Games that were a mistake

>Games that were a mistake

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fpbp

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The game where everyone shitposts all the time.

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/thread

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your favorite game

Nice trailer, though.

Is the picture to the right really what I think it is? Surely that is fanart and not actual art of the cosmology?

Oh, boy it's real alright. There's a reason why even lorefags hate smegmar

Is there any more horrific shit like this? Lore, art, anything?

It's definitely a thing that didn't need to exist.

Well, time to go back to being an alcoholic again.

Would FATAL be a mistake or has it become memetic enough to earn its place?

It's responsible for the removal of Virt so it's earned its right to exist.

>Famous Grouse

My tartan nigga

>the Great Droning
>the Shimmerfall of Majesty
>Mount Draksuvius

>Nice trailer, though.
It really was a nice trailer.

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>Pool of Tranquility
>Here be Wyrr-Maggots
>Savage seven day air war

Oof, it's like it was written by 10 year old, this is what we name things when we played as children, not young adults but children.

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Is this the game that's missing rules for attacking and stuff?

Has anyone here tried it?

100% comissioned and canon art friendo.

They're clearly taking the piss out of the genre, DEATHSKULL NIGGA-MOUNTAIN, RAIN OF BITCH ASS HOES, BITCH-ASS-NIGGA THAT'S WEAK AS SHIT NIGGA HOE MAUSOLEUM

What´s so bad about Pathfinder?

Warhammer 40k (all editions)
DnD 4e

Ivory Tower design and designers who don't understand their own system leading to a giant pile of character options that are useless or even actively negative.

Plus a setting that manages to be both bland and a clusterfuck at the same time, caster supremacy out the ass, and the game trains its players to think of campaigns in terms of CR, WbL and other boring shit.

And then you join a game in which people have builds that work fantastically well and you are left being unable to contribute to the party in any meaningful way.

youtube.com/watch?v=zFuMpYTyRjw

>Plus a setting that manages to be both bland and a clusterfuck at the same time
So I'm not the only one who noticed.
The blandness seem to be done on purpose though. Retro classic it seems.

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T H I C C fags have gone too far.

Why didn't you ask the other players, who understand the system better than you, for help with your character?

Nah. Savage worlds is great. Also I now believe you are a massive faggot.

What even is this?

Fun fact: 23 years after release, the original publishers still have brand new, shrinkwrapped/as-sent-from-printer copies of both this and its supplement, which they still sell for the same price they sold for in 1993. Only a few, mind you, but they do have them.

I bought a copy of both.

t /pol/turd mad at a piexe of superior liberal performance art

Fuck me, mate, now I'd want a copy of my own

amazon.com/dp/1881171000?m=AT1ERY2JR24ZQ&ref_=v_sp_detail_page
amazon.com/dp/1881171019?m=AT1ERY2JR24ZQ&ref_=v_sp_detail_page

Three copies of the core books left in stock, 7 of the supplement. $50 US + shipping.

I was a second away from placing my order, but I bitched out. Wasn't worth it for a mantlepiece item, so there's at least one more.

World of darkness, all editions.

WoD:Gypsies

But it was good actually.

Is that Quelaag's sister?

Because he probably picked a martial

That trailer got me so fucking hyped, but as soon as the first screenshot came out, all of that left.

I am not gonna lie.
I kinda like the idea of a levitating giant tree.

The animations were absolutely hilarious though.
The krogan fight in particular could split sides at 100 metres.

Gorgutz had some good moments

Link to that or is it a specific cut scene that would show up on youtube if searched?

samefag detected

Those last three were posted inside a minute of each other, champ. Are you sure you've got this samefag concept down?

m.youtube.com/watch?v=jDit1WO12fs
Honestly, the lisping camp Krogan trying to sound badass is even funnier. Especially when you realise it's supposed to be female.

>hurr durr what are other devices
wew lad

What the fuck was that. It was more like brotaps than anything else.

The result of 5 years and 40million dollarydoos

It's nearly impossible to create a system with multiple character creation choices where every single choice will be equally balanced and viable against every single other choice in every situation. People literally criticise the Pathfinder designers for not being able to succeed at the impossible.

The only way to achieve is to create a bland homogenised system like 4E or to a lesser degree 5E where there's far, far less interesting options and everybody pretty much plays exactly the same with a few minor variations between each. While this is arguably 'balanced' it doesn't create a particularly interesting role playing game as an RPG isn't meant to be a white grid tactical combat simulator.

>The only way to achieve is to create a bland homogenised system like 4E or to a lesser degree 5E where there's far, far less interesting options and everybody pretty much plays exactly the same with a few minor variations between each.
In truth, 3.PF has the least variance of any D&D game released in D&D's history because once you actually understand how to build an optimized character, you'll realize that there's only like 3-4 ways to build a particular class that will allow them to remain relevant throughout the campaign.
>While this is arguably 'balanced' it doesn't create a particularly interesting role playing game as an RPG isn't meant to be a white grid tactical combat simulator.
And yet that's how most 3.PF games play out because there's nothing substantial in the rules which actually makes, say, tackling a dude off a cliff or knocking a tree over on a horde of goblins more viable than breaking cover, rushing over, and (full) attacking until one side is dead.

Because "don't pick a martial" isn't good game advice nor design.

>caster supremacy

in what world where arcane and divine magic exists is the local boxer on equal footing with a grand wizard?

Its the group dynamic thats important. You want to be OP and make the game a terrible experience for the rest of your party go for it, but you could instead be something else.

People are their own worst enemy here when they min/max to extreme levels and break the game at the price of their fellow players enjoyment.

>in what world where arcane and divine magic exists is the local boxer on equal footing with a grand wizard?

In classic Swords and Sorcery and other fantasy stories and myths that the game is supposedly meant to emulate fighters are often

Conan is always bitch slapping wizards.

Aragon, Gimli and Legolas are incredibly central and powerful characters within LoTR.

King Arthur is the main character , not Merlin.

Odysseus defeats the sorceress Circe by charging her with his sword.

The issue is that the books aren't ever clear that full casters are on a different level entirely than martials , pretending they're on the same footing and the sheer power of casters in being able to do everything with a cherry on top with little downside.

Just because magic theoretically could do anything in a setting doesn't mean it has to and really it shouldn't be able to to be interesting.

Wrexfacepalming.beacon. What the fuck was that. Krogans are supposed to fight by literally bull-charging each other head on until one or both are dead.

Literally all of those fucking figures are extraordinary or supernatural in some way and/or were in a setting where magic was more based off of rituals than D&D's "spend a slot and nuke the field" type casting.

The issue comes from the fact that Martials are generally worthless sacks of shit that are a waste of paper and if you try to make them viable in some way, people will shit on your game until you make martials shitty again, at least in regards to D&D's clusterfuck of a system.

Like go ahead, tell me of one adventure path where the BBEG was actually a humanoid martial in some way? Show me a high leveled threat that was human in some way yet was still a threat without the aid of magic?

You can't, because they don't exist.

>in what world where arcane and divine magic exists is the local boxer on equal footing with a grand wizard?

None, but that's like asking in what setting/system the 1st level character is on par with the 20th.
Now, if you want to compare Conan and Merlin for low-but-not-too-low level characters, go for it.
Or comparing Hercules and Gandalf for some higher power options.

>Like go ahead, tell me of one adventure path where the BBEG was actually a humanoid martial in some way? Show me a high leveled threat that was human in some way yet was still a threat without the aid of magic?

Kingmakers Stag Lord

I don't think he's talking about first-book enemies. Like the Stag Lord is a challenge to a 4th level party.

And even then, only if he doesn't fail the save vs. the Witch's sleep hex.

How about Diomedes, who had no divine heritage yet beat down Ares, pimpslapped Aphrodite and chased off Apollo all in a single battle. Yes, he asked Athena for her blessing/permission beforehand, but that was just avoiding punishment for hubris in a mortal attacking a god.

By the way, every caster ever has been a deity, demigod or part demon of some sort. You don't get to claim that it's okay for wizards to suddenly just be getting powers from study and not allow fighters to accomplish great feats just by training and badassery.

He had no divine heritage, but he was wielding artifacts:

The god Hephaestus made Diomedes' cuirass for him. He was the only Achaean warrior apart from Achilles who carried such an arsenal of gear made by Hera's son.

>wizards vs martials

Half the problem is banning all martial abilities beyond 100% modern homo sapiens because of the meme that anything preternatural is magic, martials can't do magic, therefore they are limited to gritty RL materialism.

Thank mythologically illiterate fedoras for that.

A high level fighter needs to do shit a modern human physically can't. Rip off Chinese history, Greek history, Exalted, Malazan, I don't care.

To assuage the haters, break martials out of a 20 level progression into multiple classes. Gritty warrior from 1-5, paladin from 5-10, demigod from 10-15, and so on.

There are plenty of stories where a mortal gains godlike power from researching arcane tomes, so it's okay for wizards to suddenly gain powers from studying because the shit that their studying is arcane in nature.

A dude suddenly being able to kick mountains across continents because he didn't skip leg day is fucking stupid though, because there's no basis for a dude gaining that type of boon from training outside of anime shit. If you're going to have martials that are equivalent to a mage, stop being a little bitch and just say that the dude is using a type of magic himself.

It's straight up retarded to say "Oh, this Monk? He's using Ki, but he's still a martial, so he should suck ass, because muh spell slots."

And that's different from having a good set of high level gear in a game how? Sure it would be nice if martial classes could get away with mundane weapons forever and magic stuff was icing on the cake, but that tends not to be an issue outside of the systems we complain about anyway.

>Assmad pathfag
Nobody likes your system, and nobody likes your playerbase either.

>i was kicked out of my group and now nobody will play with me
wew lad

>because there's no basis for a dude gaining that type of boon from training outside of anime shit. If you're going to have martials that are equivalent to a mage, stop being a little bitch and just say that the dude is using a type of magic himself.

You are the cancer. Dudes doing crazy shit because they are inherently badass is mythologically common, no magic involved.

Okay, name five of these "plenty" of classical stories and myths where a plain mortal suddenly turned into a world-shaking caster from reading a tome. Because Merlin, Circe, Baba Yaga and so forth are all partly divine or more. And even if you could find a witch or wizard that was human, they were more of what we consider a cleric, getting their powers from bargains with otherworldly forces. Not to mention that nothing in classic sources has anywhere near the breadth and depth of powers available to d20 casters.

Keyword here sunshine
>mythological
Random peasant #2548 isn't going to behead a Gorgon or strangle a Nemean Lion to death but Perseus and Hercules doing it is fine because they're demigods that are far above the confines or ordinary humans.

And as much as you hate to admit it, martials are the unnamed peasants of character classes because there's nothing that they can do that affects the narrative in the same way that a caster does with only a single cast of their spells.

>Find me five examples
>Except for these specific examples which BTFO's my own argument

>the system is broken, therefore attempts to fix it are wrong
>Fantasy humans throwing lightning is acceptable but fantasy humans being extra strong is not.

Level is supposed to correlate across classes, but it failed. That's why tiers exist. Are you the last person on Veeky Forums to realize this?

>random superstrong peasants don't exist

Someone hasn't read the Water Margin. I don't know why I bother, this is a pearls/swine scenario.

Why wouldn't two classes at the SAME LEVEL be similarly effective? What is the word even supposed to mean, otherwise?

So artifacts aren't a viable option for martials? Well give me Aphrodite's dildo and fuck me silly, then.

If the system actually failed then the tiers system wouldn't exist at all. In fact, the tier system proves that the system isn't broken because as long as you have a party that's within the same tier (or at least within one degree of separation) then you're good.
If they're the protagonist then they aren't really random chief.

You claimed there are plenty of examples of normal people reading a tome and becoming powerful wizards. I countered with "no, you had to be a divine being to use magic and here are some examples". Now, give some sort of proof regarding your pathetic claims of "hard study can totally make you a wizard in classic sources".

The truth is that if you make a system where wizards can get there through study, you have to also allow martials to be great through training. If martials require divinity to do impressive things, then so does being a caster.

>PCs aren't protagonists so PC humans cannot be extra strong

You're reaching new lows.

>in what world where arcane and divine magic exists is the local boxer on equal footing with a grand wizard?
One where magic exists but has strict limits on what it can do, and anyone who attempts to go outside those limits does so at their own peril?

You act like there's this absolute dichotomy between "magic doesn't exist" and "magic can do literally anything with no consequences." There isn't. Magic is whatever you want it to be, and if you want it to be a subtle art that requires cunning to use properly, then that's how magic works.

It's more of an issue that a wizard can do anything without any real downside. Spells used to take uninterrupted time to cast and it was the fighters job to keep the wizard safe while he was vulnerable casting. Now wizards can cast spells that not only nuke the field during their turn, but can also fly/ turn invisible/ have constant protection from arrows and melee attacks all day while the fighters are stuck moving and attacking every turn instead.

Fighters should be good at kicking ass and soaking up damage, while wizards should be vulnerable and desperately trying to protect their fragile equipment (spellbooks, wands, whatever else).

Tiers are the strongest evidence of the system's failure.
It's a homebrewed system to mitigate things it does wrong that cannot otherwise be fixed.
You cannot possibly see that as evidence of success without lying to yourself.

The initial art was horrendous, but the idea of a whole bunch of "themed" realms with absurd, over the top, asian-MMO archtecture and features is cool in my opinion.

>the tier system proves that the system isn't broken
Dumbest thing I've read today.
Why exactly should a fighter be functionally useless compared to a wizard of the same level?

If you're going to say "gib me five examples" then don't go "but don't use these examples though, they don't count because...REASON!" as a pathetic measure at damage control before the damage even comes.

I'm not going to waste my time giving you examples when it's clear that you're going to come up with arbitrary reasons for why they don't count for some stupid reason or another.

PC's aren't random peasants and people should stop trying to treat them as such. It'd actually clear up a lot of misunderstandings.
The system was made so that some options are actually better than others. Tiers show which options fit into which power level, which helps to avoid a lot of issues as far as imbalance is concerned. Ergo, the tier system shows that the system works because each tier has a cleanly defined power level, which shows that the designers knew what they were doing as far as deciding what power level each new option should be.

It's not a bug, it's a feature.
Because the Wizard is designed to do practically everything as a T1 while the Fighter can only afford to do one job (dealing damage) but less capably than most other martials, making them a T5.

It's not rocket science chief, not every option is going to be awesome and it's obvious from the moment you actually read the book.

You're not giving examples of humans that learned to use magic purely through study because there are none. Mortals picking up a book and learning to use magic is a staggeringly modern idea and you have no proof against it. Everything before that required some sort of supernatural heritage, but you hate to admit it because it wrecks your "martials can't be like myths because those are demigods" by showing that casters can't even exist without being demigods.

>The system was made so that some options are actually better than others.
Why the fuck would you design a system like this?This is WHY DnD and DnD derivatives suck.

>It's not rocket science chief, not every option is going to be awesome and it's obvious from the moment you actually read the book.
Except that wasn't the intent as stated in the core phb, it was something that was realized a few books in, and then the devs actively tried to keep classes at what is considered T3-4 (unless it was a 1-9 full caster, then shit went out the window).

You're the one saying there are plenty of stories where mortals gain godlike power from researching arcane tomes, though. Merlin is half-demon, Circe is a minor Goddess or nymph, and Baba Yaga is a supernatural creature of undetermined origin, but certainly not a human. We're just trying to keep you honest, and the fact that you're objecting to it proves you have no actual examples.

this
Also, why are PF players always autistic. I mean literally. The only PF players i know seem to have an extra chromosome, are aspies or obviously autistic.