Is choosing Chaos Undivided just being indecisive?

Is choosing Chaos Undivided just being indecisive?

Chaos Undivided is more than a pantheon a philosophy, it is the Eightfold Path, it is the Truth behind the curtain and the sin of knowledge, the revelation and the secret, it is many things but not a religion as we understand it. Chaos is freedom, ambition, power and glory, it is damnation but also reward, it is the moment when you break your chains, when you dispose of your humanity and when you embrace something so unfathomable that dives you insane but also ecstatic with the knowledge that your destiny is in your OWN hands.

When an enlightened one exults For Chaos! across the din of the battlefield he evokes this truth, he utters in words what his eye have seen and what his soul has felt when he opened his mind to the truth for the first time. When marching under the banner of Primordial Truth the warrior of Chaos does not favor a Exalted Power in particular way, neither he favors them all, but he is the herald of the Truth, the Truth of which destiny lies beyond the skein, the Truth that follows death, the Truth that power and ambition are rewarded, the Truth where you as an individual can become a literal god, an immortal, a being of such utter power only if you will it, only if you dare it.

Chaos Undivided is not a religion; it is a philosophy, a philosophy of the self interest, of tangible power and the shattering dread of the ultimate Truth. This philosophy teaches a human that if he is ambitious enough he would be rewarded, it teaches him that if he kills with the name of the True Gods on his lips he would catch their eye and receive their boon, it teaches him that one day he can become a demigod, a mortal no more, and all this if he only wills it and dares it.

The Primordial Truth is also the philosophy of the metaphysical, where reality and dogma shatter, a philosophy that teaches its followers that the laws of physic do not exist, that any laws are artificial, that dogma and ad a closed mind lead your soul to be shattered by the dreaded dream predators. Chaos Undivided is a philosophy that teaches you that you have a soul, teaches you that with your dreams you shape the universe and it teaches you that nothing is impossible, everything can be done if only one dreams it.

That is why a chosen one bears proudly the Star of Chaos even if he pledged his allegiance to only a variant of this philosophy, perhaps to Nurgle's teachings, it is because once you pass over the skein of reality and you see the vast landscapes of infinite possibilities nothing can ever be the same and everything becomes possible, all that is required is a simple dream.


>Though the gates that stand between the mortal world and the immortal Realm of Chaos are now closed to me, still I would rather die having glimpsed eternity than never to have stirred from the cold furrow of mortal life. I embrace death without regret as I have embraced life without fear.

Oh ok. So it's basically, how did LaVey put it, "just Ayn Rand's philosophy with ceremony and ritual added", cool.

...

Chaos Undivided includes a lot of options, since it can mean just generic Chaos, or a particular path like Those who are just indecisive end up becoming Chaos Furies when they die.

>generic Chaos

This has always been my take, too. Cult marine leaders are portrayed as power-hungry commanders who barter their souls in exchange for daemonic energies that may give them an edge in battle. But, if you're an ordinary captain out in the field doing soldier stuff, you can be named Traitorus because some Terran bean-counter sneezed. Then, not turning-in your entire company for summary execution for the sin of clerical error makes you all fugitive heretics: "chaos" marines - and still hating daemons and ruinous wossnames makes you "undivided" by default.

Enjoy watching your best TO&E evaporate!

It's been a catch-all term to pigeon-hole groups like Corsairs, Black "legion" and Thorpe's "renegade chapters" since 3rd ed.

There is also a fine line between worshiping Chaos Undivided and fucking around with worshiping Chaos. Furies, at least in the 5E codex, are those souls that were not attentive to their devotions, or worshiped Chaos Undivided because they could not decide which God they loved most, not all four equally.

If you love all four Chaos Gods equally, that's peachy, and you're on your way to slaughtering the enemies of Sigmar and the Emperor. If you're dicking around because blood makes you queasy, you don't like being sick, change makes you nervous, and you're an unmitigated prude, you're gonna have a bad time.

Daily reminder that Chaos Undivided is not a thing and all followers of Chaos worship one of the gods.

>Someone didn't played Shadow War:Armagedon

As Word Bearers prove, worshipers of Chaos Undivided are opportunistic, zealous, or insane. Probably all three.

>The Unaligned Powers And How Then Came To Be
I cant not see this send help

>not an argument
>t. goldie

chaos undivided is a thing
>t. Abbadon the Despoiler

He has the Mark of Chaos Ascendant, not Undivided.

It is still a thing, however there are no game rewards outside of special characters and daemon princes are still elevated by and devoted to one of the four gods, again unless they're a special case.

I kind of like this because it struck me as weird that all of the gods would just pour a part of their power into an average follower or would at least give them blessings on par with people devoted to them. It also similarly feels kind of stupid that your average worshiper could, if they got far enough, outsmart all of the gods to give them the benefits of daemonhood without the drawback of being turned into a slave.

Firstly: You don't remind us of this daily.
Secondly: You're wrong.

It makes perfect sense. You devote yourself to their cause (the same cause that enables all gods to come together, rather than just fight each other 24/7) and if you haven't noticed, the benefits of being an undivided prince vs. a marked one are not as good. Sure, you got independence, but you also don't have your god looking out for you, his daemons to command, nor all the cool gifts and sorceries.

So what do the gods get from this? They get an impartial medium. In the old days you couldn't mix and match marked units as you wished. You needed an undivided commander. It's easier for Khorne and Tzeentch to give command of their daemons to an undivided prince than Khorne to trust his daemons to the sorceries of Tzeentch or Tzeentch to listen to the insanity of a gloodthirster general. You have a less powerful commander in favor of a more mixed army.

I find it silly to imagine that in the history of an entire galaxy, only one person has ever managed to please the gods enough to become a prince without having to devote to one god. I don't think we should mix Undivided with Ascendant. Ascendant is basically all the gods giving you their marks with all the benefits, while retaining your independence, while Undivided is just some daemonhood crumbs that the gods drop to you from the table.

You have to remember that all gifts and daemons a god creates comes from their own power. They aren't infinite. Ascending a mortal to daemonhood also uses this power. An Undivided prince requires even less power, since they aren't marked or anything, and the power needed is divided between all 4 gods, so for each individual god the needed power is minimal, while you gain another ally to your side.

Have we forgotten so fast how GW has been removing Undivided as a thing? How Be'lakor is the first and only Undivided prince, after which the gods decided never to do that again?

Wait what happened to Lorgar?

This seems sensible to me. Although an undivided prince means each gods have less rights over them, they also have less responsibilities. So long as all four gods believe an individual would be a useful servant (as opposed to slave), which admittedly will be and should be rare, then there's no reason for them to not make one.

Retconned? Just a powerful Chaos Lord? Who knows what they'll do, but it probably won't make much sense.

Why would the gods need an impartial medium? It's more likely they would each send their own or Tzeentch would try something crafty by suggesting a prince devoted to another god.

I don't find it silly because the Chaos gods are selfish and obsessive, it's rare that they think in terms that don't immediately benefit them or which benefit them in a roundabout way. Again, Tzeentch being the most likely.

To to make you a daemon they're still instilling some power into you in return for your service. An Undivided prince can seemingly ignore said calls for service from one god if another or some combination of them stand in your way. Better to have a tool you can always rely on than one which has conditions.

I think the focus on the four gods in the codices and the idea that they rarely work together is why GW decided to curtail Undivided to being a special status. Undivided makes sense when the four gods are not the only source of daemonhood, but for the past so many years they have been. Perhaps in the future GW will once again explore the possibility of minor deities and the idea of them empowering single individuals.

Him and Perturabo and likely still Undivided because they're special cases where the gods want them on their side even if they have to share or give them independence. Lorgar I can imagine being too equally split to devote himself to one god and Perturabo not caring about worshiping any of the gods and having the willpower to ignore their enticements. It may have also been some kind of deal because they could not figure out how to split the two with the death of Curze and Alpharius either being dead or also denying daemonhood.

Daemon Princes are not slaves. They are willingly servants.

And only Be'lakor is powerful enough not to have a single master making him the only Undivided daemon in existence.

>Him and Perturabo and likely still Undivided because they're special cases where the gods want them on their side even if they have to share or give them independence. Lorgar I can imagine being too equally split to devote himself to one god and Perturabo not caring about worshiping any of the gods and having the willpower to ignore their enticements. It may have also been some kind of deal because they could not figure out how to split the two with the death of Curze and Alpharius either being dead or also denying daemonhood.

No.

see Carry this to your mind.

ONLY BE'LAKOR IS DIFFERENT IN THE DAEMONIC PRICESSDOM BROTHERHOOD. BEING THE ONLY DAEMON PRINCE POWERFUL ENOUGH TO NOT HAVE A SINGLE MASTER.

Lorgar and Perturabo are not Undivided. Drop it. This is 8th ED lore. Go away. Don't try to ruin the Dark Master's lore.

>Why would the gods need an impartial medium?

Why would Khorne gives his daemons to be bossed around by Slaanesh? Why would Nurgle allow his hordes to follow Tzeentch's lead?

>It's more likely they would each send their own

So there's many generals with no power over one another?

>it's rare that they think in terms that don't immediately benefit them or which benefit them in a roundabout way.

And Chaos winning a conflict with good leadership and as little infighting as possible is something that would benefit a god.

>Better to have a tool you can always rely on than one which has conditions.

But if nobody wants to play with them, what then? You take your prince and go home? Trust their prince who only answers to them and not to you?

>Undivided makes sense when the four gods are not the only source of daemonhood

But even an Undivided prince is powered by the gods, not some other power.

>willing servants
>"retains at least an echo of their former autonomy"

>Dark Master's lore.

Think you mean his grave.

>serving the Chaos Gods because they wish rather than because it is utterly intrinsic to their existences

Funny how you didn't read that.

It's funny how you ignored all previous mentions of rebellious daemon princes.

What's your agenda? First you want to ruin Be'lakor's lore by destroying what makes him unique and now you want to ruin all daemon princes lore?

We established it was not him and that Be'lakor is the most awesome character in Chaos (second maybe only to Archaon). But keep doing what you do. You can't stop what's to come when Be'lakor will dominate 40K's lore like he did in fantasy.

All will bow before the Dark Master of Chaos!

Go home, carnac, nobody loves you.

He worshipped The Emperor

But I love you and that's enough

The thing I like about Chaos Undivided is the freedom aspect behind it. The idea of using Chaos for your own gain in a I scratch your back you scratch mine. And due to the nature of Chaos, it makes the character that follows through on this that much more badass because he doesn't kneel before the chaos gods whim, just viewing them as his peers. See Archaon for the best example of Chaos Undivided there is

I will never understand Chaos Undivided. Why would 2 chaos gods that hate each other bestow their gifts upon the same dude, even though they know he also worships the other one?

It could be anything.
There are dozens of ways to serve/worship/use Undivided. being undecided is one of them, but most popular is bein uncaring of gods and valuing own freedom.

I've always figured that the Chaos Gods operate on a more primal unsentient level. As forces of nature more than 4 dudes who quarrel.

>Chaos
>Indecisive
That's missing the point of Chaos. Undivided is choosing them all with mostly equal passion.

One has to understand the difference between Chaos Unaligned and Chaos Undivided.

Chaos Unaligned are the Ones that use Chaos as a resource to empower themselves. The Iron Warriors for example.

Chaos Undivided is the true worship of Chaos. It's like the worship of Azathoth.

Source on Chaos Unaligned? Because that sounds like my jam

I think to become a Daemon Prince of Chaos it is necessary to understand the nature of the Empyrean. A dark reflection of the buddhist enlightment.

...

Because the enemy of your enemy is your friend. The gods might hate each other, but they want to rule over mortals even more, so if that means being nice to one another for a second, fine.

Nah. It's honoring all of them, including the lesser gods, as part of a pantheon. Like most polytheistic cultures, it's possibly to see all of the gods as important and ask different ones for help at different times.
It used to be, Chaos Undivided was the alignment of strong willed leaders who can bind servants of all the other gods together for a greater purpose. Dedicating yourself to one god makes it easier to become more powerful, but it also tends to drive you nuts and take over your personality. Staving off the pull of the different gods means retaining more of your own will.

>I can feel the Nirvana overtaking me... It is a good enlightenment!

Bump