/srg/ - Shadowrun General

in fact, if you expected realistic ANYTHING from SR we have some bad news

There's no way they just made North America static since the civil war that split up the continent. I know the Corporate Council annexed some stuff, and there was border skirmishes between the Tir Tangerine and California, but surely the entire continent must be rich with strife from the reverse apartheid.

see

Hey /srg/, I've got a question about the use of Control Thoughts as opposed to Control Actions.

By RAW, both spells are similar, except Control Thoughts is apparently "harder to notice" than Control Actions because you actually direct what the target thinks as opposed to forcibly moving their body as with Control Actions.

By its description, "The magician mentally
gives commands with a Standard Action, and the target is compelled to obey as if it were his own idea."

If the magician were to command a target to shoot themselves in the head, would they just do it if they failed the corresponding Logic + Willpower test? Using Control Actions, it would take a Complex Action to make the target do the same thing, except they'd be more likely to notice. So why would you ever use Control Actions over Control Thoughts when Control Thoughts is not only less noticeable, but also only takes a Standard Action?

I'm on the fence about whether or not I'd let Control Thoughts just make somebody off themselves, because I'd find it hard to believe someone would immediately decide to act on a random suicidal impulse out of nowhere. Killing someone else, maybe, but killing themselves seems like too much of a stretch for something like this.

Of course, someone could also say "well if you can use Control Actions to force someone to shoot themselves, why couldn't you use Control Thoughts to get them to do the same thing?" I'd argue that Control Thoughts would just be a direct upgrade to Control Actions in that case because someone's less likely to notice they're being affected by it.

So what do you think are the reasonable limits for what Control Thoughts would be able to accomplish?

My group loves it.

Holy shit. Our rigger decided to take a dose of K10 to help him in a fight and he beat 2 werewolves to death with his bare hands.

Did the whole collapse of Communism happen in Shadowrun or not? It's really unclear, especially considering the Eurowar was the Warsaw Pact versus... Well, the rest of Europe. But for some reason Poland was fighting against the Warsaw Pact? And they make no mention of Bulgaria, Romania, etc.

By werewolves, do you mean shifters, or some kind of man-wolf hybrid created by your GM?

It didn't happen in the original version of Shadowrun, because it was made back when the Soviet Union existed. Then they retconned it in really badly.

Likely means Loup-Garou

But 4E (I think it was 4E anyways) mentions the Soviet Union invading Europe. Is Europe in Shadowrun just stuck in some odd meta-limbo where no one knows what to do with it?

I wonder what future generations will ask about North Korea

YOU FUCKING LIAR!!!!!!!

HOW CAN *ANYONE* LIKE A GAME THAT DISCARDS ALL THOSE FUCKING RULES THAT ARE AT THE *CORE* OF THE SHADOWRUN UNIVERSE??!!!

NEXT THING YOU'LL TELL ME IS THAT THE SHADOWRUN GAMES JORDAN WEISMAN DEVELOPED WERE ACTUALLY GOOD!!!

>Well yes you may shoot me but between my bone lacing, orthoskin, armored slav vest and the fuck high body you will at best piss me off
>Fuck

I also thought she was pointing the gun at him. Then I took another look and realized she was just looking at the gun because it's actually pointed sideways and the artist is just really bad at making that apparent.

I'd say that unless you have a target that's inclined to suicide or suicidal thoughts, not much happens if you use Control Thoughts to make a person have an idea to shoot themselves.

At least immediately. Once they get off work they probably start drinking or partying more than normal because goddamn, this was a shitty day. Or perhaps they do it now if they think they can get away with slacking off some.

Of course, if they are suicidal or prone to sucidal thoughts you probably then have a corpse on your hands. Or, more hopefully, somebody taking a break to take their meds.

well huh
you are correct and I have made fool out of myself

Well there was gif that one annon posted that showed all the wars and shit in north america
If I could only find it

>skinweave in CP2020

Found it
As you can see not so static
As why UCAS is not stomping the NAN
According to Forbidden Arcana UCAS have more trained mages and better millitary but have no idea how to stop Great Ghost Dance 2.0 that will send everything to hell

>playing ork face girl character with a 6 loyalty drug dealer contact that in-game has known my character for years
>get a call from her, says it's important
>meet up at cafe
>tells me the dealing business isn't safe anymore, wants to quit and live with husband
>wants to settle down with him, only one problem
>she wants a kid but is barren, so wants my character to be a Surrogate
>thanks to paying off some people to get her out of the biz, she's flat broke, so a new womb was outside the possibility
>says she'll give my character some time to decide on if she can help her
>mfw not sure if this an earnest, well-meaning character arc that two people that would go to hell and back for each other would do, or if this a magical realm the GM has worked to get into the game for months

My only big issue is that the NANs have no basis on which to survive. Do you have any idea how massive of a guerrilla movement the Europeans in those counties would form? Not only are they relatively well armed, they have the Treaty of Denver as their Versailles. The timeline there really doesn't get to just how unstable those nations would be. Most of the wars in that timeline are Euro-on-Euro conflicts, where the UCAS would certainly be absolutely furious about getting Versailles'd. If anything, it'd lead to another general North American war, probably with exchange of tactical nuclear weapons (Which still work in Shadowrun) and the natives doing their Ooka Shaka Boom Ghost Dance Part Two Electric Listerine-u.

But I guess that would make North America not too suitable for campaigns. I'm just pissed I can't run Shadowrun in my city because it's in one of those damn stupid native countries

Hey Hey
Chummer
Wanna know the super secret rule of shadowrun?
No one plays the cannon setting(well except missions)
If you want X do be different nothing is stopping you from doing so

What games are you in? Everyone I know plays canon.

In one where CFD does not exist, some books are ignored and Corporations are making different moves from the book.
The idea is that after the first run you are no longer playing cannon setting. You may ended up killing Damien Knight, steal the dragon remains from the Azzies or nuke the Mars Colony. All of this not cannon.
On the other hand the GM may adjust or change the metaplot to fit his needs and player enjoyment.
"No one plays the cannon setting" should not be taken literally. Still you can change the setting as much as you want and no one is there to stop you.

Why not both?

Is the Cavalier Deputy a good enough gun for an arm-of-god Decker who plans to let the sammy and mage to most of the heavy lifting in combat?

I like the idea that this was just a casual gift he gave her on a date.
That this is actually a nice romantic moment between two runners.

That makes sense. I assumed user was saying that everyone just ignores Shadowrun's core timeline (A-la making North America look a lot different).

>hurr my setting with elves and dragons has some improbable societal structuring

I'm sorry "The People's Democratic Republic of Listerine" is the step over the line for me.

>"The People's Democratic Republic of Listerine" is the step over the line for me.
fucking Colgate supporters
your kind will be the first to hang

ASFAIK, none of the NAN other than the
Sioux still discriminate agianst non-natives by 2079, and the Sioux are pretty much a borderline rogue nation (they're stupidly paranoid, and I tend to house-setting them as being a poorly disguised military junta). And the UCAS and CAS have bigger fish to fry than reclaiming their old territory.

I know nothing about the beastiary and I had no ranks in any useful knowledges so he didn't tell me. I just know it was a big scary wolf thing.

I like to imagine it only works if the thought is reasonable, or if doing it would be really easy. Like, if you're near a cliff and jump off, then it'd be quick and whoops. On the other hand, shooting onself would be basically "brings gun up to head, and then being like whoops, what was I thinking?"

Why would you choose it, besides the relative cheapness? Hog deckers should be able to use suppressing fire, which means FA capable, which means machine pistol or submachine gun.

>And the UCAS and CAS have bigger fish to fry than reclaiming their old territory.
Like what?

I think revolvers are cool, and the rest of the party is kitted up enough with suppression-capable weapons that I feel I can let optimization slide in favor of style.

Sorry, you said hog, and I thought you wanted to matter in combat. You can definitely go Deputy and shoot a guy or two in style.

Well for a while for the UCAS it was Chicago, and now they have Boston. And the CAS has to deal with Aztlan almost constantly. And the massive war that would be required to reconquer North America is very much bad for the business of the Megacorps that really run the show.

Chicago and Boston are hardly excuses to quell imperialism, especially when you would likely have masses of Europeans calling for reclamation of the old lands (Including those who are delegated to second class citizen status in the native nations). With more military power, more general support from the continent, and megacorp backing there's hardly any reason why the UCAS hasn't at least attempted to reclaim land.

Also, the Megacorps would WANT a general North American war. That gives you more arms sales, alongside tanks, helicopters, fuel, etc, etc. You also have to remember that the NANs regulate megacorps so it would be in their best interest to promote European reconquista of North America.

Also the well proven fact of history that you don't Versailles a nigga and get away with it.

And how dead was he afterwards?

Although why wouldn't they do that? 4th edition had very little source material on the world compared to 3rd, and 5th has even less so at this point it might just be easier to fix stuff from the start on your own. Use what you can and change what you can't.

>Also the well proven fact of history that you don't Versailles a nigga and get away with it.
You can if you occupy them for a half century while you both have a common enemy.

I'm fairly certain the BRD/DDR's situation was a lot different from the UCAS'.

user, you are forgetting one very important and powerful factor that has cowed many nations: Being accused of racism.

...

Do dragons take selfies?

>Do dragons take

Yes, always.

Nope. They make someone else take the picture.

Literally 1 physical box left. We were all surprised after doing the math, we just assumed he'd die when it wore off.

>Cannot fucking act.jpg
Eh?

Are there any good SR rule books that have examples of how high tech security works? For example systems that exist in corporate buildings that are put in place to prevent intrusion and runners.

Well you never pop a K10 without expecting to die.

Two things:
One, I wanna fuck Hestaby
Two, do the Tangerines act racist to elf metavariants? Or where would a variant elf fall on their social food chain

In her true form?

Either man orange queen could sit on my face and kill me and I'd say thanks. I'd deal with a dragon for some of her tang or is it Shasta?

Pregnancy is a pretty rough negative trait to accept just for a contact Omae.

But honestly, think about what your character would say while also factoring in the danger of their life to the unborn Kiddo.
Can they afford the months out of work?

I want to be as attracted to Hestaby as you are. Suggested readings? Pic only related bc sexiness

Dwarves get a boost to Willpower.

Would that mean that they are less prone to alcoholism, and addiction to vices in general?

Meant to include a detail about how I saw Baby Driver at the theater today, and it seemed like a low-level shadowrun gone bad. The main characters just needed to include metahumans and it wouldn't have been out of place.

The main character (that pic) is played by an actor who exhibits almost no emotion except for dancing.

>The main character (that pic) is played by an actor who exhibits almost no emotion except for dancing.

To be fair, some audiences like that sort of thing.

It would mean that their least and most prone examples are less prone than those of most other metatypes.

Seven Seven and FAB with judicious application of tac nukes would be a good decap strike and pretty much neuter any shamans powerful enough for GGD 2.

The problem is that in order to prevent things from going off again down the road, you'd have to effectively genocide the Natives, and that'd piss off the PC police at CGL.

You can't apply logic to Shadowrun, you have to homebrew appropriate settings.

Or just set your group in the CAS and have them work against the Azzies in Texas.

Like Pregnancy is tough, and you'd be sitting out of runs for at least six months. If your character would go for it and can afford it, sure.

However, why not find another contact who could fill in? Call in a favor to help out a good friend in need neh? If the dealer is dead set on it being your character's womb then it's definitely GM magical realm.

>and that'd piss off the PC police at CGL.

That and a lot of the world. Countries are not powerless in Shadowrun (Even if they are a lot less powerful than they used to be) and most corps wouldn't be down with the PR nightmare of 'Helped genocide'.

It's 2075. Just give her an egg and let someone grow it in a tube. Or get some other metahuman to be the carry it. Or adopt one. Your imagination is the limit.

>flat broke
Then make her explain in detail how she is planning to raise this kid to become anything other than sinless barrens trash. If she insists, then keep slapping her until she dies or realizes what a stupid idea this is.

Smallpox 2.0 is also an option. The CAS retained the CDC hq in Atlanta didn't they?

You say that, but it's just a war. Most people in the Sixth World wouldn't bat an eye at the use of chemical and nuclear weapons in a conflict, probably. And besides, if the NANs can handle being the 8% minority and suppress the Europeans, the UCAS can easily suppress the 8% of the population under them that is Native.

You mean like how everyone banded together to save the poor Yucatan Rebels, or help out Amazonia with a multinational peace-keeping force?

Yeah, me fucking neither omae.

>The logical outcome in a realistic situation would be genocide to prevent opposition.

Damn those PC writers for being unrealistic.

>Dark future cyberpunk setting
>Doesn't go full dark
Why even bother?

>Mother, when did Glorious United Korea free the capitalist slaves of the world from the American pigdogs?

Considering that grudges will be held, and more shamans will be born? Yes. Genocide is the only answer. Indoctrination never has a 100% success rate and it only ever takes one martyr.

He and his girlfriend were by far the low points of the movie. All the secondary characters were not only better acted, but better written as well.

I mean if you want to dance around in the ruins of a nuclear wasteland sure go all the way.

But there's a reason why we don't go full on nuclear wars or use biological weapons. Mutual trust (threats) between nations.

I can't really argue that it would be the most effective solution. If you're ignoring both the international and national consequences.

But that would be illogical to take into account.

The general idea is that between the uncounted but larger native population (which stretched to include anyone who could plausibly lie about being 1/64 Cherokee), VITAS fucking up the poor little white boys, the Awakening making small towns unlivable, and the forced migrations, only people who wanted to be in the NAN stayed in those territories. Hardliner natives mostly died out the next generation, now it's just regular nativism and a few die-hards at places like OMI who have spent 60 years stockpiling weapons and practising on local terrorists and foreign shadowrunners, waiting for whitey to make a move.

And let's not forget Aztlan, the NAN state that is still regularly warring with the South.

>I tend to house-setting them as being a poorly disguised military junta

That's more or less canon. Shadows in Focus Sioux was basically about the power struggle between paranoid old shamans who remember when Howling Coyote was around, hotshot young warchiefs looking to make a mark on society, and OMI standing in the corner, breathing heavy and fondling their knives.

What consequences? After watching what Aztlan got away with in Amazonia I'm surprised the UCAS and CAS aren't working on terror weapons to surpass the Sangre de Diablo tree.

So you're saying there's a lot of territory and resources with relatively low, yet concentrated populations?

If only there were some weapons that were really good at wiping out urban areas. It's on the tip of my tongue.

The NAN tried to restrict Megas. Now one of them (can't remember if it's Horizon or EVO) owns the biggest 'native' corp and cornered the native food market without anyone noticing.

Open war is actually not a thing the corps want, not between powers that have the opportunity to flip the chessboard and ruin the game for everyone. They do well enough raping the land (like Tsimshan), undercutting their opponents with subsidies (like the aforementioned Wind River Corp.), and playing a half-dozen bickering minor American nations againsy each other to think that a temporary boost to arms sales is worth the long-term problems of a renewed USA.

Core book, GM section has some stuff

>think that a temporary boost to arms sales is worth the long-term problems of a renewed USA.
Easy, just fund a coup in the UCAS, and install a pro-corporate regime. Then you unite the lands and have a happy little state-sponsored monopoly.

You could also try the 3e Corporate Security Handbook.

One of many problems with your idea is that the Great Ghost Dance was done by nobodies, with no idea what they were doing, and no special resources. You can't decapitate something you don't understand that was done in a cave with a box of scraps.

If they can do it, why hasn't it happened again? Or anywhere else on the planet for that matter?

>It was done by nobodies.
>With no leadership to remove.

"Who was Daniel Howling Coyote?"
>lolidunno

You should take a breath between fellating the NANs user.

That oxygen deprivation isn't doing your brain any favors.

The NAN isn't actually that concentrated. White people were, parts of the NAN have literally gone to nomadic followers of herds because you can still get wifi in 2077. Also, you forget that they have a military as well. The entire Sioux Nation is geared towards blowing the shit out of the first wave with their own advanced weaponry systems, then innawoods gureillas until White Buffalo Woman comes.

Also, nobody is tossing around nukes. Nobody. The closest we get to that is people threatening Thor Shots, and a Firewatch team setting off a small one in the Chicago hive that didn't even work right.

Except that's exactly why Operation Reciprocity. Monopolies are a death sentence - the while house of cards only works because the corps agree to not cut each other out.