*blocks your path*

For the demons in Salvation War, landmines and razor wire were their worst enemy back when they tried invading Earth

Salvation Wars was some grade A HFY wank.

Chaos Demons have alot more going for them than the cannonfodder in Salvation War.

I mean not in the least the fact that death or injury is not a lasting concern for them.

I don't know anything about Salvation War, but I would think a wall of spikes would be exactly the sort of thing demons are familiar with

Fence of Razors
3R
Creature - Wall
Wither, Defender
2/4

>Salvation war reference

You forgot
Pay one white mana: Put a 1/1 token soldier creature on the battlefieldunder your control.

The Salvation War took a line from the bible, Judges 1:19
>And the LORD was with Judah; and he drove out the inhabitants of the mountain; but could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron.
and extrapolated considerably.

By making Iron poisonous to demons (and angels).
And then making the last time demons did anything militarily on earth the bronze age.

So while demons on an individual level are pretty tough (everyone expecting to fight demons face-to-face upgrades to bigger guns, as 1-on-1 nothing short of 50 cal. is putting a demon down before he's eaten your face, and senior demons are huge) they're not a match in any way for humanity's actual armies.

A wall of spikes yes, but coils of razorwire was something their tech level wouldn't really make feasible.

Seeing as the Baldricks (demons) were mildly allergic to iron and avoiding it was part of their culture/religion they primarily worked with bronze as their metal of choice. While you CAN spin bronze into razor wire, this wouldn't do jack shit with demons for two reasons
-Demons in the salvation war are basically sentient bears with a healing factor covered in thick scales, so they could probably just pull apart bronze wire like string and let their hands heal in a matter of minutes.
-Bronze doesn't hold an edge very well, and is very malleable, so bronze razor wire would be worthless even against things that are not damons

They did however have giant spiky walls, which did jack shit against predator drones and sarin gas bombs.

All their cavalry saw was an open field and a silver shimmer. Turns out it was land mines and razor wire.

Also turns out massed infantry/cavalry tactics are a bad idea when the enemy has modern artillery.

>they're not a match in any way for humanity's actual armies.
Demons in the SW series are goddamn monsters, and due to the way portaling works they could basically appear anywhere on earth at any time. Its a shame the author didn't explore the kind of hell (ha) that could have caused with supply lines. But then again, the demons don't fight like that, they have a very martial culture that favors physically dominating the enemy in a straight up confrontation, seeing as how they won the evolution lottery with their physical traits.

>demons on an individual level are pretty tough (everyone expecting to fight demons face-to-face upgrades to bigger guns, as 1-on-1 nothing short of 50 cal. is putting a demon down before he's eaten your face,
Thankfully 12 gauge slugs are a thing, those things are .80 caliber and come in a variety of exciting flavors, like expanding slugs, petal slugs, and sabot.

>Impassable
>Boosts friendly morale
>Not even tanks or fliers can pass it
>Daemons who come within an inch are stuck for the game and on the roll of a 1 instantly die

It was definitely HFY wank, but very good wank

That and I do like how many of the demons actually managed to integrate to human society in ways that ran contrary to HFY.

-10HP

Didn't the Naga put Fed Ex out of business overnight?

Oh right, so it's one of these "make everything else weak and retarded" HFYs.

Honestly it wasn't too HFY, considering just how beastly angels and demons were compared to humans (without tech)

They are ageless, physically superior, and come with a gift basket filled with cool abilities like flight, regeneration, summoning fire and lightning, and many of them have the innate ability to shift between dimensions.
Humans by comparison got fucked on the genetic sense

>"We go through Hell to deliver your mail"
Yes, instant delivery of mail. Though geo coordinates replaced addresses due to how portals work.

>make everything else weak and retarded
read the book you fucking pleb. Demons and angels are huge regenerating monsters that can appear out of nowhere and start killing, many of which can shrug off anything other than heavy machine gun fire. Yaweh has angels that can kill entire cities with their mind and several cities got melted because Hell got the bright idea to open portals under lava pools over cities he thought were producing weapons for the human army.

>read the book you fucking pleb.
>waste your time reading complete shit you fucking pleb
Nah bruh you're OK.

>"make everything else weak and retarded" HFYs.
Actually humanity nearly ran out of ammo during the invasion of Hell, that and had to figure out how to deal with all the traumatized humans found within that hadn't been tortured to death yet.
The global economy was in shambles by the end of the invasion of heaven due to total war being expensive, attention was given to how there were anti-war protesters despite the fact that the enemy was literally baby eating demons, many humans attempted to defect to both heaven AND hell.

In a biological sense humans are pretty pathetic compared to anything but the lower forms of demons, and even the lowest angel is considered near superhuman.

All in all, its the gold standard for HFY stories due to the fact it actually pays attention to the flaws in a standard HFY story.

So hardly a "Hurr everything is weak and GLORIOUS BRAVE HUMANS unify and defeat it!!!!111!!!"

>waste your time reading complete shit you fucking pleb
>Waste your time
Its impossible to waste your time
you cannot waste what is already worthless

>complete shit
Its actually pretty good

I think opening portals wasn't all that easy, unless you were a top-tier angel - I distinctly recall Belial having to get an entire team of Naga for his volcano shenanigans, so the sort of portals you need to move an army were pretty tough (and hard to close, as hell found).

But yeah, that could have been nasty, had there been the ability to target supply lines well.

The demons did try harassing humans behind their lines by opening portals and sending "berserker" demons into civilian areas on suicide runs to just kill as many humans as they could.

One said chapter had a demon appear in a shopping mall and just start butchering everyone in sight. 9mm didn't even penetrate deep enough into its skin to make it flinch, and it was only stopped when a pair of rednecks with hunting rifles put a few magazines into it, by this time it had killed a few dozen people.

Then half the media was talking about how the "ignorant racist rednecks" attacked a demon out of bigotry.

A big beserker demon can be taken down with hunting rifles and demons never went past bronze age technology?

This doesn't seem like remotely a fair fight.

>A big beserker demon can be taken down with hunting rifles
Specifically .338 lapua rounds, and it took about 16 shots to the torso before it was downed (read down, not dead) and was getting back up before the other guy showed up and put another dozen into its head.

>Demons never went past bronze age
Iron is toxic to them, and religiously non kosher. That and why spend decades of work trying to advance tech when you have the ability to hop to other dimensions, enslave the weaker local population and have them do all your labor?

>This doesn't seem like a remotely fair fight.
It wasn't, human infantry got raped by demons (sometimes literally when they reincarnated in Hell) but mechanized divisions, artillery, and air support was something they could not handle.

>.338 lapua rounds

I think what annoyed me most about the series the utter downplaying of some of the various supernatural things. Like how the demon's most powerful weapon - possession and creating portals from possessed people - is basically handwaved away by people wearing tinfoil hats and Uriel - the Angel of Death and Heaven's secret weapon they used to kill the babies in ancient Egypt, who destroys the body, mind and soul of his victim.......

...can be resisted by people not people not wanting to die.

Even dogs can resist his power.

Or how the demons with acid blood are burned by their own acid after getting shot or that demons keep in contact with earth and cause school shootings even though they don't know what guns are. Or the fact that demons have been keeping 90 billion human torture toys + their Orc slaves(because that's a thing) under control Yet still never heard about the invention of guns.

Also salvation war hilariously nerfed angels and demons from the source material. e.g. 2 Kings 19:35, where an angel comes down and just casually kills 185,000 soldiers in a single night, while 1 Chronicles 21:14-15 indicates that an angel could totally destroy all of Jerusalem, singlehandedly.

Demons and angels are supposed to be identical to each other aside from their alignments between yahweh and lucifer.

>Thankfully 12 gauge slugs are a thing, those things are .80 caliber and come in a variety of exciting flavors, like expanding slugs, petal slugs, and sabot.

If you are fighting the baldricks in shotgun range then you are already going to lose to their mob. One of them took a sniper round to the head and didn't die and the story went somewhat into detail about how small arms aren't actually enough to down them with a single clip or medium range.. Baldricks also had lightning shooting tridants that the story conveniently glosses over and I think that most of them wore armour.

I do remember the berzerker attacks, don't recall the media bit.

I do remember Clinton (at McDonalds?) though

Demonic mind reading getting introduced then immediately wiped away was a bit dumb though.

>Also salvation war hilariously nerfed angels and demons from the source material. e.g. 2 Kings 19:35, where an angel comes down and just casually kills 185,000 soldiers in a single night, while 1 Chronicles 21:14-15 indicates that an angel could totally destroy all of Jerusalem, singlehandedly.
>Demons and angels are supposed to be identical to each other aside from their alignments between yahweh and lucifer.
Honestly one of the best biblical/modern military comparisons I've seen was Good Omens, where the nuclear weapons system was called a flaming sword that turned in all directions. If your major angels, righteous or fallen, aren't swinging little bits of omnipresent wroth they aren't suitably armed, and the demiurg (or possibly his usurping storm god son if you trust the dead sea scrolls) ought to be wandering around in sandals glassing towns, thunder-clapping fortresses and transmuting fuckers to salt.

Sampson was just a judge, and he could deal with all of ISIS in three days tops, for naught but the cost of a donkey's jawbone, and presumably a large haliburton cleanup crew.

>One said chapter had a demon appear in a shopping mall and just start butchering everyone in sight. 9mm didn't even penetrate deep enough into its skin to make it flinch, and it was only stopped when a pair of rednecks with hunting rifles put a few magazines into it, by this time it had killed a few dozen people.
>Then half the media was talking about how the "ignorant racist rednecks" attacked a demon out of bigotry.
This sounds like OH JOHN RINGO NO levels of id.

I will stick to my current Gene Wolfe and Gertrude Bennett fantasy books all the same senpai.

It is terribleness given printed form, techwank made manifest! Internet tantrums herald its arrival, and flamewars mark its path!

The Salvation War is bad. it's really, really, singularly awful. I'm talking Author soapboxes, humanity wank of the 'humans vs retards variety', an utter lack of tension, a lack of memorable, interesting (human)characters, and the story taking potshots against people who disagreed with the author in the thread where the story was first posted.

It's badly written, has story beats/arcs that don't go anywhere and during battles, multiple paragraphs of text get used to describe every newly introduced weapon system, only to end the tangent with some variation of "it killed the demon(s), very messily"

It is frankly, a terrible excuse for literature.

>Avoid it all costs.

He's not a real wolf, you know.

again, if god can't turn his foes to pillars of salt and manifest tempestuous doom and geological damage by his mere presence you're not going old testament, and if you go new testament then all that oppose him are cut down by providence before they can begin to exist, unless he wants to get suitably-advanced-tech robot extension of himself to go teach a lesson for the sake of drama. Spontaneous combustion, or FTL attacks from other points in time are a problem when facing God, or anything worth pertaining to be God, but with the genuine article the threat is retroactively making all of your decisions wrong by changing universal constants from outside of time.

What the hell does any of that have to do with what i said?

I'm really high and a renaissance art history buff, and was mainly just riffing on how biblical forces ought to actually stack up against a modern military.

>how biblical forces ought to actually stack up against a modern military.
I don't know about that. When Lot was extracted by angels from Soddom, they clearly stuck out, and the local populace attacked his residence. When confronted the two angels (extraction agents) used crowd control weapons to blind and deafen the attackers (similar to flash bangs) Then once Lot and his family (plus angels) were outside of the blast radius, the city was destroyed.

His wife was only killed because she looked back. I'll interpret this as they got behind cover and his wife stepped out of cover to look and was turned to a "pillar of salt" I say it could have been a "pillar of ash" and been the same visual.

Sounds like a city killing bomb

Basically anything biblical forces did back in the day we can pretty easily do now, we just dont because we as a species are becoming gradually less of asswipes than God

forgot GIF
but basically biblical powers aren't that impressive compared to what we can do today.

Burning bush? Hologram.
Ten plagues of Egypt? Biological warfare.

>iron is toxic to demons

Then why invade a world where iron is the most common metal and incorporated into every organism on it?

This is invading Russia in winter tier retarded.

In War of the Worlds the advanced alien invaders had no concept of microbiology, and it's still considered a classic of literature.

>no concept of microbiology
no natural resistance to terrestrial pathogens and a fuckload of hubris.

Just how classic is War of the Worlds considered anyway? I only ever hear about it in reference to that time it was read on the radio and caused a shitshow

Genuinely curious, what country are you from?

>iron is toxic to demons
You are overestimating the toxicity
Demons can eat humans (and do/did) and be totally fine, but handling iron or breathing in iron dust makes them sick or gives them rashes/reduces their healing factor.

That and Satan forbade anyone from working with it

Dude, I say this as a non-christian, you are simplifying things way too much. You are stacking humans to one of God's works. This is literally hubris. You are extrapolating things to a ridiculous amount. Angels could be thought of as agents in the same vein as I could think of my daughter as a mathematician because she can do arithmetic. God can will his servants to do the unreal, while we are bound to the laws that He made. If He wants to spare the virtuous and those who obey Him, He will. Interpretation does not equate to reality.

TLDR: You're a HFY poster. Stop it.

>God can will his servants to do the unreal, while we are bound to the laws that He made
And Kim Jong Un can control the weather and talk to dolphins so sayeth the holy propoganda

I'm gonna say that the bible could all be so much propoganda keeping the ignorant savages in line until they are smart enough to see through the smoke and mirrors.
In the SW series, angels and demons are sufficiently advanced aliens until we surpass them in scientific achievement because they had a massive head start.

Its mentioned by Archangel Michael that there was a point where the forces of heaven could have stepped in at any moment and crushed humanity up until WWII rolled around, and that Michael sat there and watched it happen because he was fed up with Yaweh and didn't want to report what was going on with Earth.

That and other pantheons may still exist, who might be tougher than Yaweh or Satan

That change is even more retarded when you take into context of that specific situation.
This is the verse which most people refer to with the Iron Chariot thing. For the most part, general interpretations of this verse say that although the lord condoned the Israelites in their attempts, the Israelites did not call out for god, and god did not directly intervene.

God himself has no trouble negating chariots after all in different battles.

>During the last watch of the night the Lord looked down from the pillar of fire and cloud at the Egyptian army and threw it into confusion. He jammed the wheels of their chariots so that they had difficulty driving.

Exodus 14:24-25

>Burning bush? Hologram.

Nobody is looking at the burning bush as a """"feat"""" for god/angels.

>Ten plagues of Egypt? Biological warfare.

>Turns the Nile/every water resovour in Egypt to blood.

>Summons a plague of boils on all the animals and people in Egypt.

>Kills every firstborn child in Egypt over a single night.

>Turns all the dust in Egypt into an equal mass of lice.

Locusts enough to cover the land completly.

>They will cover the face of the ground so that it cannot be seen. They will devour what little you have left after the hail, including every tree that is growing in your fields. They will fill your houses and those of all your officials and all the Egyptians—something neither your fathers nor your forefathers have ever seen from the day they settled in this land till now.

Also the 11th plague was going to just be god wiping out Egypt altogether.

Sereusly you are just plain old incorrect about this.

Do we know if those ones in Egypt were iron chariots?

Iron war chariots were a weapon out of speculative fiction for the era, it's like saying that God can't make a bunch of infantrymen equal to the terminator, or nanomachines, son, not that iron chariots are YHWH's kryptonite.

>tfw no Vengeance of Horus in retaliation for the Plagues and the misuse of his mother's name

Looking back on it, this post is pretty spot on.
It's pure wank, and considering the fact that Hell got steamrolled and Heaven never got a chance to put up an actual fight, it's really not even worth reading for the battles alone, unless you're the type that loves to read somewhat dully written scenes of complete and utter annihilation.

Yes, thats a less generous reading, specifically for that instance, but as I recall the phrasing in that bit Lot's wife was not just burned, but carbonized where she stood, to the point of being rendered a mineral like substance instantly and in place. A more generous reading says this is a weapon more powerful than a mere bomb, and is some 'divine radiance' that God can manifest. It may have been a MOAB, it could have also been a kugelblitz black hole or a speck of antimatter that sprung into existence when and where god wanted.

A number of the plagues could be biological weapons, but a number of them couldn't, and are serious points of WTF level environmental control, and any mechanism that produced the effect that split the red sea could presumably be used offensively. We get an example of this with the Flood, and god's ability to transmute matter on a small and massive scale is frequently brought up. Turning water to wine is no threat, but not so with turning rivers to blood or nerve gas. Just dealing with god's personal physical attack potential can put him at weaker than modern militaries, or grant him molecular to subatomic matter manipulation on an unbounded scale.

Just sticking with Old Testament god, he can also pull such tricks a memetic weapons that break languages, and ineffability in strategy bordering on providence. He's omniscient, but doesn't think of all things at once, and he misplaced and forgot the hebrews in egypt for about four hundred years before they got his attention again.

New testament God has a bunch of metaphysical superweapons and weaponized no-limits-fallacies, all the purely physical/elemental wrath of the old testament, if you go with Augustinian temporal grace YHWH can just sit outside of the universe/time with a four dimensional vantage point on all of creation, from which point he can fiddle with providence and the course of events from outside and over top of causality like a solipsistic downstreamer

They had eradicated diseases in their distant past, it became a dead (heh) field of study for them probably.

It wad a good read by my standards, certainly a classic.

>tech level

Shouldn't demons just, y'know, summon razorwire out of thin air? Why the fuck would they make anything.