longer needs it.
And the changelings will still be able to copy that form, and thus its ability to spread its adaptations to others in the vicinity.
Note that nobody cares about summoning changelings near slivers, it's specifically summoning a sliver near where the changelings spawn.
>Slivers =
Fuck it didn't show up, it was the biohazard symbol.
that better be true
>MTG
>lore
It is, but he also really wants to keep trying to push the human ones too.
>53985797
low effort bait not worth a (you)
ITT op doesn't realize that introducing an invasive species to an environment that it thrives in counts as an ecological disaster
especially when that species has already caused multiple mass extinctions.
This. Either you get sliver-changelings or changeling-slivers, probably both if we're being honest, and before long you've got phyrexian-eldrazi-changleling-sliver everywhere. They'd probably start worshipping the biggest PECS in town and then you'd have PECS gods, too. Sooner or later one would manifest, steal or manufacture a spark, and then everything's fucked.
You're right of course. Still, I feel that the quality of the lore seems to have been going down fast as of late. Especially Bolas's story in Amonkhet and what we've got from HoD so far has been disappointing. Mybe it's because I was looking forward to some good Bolas scheming but I just don't get where they're going whit this. It kinda feel like they're writing themselves into a corner.
It's possible of course that this plot is so well crafted that we won't see it untill the end and we'll all be going, omg that's genius, how awesome. But somehow I'm doubting this.
I just can't see how zombie space marines wil make Bolas an oldwalker again, so how can Amonkhet be so important. Sure, it's a way to fix the backlash from Gatewatch over exposure and I get that but I still would have liked to see an awesome Bolas with a cunning and devious schem and be like, "clever girl, I mean boy".
Bolas is one of my favorit characters and it's disappointing to see him being used as a marketing tool. or at least, so it seems so far.
Return to Dominaria. Next Planeswalker is a Sliver-Walker, Who IS the hivemind. 5 Colour, 15 mana total to har cast, new big bad in the multiverse, but, plot twist is a good guy / girl and doesn't give a fuck.
>That piece of lore where to sneak past a bunch of slivers two wizards polymorph themselves slivers
>Suddenly cuts to months later where they finally come back into cognizance
>They're confused as to how long they've been in the hive
>They meet the hivelord who sees through their ruse and forces them back to normal
>They leave the hive before one of them thinks he'll stay awhile
>He's not used to the quiet of the outside, likes the hum of the Slivers
The changelings instantly forget forms that leave their presence, though, don't they? So it shouldn't be an issue unless the nuWalker chooses to evoke the sliver for a very long time.
>You're right of course. Still, I feel that the quality of the lore seems to have been going down fast as of late.
Do you mean "it's been shit for the last decade?" Because the downslide started at Alara and quality bottomed out around Scars of Mirrodin. Jace and his pals are pure story poison, plain and simple.
The best bits of lore are the complete out of left field ones. The ones taking place on worlds that the Jacetice League aren't on. They're fantasy story snippets and are solid short stories.
Problem is they haven't written one of those in a long time.
It will be a mature Silver Legion.
Whatever Vraska is up to on Ravnica was tell in a story a few weeks ago
Congrats you just made MtG next great villain the gatewatch will crush in like a week.
Not really, the only one that pushed the design change was the art director at the time Jeremy Jarvis.
When Sliver come back they won't be humanoid, we all know how WotC reacts to backlashes.
>Do you mean "it's been shit for the last decade?"
How long it's been shit is up for debate I guess, personally I haven't been following the lore that close for that long. I just don't like were they seem to be going now with this arc right now.
>Jace and his pals are pure story poison, plain and simple.
I'm really not that bothered by them. I'm really an overarching story type of guy. Jace and pals are just the window through wich to view it. As long as there "character building" isn't waylaying the plot to much I don't care.
>I'm really not that bothered by them.
I can tell you why you're not bothered by them.
>personally I haven't been following the lore that close for that long.
Right here. If you had experienced the earlier stories, that were about planes and people rather than invincible infallible superheroes, you'd be less accepting of Maro's pets.
>invincible infallible superheroes
I hear a lot of people say that but are they really? Sure they beat Ula and Kozi. But they just got lucky or Innistrad. They were just kinda there during events on Kaladesh and we now they're going to get there asses handed to them by Bolas. They really don't seem like the mary sues everybody says they are.
>beat not one but two unstoppable cosmic forces using what's essentially a really big fireball
>take no casualties or even wounds in the process
They're Mary sues m8. I can give you a point-by-point breakdown for each one (except Gideon because he's mostly sue by association) if you like.
Please do.
On a related note, I'm sick and tired of "Oh they got lucky" being an excuse. It's just another bullshit win to add to the pile through trash writing.
That sure is an overly simplistic way of describing them using what was nearly the entire mana of a plane. A plane that was so bursting with mana that it was a beacon to said cosmic forces.
>beat not one but two unstoppable cosmic forces using what's essentially a really big fireball
Implying a really big fireball isn't what MtG is all about.
>Nissa
Directly responsible for everything the eldrazi ruined, has never suffered for it. Never even really been called out on it except by Sorin.
>Chandra
Generic quippy "lol I set it on fire character," which there's not necessarily anything wrong with. Thing is, burning everything isn't supposed to work every goddamn time.
>Liliana
Evil magician whose main thing is bargaining with demons, but somehow everyone still at least tolerates her. Pretty much established she's not allowed to suffer after Triumph of Ferocity.
>Jace
Smarter than you. Quips. Has a super hot demon magic gf. Also the most important person on Ravnica. Thing is, he used to be fine in the old novels because he came off as quiet and calculating as opposed to the nothing personnel kid we have now.
>Gideon
Hercules was pretty sue, but he didn't get bad until he got wrapped up in memewatch shenanigans.
The above are my opinions.
Yeah, it was a REALLY BIG FIREBALL. But you're talking about killing what's essentially extradimensional cthulu. Binding them to a physical form so they could fireball could've been a neat story even if it didn't happen over two short stories.
None of that sounds particularly Mary Sueish, except Jace's which you're really exaggerating on (and I don't even know where you get nothing personnel kid from him).
Also, we just had a short story where Jace vomited at the sight of Liliana's mercilessness and everybody walked away from her in disgust.
>>Nissa
>Directly responsible for everything the eldrazi ruined, has never suffered for it. Never even really been called out on it except by Sorin.
She suffered by losing the entire continent of her homeworld, simultaneously eradicating her whole cultural lineage of Joraga elves. There are no Joraga anymore. This is what contributes to her feelings of social awkwardness around he Gatewatch. There is nobody like her left, and its her fault. What are they suppoaed to do, bring up the fact that she did that every time shes on screen? "Hey, remember that time you removed your culture from the face of the planet?" Nissa is probably the closest to a mary sue, though.
>>Chandra
>Generic quippy "lol I set it on fire character," which there's not necessarily anything wrong with. Thing is, burning everything isn't supposed to work every goddamn time.
Doesnt make her a sue, and it DOESN'T work every time. Its explicitly her character trait that shes a constructive person with a destructive powerset who cant always do what she needs to do, and is why she works with the GW and feels a connection to Gideon in particular who is her rock when she feels helpless because of her powerset. There were at least 2 stories I recall during Kaladesh highlighting this
>>Liliana
>Evil magician whose main thing is bargaining with demons, but somehow everyone still at least tolerates her. Pretty much established she's not allowed to suffer after Triumph of Ferocity
They tolerate her, doesnt make her a sue. At least two members of the GW actively distrust her and Jace flip flops. Also we just had a story where a demon mindrapes her into submission.
>>Jace
>Smarter than you. Quips. Has a super hot demon magic gf. Also the most important person on Ravnica. Thing is, he used to be fine in the old novels because he came off as quiet and calculating as opposed to the nothing personnel kid we have now.
you dont actually read the story because Jace is still exactly this character
The "nothing personnel" probably comes from his flavor text, which is not representative of his storyline character.
Jae feigned interest.
And that's not at all how Jace acts in the storyline.
I thought nu-Slivers were just a mutation that happened on Shandalar?
>They really don't seem like the mary sues everybody says they are.
The fact that they survived fucking up against Bolas is a HUGE mark towards them being sues.
Holy fuck does no one know what a mary sue is? Beissded the fact they alresdy survived the motherfucking great old ones, surviving narratively impossible scenarios doesnt make you a mary sue. It can be shitty storytelling, and maybe a symptom of a mary sue, but it isnt what that means. Jave appears to become a god damn wildman after this encounter for fuck's sake.
Mary Sue is no longer an infallible character who can do no wrong, everbody loves, and never fails at what they do. Mary Sue is now a character you don't like (even if you're like the guy complaining who apparently never reads the stuff).
A Mary Sue would not just -survive- against something like Bolas, they'd kick his ass and make him apologize.
As is, we know they get beaten badly and scattered to the winds, most likely because they're so far beneath Bolas' notice that he couldn't be bothered.
The GW are more lucky than anything else.
Tell mee everything about Marit Lage. I own all cards that have anything to do with her.
The real C'thulu
Also she can traverse planes, but is not a "planeswalker", and is currently trapped in a glacier.
They're probably only not dead because they've been doing more shit that benefits him than hindering him.
So he shows them that no, they can't do shit to him so they don't try that again, and send them packing so that they can keep accidentally furthering his goals.
Obviously someone just made an Emblem with "Players can't cast Sliver spells without changeling. If a Sliver without changeling would enter the battlefield, exile it instead. Whenever a Sliver without changeling is on the battlefield, exile it." and stuck it in Velis Vel.
I prefer Humility
Invoke Prejudice and Thran Lens
That'd fuck up the natural ecosystem too much.
How stupid do they have to be? How out of touch with their own community do they have to be to not have instantly realized the nu-slivers were a mistake? Everyone on Veeky Forums knew it was retarded the instant it was leaked.
There was some behind the scenes fuckery.
They planned on making an entirely new creature type, got all the way through with Design and most of Development with this new creature type, and then switched it over to Sliver after the art had already been commissioned and was ready to go.
>It was a classic case of moving-target syndrome. When we started work on the redesign, it was because "the one thing these cannot be are Slivers." They were mechanically different, so they would be a new creature type. We were referring to them internally as Sleen. No idea if that name would have stuck. Goals and parameters were given to [concept artist] Richard [Whitters] and me to achieve this. Then, at some point, it was decided that there was enough equity in the type "Sliver" that these would, in fact, be Slivers. The expectations of the goals and parameters, however, stuck for some reason, rather than being reassessed with the type-line decision's reversal.
They eventually decided players would be more upset that the new "Sleen" had been printed instead of printing more Slivers than they would be if they fudged the art direction for Slivers, so they figured they'd try to write off the "Sleen" art direction by saying it was just Slivers who'd made some sort of adaptation. They knew there were going to be problems either way, so they picked the option they figured would ultimately have fewer complaints.
Instead of this buttfuckery, why didn't they just drop the concept and made something different?
>WotC
Because they already commisioned art and done design you doofus
...
Tbh they did choose the lesser of two evils, look at how triggered everyone is getting over naga and jackals. Sleen would have caused a few heart attacks.
They could have avoided it. Anyways, I hope they learned.
Though honestly I don't know what the fuck naga are doing on an Egyptian plane, in the same set that snake tokens are in.
At least it's a more grounded argument than "muh niggers in X setting" crap.
The writing team had to use Bolas as a bit of a glass breaker due to the Gatewatch not taking off very well. I feel as though it's a good thing due to us finally breaking the team up into fragments, which is where all of the good Gatewatch stories have spanned from (gee, it's almost like less protagonists means better stories!). We'll have the Gatewatch for far longer than we'll have Bolas, and I'm glad to see them becoming more aware of how carefully they need to handle this.
As for Bolas' army, I expect that he'll use it to subjugate and cultivate multiple worlds, looking for one whose leylines will reignite him, much like Ob Nixilis.
>infallible
>lose Sea Gate twice
>over half of Zendikar is dead now
>get laid out on Innistraad
>lose the Aether Spire
>now Bolas is canon pushing their shit in
And this is to say nothing of their actual, flawed personalities that we see clash quite often during conversations.
>Jace getting his fucking face smashed in by Nixilis and mind-fucked by Emrakul never happened
His personality is also very similar to the older novels. He's almost always analyzing and thinking to himself before he speaks, and carries the same introverted tone he always has. It might seem not as prevalent with him now regularly communicating with other people rather than locking himself in his study with a Big Gulp of coffee for twelve hours, but it's still there.
But Bolas's spark is already there still, and in fact supercharged already via the Conflux.
It's just not pre-Mending level again.
Ob's problem was that his spark was as close to dead as possible and was useless. Bolas does not have this problem
Fair points on the naya bunch, but the dimir stuff is a little off base. Liliana gave everyone mental trauma when she ate razaketh and jace is constantly spilling his spaghetti while trying to look cool and confident in front of his squad. Shit they both hid that they were banging from the rest of the gatewatch just because.
I feel as though this is less "we want our characters to have no weakness" and moreso the story not giving the right time to delve into this. Gideon's got a severe case of flag-bearer syndrome, Nissa is likely holding back trauma from Zendikar, and Chandra hasn't really run into anything to break her. I'd love to see these past scars explored, and some new ones formed, but we're missing opportunities to do so because it's supposed to be action-driven. Hopefully Bolas' victory will give the writers a good opportunity to weave this in.
Your post is a lot more fun if you take PECS as you just shouting pecs and not as the actual acronym.
Veeky Forums Slivers.
>Yeah, it was a REALLY BIG FIREBALL. But you're talking about killing what's essentially extradimensional cthulu
To quote an expert on the subject: You should fight everything with fire.
So any story that doesn't end the moment someone lose a fight is populated the mary sues?
Wat?
>The fact that they survived fucking up against Bolas is a HUGE mark towards them being sues.
What should WOTC done? Have them win? Kill off all the current faces of the game?
Bolas considers two of the five his property, and by the extension that they are working together he considers the other 3 also his property. Why break your things when you can just make them work right?
I was referring to how you completely raped your own sentence. It makes no sense.
Oh, my bad. I'm on Morphine so my proofreading is borked.
>and phyrexians have only come back once
At least twice, actually. Elspeth's homeplane has been taken over by a so far unseen branch of Phyrexians.
>tasabo had protection from legends and "died" to gerrard
We probably already know who it is user
I actually really prefer the M14 designs over the old designs, and I hope they use them again. Granted, I was never around for the old Slivers. But not the M15 designs, fuck those things. They all look godawful, except for the U and M ones.
Anyway, we still haven't even seen the Slivers' home plane, so maybe they look entirely different from the Rath or Shandalar designs, who knows?
What's really insulting about suddenly differentiating jackals from hounds is that in the very same set they also started printing goatmen but gave them the minotaur creature type.
WotC's creative department has absolutely no sense of consistency.
Is there an archive of all the novels somewhere? It honestly seems like I'm missing out on some good shit.
I've never read the novels myself, but from what I understand, the only ones worth reading are the Weatherlight books, and the Lorwyn-Shadowmoor books. But definitely avoid the Zendikar and Scars of Mirrodin books. They're written by the same person, someone who seems to be completely inept at storytelling.
>The Gatewatch
The who?
I hope they all die. I know it won't happen, but still.
So how did each of them get BTFO?
Not only is that, but because they keep moving as a herd, they have to find time for there to be something for each of them to do, and every story spent on pointless bullshit just to make sure you give Chandra or Jace something to do means one less for either exploring those things or worldbuilding.
I will be damn glad for them splitting up.
>It took Bolas eight mana to destroy the Gatewatch.
Test of Metal is also nice.
Nah, she's canon dead. Not from Gerrard - she escaped that - but from Crovax fucking eating her.
But market research totally showed people liked the Gatewatch guys.
Jace should go and do his damn job being the Guildpact or whatever.
But I have to say, I'm really glad how Wizards highlighted Vraska for Ixalan instead of any of the Gatewatch. Maybe we can finally see more of the characters that don't get featured every single year. What's Sarkhan been up to? Garruk still hunting planeswalkers? How's Koth been doing on New Phyrexia? Dack didn't show up in Conspiracy 2, what's up with that? Will Sorin get un-stoned?