We all know that the decks that came with the recent Archenemy set are total shite, so what are some things we can change about them to help balance them out while making them all a little stronger (and maybe add some more theme flavor along the way)? I'm thinking of mostly scrapping the base decks entirely and rebuilding them all from the ground up. I'd like to use a nice mix of new cards from Amonkhet along with good old stuff. I want to keep the theme of red DPS deck, white defensive deck, and GU supportive deck that adds much needed card draw to the mix. We can also adjust how many of each Scheme card is used and which ones are added from past sets or dropped from this one.
What are some must haves for each deck and what numbers would you use for them? Any spicy cards that you think would make this endeavor more fun? Any suggestions are welcome.
Christopher King
What exactly is archenemy, and what is planechase?
Lucas Sanchez
>what is Google user, are you even trying? Just google "mtg archenemy" and "mtg planechase" and you'll have your answers.
Adrian Martin
No I ain't trying. I was gonna add a "I value Veeky Forums's opinion far more then google" caveat to my post but I figured that even if it wasn't implied, OP'd appreciate the bump for what will definitely be a slow thread but maybe I was wrong.
Owen Kelly
Was thinking of doing this myself but I wasnt sure where to atart. I dont quite get Wizards logic with precons, and Im mostly experienced in building comander decks where I dont worry about card counts.
When looking up cards, some notable ones to me off the top of my head were the Join Forces cards (specifically Minds Aglow and Collective Voyage) and Indentured Djinn, all of which also fit Nissas support role coincidentally. Theres probably a ton if you really sift through strings likw "each other player" or "target player's opponents" or whatever.
I was sad that the Tempting offer cycle didnt work here.
Ethan Hall
I'm OP, not that guy. All bumps are appreciated.
John Thomas
Join Forces cards are definitely going in, but the hardest time I've been having is the Bolas deck. It looks mostly like a Grixis goodstuff deck at the moment with some Bolas flavor to it. I'm including a lot of cards that reference him, but I'd like for it to be more cohesive.
Brody Evans
Archenemy is a 3 v 1 format where the single player gets a free to cast super powerful card called a scheme each turn and doubled life total to make up for it
Planechase is a multiplayer format that uses cards featuring planes from Magic which grant special effects in the game, and players can roll a dice to change planes, get extra effects based on the plane etc.
James Scott
I was kimda of struggling eith the same thing. I was sort of picking between a grixis control deck, reanimator deck, or sneak and show cheaty type deck. Reanimator type deck feels mostly Amonkhet Bolas-y but it feels too diferent and combo oriented from the precon. Was also thinking he would probably get really powerful cards like mana crypt and sol ring and such, maybe even some power cards (probably gold border or proxies) to make up for the team difference. I really dont quite have it nailed down yet.
Liam White
I think he should definitely have big, powerful spells and some good mana rocks.
Adam Lee
In terms of Amonkhet's Bolas, I'd definitely throw in Throne of the God Pharaoh and probably Shadowstorm Vizier to ping off of some older Alaran cycle stuff. His deck is definitely the best out of the ones we got in terms of flavor though, sad as it is. Cruel Ultimatum and Slave of Bolas are must-keeps though.
Jordan Foster
This is my conflict. Should it be more flavorful and thematic or should they be real decks? How do I strike that balance? This is a tough thing to design for. Its hard to imagine a Bolas deck without Ultimatum, yet its really not that good of a card, its just really fucking awesome and quintessential Bolas. I dunno man.
Christian Roberts
I say flavor first, but I'm the kind of person who runs decks entirely based on flavor and ignoring actual power, so I might just be in the wrong about this.
That said, Bolas has an absolute ton of strong stuff that fits under his flavor umbrella, and combining them into something cohesive is definitely a challenge. I kind of like the idea of a cycling-heavy deck, since both Alara and Amonkhet have it, and I can see some absolutely ridiculous combos with Vizier and Malfegor for instance.
William Wright
I like this idea, I'd like for someone to start a tappedout for it.
Jace Foster
Maybe it could be some sort of living end-ish deck. That feels super on flavor.
Hunter Moore
2x Augur of Bolas 1x Blood Tyrant 1x Disciple of Bolas 1x Grave Titan 2x Nightscape Familiar
I'd say at least these creatures.
Matthew Kelly
Honestly I figure the best deck for Bolas is literally just a Douchebag deck. Vexing Devil style stuff that offers a rock or a hard place to choose from, high damage smashers like Volcanic Burst, counterspells, everything focused around just being as mean as possible.
I'd also say he's got a good focus on Big Things. Not necessarily big spells, but stuff like Elder Mastery or Blood Tyrant, or stacking an infinite hand combo with Malfegor and Archfiend of Inifir. Bolas likes big plans with big effects.
Tyler Reed
>Bolas precon doesn't have an alt-art Dark Intimations This is a fucking travesty.
While a copy of his planeswalker card is already included, the original legendary creature might be worth including, just so the three heroes actually have to face Bolas himself multiple times.
To get some "fucking with their magic" stuff going on, might add Imp's Mischief, Soul Manipulation, and Countersquall, all of which have Bolas flavor text.
Deep Analysis (Ajani vs. Bolas), Wit's End (M13), Cruel Ultimatum (already in), Crux of Fate (FRF), and Tormenting Voice (DTK) are pretty much the only non-Bolas cards in the game that have him in the art. Okay, technically, Conflux as well, but you don't have access to green and white.
M13 also gave us a cycle of Bolas minions with ETB effects: Augur of Bolas, Disciple of Bolas, and Mindclaw Shaman.
Minions he's had over the years include: Ramses Overdark, Boris Devilboon, Rakka Mar, Malfegor, Sarkhan the Mad, and literally any version of Tezzeret.
Kevin Williams
Definitely feeling some sort of graveyard theme discard theme with tormentig voice and deep analysis + cycling cards.
Joshua Powell
The Scarab God when it comes out will help with that. As will The Locust God with the cycling.
Brandon Morris
Welcome to flavortown.
Liam Cook
You say that like I wasn't already in flavortown.
Christopher Price
arch enemy is a shit format to begin with and nicol bolas isnt worth more than 50 bucks
Isaiah Baker
Change Bolas into Tron. Switch Karn and Ugin for some number of Bolas.
Chandra becomes mono red Burn. If you're worried about it being too strong, use Lightning Strikes and similar cards instead of lightning bolts/rift bolt/lava spike.
Nissa becomes mono green Elves. Skip Craterhoof for Overwhelming Stampede.
Gideon becomes, i dunno, white weenies?
Lucas Powell
It's a fun multiplayer format and no-one is paying $50.
David Powell
for the like 40 bucks people are paying you can have a commander precon with card that are actually worth a shit that you will play more than once or twice
James Wood
I have an active group who wants to play Archenemy and we already have well-tuned Commander decks. I don't need a precon.
Liam Gutierrez
Archenemy is fun though. You make a dumb flavor deck, get some drinks, and play supervillain with your friends.
Ryder Kelly
Gideon becomes Gideon Tribal obviously.
James Morgan
The plan isn't to buy the Archenemy Bolas set. It's to make 4 decks that are in the same flavor, but decent, and then to get the Scheme cards to play it with.
Kayden Walker
Thats no fun. Theres some legitimate deckbuilding cho8xes to capitalize on here. Like mentioned Indentured Djinn. This card is horrible normally. But imagine thst you not obly draw 3 cards as well, but you actually draw 6, eith the opponent only drawing 3 still, and you still get a 4/4 flyer. Or thr included card Vision Skeins. You draw 6 cards, opponent draws 2. Those are the kinds of cards that only work in Archenemy, and they're pretty crazy there. Imagine youre mon9 red burn, but someone else is drawing you 2 or 3 cards a turn or ramping you mana, while removing the opponents threats so you can go all to the face.
Chase Johnson
>It's to make 4 decks that are in the same flavor, but decent, and then to get the Scheme cards to play it with. just use the free phone app for scheme cards then, i bet you payed 100 bucks for planechase cards too you absolute fagtron
John Rodriguez
I believe there is a card called elder mastery or some such that enchants a creature into a mini bolas. there is of course the bolas creature himself. And cards that have bolas quotes, I attribute to him. Magmaquake, countersquall, cower in fear....i think thraximunder and definately malfigor worked for him.
Samuel Richardson
No, I have the app for those. I have some leftover Schemes from the old sets that I'd like to use as well. The main thing the money is going into is the decks. I don't know why you're being so hostile.
Isaiah Gutierrez
Also Icey manipulator is in the deep analysis picture. Imps mischief, quotes him. Telepathy is a power of his of course. Omnisicence. Soul manipulation. Blood reckoning, and gem of becoming.
Oliver Taylor
He's on the new damnation.
Ayden Collins
Youre having fun wrong.
John Campbell
What do you mean my suggestions are no fun?
>Tron Bolas has replicated Urzas Mine, Tower, and Power Plant from half recovered schematics and some changes of his own and uses them to generate mass amounts of mana. Using Chromatic Star and similar minor artefacts recovered by Tezzeret on Kaladesh, he plans on funneling all that mana into himself to power his Planeswalker abilities. Eventually becoming an old-walker again (winning the game).
>Mono Red Burn Chandras abilities consist of burn, burn, and more burn. Like her, the deck will deal some amounts of damage before sputtering to a crawl without the support of her companions. The deck is flavorful, close to her lore, and good enough to guarantee around 15 points of damage.
>Elves Nissa has gathered elf forces from around the multiverse, rallying them against her draconic adversary. With the help of various druidic shamans like Llanowar Elves and Elvish Mystic, Nissa channels tons of mana and uses that to make the elves huge and overrun Bolas. She needs early assistance from Chandra and Gideon to burn or intercept early attacks from Bolas so she can draw leyline mana and set up.
>Gids Tribal Its the Gideon Jura Show. All Gideon all the time. Starring: Gideon, Gideon and Gideon. Destroy one? He comes back and keeps swinging.
Each deck is both strong and flavorful. They even have an interesting game plan, as far as the lore for each deck is concerned, and there's even a story included. How is this not fun?
Ethan Hall
See this, this here is what Archenemy is all about. It's about making dumb stories for your decks and having fun with friends. I'm not entirely sure about Tron entirely because it feels too "new" for Bolas to me, as opposed to him being an ancient ass walker using ancient ass spells. That said, I quite like your reasoning on all of them.
Dylan Butler
You can justify anything with flavor, that wasnt really the point. The issue is taking established arhetypes isnt really playing to the strength of the format. Take mono green elf Nissa for example. Tribal strategies are pretty insular and dont play well with teammates, and taking blue from her eliminates a lot of her ability to support her teammates with card draw. Thats just the easiest non jokey example since Im assumig Gideon tribal isnt a real suggestion, though Gideon's deck eill probanly end up being something like D&T since the team dynamic and colors of the three means he has to be defensive which fits him flavorfully anyway.
I assumed you made the suggestions based on what you thought would be the best existing archetypes that also kind of fit the characters, but that doesnt take advantage of the options the team mechanic gives you. Chandra will probably end up being burn though. Young Peezy etc. And imo thats the fun part of this deckbuilding excercise.
Brayden Sanchez
...the Urzatron is from Antiquities. The second set released ever, and the one right before the set Bolas premiered in.
Matthew Scott
That's all i got for my bolas themed edh. It's not super powerful, but hopefully more bolas goodness in hod. Bolas is of course all about power, so anything really powerful is sort of flavour for him.
I don't know enough about the other walkers to say what would be good for their decks.
Jace Powell
Some other cards to look at for the gatewatch are the will of the council and council's dilema cards (especially the latter holy shit), and Prosperity.
Lucas Nguyen
>cast Expropriate >guaranteed 3 extra turns and Bolas's best card fug Too bad the other Council's Dillema cards blow chunks.
Michael Williams
I know that, but I guess when I think of artifact heavy decks, it makes me think of robots, which seems more futuristic than I see bolas as. That said, it's certainly an option.
Zachary Parker
Nicol Bolas archenemy deck 4 Syphon Soul 4 Blood Tithe 4 Exsanguinate 4 Torment of Hailfire 4 Volcanic Fallout 4 Sizzle 4 Sign in Blood 4 Pyromancer Ascension 4 Breath of Malfegor bunch of swamps n mountains
Maybe a singleton Inferno for kicks, maybe drop Breath of Malfegor for Dark Ritual or something.
Scheme deck 2 Behold the Power of Destruction 2 Your Fate is Thrice Sealed 2 Plots that Span Centuries 2 Tooth, Claw and Tail 2 Your Inescapable Doom 2 All in Good Time 2 My Laughter Echoes 2 Only Blood Ends Your Nightmares 2 Power Without Equal 2 When Will You Learn?
Jonathan Jackson
this is what I worked on so far, though it's constructed closer to a wizards precon than yours and leans heavily on the cycling/discard theme Creature (18) 1x Archfiend of Ifnir 1x Architects of Will 1x Curator of Mysteries 1x Desert Cerodon 2x Flameblade Adept 2x Horror of the Broken Lands 2x Igneous Pouncer 2x Jhessian Zombies 1x Malfegor 1x Prognostic Sphinx 2x Shadowstorm Vizier 1x Sire Of Insanity 1x Tidespout Tyrant Sorcery (12) 1x Collective Brutality 2x Compulsive Research 1x Decree of Pain 1x Deep Analysis 1x Exhume 1x Faithless Looting 1x Living Death 1x Reanimate 1x Sweltering Suns 2x Tormenting Voice Enchantment (4) 1x Animate Dead 1x Drake Haven 2x Faith of the Devoted Instant (3) 2x Curtains' Call 1x Volcanic Fallout
Kayden Allen
Who cares. they changed the blocking rules so archenemy is shit now.
