8e T'au Discussion Part 8: FAQed Savior Protocol edition

That was uncalled for.
Shield drones didn' do anything wrong.

What said. You can only take an understrength unit if you don't have enough models, and if you're running that many squads you clearly do

I mean you can run squads of 4 pathfinders with 3 special weapons already, I don't see what the big deal is.
I do hate how crisis suits are now 3+, and have to take at least 2 weapons, but the FAQ doesn't really fix it. You can take a squad of pathfinder drones only, or take a commander with a drone and drop the commander, leaving you with a drone HQ, but the uses are limited in tau.

What I have surmised from 8th Tau so far:

1. Fuck you we have rail guns on everything.
2. People crying and attempting to make ghostkeel/stealthsuits work
3. Pathfinders don't automatically melt because they realized they were forgetting to put on their in all previous editions armor.
4. Nobody looks to the Forge World for more eclectic models that give you tactical advantages.
5. Can literally create 12 wounds for characters with a fast attack slot.

1. yes they do
2. no they work
3. no they're still 5+
4. no they just suck
5. yes you can

are you stuck in 6th buddy?

Would sting wings be worth taking?

They should be ok. Fast, cheap and good guns.

Wait so what's worse about shield drones now after faq?

>Before FAQ
Suit gets wounded, move it to drone, take save for drone.
>After FAQ
Suit gets wounded, move it to drone, it suffers a mortal wound, ie. no invulnerable saves.

Pathfibders got bumped up to 5 man minimum.

I'm also not sure what the benefit is. You have to pay for the models anyway right? Unless your big plan was to put 4 3 man special weapon pathfinder teams,in a Devilfish, then there's really no upside.

its cheaper

They're good, on paper at least.

Their biggest problem is that the models are expensive and look like ass.

>it's cheaper

It isn't though? You still have to pay thr minimum points for any models you don't take. A 3 man squad with 3 special weapons costs the same as a 5 man squad with 3 special weapons.

Unless they changed the rulebook while I wasn't looking

>You still have to pay thr minimum points for any models you don't take
not if its understrenght

>Page 242 – Understrength Units -- Change the second paragraph to read: ‘If you are using Power Ratings, you must still pay the Power Rating cost as if you had a minimum-sized unit, even though it contains fewer models. If you are using points, you only pay the points for the models you actually have in an understrength unit (and any wargear they are equipped with). An understrength unit still takes up the appropriate slot in a Detachment.’

Isn't one general thread enough for all 40kids? Do we have to endure one stale general for each faction now?

Go back to your pathfinder containment thread please.

Ah, my mistake. That is more beneficial then, though not greatly so in the case of pathfinders, since ypu only save 16 points.

It'd be better in the case of Crisis suits.

Also, I just realized that this means I could take Missile drones or Shieldex missile drones from a broadside or riptide without buying the main suit, and have them support something else.

Yeah it's kinda nice that you can use at least one monat suit.

>Use drone to take lasgun hit for battlesuit
>Becomes mortal wound and instantly explodes drone
Goddamn someone must have been absolutely assblasted about shield drones after playing one game vs tau in the new edition

People crying and attempting to make ghostkeel/stealthsuits work

Stealth suits are great, especially with the ATS. Only issue with ghostkeel is the drones can be shot as they are a separate unit.

I take them, sometimes two squads of 10. Deep strike, toss a single markerlight on the target and obliterate it. Their speed and gun range makes them better than plasma suits.

So what's the point of shield drones now?

Technical drone count as
repair dem suits

None really. They arent even useful in case your opponet tries to shoot them first instead, since theyll be using smaller guns to do so.

Theres really no reason for it to be mortal wounds unless they intended for you to get any saves of the battlesuit first.

I had a game last week, we had to end early, though it wasn't looking good for me. @ 1500 I had a mixed force, lacking a bit in high-strength and AP, but lots of shots. Opponent brought GKs, only putting down something like 11 models, but none with less than 3 wounds. It would have been a lot closer but his LRC with 1 wound left made something like 15 2+ saves in a row.

They're slightly better at bubble-wrapping characters, since they still need to be targeted first!

God that blows.
I thought the point was that they could role those invuln saves for characters.

That was the point, but now it's gone. Shadowsun's special shield drones don't do anything except be slightly mpre durable against the heavy voters and shit that will be coming their way to pick them off, at best. Assuming your opponent bothers with them at all, since theyre not any more valuabele than any other drone for bodyguarding.

The current general is a mess of pol posting and not 40k in the least

Single Stealth suit plus controller for the cheapest drone buff
For gundrone mobs

I think you guys underestimate how shield drones can still be a benefit. Granted they're not as good as before, but they are still good for character protection.

Let's say your commander is on the field, and there's a leman Russ tank giving him the stink eye. Lucky for you, your shield drones are standing in the way.

Because of how the rules work, the tank has to choose all targets of all weapons before rolling any dice. And because of how the rules work, even though he knows his heavy bolter sponsons should kill the drones leaving the battle cannon and lascannon open for the commander, he can't do that because he technically can't choose the commander as a target because the drones are closer, for any of his weapons. Sure you can do this with gun drones, but the shields add extra survivability. So at least for a shooting phase your commander is protected from that tank.

It's situational sure, but I think many forget how choosing targets work in this game, in that all targets must be chosen before shooting occurs.

Just my 2c

In most scenarios there are other units that could be used to annihilate the poor shield drones before the Leman Russ shoots the commander.

And most of those weapons are probably gonna be AP0 (lasguns) and thusly rendering the 4+ invul pointless. (And which AM list without its salt is gonna leave a leman russ without some cheap as shit meatshield bubblewrap?).

You can assault with them against power sword etc. wielding units and use your 4++! Well with any luck shield drones will be 5p or less when the first point balance update hits.

In this case, it really doesn't matter whether it's shield drones or any other sort of drone, or any other cheap unit between the Leman and the Commander; if the Leman doesn't have a clear shot, it simply will not shoot. That means that the defensive characteristics of the screening unit are irrelevant.

Meant for

And drones are separate units now right?
So each pair of extra drones is one unit worth of killpoints right?

Why would there be a point now, it was a panic nerf because suits were practically invulnerable with the option of 4++ into 3++. Sigmar already has this problem with bodyguarding allowing double, triple, quad layers or more of saves. The indexes must be old as shit if no one caught shield drone shenanigans before release and got rid of the "after deployment separate unit" crap.

The base save is a 3+ / 4++ in cover. Since Cover dose not add to invulnerable saves. I don't think it was super strong because you could just have the drones shot out from under you. Even easier since you split fire. The part that sucks is it was the only goodish way to give invulnerable saves to suits with out having to waste a Gun slot on already very pricey models.

just primed my 21 gun drones

a 21 gun drone salute for the shield drones?

What? You either got to save on the suit/infantry OR the drone. Not both.

So 3+ or 4++ if you picked up a shield gen(coldstar tes, otherwise no) or 4+/4++ on drone/shield drone.

Annoy sure, unbeatable no way. Just shoot the drones off with boltguns/lasguns(insert conscript meme) and without drones suits die hard to any form of AP and/or multi dmg attacks.

I made the misstake of dropping suits without drones in my first game, a lascannon predator later I learned my lesson the hard way.

Yeah. The drone bubble wrap would be annoying to be certain, especially for something like the Tau'nar, but it's not unbeatable.

If anything, they would just need to increase the price of drones so they increase in durability wasn't so cheap

>21 gun drones
>84 Str 5 shots
>Use understrength unit for like, a 35 point drone controller dude
>BS 4+ drone mob
>203 pts

84 shots
42 hits, against GEQs
18.67 wounds after saves so 10.9 points per kill

Oh right, the suit will be firing its cannon too so, 19.56 wounds after saves
10.4 points per kill

>understrength unit
This dumb shit is going to cause so much idiocy in the years to come

Personally, i just like that I can take a pair of interceptor drones without buying a sunshark.

Did some more work

Get a couple units of gun drones for say a total of 30 gun drones plus a controller stealth model, total 275 points
BS 4+, T4 and 4+, 8'' move drones
Spewing out total 62 Str 5 hits at 18''

Against GEQs
41.33 wounds, 27.56 kills
Against MEQs
41.33 wounds, 13.78 kills

Using 3.5 ppm per GEQ and 13.5 points per MEQ
Removing 96.46 points of GEQ and 186 points of MEQ in a volley, before morale mind you

>Understrength unit
Not legal unless you honestly do not own the other models for the unit. Any serious player will call you out on that shit.

Don't get used to understrength units, guys. Most events and tournaments are choosing to disallow it, simply because it's easily abusable.

But I only own 14 pathfinders =( and 3 are the old metal rail rifles.

Then run 5 and 9.

They're just doing it this way because imagine taking 1 model from each available troop type so you can take a battalion detachment with little investment

1 breacher model
1 fire warrior model
1 kroot carnivore

Enjoy all those elite, FA, and HS slots with 3cp for little investment

I get it, though I would personally say just limit to 1 per army, or maybe detachment. Not sure if you know, but back in the 4th ed guard codex, there was something called "remnant squads" which were just a bunch of lasgun guardsmen, no sergeants or special or heavy weapons, but could be tacked on to any infantry platoon.

Even if only 1 is allowed, it's still abusable. Enjoy your battalion with really only 2 troop choices.

I see no benefit or reason for tournaments especially to allow it

I think this is one of those things where you really need to talk with your opponent about it. Some people might be fine with the 1 troop trick, since they're doing it too or see it as a valid list option. Some people might see it as an abuse and not want to play it at all, and some people might just be understanding that you only have a smaller squad because thwy increased the size.
I feel it should certainly be barred from tournament play, but for a casual game I wouldn't have much problem with it myself outside of attempts to game more command points. If somebody wants to have one Centurion that theyre running solo for whatever reason though? Sure, why not.

That's what I'm saying. Friendly and narrative games it's fine. But for tournaments and events, I would say a flat ban is ideal

Tournies are shit anyway. Allow unbalanced shit like FW and other stuff that used to be apoc only.

Fusion Blades dude
Attacks 4 WS 2+
Str 8 AP-4 Dd6

On a hit roll of 1, after the phase ends fusion blades can no longer be used nor shot as blasters

yes/no?

>FW
>Unbalanced
Hey 5th edition called, they want their outdated mentally back

Well 5th is when I did a bulk of my playing. I just assumed nothing changed (seemed a fair assumption since I resumed into 7th ed)

We really don't want tournaments banning FW stuff, the 109 is going to carry us so hard I also just bought two

How would T'au fight this list:

>HQ
Warboss w/Squig, PK
Warboss w/Squig, PK
Weirdboy with Da Jump

>TROOPS
30 slugga boyz, Boss Nob w/PK
30 slugga boyz, Boss Nob w/PK
30 slugga boyz, Boss Nob w/PK
30 slugga boyz, Boss Nob w/PK

>ELITES
3x Nobs on bike, 1 w/PK, 2 w/BC
5x Nobz, Boss w/PK, 4 w/BC
Painboy w/PK, Grot
Painboy w/PK, Grot

>HEAVY SUPPORT
Battlewagon w/Deff Rolla, 'ard Case
3x Killa Kanz w/Big Shoota
Lootas x 9

Lots of flamers

Ghostkeels

Stealth suits

Drones

its footslogging so a bunch of xv9 with assault 16 weapons and sunshark bomber will do.

There are a few exceptions, but for the most part FW is overpriced gimmicks

by dumping buckets of str 5 fire
drones everywhere

It always was mostly; but things like superheavies and gargantuan creatures were super rare and only for narrative/community games; not competitive ones.

whats the best way to buy drones ? as in which box ? all bitz sites are sold out

Quick reminder there's now a Veeky Forums 40k discord

discord.gg/VcZNNd4

Put 3 with 3 special weapons each into a Droneport or Tidewall

>2. People crying and attempting to make ghostkeel/stealthsuits work
Stealth suits are MVP and ghostkeels are also amazing

>4. Nobody looks to the Forge World for more eclectic models that give you tactical advantages.
Tech Drones make the Riptide outstanding

Anyone know off hand many points/power tech drones cost? Can't download the index, at work

(My work allows Veeky Forums but not mega, it's weird)

I don't think this is the case. If you can't bring the bomber then you don't get the drones.

>It is accompanied by 2 Interceptor Drones

Wording implies that you must bring the plane.

You could bring 1 Pathfinder (8pt) and then bring a Gravity Drone and Pulse Drone with him.

3 crisis with 9 flamers
ghostkeel
stealth suits
2 missile broadsides
sunshark bomber
coldstar
FB commander
40 fire warriors + fireblade (or just a lot of drones, but I prefer the 36" range)

A tau player complaining eldar players are cheesy. Hmmm

How do you best outfit a ghostkeel?

Depends what you want it to do

EWO makes the Ghostkeel a great flank protector. If they deploy within 12" they get shot, if they deploy more than 12" they can't charge and have -2 to shoot you

I also like using anti-tank weapons (fusion collider + fusion blaster) and a Velocity Tracker and go tank/plane hunting. It's important to back it up with some more drones because those stealth drones die too quickly - I like deploying a stealth team nearby and floating the drones over to the GK, or deep striking crisis suits with 6 drones near the GK.

I usually have enough markerlights to ignore the movement penalty to skip the Target Lock. Just need to plan your movement with your shooting in mind.

ion raker, 2 burst cannons, ats, ewo
you should have markerlights on your target so moving and firing shouldn't be an issue, basically this is an anti-deep strike unit designed to delete terminators and other deep striking infantry. also a cheap loadout which makes it good. 3 fusion keels are overshadowed by 4 fusion commanders thoigh with infiltrate and 12" movement an alpha strike force of 3 keels on an armoured list could work if rolls are lucky and you focus on the list

16 pts, 1 PL per drone. Unit size 2-8.
So 32 pts or 2 PL minimum.

>I forgot, there's an extra weapon firing
>goes from 10.9 points per kill to 10.4
hmm

When is Longstrike (or Railgun hammerheads in general) worth taking?

Enemies just immediately target him with their heavy weapons and blow him up. Is there any way to protect him?

Seems like taking a Broadside with rail guns is better and they cost nearly the same. Deploy it in cover to have a 1+ save and hide some drones out of LOS to soak heavy weapons.

The only benefit I can see from them is that hammerhead railguns are S10 as opposed to S8 on Broadsides, but how much T8/T9 stuff is in the meta?

Because longstrike wounds on 2+ with the railgun and has double the chance of causing mortal wounds. Smart missiles wounding most shit on 4+. Vs pretty muc all monsters/vehicles.
And he can scoot and shoot/stand still and shoot at flyers and still hit on 2+. Add markerlight and he brings the pain.

Thanks anons!

That's the wording that a lot of drones share, that you have to deploy them next to the squad you take them with.

I feel like it'd be odd for someone to insist that doing something like that would mean you cant deploy them at all. Especially since this is only gonna be seen in casual matchups most of the time.

I like fusion collider, 2 fusion blasters (that gives you 3-6 fusion shots) a velocity tracker (or multitracker) and Target lock.

It's expensive, but he's relatively tough and formidable, a tank killer

>I feel like it'd be odd for someone to insist that doing something like that would mean you cant deploy them at all.
It wouldn't be odd, that's how the game works.

You can't bring certain kinds of drones without the unit they belong to.

Tactical Drones can be brought as a Fast Attack choice.

Just bring a FB commander instead?

He does the same thing but better and costs less points

Definitely not as much survivability though. The idea is he zips around and gets near shit that he wants to melt, surviving at least a full turn for being hard to hit

The commander will drop down just outside of melta range and die from return fire.

an 84 commander with a drone controller and missile pod to give you a legitimate vanguard detachment and a markerlight token.

>You can't bring certain kinds of drones without the unit they belong to.

With understrength units, you should be able to though. If someone only has two Shielded Missile drones and no Riptide, they could add those two drones to the list by taking a Riptide unit, and then simply not paying the points for the Riptide they don't have.

The problem is that by RAW, you have to deploy them within 3" of a model you don't have, which is why it behaves strangely.

But of course, anyone who is going to deny your ability to put Shielded Missile drones that you spent points on onto the table is probably not going to let you play with understrength units at all.

>The idea is he zips around and gets near shit that he wants to melt,
FB commander just drops into play wherever he wants

Also has 2+ bs and no heavy movement penalty or need for markerlights

Also has CHARACTER so he can't be shot unless he is the closest target

Also costs less points

He drops in outside of melta range and gets shot to shit in return fire