Casters > martials

>he thinks the guys with the pointy stick should be as powerful as the guy who can make reality his bitch

>his
How dare you assume xir's pronouns

In good settings, wizards can't warp reality.

Any setting with wizards limits their power so they don't literally run the world with an iron fist. That's usually why the pointy metal stick does enough damage to kill the magic man.

Then they aren't really wizards then are they.

It wouldn't make any sense whatsoever if casters weren't beefier than martials.

We just had this thread. You used the same image and practically the same post

Yes they are.

Its magic that has its limitations and rules

Gandalf couldn't cast Meteor Swarm, Wish, Gate, or True Resurrection, but he's still THE archetypal wizard.

What exactly COULD Gandalf do?

I remember he zapped some goblins with lightning bolts in the Hobbit but he doesn't seem to be that powerful.

Why does everyone fear and respect him? Is he hiding his true power level or what?

>He thinks a shitty two-bit stage magician should be as powerful as Hercules

LotR is a high fantasy setting with low magic, you dimwit.

He's feared and respected on account of his capabilities being so much higher than most within the confines of Middle Earth.

>Not that powerful
He killed a fucking Balrog.

The Istari wizards were forbidden from exercising their 'magic' too extraordinarily, albeit in dire and extreme situations.

The five wizards were sent to inspire the free folk, not become a crutch. They were even forbidden from directly challenging Sauron, which is pretty astonishing considering Word of God states Gandalf (book version) could take Sauron 1v1

Using physical force, no less

Gandalf's physique was largely magical in nature, being an angelic figure.

He was stronger than most men in their prime. The 'old man' look being a form representing their charge.

>wake up
>remember anima is a better system for low fantasy western game like demon souls than D&D
Whew the city of D&Drones

GANDALF.
IS.
NOT.
A.
WIZARD.
HE IS AN ANGEL.

Fine then stop referring to him as the archetypal wizard then

You literally cannot say he isn't a wizard when he is already stated as such.

You might as well say elves aren't elves on account of how they function in the after.

>Gandalf from "Gandalfr" (literally Staff-Elf)
>Gandalfr is one of Odin's names
>Magic is one of Odin's domains
>Odin is sometimes depicted as wearing a blue pointed hat with a broad brim

I don't mean to piss in your pocket, but I thought it was worth mentioning. If Tolkein had written Lord of the Rings with access to the internet, he would have been called a hack.

Gandalf is a wizard. How can one be so fucking retarded? Magic is more of a profession, you don't lose said profession by being something other than human. Odin was a fucking god-wizard, user.

Gandalf IS the archetypal wizard. But so is Dumbledore, Elminster and of course Merlin.

>which is pretty astonishing considering Word of God states Gandalf (book version) could take Sauron 1v1
Wasn't that due to the fear of Istari just replacing Sauron as the Middle-earth's main tyrant when he got too confident with their power? Or that they'd fall to his side due to Sauron's high persuasion?

Both

And the fact that Eru wanted the free peoples to triumph on their own.

conan the cimmerian would like to have a word with you, and by "have a word with you" I of course mean "put his boot through your dumb sorcerer face"

Funny that the strongest of sorcerers in the Conan novels could not be bested by steel and brawn.

He literally had to find a macguffin to tackle the strongest sorcerer in the canon, Xaltotun.

>he thinks he can just make more of these shit threads

Conan wouldn't have the slightest chance of defeating a D&D wizard.

getting outsmarted by a martial still counts as getting beaten. the idea that the only thing warriors should be able to do is a.) punch, or b.) punch harder is baggage from ONE edition of D&D from more than a decade ago

>he can
>they still get 300+ replies

But it was... Teh epikalest forteh win xD. So we only play that or his lil EPIC bro 5e!!!

Except he couldn't outsmart Xaltotun. He had to get other witches and sorcerers alongside a magical artifact to beat him.

Then there was Yah Chieng. Conan needed a god's help to beat him. He wasn't even as powerful as Xaltotun to begin with.

>regularly shits on reality-bending tier sorcerers
>beats godlike creatures from demonic dimensions like it's fucking nothing
>casually walks off injuries that'd be sufficient to kill virtually everybody else
>maintains reasonable tax policy during his reign
Absolutely based.

>He still plays reddit and normies
You know how I know you are an IQ 90 burger flipping lefty?

It was her turn to lose after no refunds libtards.

ok, so there have been tons of conan stories over the years and there are exceptions to the rule. It's not true that every single martial can beat every single caster, sometimes even conan needs help. Even so, if you need a palate cleanser after experience bad martial/caster balance in a certain popular roleplaying game, there are tons of examples from Conan to be going on with

>maintains reasonable tax policy during his reign
hell yeah. somewhere out there, a single greasy tear rolls down GRRM's face

I think the big thing people fail to realize is this.

The strongest of casters will -always- be stronger than the strongest of martials.

You need to work around them indirectly to have a chance at besting them. Never in a direct confrontation.

The one user who mentioned Hercules makes me think.
Could there be a way for a martial to become this kind of demi-god without retroactively having Zeus as a father? Or at least gain magic resistance to compete, and use the regular fighter's superhuman feats to threaten wizards.

Are you okay user?

So the only way for martials to compete with casters is to become demigods?

Martials will always be weaker than casters since they're all muscle. The only thing that martials can accomplish are feats of great physical prowess. Casters can do so much more.

in fantasy world some mortal men are born with potential beyond that of the normies. rivaling gods in their power as they gain skill and experience. most of these people become fighters, rangers and rogues. though not all ever realize their full potential some rise up to become mightier than any mortal. even wizards have a respect for them knowing if it were not for their magical talent they would be nothing compared to these gods among men.

Sounds like more wizards than martials to me.

Your image miffs me.

The dude who is mad hints at TSR D&D, then says
>then people of equivalent LEVELS should be ABOUT the same fucking strength.
when older editions gave classes seperate do costs for leveling, so that characters of similar so totals would have similar strength.

By the sword.

Gandalf threw lightbulbs, gave rousing speeches, and had a lighter built into his ring.

>ANGEL
Istari/Maiar

That's the same reason Herakles doesn't count as a martial, right?

>baggage from ONE edition of D&D
This is baggage from literally every edition of D&D except 4e.

the problem is that you assume martials in a FANTASY universe are inherently mundane. we know nothing about the physical limits of mortals that operate in a fantasy universe where magic and gods exist to influence the world.

Not exactly demigods, but remember when monks had insane magic resistance when they got to whatever level ?
I'm kinda just thinking of things like that. Hercules' durability is out of the question, but simply gaining resistance could do the trick.

Wizards are pretty strong in pathfinder

...

This. There is room for a lot of non magic-related awesomeness in fantasy settings. Even if it requires a quest for the martial to become this way, I don't really care.

Excellent picture.

Bahahahaha

Arguing that martials need superpowers to combat casters

Hilarious

Okay so let's say we give martials very high magic resistance accross the board. How does this help martial/caster disparity in any way?

In case you'd forgotten, the martial isn't fighting the caster, they're both on the same team fighting monsters together.

If you want the martial to be more useful you need to give monsters magic resistance so that the caster can't just obliterate them.

The problem is, as I've mentioned many times, martials are limited to feats of physical prowess. Casters can do so much more than that. That's why casters > martials.

What's that picture trying to say exactly?

That martial/caster disparity exists and nothing can be done about it?

it's a list of caster arguements in the form of text and martial rebuttals in the form of pictures.

Today I fucked up a sorcerer that got cocky. A martials greatest tool is his ability to be underestimated.

>A martials greatest tool is the low IQ of sorcerers

Fixed

Well at least wizards need superpowers to rival fighters.

That's kind of their gig to begin with.

Your point?

:^)

kek

maybe use some magic, you filthy fighter. battle-mages are at least respectable.

Giving ennemies (not necessarily monsters) magic resistance was kind of implied, though not clearly I'll admit.
But then if we are talking about what can be done, I'm in favour of magical devices, or simply using several objects with a bit of thought (ropes, oil, old lighter, throwing knives, bolas, smoke screens)

>letting casters get that powerful without severe consequences
I guess maybe they could bend reality once, but only if they want to kill themselves from over-exertion.

Nobody cares about your setting. We're talking about D&D.

So that's why you need to worry about a martial-caster disparity! :^)

Yeah, that's right.

This.

Every single thread there's that one faggot who comes along with

>b-but in my setting wizards are nothing more than frail old men with no magical powers and fighters are conan the destroyer

Nobody gives a shit dude. We're talking about the most popular RPG in the world.

To be fair, in most tabletop rpgs casters reign supreme.

They're just fuckin' SALTY

The Archetype Wizard is King Solomon.

>Bizzare if not absent sense of right and wrong
>Extremely clever and wise
>Summons demons to labour for him
>Knew all forms of magic from enslaving demons
>On God's good side despite having a billion wives and mistresses and the demon summoning
>Richest fucker to ever live
>Cuts babies in half and laughs about it

Solomon

>most popular RPG in the world.
Too bad it's shit, huh?

Solomon is pretty wizard, yeah.

Funny you should mention him, when I immediately regretted not putting him with Gandalf, Dumbledore and Merlin after I posted that comment.

Ah the familiar autistic screech of the D&D hater.

It must really trigger you that millions of people around the world have fun playing D&D.

I mean, they could be having more fun if they played something that wasn't shit.
I'm just looking out for them.

>opinions
The system you're using has very little impact on something as subjective as "fun".

D&D is familiar and accessible while still having a good amount of depth.

Stay mad, hater.

Right so the archetype wizard is

>Usually an older guy
>Somewhat unkempt and raggety looking
>Keeps own council, behavior seems bizzare or inexplicable due to then having more info than you
>Prefer to manipulate things to their favour quietly
>Despite seeming frail and humble are incredibly mighty
>Socially challenge but could pull rows of bitches if they wanted
>Generally chill as long as you don't fuck with them or get in their way
>Usually initiated into the inner mysteries of the universe
>Smoke dank ass weed and fuck magical bitches half the time

You're in a thread where people are arguing about the imbalance between casters and martials and how it may negatively influence the gameplay (a.k.a. making it less enjoyable)
You know that, right?
It's arguable that, for the system being discussed, that its usage does indeed impact something as subjective as "fun."

This is why I play 13th Age, the best single strikers are martials, 10d12 base attack, before adding powers and maneuvers? Yes Please.

Why another thread? Do you enjoy picking on martials?

Not a bad thing. Just curious.

This thread again?

The peak of human strength is someone pulling a bus with their dick.

The peak of human ingenuity allowed us to create the atomic bomb.

Yet people think that STR and INT are equals somehow.

Nobody gives a shit about Sorcerers, so congrats on beating someone who likely dumped INT for their character build.

Oh yeah, 26 morons (at best) screeching about an issue that barely impacts the game for the people who understand OBVIOUSLY proves how it can impact the fun for the minority.

Not him but Veeky Forums is such a shithole nowadays that if you're not interested in generals, D&D, WH40K, or MtG; there isn't really a whole lot of interesting threads to get into.

So better to bump up troll threads and get some sort of discussion going than lurk through the catalog to find nothing of interest.

One thing I liked about 5E was that fighters/rogues got more ability score improvments, so they could be strong and smart while magic users were just smart.

Why would any martial put their points into anything outside of physical stats when the game doesn't give them anything to use it on?

It doesn't matter if you have a 20 in INT and CHA if your class exclusively scales itself off of STR and CON.

>he thinks casters should have access to half the shit they have
>he thinks all magic has to be spells

I seem to remember that he never did any actual magic himself and just used stuff he got from angels? And mostly threw shit at demons with "god" inscribed on it. His summoning is mostly chain reactions from him threatening demons to get their buddies or else.
I mean you are not wrong, but I don't think he any powers himself except phone calls to god.

Because I already capped STR and CON and I like it.

Why not focus on DEX and WIS then since they still serve a purpose for your Fighter? It seems like a better use of your points than wasting them on flavor text.

Didn't we just have this thread?

And we'll continue to have this thread as people get rid of OC without anything to replace it.

>26 morons (at best)
>versus one idiot with a lot of free time
Don't you have anything better to do than keep starting garbage threads and then keeping them up? Seems like an awful waste of human life to me.

Imagine if we all spent so much time and dedication into getting mankind into space. We'd probably be halfwayacross the galaxy by now.

You are like a living embodiment of humankind squandering all its talents. It's sad.

We could all go and start a new quality thread instead of staying here trolling. Imagine that. Just imagine.

All of you, hide this thread and go start something you'd really love to see on Veeky Forums. Don't just complain about shit - change begins with you.