/40kg/ Warhammer 40k General

Everyone of them gets killed off before then?

Hey I'm a new player and I just got start with the Tzeentch daemons start collecting box. Can anyone help me understand how the chariot works with its blue horrors wargear option? blue horrors arent mentioned anywhere but in the units section so I'm pretty lost.

>expecting artists who snort resin dust all day to be competent rules writers

Toppest of keks

frontlinegaming.org/2017/06/18/making-the-case-for-using-power-level-points-in-tournaments/

>Power Levels allow players to choose each game what those units will and won’t have. By freeing the players from the confines of the minutiae of a detailed item by item list, we introduce a more flexible and therefore competitive environment. Allowing players to use the best weapons options on their units for the given game they are playing will move us away from list building being one of the most important parts of the game and move towards player skill and choices in game being the most important.

Do you agree?

If your army includes a Burning Chariot and Blue Horrors, your opponent must subtract 1 from any Psychic Tests made within 9" of either the Burning Chariot or the Blue Horrors.

Makes the game pay2win as fuck.

It looks like you can make it form a unit rather than a single model. You pay the points for the horrors if you want them.

I was reluctant about primaris, so Im covenrting them as deathwatch guards for my Inquisitor by simply changing their heads.
The result is incredibly better.
I guess im just too much of a nostalgiafag fpor old beakies/skullfaces.

How is it pay to win? All the options for your model are included in the box.

Do you know what "pay2win" even means?

Got pics? Haven't seen any head swaps with beakies, it didn't look like they'd fit from the few conversions we've seen online.

as someone that enjoys the convenience of Power Levels once in a while i find their argument dumb as balls

All the options very much aren't

>This creates a tactical/strategic flexibility in the game that is more akin to what you find in Magic the Gathering and in Warmahordes where each player is allowed a sideboard of a certain number of points so their list can be tailored game-to-game to help mitigate the rock/paper/scissors syndrome. For quite some time, the 40k community has discussed how to mitigate the hard-counter nature of competitive lists, and GW has given us one.

But are power points as a soft-sideboard better for the game? Or should people just make all-comers lists and get stomped by the first specialist army they run into?

It may nboit be too bad.
That, or a complete clusterfuck.
I like the idea you choose the miniatures on their strategic value(aka you have a tactical value on taking different kataphron breachers instead of simply the strongest one point/value).

Or, again, it may end horribly.
Only time will tell.
Ill make pics later, so far I tried only with skullfaces and they look a lot better ihmo.

Pay to win? What?

Power levels means all the wargear in the squad is 'free'. You still pay for a unit as much as the next guy.

How is that Pay2Win?

Its just that the model comes with 3 blues that go on the chariot. So do they add wounds to the chariot? Can they be targeted/die?
But yeah thanks for explaining
>your opponent must subtract 1 from any Psychic Tests made within 9" of either the Burning Chariot or the Blue Horrors.
This part.

Most Chaos Daemons are list as having wargear already paid for actually.

Sounds like a bunch of bullshit.
Some armies really cheese out power, while others get fucked in it, by respect of having next to zero options.
And I hated playing people who look at an army, and suddenly all that grav became flamers, or vis versa.

warhammer-community.com/2017/06/27/birthday-battle-brothergw-homepage-post-4/

>This Primaris Space Marine Captain will be available to pick up or order at store anniversaries from this July.

>This captain will be available the world over, wherever there’s a Warhammer or Games Workshop store, and because these will be available for a whole year, everyone will have a chance to get their hands on one.

Also has the rules for him included apparently.

The person with more money can afford more options for his squads.

They get upgraded to Primaris versions?

Did FW not give a shit about their rules because FW won't be allowable in tournaments?

> it could end well
> or it could not
No shit. Why even post.

>the person with more money

If you can't afford a $15 of tiny magnets you shouldn't be playing 40k

> not fucking warhammer world exclusive
About fucking time

The points he makes about tournament organizing are very true.

As a TO I don't like having to check over the minutiae 32+ players lists and ensure they are all totally legal. Some people are actively trying to cheat and others are just making mistakes because they're new to 40k.

I would prefer points if GW put out an official list builder. Power is definitely easier.

My experience with power has shown me that some armies can get a lot of free upgrades (Tau) and other armies just get more models (Genestealers, Grey Knights) and others are almost exactly at the 20:1 ratio (Tyranids).

Which armies are just bad in a Power format? Deathwatch?

Not every kit comes with enough weapons to fit out every permutation.

Because if your not magnetising all your minis then you're pretty fucked in terms of options unless you buy moar bawkses of army men

What

Not even slightly, people will do nothing but cram as many points into as little power as possible. Power actively discourages experimenting with gear as anything less than the best is bad. 10 naked nobz and 10 buzzsaw kombi skorcha nobs both cost 20 power (about 400 pts) but they cost 170 and 640 pts respectively. You will see nothing but BSKS nob equivalents.

It does with Rubric Marines which are one of the most absurd version of power level.

10 rubric marines with vanilla aspiring sorcerer is 223 points.

10 rubric marines with max upgrades (which are on sprue) is 355

Same power level, difference of 132 points.

GW kits quite frequently don't come with every option you could take on them

Okay but name one unit that doesn't have the most powerful wargear option already in the box.

Its not always about most powerful. Having the flexibility to tailor your wargear as you please is very strong.

Such as?

I'm not shitposting, I am new to 40k and want to know more

and both are an overpriced turd

Yeah but that applies to points too. Nothing says you can't swap out units and options for an equal amount of points.

stupid as shit
no one will take flexible armies based on what they're facing, they'll spam the best weapons they can get for the power
even if that were true, now you have players needing to bring a shit load of different weapons, either magnetized or separate models, in order to swap things out
the notion that power level could be used for a tournament is retarded as shit, and makes me angry that GW even included them at all, there's no good reason for power level to even exist in the first place

A 5 man nob kit comes with 1 kombi skorcha and 1 buzzsaw. If you want 10 BSKS nobz you need to buy 10 25 euro boxes.

No tournament I've been to let you lets you swap and even then it would be really tricky to do so.

It's a lot harder to swap wargear with points, especially when some upgrades are 50+ points.

this issue is already largely mitigated by the changes to the core rules in 8e
get some games under your belt before you say more, hard counters don't really exist anymore

First one that come to mind is the Hive tyrant

It's either a massive, unplayable WYSIWYG clusterfuck or it just means that the vast majority of players get fucked over since they don't have every conceivable load-out modeled.

Power points are also significantly less balanced than true point.

standard guard come only with flamers and grande launchers, but they can take plasma and melta which don't come in the box

also there are no non-fw guardsmen with shotguns despite it being an option for guard vets

>there's no good reason for power level to even exist in the first place
If you actually believe this, you are denser than I had even dared to imagine.
Power levels were created to facilitate pick up games between new opponents that could easily encompass any model load out that was on hand.

Well, realistically it's 5 Ws 3+ attack, he will be attracting some serious fire.

> BOOOO WOOO it harder for us to check lists- it takes longer time!
Bitch you are making money off each and every ticket sold. When you are making a BUSINESS out of this shit, put in the time to hard sure the lists are legit. When i am paying what YOU ask for, for a product, I Give zero shits what you did or didn't do to produce it. You set the price.

*grenade

See

It's a crutch to save children and retards some time. Anyone who plays this game already has lists written. There's no reason for power level to exist, and it was a huge mistake to introduce it. Just look at the shitposting it's spawned here, now extrapolate that to the entire 40k community.

Nah, they launch shitty coffee

I dont know what bits sellers are: the post

Thee old winged Dakkatyrant build with devourers and grubs is not quite what it used to be. Losing twinlinked hurts, S6 (or 7 if you take Deathspitters) only wounding T4 on 3+ hurts, and losing all semblance of meaningful close combat ability when taking nothing but guns hurts. It's not *bad* as such; 12 S7 shots hitting on 3+ at 18" and -1AP will still tickle most units and put some hurt on lighter vehicles but it's an expensive vector for "not bad"

In general, a balanced loadout with one close combat and one ranged option looks to be the early approach on how to build a Tyrant. Adrenal Glands for advance and charge bonuses is a must, Toxin Sacs synergise nicely with Monstrous Rending Claws which are a free and effective close combat option, and a pair of Deathspitters with Slimer worms is probably the best of a bad bunch in terms of ranged options given there's no benefit in taking another melee weapon.

>player skill
>what unit do I shoot first the game

threadly reminder

>As a TO I don't like having to check over the minutiae 32+ players lists and ensure they are all totally legal. Some people are actively trying to cheat and others are just making mistakes because they're new to 40k.

If you are doing this, you are making your life crap for no reason.

As a TO, you don't check all list.

If a player requires a list check of the opponent, you perform one.

At the end of the tournament, you list check anyone who got into a prize placement.

>I'll just pretend the game involves zero skill to excuse the fact that I lose all the time!
did it work? do you feel better about being bad?

Not everyone is a high level autist like us on /tg user, if you cant understand that some people can find the ease of playing power refreshing then you really are dense.

Bolter Rubricae aren't too bad, but Flamer Rubricae aren't durable enough for the cost. Sure, anything that gets hit by nine Warpflamers is gonna hurt, but good luck getting them all that close.

>i have never run a tournament in my life, but Ill shitpost about it anyway!

>children and retards

Oh not you again

You and your special brand of autism can objectively and factually fuck right off

...

...

I think you should die, and im not even joking.
i really think it.
Power points are amazing for everything but topurnaments, and fail only when confronting WAACs and tryhards as you, which are the cancer killing 40k.

please contemplate suicide.

>40k should be like MTG where only retarded noobs use the primary market and everyone else buys parts individually online
Nopenopenopenope
Tournament structure actively encouraging people to just buy buckets of parts online would be the worst thing to happen to the hobby. Bitz sellers ATM are a small business that's not for everyone, do you want gw to take a leaf out of Hasbro's book and start only including 1 of each weapon option in each kit, to "foster a healthy secondary market" where a warpflamer costs a tenner?
Seriously, imagine if every customisable elite kit was like the nob kit. Buy a 3 man crisis suit kit and get 1 flamer, 1 plasma rifle, 1 missile launcher, etc. Buy 10 rubrics and get 1 warpflamer. Oh you wanted ten? Better buy them online!
A secondary market like that fucking ruins list building. We don't need to encourage that shite. All kits should have enough parts that any configuration should be mostly possible, and any that aren't should be very expensive or impractical.

Its more about the fact that the hivetyrant kit it self is pretty poorly designed imo. With the flying variant you can't even do lashwhip bone sword/s and 2 devouer/deathspitter combo. Not toention it doesnt even come with the rending claws option which is pretty greatvthis edition
>new flying HT kit when?

this is perfect.
Power points are the patrician way to play.
never had any problem with balance so far, mostly because all player i play with aren't total assholes.

Their conclusions about power points being a good idea are retarded and would make competitive play even more of a nightmare. That said, their complaints about regular points are valid. The new point system is incredibly shitty and feels tacked on.

That would be fine if the power levels werent totally unbalanced.

I have 20 SM dudes with 20 of each arms magnetised for power sword, axe, thunder hammer, storm shield, plasma pistol, bolt pistol, bolt gun.

Remember, that's 160 shoulder pads too.
SW Wolf Guard can take pretty much anything on each model.

This was NOT cheap to do. If I could swap them on the fly between tournament games, it would be ridiculously in my favour.

Point lists for tournaments are much more balanced and sensible.

This is bullshit because it hamstrings many armies (those with specialist units with set wargear) and advantages armies with more flexible units.

Imagine - my ig command squad one game can have 4 meltas, next game have 4 flamers, next game have 4 plasmas.

If I were Eldar, if I picked Fire Dragons, I wouldn't be able to switch to Dark Reapers or Swooping hawks if I wanted to - unlike a Space Marine Dev squad which can shift from multimeltas,plasma cannons, lascannons or heavy bolters.

If they want a sideboard, then make it a fucking sideboard.

They are not conclusions, they are merely a series of arguments in favour of one position

Learn the difference friend

dumb as fuck
it does the exact opposite of providing a flexible environment as in a competitive environment there is literally no reason not to max out everything when using power levels, invalidating any lower tier option for units
power levels only work when operating under a gentlemans agreement

>132 points difference
That's cute.

A naked Nob mob costs around 170ish points.

Kit every single Nob out with combiweapons, cybork bodies and power klaws and the whole mob becomes around 700 points.

Same power level.

>play tau
>power points in tournaments
>mfw every single model can swap its loadout on the fly
>conscripts get fried by flamer everywhere
>armour spam gets fucked by melta everywhere
>Tau are back to being kings of 8th
>mfw

Who run ever run a naked Nob?

Do you know what the summation of an argument is, shitposter-kun? A conclusion.

Shit, you couldn't even pretend to defend their bullshit.

>no one will take flexible armies based on what they're facing, they'll spam the best weapons they can get for the power

So, I'm a SM player with several devastator squads.

If my opponent's list has a lot of infantry, they get heavy bolters. MEQ? plasma cannons. Vehicles? Lascannons.

This makes flexible armies artificially better.

Which, we both agree on, is bad in a tournament setting.

Your mum ran my naked nob very nicely

>mostly because all player i play with aren't total assholes
this, but in tournaments power is stupid, mainly because tournament players are WAAC assholes

>Chaos Lord on Bike
>Faction Keywords: Chaos, Nurgle, Heretic Astartes, Death Guard

>Chaos Bikers
>Faction Keywords: Chaos, Nurgle, Heretic Astartes, Death Guard

Wouldnt WAACfags like power more? It gives you more freedom in how you kit out your units

>Play tau

dont get it
>tfw no more T6 bikers

...

>yfw when every game the tau player swaps out his magnetised weapons for the perfect counter to whatever you are bringing
10/10 would play a power points tournament

>taunigger is a TTSfag
Pottery

If you're a true WAAC it gives you less freedom because once you dont have to pay for upgrades it only becomes acceptable to take the best upgrades.

Page 57, under Forces of the Death Guard.
Yes, power is the WAAC/dedicated tournament player preference. It rewards buying multiples of the same power units so that you can have every possible load-out modeled. A casual player will buy one of a unit, assemble it how he likes, and then buy some other unit. The casual player gets turbofucked by going to power points.

r8. I can replace the scouts and devs with helblasters.