/5eg/ - Fifth Edition General

Winding tunnels.
Jumping spiders.
Traps that trigger ambushes.
Depending on frontline, very fast/nimble enemies.

How do you settle on a character?
Our GM gave use three weeks of prep, so put of excitement, then indescisiveness and finally boredom I ended up with nearly a dozen.

How do you run your campaign? What's the magic level? How high is the lethality?

Must be a nice feeling.

Ask your fellow players who they might be interested interacting with in-character, and who might be most useful to the party.

If your build doesn't revolve around fire resistance and setting yourself on fire you're doing it wrong

Against favored enemies at level seven he's routinely doing 40 damage in a round. I guess now that I've typed it up that doesn't seem like a ton compared to the Cleric's Shatter or the Warlock's Fireball.

Honestly my main concern is just that with Cleric+Paladin front line, I'm having difficulty finding monsters to damage him or contain him when he's always 30+ feet away from the action.

I had that feeling this week with my dungeon filled with riddles and animated armor that spoke in riddles.
They even flubbed their only wish that I granted them at the end of the dungeon. All according to keikaku.

Just give enemies the firebolt cantrip, or magic missile. It'll be fine, I promise.

>see Demogorgon
>go crazy
>jokes on you, I'm already crazy

>Cleric+Paladin
There's your problem, not the puny ranger.

It feels so good to be like describing stuff in the environment and having the players ask questions about it or want to interact with it. Or when players ask NPCs what their opinions are.

And I finally got to a point where I feel confident describing overland travel. It just makes me want to DM more. That's the best feeling, when you did what you wanted and you feel like everyone still wants more.

Hah! Good one.

Can you elaborate?

What Warlock Patron am I?

I tried though its a fairly new group so they've limited experience.
Answer were (translated)
"Idk"
"Something cool"
"Well my choice depends on your choice"
And the GM "You know the world better than me so you know best"

Paladin is the strongest class in the game, and with a personal healbuffslut he usually turns into a total powerhouse.

...

I thought that was the bard?

I dont know, but definitely a powerful one.

D&D's Greedy Jew is Mammon, archduke of the Third Layer of the Nine Hells. So, Fiend.

Oh ad this just dropped.
"War Cleric of Kord played like BatB Aquaman but voiced by Brian Blessed."
This from the second most experienced of the group.

Sorlock doesn't really shine until 8th.

Strongest would be Barbarian, since 5th is when they shine.

Barb 1 / Rogue 4 also works. Take Shield Master (or be V. Human for Shield Master + ASI) and knock everything prone.

Moon Druid 2 / Totem Barbarian 3 comes online at 5 this level, too. Wildshape into a Brown Bear and Rage. Two more levels of Barbarian and you can Extra Attack with a Crag Cat, which is the otherwise superior CR1 form.

>Sorlock doesn't really shine until 8th.
SeaGoo Sorlock of Cthulhu does.

Bard is.. different.

Paladin definitely has the bet combination of survivability and damage by himself, without necessarily trying to become a powerhouse. Multiclassing aside, they are definitely the best at both damage dealing and tanking all at once, while still having unreasonable levels of utility.

Bards requires some thought, and they are still a squishy caster, but in the right hands, they can absolutely demolish entire encounters by themselves.

I still have this horror story of a Bard player, where I tried to incite some anger by having a cult kill someone the character cared about. I expected the character (a rather "shy" and quiet girl) to try talking her 3 other high level characters to help her with clearing iut their den, so I prepared a cult den that would not exactly be dangerous, but should at least take some resources out of them, before a planned fight during the night.

She decided to go on a solo rampage. All in all it became a deadly encounter, and Jesus Christ I had to ask her to alter her alignment away from Good because of how insane she went about her vengeance. (She agreed, thought it was good character development, before anyone spergs out about alignments)

I had no idea Bards did "terrifying and psychopathic magic user" so much better than warlocks, but damn man.

What exactly did she use?

I recommend nets. They become restrained until they cut open the nets or otherwise free themselves. It's reasonable to have a creature run up and throw a net on them.

Is toll the dead ok to use? Or is 1d12 too strong?

I think he must be a Great Old one.

In one of the games, he works on the side line against an actual God that wants to destroy the world. He doesn't seem particularly interested in the outcome, but rather the road to whatever the conclusion may be. He has a really odd morality. Fiend is a no go, they are inherently evil, and this guy is not even on that scale, and if he is, he is true neutral.

Raven Queen and Hexblade are too specific, neither matches. Could also be Fey, but the powers granted considered, he certainly feels more like a GOO than a Fey.

Maybe seeker? Only heard about it, never really read too in-depth about it. The positive plane shit certainly doesn't for either.

Did I miss anything?

Go on...

Elaborate on this. What exactly did they do on their rampage?

Unless you have a billion encounters a day, they're just weaker versions of wizards that spam fireball all day.

All kinds of things. Tons of torture. Force cage on 5 mooks + crown of madness and drinking cloud, heat metal, healing to let them suffer a bit longer, burying living people in the walls, etc.

There was 1 survivor she let go on purpose. One arm isnt quite where it is supposed to be, and he is unrecognizable by anyone he used to know.his voice also sounds off, as if something is stuck in his windpipe, and he was text burned into his skin in 4 different places saying "I am a bad guy".

The cult is widespread, and they are now taking two tests whenever they see her, 1 for whether they know her or not, and one to check if they can avoid being feared by her. Whih is funny, because it is a 21 year old 150cm tall, 45kg unimposing girl, who looks weak and fragile.

She was level 16, so it was KINDA expected to go badly, but the amount of enemies made me think she would still struggle. I was wrong.

On the other hand, their fight during the might was quite difficult, because she really didn't have any spell slots left. So hey, I got what I wanted from it.

>4 different places
Should have been 40, my bad.

She was a tad too... descriptive in her actions, and actually made one player leave until she was done.

Edgy, but it feels like the right kind of Edgy.

In character I believe they're really feeling it, but afterwards when I ask for input I get the bare minimum most of the time. I think I worry too much about railroading even though everything has been 100% on the players.

I played past level 5, and the issues disappeared. Rangers hit their peak damage at level 5 and don't really gain anything else substantial for damage until level 17.

Bard
At-Will Power: 1/5. A lore bard without their resources can only really cast rituals, use a couple of weak class features such as song of rest and spam vicious mockery. They can, however, attempt grapples and interact with the environment, I suppose. Could obtain GFB/BB with a feat or multiclass or use of secrets or something.
Burst: 3/5, can only really cast the one major spell a round but has access to some powerful damage/control/buff spells such as polymorph, as with most casters.
Survivability: 3/5, doesn't have to get into melee, can easily grab moderately armoured.
Team Support: 5/5 Healing word. Slightly buffed counterspell. Aura of Vitality before paladin for an average of 70 HP healed per person per cast. Song of rest, cutting words, etc. Make an enemy use its reaction to run and take a reaction attack in the process. Vicious mockery. However, limited bardic inspiration and spell slots.
Utility: 4/5 has a number of spells and great skill variety and usage and rituals but wizard is better at this with magical utility and making up for poor skills by having int for int skills which is otherwise very rare to have a high stat in.

Paladin:
At-Will Power: 4/5, weaker than fighter unless you're an oathbreaker and weaker than barbarian early on but it's still great.
Burst: 5/5, seriously. You can spend four spell slots in a round just vomiting smites, and the smites are good.
Survivability: 3/5, aside from increased saves has...
(cont)

Since Philemon is supposed to be a representation of the collective unconscious, and the Astral Plane is where dreams exist, Astral Searcher is probably the closest.

>Survivability: 3/5, aside from increased saves has...
I dont even care what you are going to say next, you are actually retarded if you think 3/5 is correct.

They are 4/5 at least

Survivability: 3/5, aside from increased saves has to be in melee mostly to function and can't exactly heal themself when downed. No particular tank abilities other than having high AC potentially and good saves. Bordering on 4/5, I'd say they're more survivable than a bard, but they've a slow speed, meh skills and it adds up to a lack of versatility which could endanger them.
Team Support: 4/5, still great. +Saves to everyone is invaluable and they can use their action to heal, but it's not quite bard level.
Utility: 1/5, this isn't your role and there WILL be someone else in the party with high charisma, so that's not awfully unique either. You do get spells for some utility but you might as well attack and smite with them and you don't exactly get a lot. Bordering on 2/5, really.

I'd say they both have their good points and bad points.

If you're worried about railroading, then you probably aren't railroading. There's a big difference between "I've got stuff planned" and "here comes the plot train choo choo."

As long as the players are able to react to what you present to them, you're not railroading.

>When barbarian exists
>When moon druid exists
>When barbarogue exists
>When, heck, even wizards survive better than them sometimes because the wizards can just hang out at the back and not give two shits as they dance around invisible or hiding in an illusionary box or whatever
They're nothing special on survivability. They have good raw defences but nothing else.
If your DM runs everything as a generic hack and slash then sure, I'd give them 4/5, but when you factor in other things the paladin is at the front putting themself in danger.

I worry I'm throwing too much money at my players.

I'm scaling up Sunless Citadel for a party of level 3 players. The group has a paladin, barbarian, druid, and ranger.

Should I increase the number of enemies since they're a bit lacking in multitarget damage, or should I just use slightly higher CR enemies to account for higher player HP?

Nah, it's pretty good and the d12 only jumps in the 2nd round of combat unless you're low on the list. It's a pretty good Cantrip, but it's a Cantrip in the end with no added effects.

Ok cool, I avoid saying 'you have to x' , plan a bunch of stuff out and have someone ask them if they want to do something.

I'm worried about the same but weapons have durability so it's fine I think.

>4 spell slots
?

>Attack, smite
>Extra attack, smite
>Bonus attack, smite
>Reaction attack, smite
With PAM and/or sentinel you can quite reliably get a reaction attack.

Sometimes it's fine to be urged by an NPC. Or forced to do something. Think about movies where the hero is forced to do something they don't want to do, then they figure out how to work it to their advantage.

You can also convey urgency this way. Also, remember that your players want to play. They're there to do stuff. You don't always have to ask them "is this ok?"

Death or knowledge cleric?

He's assuming Polearm Master for a bonus action attack and a reaction attack.

Basing class power purely on combat is a flawed position to determine best class in the game, but he's right about the combat power for a sub-level 10 game.

>weapons have durability
Come again

>Inmate magic resistance
>Getting Cha bonus to literally all saves
>Healig aura on a Paladin who literally cannot fail his concentration saves
Yeah okay buddy.

For most OoC stuff there is charisma and things like Command.

>Basing class power purely on combat
That's what 'utility' is for.
Also, survivability kind of includes non-combat a bit as well.
And so does team support.

Well, assuming it's about my post with all the /5 numbers, you'd see that the gist is 'paladin sucks outside of combat'.

>but weapons have durability
What.

All that "utility" makes up half or more of the game unless you're playing an MMO with dice.

>durability
>weapons
Whoever does this kind of shit, has a special place in hell reserved specifically for them.

I've accidentally created a sense of urgency in the old ruins they've decided to explore. I hadn't thought of anything beyond a floor but they wanted more so on top of more things that actually threaten them they're going to try and save a woman they don't know from the undead trying to convert her and she's likely going to be a part of someone else's backstory.

Special stuff doesn't last forever.

Does /5eg/ even talk about anything creative anymore or is it always just sperging about which classes are best?

I had a good time using that ancient giant cidery filled with drunk dragons scenario from awhile back.

>literally cannot fail his concentration saves
You'll have, what, +5 or +6 to con saves at level 8 or so?
It's hardly that infalliable.
You also have to wait until later to get aura of vitality whereas bard gets it at 6. And it also disrupts paladin's at-will damage if they go for anything that gives them bonus action attacks considering that they get improved divine smite on bonus attacks.

You have to realize that there are a lot of cases where just having high saves isn't going to save you. If you have to run from enemies you're going to be at the very front and you're going to be the slowest and you're not going to have any spells to boost your speed or suchlike.
If you have to balance on a bridge and not fall into a chasm then you're probably going to have sub-par dexterity and lack acrobatics proficiency.
If you're fighting a monster with very strong melee attacks (Hint: Most monsters have much stronger melee attacks and you can't use cover against them) then you're not awfully good at fighting at range.

In raw hack-slash survivability, yes, you're kinda tough. Not the best, but tough.

A wizard on the other hand can almost harmlessly take a level dip of cleric and run around with 20 AC, boost it up to 25 AC with a shield if needed, use portent to auto-succeed critical saves, not even get in range to have to make those saves in the first place or use many other spells to make them an annoying bitch to deal with such as blink.

Yeah, so what? If that's the case, just consider the utility rating as more important than other stuff, which is probably what the poster already had in mind, because the Paladin's rating in the other fields surpasses the Bard's.
Your post adds nothing of value to the discussion.

A lot of things don't require skill checks or magic to solve. There are often many ways to solve it and a DM isn't going to require you have a wizard with a certain spell to get past something, but will have an alternate possible route.
Combat, on the other hand, almost always takes damage to solve.

>Have 21 dex
>"above anything human capable! a God himself!"
>A low as fuck level goblin hits me with half of his attacks

I just skip over all the "blank room, 1v1, who's better" stat comparisons and optimal build talk. I know minutia is really important for balance and strategies, but it's also boring and pedantic. And it reinforces that there are "right" ways to have fun or play the game.

Well, actually, I'll take back what I said because it's mostly irrelevant in light of Adjust how valuable utility is to your DM. If utility is really important for your game, then bard is more overpowered.
If your DM does one long rest per fight but all non-combat things have hardly anything you can apply utility to, paladin is way overpowered.

The question is, can people ever decide upon an 'ideal game' with the perfect balance of skill checks, non-skill-checks, combat and fucking around?

Dexterity isn't entirely about speed. You can dodge and fuck about as much as you want but you can't outrun bullet.

Give reasons to play a sorcerer instead of a wizard. Subtle spell is the only thing I can think of...

>outrun
Why outrun when you can move out of its trajectory? You can't outrun a punch either and fighters (irl) don't get hit 100% of the time.

I have only one line for you that will undoubtably convince you to play sorcerer:

There is no reason to play sorcerer and your party will already have someone with high charisma, but yet nobody with high intellect. Sorcerer is babymode. Play a fucking wizard.

>pissing off a level 16 character
No sympathy.

If you made things more realistic nobody would be getting hit a lot of the time. Maybe the really big constructs and stuff.

But combat would drag on for far too long. Though they could try to remedy that.

And anyway, the whole thing about HP not actually being meat points so technically you might not even be being hit.

Still, if you're against a 10 strength peasant without weapon training holding a weapon they'll have +0 to hit and if you're using mage armour with 22 dexterity that means they have a 10% chance of hitting you each round. Which is ridiculous, yes, but eh.

If the goblin has over +0 to hit there's a reason they have it - weapon training or high stats or both.

I'm brainstorming up a statblock for a Zombie Horde based on Swarm tactics.

Other than arbitrary stats, do these seem good for abilities?

>Mob of Undead
>Medium to Gargantuan Undead

>Mindless Horde- If an attack or spell would damage three or more tiles of Mob of Undead, deal maximum damage instead of rolling.
>Mob- a Mob of Undead can move through spaces as small as 5 feet wide without squeezing, however it must end it's movement in a space large enough for it.
>Strength In Numbers- The Mob of Undead has an extra attack for every size above Medium it has.
>Cut Them Down!- The Mob of Undead is a Gargantuan Creature at full health, Huge Creature at 75% Health, Large Creature at 50%, and Medium Creature at 25% or lower.

Going to have a shitload of HP but pitiful (maybe just 10) AC.

>And if you're using mage armor
Yeah, and if I'm flying 40m meters in the air and the peasant doesn't have throwing weapons he can't hit me either. That's not the point though. The point is that a demigod of speed is piss easy to hit and as fast as anybody.

It's a shame really. That idea I referred to made a really fun adventure and it started with the idea of what would make dragons flatulent.

It is at this time that you should remember "frontlines" aren't a thing in DnD 5e, and enemies can just run around melee combatants (or past them, eating the single reaction attack they get vs the whole group) to get at the "backline".

Not that it's actually going to make much of a difference if the Ranger built well, because they'll still have solid AC and d10 HP. If anything it'll give him a chance to finally use those short rest heal die that have been going to waste.

Oh I forgot one
>Split Up- As part of it's movement, a Large or larger Undead Mob can split into two smaller groups and a Medium or larger mob can merge into one (up to a maximum size of Gargantuan) or merge into a larger one.

If a group splits in two, divide their HP in 2 (rounded down). If two groups merge, add their HP together.

Fluff

Typos but you get the idea.

Pal/Undying Light Warlock/Draconic Sorcerer

I infact played a full Sorc that was dealing on melee similar damage to our Battlemaster

>If you made things more realistic nobody would be getting hit a lot of the time. Maybe the really big constructs and stuff.
Reminder that hit points are not meat points and a "hit" does not always mean a physical connection.

>played a full Sorc that was dealing on melee similar damage to our Battlemaster
how?

To be fair, they didnt know. They just needed some sacrifices, and happened to take one of her friends (urchin backstory, so the friend was of the "no family or important people will miss me" social rank.

Except for the level 16 Bard, of course.

>Special stuff doesn't last forever.
Kill yourself.

First time I have seen that response actually be a fitting reply.

Kudos user.

>I don't want to break Nar'Sil
Babby.

V. Human
Pretty good rolled stats (to avoid MAD), got in the end 18, 16, 15, 14, 12, 10
Picked weapon master feat (greatsword, and other stuff) +1 to Str for total of 16
Then it was a matter of quicken cast GFB or twinning BB, eventually picked GWM (like the battlemaster)

I was making two attacks before he could. Is not something I'd recommend to anybody because you need many good stats (not high ones, just 15s and 16s) and is resource intensive and you have to know how to manage it, but you can pull off similar damage to him in most of the levels (remember games usually don't go beyond 14th level).

That's it?

Nar'sil broke under some pretty specific, extreme circumstances. Its durability is basically infinite outside of that.
If powerful things weren't infinite, they wouldn't have had to go to mount doom.

Need ideas for exploration-based campaign a la West Marches set in the mountainous north