Starfinder General /sfg/
Starship edition
How do you feel about Paizo not trusting players to intelligently spend wealth and thus entirely removing starships from the economy? Are you upset by the fact that you can't buy ships, sell ships, or even scavenge enemy ships for spare parts?
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It is a little upsetting. Especially considering you would have a party to pool funds for or what ever. I mean I guess it is cool everyone gets their own ship?
Given their reasoning, I'm okay with it.
That...is depressing, yes. Where is their reasoning?
For what it's worth I would still give players the option to do those things regardless. If anything it would simplify a lot of stuff so I can focus on selling specific stuff instead or if they have too much money manage it with maintence/hanger fees.
It's a pretty fun and intuitive thing to remove from a space game and it will very likely be ignored and homebrewed in from day 1.
There were two sets
1. That people would spend money on their ship but fail to properly equip the PC.
1b. The reverse of above
2. That after the PCs go a long time without needing a Space ship and level up a lot, they're suddenly under equipped for level appropriate challenges
>The interesting thing about having personal and starship economies using the same currency is that it leads to big traps for the PCs: If you overspend on personal, your ship is too weak, and if you overspend on the ship, your PC is too weak. For a time, we had two economies to handle items and ship upgrades: Basically credits would handle personal upgrades but you could scavenge enemy ships for parts to upgrade your ship, with a poor exchange rate between them to discourage the trap of overspending on one. What was in some ways a blessing (the more you like spaceship fights, the more you upgrade your spaceship) proved to be a curse when it came to using ships periodically after a long period of not using them and thus falling behind on upgrades, so the new system of upgrading over the course of leveling as part of what the PCs do during downtime automatically was born, with a similar track to the second economy but gained by level instead. It wouldn't be too hard to kitbash something like the old system where you don't get those points by level and have to earn them via ship fights or credits for any group that was interested, but beware the trap I mentioned above if you do!
Nevermind, found it.
WHELP. Guess who's going to roll up a space pirate and just steal the damn ship I want instead.
That's right. This fag right here.
I get their reasoning, but to be honest I still wish they had put these things in as optional rule sets (both cybernetics and ships as things you can buy and sell). They could have done that instead of a full chapter that's apparently going to amount to "Please don't try to convert PF classes to SF."
While I am disappointed, I actually think they made the right choice. No system is better than a bad system, especially if you're going to deal with people coming from Pathfinder.
On top of that, you know people are gonna steal the system from Star Wars and other similar systems and post them as PDFs. We can offer them to people and give the dis/ advantages of each and let them make a better choice
Huh, think I found some art for that character, too. She just wanted to buy a starship so that she could go home, but no one would sell her one, and she got sick of waiting for a flight home. So she stole one.
Damnit forgot the art.
>so a bunch of thieves break into the SAME ship
>Before they could stab each other, the alarms go off
>the ship crew rushes in, looking like they've seen the Reaper itself and just turn on the ship
>session 1 start
...
So why not just have two resources? One is your credit income that you need to upkeep your ship, and the other is your credits at hand that you can buy equipment that doesn't need income.
Or... even better... how about removing the equipment treadmill instead, so you don't HAVE to spend money to keep being equipped and don't fall into the trap of not having enough equipment?
I kinda like the idea of having to manage your ship and your gear. Kinda feels like Firefly and how they have to work for to get fuel, ammo and food but the ship needs repairs too.
>"There's lots of queer stuff in Starfinder, don't worry"
KEKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK
>"There's lots of queer stuff in Starfinder, don't worry"
Source?
Extremely fine.
It's better to have a ship at the start.
Besides, players and DM can customize it, isn't it?
The ship scales with party level.
You can't buy parts to customise it, instead you get abstract points for that every level.
I believe so, but the point is that you can't do shiplike things with it.
You can't scavenge for parts, you can't buy upgrades, you can't ditch your little spacedingy for the pirate cruiser you boarded.
It's tied to your level, and heck with you if you want to do otherwise.
That's the worst fucking thing I've ever heard. I fucking love watching paizo burn
Ok, that have be because unlike Star Wars, you need to keep up with equipment grinding in order to succeed?
But admittedly, it's kind of unfun.
It's also total nonsense. You literally can't capture better ships than your own, which is a very iconic trope.
Well, that's a bit of an overreaction, I think. Just like in PF, you COULD get an artifact as a level 1 guy, it'd just break the WBL guidelines and the math of the game, but it's not like the gameplay itself would stop functioning.
You literally can't ever capture/buy/sell/scavenge ships. Not even at level 20.
The party's ship straight up scales with APL and you can't do anything about it. You can't invest in your ship, you can't upgrade it with scavenged parts, you can't replace it with an enemy ship you captured.
...
Great, isn't it? Can't wait for the weeks upon weeks of mass effect androgynous style shitposting as soon as people start leaking pictures of the "writing".
It's going to be fucking amazing.
Why? Does the enemy ship have stats? Yes? Then you can replace it.
Just estimate a level for it, and don't get any upgrade points until the players catch up.
Scavenging is a different matter but that's easily rolled into the upgrades you get on levelup.
I mean, it's a shit system but it doesn't sound as disastrous.
>there's no problem because you can always homebrew solutions!
Fuck off, that attitude is cancer.
>already doing damage control for a fucking retarded system that literally replaces roleplaying with a retarded meta mechanic
Paizo faggots never change, just keep queering up your world!
That's not even a fucking homebrew.
"You capture a ship, great, you use that ship from now".
There was nothing needed to be homebrewed.
You know, at the very start, when the first hints of the rule changes were getting revealed I though "Wow, maybe Pazio learned something of 10 years of the Pathfinder shitshow and maybe figured out how to not be retarded."
And then every reveal since has shown that to not be the case. Cringe upon cringe upon questionable rulings upon downright shit rule ideas.
It's literally a houserule, m8.
What?
Being able to pick up a higher level weapon or ship is a houserule?
Is there a rule saying that if you step on the deck of another ship the control panels explode?
No?
Then it's not a houserule.
Your ship is just another character. It's your character for the space part of the game.
Basically it's like a PF wizard not being allowed to steal the spell book of a powerful NPC and instantly be able to cast all spells in it including those well above his level.
The rules are that the party has a single ship that is rigidly tied to the party's level. You can't legally swap it.
This. The millenium falcon and serenity are both piece of shit ships, but they have character and their captains wouldn't replace them for the world.
Most important part is their captains can't replace them for the lack of trustworthy crew members.
Unless you want to play ye pirate with 30+ crew members which is definitely one of the new adventure paths paizo going to do, changing ships don't not seem to worth all the problem for both players and DM.
You can't "legally" have a character have a higher level magic item, but that doesn't mean your hands explode if you pick them up.
>How do you feel about Paizo not trusting players to intelligently spend wealth and thus entirely removing starships from the economy? Are you upset by the fact that you can't buy ships, sell ships, or even scavenge enemy ships for spare parts?
It's honestly the first thing that genuinely makes me want to put Starfindef into the trash. All the SJW nonsense can be ignored, but treating spaceships like this is just... unplayable.
I would have a hard time convincing my group to try Starfindef since thry already hate on Pathfinder by default. This makes it impossible, because it's just an unacceptable flaw they'd (rightfully) latch on to, and I wouldn't be able to rationally defend it.
>waaahhh my level 1 character can't hijack the fucking Deathstar
If the DM is dumb enough to give the players the opportunity, they fucking well should be able to exploit it.
I forgot, can you hijack ships in Skulls path in Pathfinder?
Sure can. There is even room for sandbox adventures where you can just do pirate things. Towards the end of the campaign it is not uncommon for each party member to be the captain of their own ship.
I sort of get hijacking, I would have liked to see a scavenge option... that said, I hate PF and I'm quite excited for SF...
I was really excited until this. A group having a ship and working with that, getting new parts, repairing, hijacking, scavenging, plundering parts, uncovering archeotech or magitech from lost civilizations, they're huge, important tropes integral to the appeals at play here for me and my groups, and just abstracting all of that AND tying it to a separete per-person advancement scheme is just.. trash. Indefensible.
How's the reaction on places Paizo actually cares about? Any chance of them backpeddaling based on public reception? Or are people to busy trying to rationalize it in order to suck Paizo cock?
Tfw a PF AP does space piracy better than a game with actual space pirates.
>Or are people to busy trying to rationalize it in order to suck Paizo cock?
This.
Disheartening. Paizo will hopefully collapse under the accumulated weight of it's own circlejerk pandering.
>You can't "legally" have a character have a higher level magic item
Of course you can. Magic items aren't tied to your progression. You don't get to pick a Bag of Holding like a fucking feat.
those will probably be optional rules in a Starfider Ship-heavy book. That type of shit can take up a lot of room in a core book (really, they had this issue in Spelljammers and most sefearing guides, and when you add tech...well, BLOAT). So be a little patient.
Paizo explicitly said they don't intend to publish any splat. After the CRB and Alien Archive, it's only AP's.
The death star could never be hijacked, because you're three to six morons trying to fuck up a battle station run by thousands of people. It's like saying waah, you can't take over the entire capital of Cheliax at lvl 1. Well no shit.
But I can sure as hell take a house. And at some point, maybe a tower, or a keep. I could also invest gold into getting any of those things.
The more I think about it, the more fitting the analogy gets. Tying ships to a rigid character-based progression system in Starfinder is very much like as if you'd tie housing in Pathfinder to the same. It's absurd.
Or, for an analogy you can understand, waah, waah, I can't get the death star just by leveling to lvl 20 waah waah.
Source? Because if so, Starfinder really goes into the trash and I'm just going to leave.
paizo.com
>While there will be occasional rules supplements like bestiaries, the Starfinder Adventure Path will be a primary vector for new rules and setting information. Overall, we expect to release products for Starfinder at a much slower rate than we do for Pathfinder, making it easier and more affordable to stay up to date on both games.
In. To. The. trash.
It was a good run of hype and for a moment it seemed that they really had something going, but between the pandering, no proper spaceship stuff, and no hopes for proper expansion content outside of Adventure Path-specific content, Paizo can go fuck itself.
Hopefully there'll be some good high-science-fantasy slay-the-dragon roleplaying adventure game one day, but today is not that day.
I don't believe a word of that. I don't believe a word of that if Paizo said it themselves.
On the other hand, you can still expect 3PP to put stuff out.
>we expect to release products for Starfinder
This is not the same as 'not releasing any splats' by any interpretation whatsoever. The APs being a 'primary vector' is not the same as 'not releasing splats'. Almost everything in PF splats now is stuff from their APs and 3PP content, after all.
Yeah. I am going to wait for reviews from people I trust I think.
Only redeeming feature I can think of is then you get attached to the ship (but then scavenging would still help!!!). Like I get how Mal wouldn't want to leave Serenity or whatever, even though it's a pile of junk.
>Almost everything in PF splats now is stuff from their APs
Bullshit. Pure bullshit.
Don't really care about taking ships as opposed to salvaging and scavanging and upgrading, etc. The fact that is that Paizo fucks it all, due to their unwillingness to trust the players and DMs after giving proper guidelines, and to balance the economy properly, even with full control of the setting.
I think the issue is they didn't want equipment to become a sink that hamstrings development of other areas. They even said you can change it at your leisure without any real pain. I can see what their thinking is, but I'll probably just let players upgrade from enemy ships, etc.
What does "queering" even mean? Why would this matter in the Xth century?
>Sci-fi art
>Has filthy white men
>Not only, but white men with lovers, and CHILDREN
REEEE REEEEE REEEE
It's Russkie art, note the text on top. Russkies aren't SJW.
>tfw no WPFF Starfinder game
I actually liked 4e and 5e, though I've been playing since 3rd edition, so never looked in depth into Pathfinder personally - is Paizo that bad?
Check this out.
Paizo is garbage.
Paizo maintains their game better than WotC ever did with 3e and 3.5. At this point, I'd say Pathfinder is a better system than 3.5.
However, Paizo itself is pretty fucking terrible.
Given I could make a Starfinder equivalent in 5e with a couple house rules and about four sessions of playtesting and have it not be garbage? Yes, Paizo is that bad.
Thank you... I was literally shaking at the last image, but this makes it better.
Just... Can people just not... I can't even right now, what compels someone to draw implied PIV rape in their art, and do it in such a casual, I'd even call encouraging, way?
Someone did that with Pathfinder, in the form of Starjammer.
It's 40k-wanking shit. Sci fi settings need their own rules system, even if it's based on the same core rules as a fantasy game.
OH GOD, MOTHER AND DAUGHTER HAVING A SNUGGLE! HOW SJW!
I don;'t hate Paizo, I hate these idiots who post in these threads.
> Sci fi settings need their own rules system
Since when?
>even if it's based on the same core rules as a fantasy game.
Well yeah, I find 4e and 5e DnD ruleset to be usable for some session of a sci-fi setting based on that sci-fi series based on bounty hunting whose title escape my mind for now.
lets suggest core races for starfinder that would be better than the shit they have now. ill start
>ratfolk replaced by flying squirrels
not disgusting, actually cute, fun, can still make them GOTG tech racoons, and a unique gliding ability. WOW thats actually aesthetically pleasing and interesting!
youtube.com
So you're into lesbian incest? Because that's a her mother, you idiot.
At least it's not a father and daughter, the older woman could be a strong single mother who didn't need her deadbeat (let's be fair here, they're all deadbeats) husband.
Hadozee from Spelljammers/Star Frontiers. Already been done, no one liked them.
Rats can be cute too, user!
Hey, not all of them are deadbeats!
Some are just abusive.
>elves
For fuck's sake, they had spaceships and webways back in PF.
what are you trying to say here?
Elves in Starfinder were apparently "traumatised by the Gap" to the point they went into ultraisolationism and are irrelevant in space, never interacting with most races.
While, in my opinion, them not being core is ridiculous, given their rich history of spacefaring and planetary travel.
Oh my god will you please GO AND STAY GO WITH THE R@s
Being a deadbeat is a form of abuse!
Elves in Pathfinder are part of an interstellar community; look up the Aiudara and the Sovyrian Stone. Remember the Aen Elle from The Witcher 3? It's kiiiinda like that.
They are still in the core book; we'll get stats for all the core pathfinder races there. they just aren't nearly as prevalent to the galactic community.
>they just aren't nearly as prevalent to the galactic community.
And that's nonsense.
ever setting doesnt have to have elves, you fucking nigger. use your creativity
>While, in my opinion, them not being core is ridiculous, given their rich history of spacefaring and planetary travel.
user, that's like saying China had a rich history of naval exploration and empire-building up until they had the cultural ennui making them turbo-isolationists... Which is kind of what happened to the Elves. They lost centuries of knowledge, putting your average elf on-par in terms of knowledge and wisdom with the average Human, and the loss of all that accumulated knowledge horrified them to the point of NEETdom.
Long-lived races suffer from amnesia the most.
Lies and slander, we needed to nudge Elves out of the Core slot for rats! Rats are more important than Elves!
Alternatively, why not design the game so that you don't need to have anything more than basic equipment and still have a viable character?
Ah, doesn't matter. I'm going to be converting the Starfinder classes to 5e D&D either way.
>garbage taste posting
I rather have elves first than rats and insects.
Fuck your muh gritty setting fetish, I want my pretty aesthetic.
nothing stops you from houseruling it, son. If you're a GM, you can change whatever you like about the setting - up to and including swapping the setting out wholesale.
>Fuck your muh gritty setting fetish
Can we even call Starfinder that? They've got an aesthetic that's too clean and shiny to be Dead Space industrial, too gritty to be Apple Store sleek, too high adventure for Cyberpunk yet too mired in social issues to be a Space Opera.
From what has been shown so far, how easily will I be able to use Starfinder to run a campaign based on Outlaw Star?
Considering it is designed core for party adventure to the tune of Cowboy Bebop and Star Wars, pretty easily.
Pretty easily from what we've seen.
Probably incredibly easily from the looks of things. Though the way the autists are acting, you're more likely to get Vandread (aka women find a guy and treat him like shit because they don't know what the fuck men are anymore).
Bad example for both the Falcon and Serenity - we SEE Mal buy Serenity in a flashback in one episode; and Han won the Falcon from Lando in a card game.
This is leaving aside that not everyone is necessarily so attached to their starship.
But most importantly of all, it's fucking dissonant as Hell. What's the in-universe reason for the fact that every time I try and buy a ship, I'm cockblocked? Does this happen to other people in the universe? What's stopping them?
>I want my pretty aesthetic.
you can make races that are pretty but not elfs, user. thats what this post was all about
i would replace elfs with merfolk
Let's all now imagine Paizo trying to make a sci Fi setting as grungy and gritty as dead space while also trying to talk about the gender politics and sexual preferences of the people in that setting.