I've heard a lot of people call ol' Mort a racist, an idiot, a hypocrite etc. those that do like him tend to like him because he's the grim reaper and that's it. However, I think if you actually look at the man, you see something else. Mortarion hated psychers. For this he's been called a bigot, which isn't fair. Hating someone based on the color of their skin or that type of shit is stupid and bigoted. But having a distrust of a group of people who can shoot lightening from their hands and (in the case of mortarion's first encounter with a psycher, his adopted father on barbarus) can raise the dead isn't that strange. Mortarion grew up in what I believe was the harshest environment of any primarch. Sure curze had to hear a rape/murder every night, but he wasn't used as plaything by an abusive psycher and made to watch as beings he came to realize were his species where murdered and experimented upon. Unlike angron and curze, he had father figure, one who abused him. Anyone that has been in an abusive household or relationship knows how horrifying it can be. He grew to hate his father. His father the psycher, his father the tyrant. And so he ran away, ran away from the only home he'd ever known. He found people like himself. He became their guardian, their protector. He loved them and they loved him. He waged war against the tyrant without psychic powers and was winning. And then the emperor came. A tyrant and a psycher who stole his revenge and forced him into back into a near identical situation as the one he'd just escaped. I think it's pretty understandable why he turned to chaos
Doesn't deserve the hate
He was a smelly fart who deserved to be locked in a car on a hot summer day
>And then the emperor came. A tyrant and a psycher who stole his revenge and forced him into back into a near identical situation as the one he'd just escaped. I think it's pretty understandable why he turned to chaos
You ARE aware that
A) Mort didn't want to join Chaos, was horrified when he finally figured out what he got himself into, tried to get out and ultimately had to be tortured into servitude by Nurge
and
B) In his last moments of agony before he finally succumbed, he realized he was in the exact same situation like on Barbarus long ago, that he was gonna fail and falter again when the stakes were highest, only this time his father wasn't going to come to his rescue?
this . Mortarion hated anything to do with the warp, if he was stronger he would have killed himself and his legion to deny nurgle victory.
Can I have a tldr; about Morty and his boys? Im not sure on the specifics of his betrayal, but I dont know why exactly he became a nurgle daemon prince and stuff.
I'll give it to you in a sec. Do you want me to start from the beginning or some specific time?
Beginning would be great, thanks
You know how Erebus and Kor Phaeron were basically Chaos agents who turned Lorgar and the Word Bearers to chaos. The Death Guard basically had their own version who was first capitalist Typhon. He was latent psycher who was descended from Barbarus' nobility, like Mortarians adoptive father. He was basically a Nurgle from the start and managed to scheme his way up the legion hierarchy until he was Mortarians chief lieutenant and advisor. He plotted the Death Guards fall to chaos underneath Mortarians nose. He eventually executed this by convincing that it would be a good idea to kill all the legions astropaths as they were about to journey through the warp. The Death Guard fleet is essentially blind and is taken by Nurgle who unleashes diseases that force Mortarian and his legion to succumb and pledge themselves to his service so as to escape the agony.
You know who my favorite Traitor Primarch is? Lorgar. That dude had a great character arc, and tried to be a bro to anyone down with the Truth. He even got Angron to like him, and Angron hates everybody!
Did Mortarian even have any friends?
>first capitalist
lol
Lorgar is by far the worst Primarch, and Angron isn't far behind.
I believe this is obligatory.
Horus. While Mortarian wasn't Horus' best friend, Horus was Mortarians. He fought alongside with him all throughout the Heresy and a big part of the reason why he joined was because Horus was the guy leading it.
Meant for
Senpai was his friend I believe
Being friends with your boss is kind of like being friends with the teacher, though. Poor guy.
Well they are brothers
Curze's story remains one of the biggest plotholes in the lore.
>lol i have perfect precog that my father, the greatest entity in the setting, apparently doesn't
>lol i can't read my son's mind and see all of these horrific visions he keeps having
>lol i'm gonna let him suffer instead of easily helping him with my power and knowledge
Worst at what? If you're saying Lorgar had poor characterization, you haven't read The First Heretic, cause that shit was superb.
Worst at being a Primarch? Almost definitely. He actively disliked warfare, and not in a "Fight so we may one day find peace" way like Ferrus Manus or Guilliman or whatever. In a legitimate " I just wanted to be a dentist" sort of way. I'd say he gets points just for how unique he is from his brothers in that regard.
What's your position for him being shit?
Well sure, but only in name, really. They weren't raised together. Any familial connection is something they'd have to actively try at. I wonder to what extent Horus' found common ground with Mortarion on anything, anyhow.
They both had some issues with the Emperor
I don't know. I think that Curzes only friend was Fulgrim who he revealed his visions to.
Lorgar was pretty useless for most of the crusade until he joined the rebellion. Emperor's laws restrained his psychic might and once he was free from them he was able to tap into the power of the warp and realize his potential. People that talk shit about Lorgar just didn't read anything past wiki pages or first couple of books. Mortarion had the same problem except he also hated himself his own psychic potential because of his upbringing.
>Primarch gets outplayed by some goof.
HH really did shit all over the fluff didn't it. Relegating Primarchs to being retarded brats instead of superhuman leaders.
Except Typhon repeatedly tried to suppress his 'gifts' in order to be the lieutenant Morty wanted him to be. Even if it drove him totally bug-fuck crazy in the process. If Morty's a victim in this story then so is Callus Typhon.
>you haven't read The First Heretic
I have.
>cause that shit was superb
It was.
>What's your position for him being shit?
He's incredibly spineless. His entire argument, stance, and beliefs are so transparent if you just take a moment to look at what is shown to you. He's someone who cannot take responsibility for his own actions or his own destiny into his hands. He NEEDS to be somebody's bitch, for two reasons. First, because then he doesn't have to think or dream for himself, all he has to do is sing praises and build monuments to another. Two, it exempts him from any and all responsibility for his actions, since, after all, he's acting on behalf of ''The Truth'', he has the Word of God on his side and everything he does is holy and must be done. It's disgusting, seeing all of his insecurity and desperate need to be given purpose by something, ANYTHING, to be told what to do and have carte blanche to do anything on behalf of that. Remember when he discovered Chaos on Cadia? How he went ''Oh, i'm so sad and distressed that we found all of this torture, sacrifice and horror, but whelp! That's the truth boys, whatcha gonna do?''. Or when Argel and Xaphen talked about it later, and wondered if he was gonna send them in The Eye, and said ''It'll break his heart, but he'll do it''. That's what Lorgar is, ''Oh, i'm so sorry, i don't wanna do this, but i have to, this is the Truth'' Disgusting. Absolutely wretched. Of course, his ''Truth'' is nothing but lies, parasites pretending to be gods used him who was all to eager to be used, and here we are.
I don't understand why people find him so appealing. Reading The First Heretic made me hate him even more. He's a weakling and a wretch who sold his soul because he couldn't bear the thought of it being his to do as he sees fit.
Power has nothing to do with him being shit. Also
>unleash muh psychic potential
>get absolutely destroyed by based Corvus
Lmao @ Lorgar's ''life''
I disagree. Logar got censured for getting the people he conquered to worship the Emperor. His expiditionary fleets were slower than most because he didn't just show up, kick over the ant-heap and then bugger off to the next system, leaving the Army to sort out the mess like most of his brothers did. The planets he conquered would have been the most loyal in the Imperium, but Emps wanted speed and quantity over steady quality.
If you are referring to their battle on Istvaan, Lorgar still wasn't using the power he had. This is exactly what I was referring to when I said people that talk shit about him didn't read anything past first books/wiki summary.
At least read Betrayer and educate yourself moron.
>i hate tyrannical psykers so much I'm going to join the faction with the most tyrannical psykers around!
yeah nah, Mort is a fucktard.
That sounds more like Emperor's problem. Especially since a lot of the worlds conquered by other legions had insurrections and Lorgar's approach didn't leave that chance since the population was fully converted in addition to being subjugated to imperial law.
This the main fault of the emperor: he didn't use his primarchs to their strength, shackled their powers and just expected uniformity.
Calm down, Lorgar.
>implying anyone in Warhammer has his soul to do as he sees fit
Somebody else already owns it and controls what you see fit to do. Enlightement was wrong.
If the gods are free, strive to be a god.
It sounds like it was Emp's problem because it WAS Emp's problem. Of course Logar then went full-retard, but NOBODY in the Monarchia story comes out looking good. Not Logar, Not Emps and not Rowboat
While he wasn't his BEST friend, they were close enough that Horus wept and cradled his brother's body when he got shot - I've got the quote, I'm just looking for the source
1) They aren't free. 2) This implies that you can achieve that and remain yourself.
If you can't be free and remain yourself, stop being yourself.
The Emperor could easily have been a god, but insisted otherwise. Look how THAT ended.
>implying his good sons wouldn't have a problem with daddy being a tyrant god
>some years after Monarchia pass
>Lorgar realizes Emperor is a dumb cunt
>starts using his power
>starts to truly understand the universe
>makes Rawbootay pay twice over
>subverts Emperor's work and makes his Imperium into what the Emperor always hated
>ascends into godhood while the Emperor is mostly dead and in eternal agony on his throne
>yfw Lorgar won while the Imperium failed and made everyone pay
but nice meme image friendo :^)
Mortal souls are technically free. I mean, eldar aside.
>Emperor is a dumb cunt
>''Son, don't be a cuck, be proud of who you are, you don't need no god lording over you'' is being dumb
This is why you suck, Lorgar.
>>starts to truly understand the universe
Lorgar's understanding of the universe is literally the worst in the setting.
>>makes Rawbootay pay twice over
>gets his ass kicked with Angron backing him
>>subverts Emperor's work and makes his Imperium into what the Emperor always hated
>completely cheated by Chaos Gods in everything he believed in
>>ascends into godhood
Loses his soul and becomes a complete pawn.
>>yfw Lorgar won
An eternal pawn of uncaring parasites that's being fed static by Tzeentch so he doesn't realize they lied to him about EVERYTHING. Yup, sounds like what he always wanted.
>but nice meme image friendo :^)
Tnx.
Difference between joining chaos and joining the traitors.... EX: Konrad
I think most people probably just sympathize with the idea of having a crisis of faith, even if it's not religious faith, at some point in their life, and especially cases where they put their faith in someone that really wasn't trustworthy.
The fact that his subservience to a higher power actually results in him taking greater personal agency for himself also helps to make his overwhelming desire to be somebody's bitch actually seem kind of admirable, in a really fucked up sort of way. Like, shit, he can't do anything for his own reasons, but damn is he able to get results when he sets his mind on who he ought to follow.
I see your point. I just can't stand that he betrayed someone who meant him well just because he refused an arbitrary title.
>hating a group because they tend to cause trouble is ok even though some don't
You either get to hate psykers and black people, or neither.
>you can't hate certain distinct parts of a group, it's either all in or nothing
When everyone starts differentiating decent, hard working black people from ghetto thugs, racism will finally disappear.
Same thing for normal psykers and reckless ones/chaos worshipers.
>Spineless
LMAO. Lorgar spent forty years secretly preaching a Truth that, if discovered, would have seen him and all his sons mercilessly put to the sword. After the secrecy was cast off he threw himself into the forefront of the war, charging into a battle with Corax he knew he couldn't win for the sake of his sons. Throughout seven years of bitter, fratricidal, unremitting warfare Lorgar fought on against tremendous odds, until the day he joined the attack on Terra. It was only when Horus perished and all hope of victory was lost that he retreated, and he never once wavered in his convictions. For his actions on behalf of the Truth he was rewarded with immortality, while his shitty dad proved weaker than the lowliest of daemons (a fucking Nurgling would have regenerated its body and hopped off the throne by now).
>decent, hard working black people
No such thing exists. Blacks are shit-tier people in North America, South America, Europe, and back home in Africa too.
God I hate /pol/
Prove me wrong.
You can't.
I feel like the 'Ordering a planet you put your heart and soul in to producing and came to love like a second home be reduced to little more than smoldering ashes' bit was a significant contributing factor to his fall. Even if not viewing the Emperor as a God is what the argument was over to begin with, I think destroying that planet was the catalyst for Lorgar going absolutely fucking insane about it.
I think Gulliman sums up Lorgar pretty well.
>"He is so... changeable. He is so prone to extremes. Eager to please, so quick to take offense. He's so keen to be your best friend, and then, at the slightest hint of an insult, he's angry with you. Furious. Offended. Like a child."
It's not a plothole if you accept that the Emperor is apparently the worst person in all of history.
(For the record, I'm pretty sure that sentence is what will eventually be on the Horus Heresy's tombstone.)
>Hating someone based on the color of their skin or that type of shit is stupid and bigoted