Post Primarchs who did nothing wrong. I'll start

He died

Not. An. Argument. I qccept you appology though

...

>razed Monarchia because his daddy told him to
>razed Prospero because his daddy told him to
>even though both of these planets were the home planets and people of his fellow primarch brothers
>was a dick to lion'el and still got his ass handed to him
>fucked off to the warp like an idiot and abandoned his legion

he only died because he dared to face his treacherous brother who was a much better swordsman
he pretty much died on purpose
nothing wrong

>>razed Monarchia because his daddy told him to

That was the Ultramarines you retard.

Just how much fluff have you actually read, newfag?

And rumor has it he has turned into a giant Wulfen~

Assaulting face first into Prospero which required valdor to bail him.

Fucking off and being on a wild goose chase all the time in heresy.

Can't diplomacy worth shit if the encounter with Khan is any indication.

2 & 11

Are you fucking retarded? Seriously, this isn't me joking around, are you literally retarded?

>That was the Ultramarines you retard.
oh shit you're right

Robooty Girlyman

>ignored Vulkans and Corax warnings
>leroy jenkins'd Horus

Ferrus was a hotheat who needed escorting from the location he was inhabiting

While everyone here will agree that
Is a loser newfag who should probably just shut the fuck up, Russ is still a faggot Yiff hypocrite and his legion, and shit tier chapter, are totally garbage

Valdor was the one who urged the purge of Prospero newfaggot

DAMAGE CONTROL

According to new lore he died because the Keeper of Secrets inhabiting Fulrims arsehole at the time froze/reversed time to stop him killing Fulrim and then in the confusion Fulgrim beheaded him.

No, read Inferno. Valdor wanted to let things play out, but Russ went full Leeroy Jenkins

Wrong

Holy shit, a typing dog.

All he ever wanted was the truth. The defense rests.

Thanks for the (you)'s

He just wanted to build a pretty castle

too pure.
RIP red angel

He was a whinny bitch, Magnus or Lorgar tier

He never whined.
He did his job until he didn't.

Can we at least agree that Sanguinius actually did nothing wrong? (Apart from trying to 1v1 Horus)

Don't you dare insult our golden fucking hawk boy, he was a true pure bro to the end.

Every stupid decision his legion is known for only happened after he was put into a coma.
>All he ever wanted was the truth
The why he lied to his brothers and manipulated them?His harebrained scheme destroyed the imperial webway,fucked the thousand sons when they were close to fixing the butcher's nails and he then sold Angron into slavery.
Murder-suicide attempt in the Iron Cage.

He was a bitch just like sanguinius

Honestly nothing, especially considering literally any of the actions of the traitor primarchs who are all the stupidest, most thoughtless characters in the entire 40K universe.

Veeky Forums hates Russ because he was a good guy with believable, realistic flaws that fit his character and he didn't react like a literal child to his grimdark, anime-tier backstory like the majority of the other primarchs. Instead of being a whiny, butthurt fag constantly, he just did what he felt was right and made the best of bad situations. He was loyal to a man who was 1) a walking demi-god and 2) his supposed father, the same way any person might be loyal to a walking demi-god who is also his supposed father.

The reason all of the traitor primarchs either have been written to have hilariously, laughably, ridiculously grimderp childhoods or were somehow "betrayed" by the emperor is because that's the only way you can make their betrayal make any sense.

Russ didn't have any of that stuff happen to him, and he's relatively asympathetic towards the darker histories of the traitor primarchs, which twists nerd panties because all they can see in Russ is the bully who used to pick on them in primary school.

tl;dr--Russ did nothing wrong, but Veeky Forums is stupid and hates him anyway

>Fighting the arch heretic no matter the odds is a failing

Sorry user, you can't rip apart a phantom titan with your hands and be a bitch.

Another point was that he had a moral code and he held people accountable to it, which instantly triggers the living shit out of anyone who uses Veeky Forums.

Always remember that the worst thing you can possibly do is hold people accountable to your own morals. That's even worse than actual murder, rape, and genocide.

He was decent. Stayed loyal. Fucked up the execution of Magnus pretty badly though.

What's the source for this new lore?

Sup.

The truth was that the gods of the ether are real, and they are daemons, who lie, favor the strong, and are capable of granting those who serve them with power divine. I mean, it's sounds like a massive copout to say "He did nothing wrong in the eyes of the Chaos gods", but really I like the fact that he realized and embraced all their evils because of what they could offer him and humanity. But wasn't Horus acting independently when he sent the equivalent of the least adoptable dogs at the animal shelter to the Prospero Metaphysics Convention?

How would have things turned out for him if he hadn't been attacked by the space elves as a kid?

wonder what would have happened if the space elves had adopted him.
Think about it, a CWE superman

>Angron
Eternal slave. He never could conceptualize anything but being in chains. The only time he was free was when he was fighting with his slave-brothers. He had a chance with the Imperium but slipped those chains for new ones. A fighter, but a failure elsewhere.

>Magnus.
Too smart for his own good. He was used to knowing and doing better than anyone else and was one of the closest to the Emperor in that regard. He should've heeded Emps and he paid for it. His failures are equal parts his own initiative and actions on behalf of those he allied with.

>Lorgar
Failures on top of failures. He felt himself more of a culture builder than a General. He didn't view himself as a Soldier and even Magnus, the most learned of the Emperor's sons, said that Lorgar shouldn't have had a Legion if that was the case. He needed to be reaffirmed in all he did and had the weakest spine among the lot. A failure across the board.

>Mortarion
When the pressure was on, he could not stand. He failed at the crucial moment fighting his Father and in resisting Chaos. Not much else to him.

>Night Haunter
He pushed things in an effort to teach an all-knowing God a lesson. By the time that lesson was imparted, it'd already been taught elsewhere. Everything he did was for nothing.

>Perturabo
One of the better of the traitor sons. He wanted to do one thing but sold his dreams out of a sense of duty. He bottled up the bitterness and took the wrong way out. His honor-oaths to Horus bound him throughout the Heresy.

>Fulgrim.
Too idealistic, too cultured, too thorough. Fulgrim tried to be the best and has, perhaps, fallen the furthest. His greatest regret was slaying Ferrus and he clones his brother in a constant effort to validate it.

>Horus.
I shouldn't have to explain this.

Nah Sangy was a bitch. Lost every major fight he fought and cried about everything

Gtfo faggot, you arent allowed to make smart well thought out posts on da chan

That just makes him moe

Moe?

>No Horus for you!!
That's too bad; you've done such a great job so far.

I think you mean burned Prospero to the ground because he got tricked by Horus

Worst post. Worst person.
Kys.

Try and be more subtle next time

Well, I can continue. I still need to cover the Loyalists.

>Horus.
Horus was, in many ways, the perfect son. Not in that Jesuit manner that comes along with Sanguinous, but rather, an actual son. He knew what his Father desired of him and he through his all into it. His failures came from the corruptive influence of the warrior lodges he allowed to spread beneath his wings. In the end, he knew his sins, but until that point he was blind to everything but his own desires and the pushing influence of the Gods.

>Alpharius and Omegon
Their secrecy is both their greatest weapon and their greatest failure. There's not too much we know about their current going ons, but we know the two brothers didn't agree and their Sons knew little about them. Half of them are fighting for one purpose, the other half is fighting for another. For what and why is lost in the haze of connections, secrecy and half-truths.

So, onto the Loyalists. Gonna gather my thoughts on things, but as Russ is the big argument right now, I'll cover him real quick.

>Russ
His biggest failing wasn't that he was stupid or a slaughterer or anything such as that. His problem was he was too loyal. The Emperor was angry when Magnus broke the webway and I'm sure the message conveyed that. When Horus changed the message, Russ didn't question it. He'd already been used to fight Astartes before and, presumably, used to fight and/or slay another Primarch. When questions should've been asked, he bowed his head and did what was asked of him without another word. He and Dorn were the most loyal and that loyalty proved to be a failure for both of them. Russ more so.

So what I'm hearing is that ultimately 40k fluff is garbage-tier writing. Shocking. No no, really; this is my shocked face.

>what is Signus Prime

Seriously, The Burning of Propsero was a humongous mess, The Emperor never even told Russ why he was being arrested, outside "breaching the council of Nikiea" a little context would have gone a long way. Had Russ been told Magnus was trying to alert the Emperor to a betrayal by the Warmaster, Russ might have been slightly more skeptical of Horus's change of orders. Granted Russ ALWAYS hated Magnus for poorly grounded reasons but that might have turned him around a bit

Most people feel that the traitor sons are the most bland of them and I have to disagree. The reasoning behind their traitorous actions have had to be validated, yes, and some of the story is shit, but it also fills them out as individuals more.

>Roboute.
Robby and the other mainline Primarchs aren't quite as deep into their failures as the traitors. Most of his align with the fact that, among the Emperor's Sons, he was the most human. He held parents where others were gladiators, forest children or more. He retained the concepts of father and mother throughout his time in the Great Crusade. When the time came, he leaned more towards *HIS* people rather than the Imperium at large and it almost cost him. In these new days, it is again showing to be his greatest cost. Vulkan withstood the failures of the Imperium during the Beast fiasco. They've almost broken Roboute.

>Ferrus.

Ferrus was a middle ground between many Primarchs. His passions were tempered. He was a veritable anvil. His failures came to alter not the Galaxy, but his sons. Where he hated his hands and desired their removal, his sons came to love the hands and hate the flesh. The Hands have become the most hateful of the Loyalists and are only now starting to see the error of their ways.

>The Lion.
Lion is comparable to the Alpha Legion. He liked his secrecy and, in the years after his vanishing, it only deepened. His failures lay in his secrecy and unquestioning loyalty, much like a more well-read Russ. The Dark Angels have done much for the Imperium, but they've also sacrificed much from it because of his Legacy.

>The Khan.
Jaghatai was one of the two Primarchs that held little failure. When the chips were down and he held all the reasons to go traitor, he stayed true to his oaths. He loved his brothers among the traitors most of all, but knew when to step back from mortal connections.

Good stuff user!

>Dorn.
If Russ was the Emperor's sword, Dorn was the shield. His loyalty and love of his father was unquestionable but his loyalty screwed him. When the Imperium needed him most he was taken with fury and stormed out after the traitors on Crusade. Had he held himself like the Wall, well... The Imperium would've benefited.

>Sanguinous.
The Jesuit meme and beloved by all. His failures are more self-focused. He loved his sons too greatly, loved his brothers too much and felt himself too corrupted. He worried the Emperor would axe him like the missing Primarchs and so kept something important secret.

>Corvus
Flawed but skilled. He took the blows as they came and acted for the Emperor where he was needed. The Emperor trusted him enough to bestow some of the gene-secrets of the Astartes. Sadly, the Alpha Legion-driven actions of his cloned sons hurt him deeply. He let it drive him away from the Imperium when he was needed.

>Vulkan
Among all the sons, Vulkan is perhaps the best. Warrior, scholar, craftsman and more. He was the largest but one of the most compassionate. He held the best traits among all his brothers, though his monster was reflected upon the outside. When the Imperium needed him, he came. He was sadly not the statesman like Roboute and could not turn the Imperium about during The Beast fiasco.

My point in writing all of this is to push back against the "Such and such Primarch sucks" that goes around. Loyalist, Traitor and in between are all characters that have been fleshed out. Some concepts are going to come across worse from some writers than others. They are all flawed, yet none of them are all so deeply flawed as to be unlikable. Well, except maybe Lorgar. Lorgar was a bitch.

There is more to these characters than memes and the failures of some of the Black Library writers. Read between the lines. Take one story as an examination of one aspect of a Primarch and create a collage of the character from them all. One or two bad stories do not completely tarnish a character.

Oh user.....

I stand by my point. Taking the Primarchs at face value from any point of view is obviously going to create a biased point of view. A writer can write wonderfully about one thing and fail in another and it is important to remember, just like the Primarchs, the writer is flawed. There is a concept there, though.

Take that concept and carefully pull the stories out. Use them to craft the Primarch instead of having them shovel a half-begotten abortion in your face. These stories are your buffet. Are you just going to ask the waitress to bring you whatever? No, go and gird your plate to what looks and tastes as you wish.

40k is a wonderful setting. It has pros, it has cons but the excellent thing is that canon is flexible. You can take and do and craft so much in the universe. You can conceive of a static character in so many ways because of so many different writers crafting the character in various ways.

Don't let others hamper what you enjoy.

M8 im being for realy Sang a bitch

Gotta agree with you about logar, I'm even a word bearer as my main army and they have always had an appeal to me, but I could never get over how logar couldn't ever seem to really stand for his beliefs so would never defend himself or fall to the "you wouldn't understand" argument, had so much potential to be a leader type primarch like horus or guilliman but never had the backbone to truly see his visions with out a scape goat present, even after he fully taps into his psychic potential and really begins to have the ability to forcefully stand up to his brothers

Wrong.

Garvial Loken, who met more Primarchs than just about any other Marine said that Russ was the most human

I can certainly understand why he would say that. Russ was a warrior, something Garvial was familiar with, while Roboute was a statesman. However, the familiar connections can not be understated when it comes to the Primarchs who were pretty much forged by their social connections.

Loken was playing regicide or whatever with Russ when he realized that.

>post human monstrosity having an opinion on the state of humanity

Loken was a bro man

And I, again, stand by my statement.
This user is somewhat correct, which I why I mention the familiarity Gavriel might have had. I have not read that bit, but from overarching story and conceptualization of the character, I retain that Roboute is the closest to "normal human" one might get.

Russ was a barbarian-king raised by wolves in the frozen mountains of a Death World. He had no chance at formal education, no background in a static society and was most adjusted to rough forms of living and heavy conflict. However, he was quite amiable and intelligent and spent a good time among normal humanity. He was one of the more human of the Primarchs, but not the most.

In contrast, Roboute was raised by a fairly caring Father and Mother and spent most of his time dealing with humans in a static, socially intertwined society. His skills ended up build around social, cultural and state-based worries with some skills developed in war.

Both are human, exceedingly so among their brothers, but Roboute simply had a greater background to work from.

>His biggest failure was that the Ultramarines stopped him from bringing the Iron Warriors down with him

DID. NOTHING. WRONG.

...

My counter argument to any post responding to mine in the negative is did they though?

>sent the equivalent of the least adoptable dogs at the animal shelter to the Prospero Metaphysics Convention?

Not bad, you filthy namefag.

YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH

Think we had a thread about that months ago. Basically it contained Angron having;
>exarch mom
>barely fitting mesh armor
>farseer crush
>angry poetry
>mastery of all eldar paths

someone get Snyder to direct it.

>OP posts bait.
>People take it.
What the fuck is wrong with you guys.

The writefaggotry had a Beverly Hills Ninja feel around it.

there was no writefaggotry.
>beverly hills ninja
that was one comfy movie

Prove me wrong

>>Corvus
>The Emperor trusted him enough to bestow some of the gene-secrets of the Astartes

I just read this book. Corvus was retarded. The Emperor gave him the most powerful weapon in the galaxy. The primarch and space marine gene seeds. Where does he build his gene seed lab? The basement of his headquarters? No. Next door to his headquarters? No. He sticks it down on the planet, in hostile territory. Fucking idiot. No wonder Alpha Legion stole it right out from under his nose.

He wasn't present at Nikaea, another primarch speaking in favour of Magnus could have changed Emp's mind. And then the Wolves wouldn't have fucked Prospero, and Magnus would have stayed loyal and could have been present at the Siege of Terra.

Nikaea is the crowning moment of the Emperors stupidity and hypocrisy. Thats not something you can blame the Khan for.

>Post Primarchs who did nothing wrong.

user, you actually have to do stuff before we can judge it was wrong or not.

No, the crowning moment of his stupidity was not insta-killing Horus when he saw that he'd killed Sanguinius. Oh, he killed my son? Nonono, he can still be redeemed! But now he killed some random bumfuck guardsman? REEEEEEEE!

I can blame the Khan for not teaching his legion how to speak fucking Gothic.

Its more of a idea snips than writefaggotry.
Mostly details of Angyrons life in the craftworld as a different child.

He sided with Horus instead of rushing towards Terra and help fortifying the imperial palace, had he remained loyal not only the siege would had failed, but he would also get all the recognition he wanted.

?

>Granted Russ ALWAYS hated Magnus for poorly grounded reasons but that might have turned him around a bit
Magnus literally killed space wolves because they discovered the flesh changes, prevent them from killing the chaosed thousand sons and was caught red handed by Leman Russ who also fitness witnessed the flesh changes and knew it was a warp affliction.

>Magnus literally killed space wolves because they discovered the flesh changes
Never happened.

The Khan couldn't make it to Nikea so instead he sent his legion equivalent of a Librarian instead to advocate for the use of psykers. The big problem though was his representative could barely speak English and had a really hard time conveying his message.

I dunno about the second part but Magnus did kill a Space Wolf in front of Russ.