>Demons are made up of warp stuff.
>Demons can possess sentient beings, such as humans.
>This allows them to interact with the material world.
>The Chaos gods are made up of warp stuff.
>They stay in the warp and don't possess anyone (to my knowledge.)
Why is that? Wouldn't that give them a major advantage? Or is their something above I'm wrong on?
The Chaos Gods can't leave the warp.
Why not? What's the worst that could happen?
A Chaos God trying to possess a mortal is sort of like trying to fit a river in a water balloon.
It just pops immediately, there was no hope of it ever working, and it wasn't even a very interesting experiment.
There's only so much warp a physical body can hold. In the older fluff, when the Emperor drove the chaos gods out of Horus, he needed the Golden Throne to stay alive because the physic power required to best the dark gods was too much for a physical shell to handle. The Emperor's undying body was effectively rendered mortal by his own power.
Well the daemons such as bloodleters, plague bearers and so on are more or less a fragment of their respective god, who pretty much embody their respetive emotions and feelings and feed of them the most and therefore becomes more powerful, like a god
A chaos god is more like an idea. Its like the difference between a website and the internet. One is an emergent gestalt of numerous instances of the other. In the same way, chaos gods are more like the combined force of the shifting tides of the warp.
The website/internet analog is also useful for these examples.
>What's the worst that could happen?
Total event collapse.
The only mortal form powerful enough to hold them would be the Emperor. Obviously this is not a viable option, considering that he's literally anathema to them.
Summoning daemons into realspace typically takes more energy the stronger the daemon is. A few nurglings slipping in is easier than a daemon prince.
Trying to have a Chaos god come into realspace and possess something would be a monumentally difficult task due to how vast they are in scope. You'd probably need the person getting possessed to be an insanely strong psyker to even contain the energy, and you'd probably need an extremely complicated ritual spanning over hundreds if not thousands of planets arranged in a specific pattern committing a specific ritual.
And all you'd really accomplish is letting that god stomp all over realspace basically uncontested while the others take over his territory in the immaterial uncontested, so none of them would actually volunteer to do it.
So, if I'm understanding this correctly, the problem is the power of the mortal they are trying to possess. Since one of you mentioned them taking possession of (or at least being in) Hours, we can safely assume it would take a primarch to house one of them. And since the method of creating a primarch is known by few, including one of their mortal enemies, creating a new vessel would be difficult at best.
Thank you for your time.
Pretty much. You'd need a Primarch, but they're as much genetic science as they are warp power, and while the Chaos Gods have plenty of the latter, only the Emperor had the former. And all the remaining Primarchs are either 100% warp stuff already, or loyal.
The being sat on the Skull Throne is not Khorne. It is Khorne's avatar.
The tender of the garden of Plague is not Nurgle, but his avatar.
The Powers of Chaos are not beings, small and fragile, but worlds. Nurgle is his garden - including every fly and fungus, every maggot and mire. And every daemon there-in.
Every Bloodthirster is just a fragment of Khorne's fury. A reflection of his perfect rage and anger.
A Chaos God cannot possess a mortal because no mortal could contain an entire warp realm within their fleshy brain.
>And all the remaining Primarchs are either 100% warp stuff already, or loyal.
Or dead.
Indeed, or dead.
Demons are just manifestations of Chaos Gods. Every Bloodthirster is just an aspect or a part of Khorne.
Hang on a minute, can daemons possess corpses? If not, then why not? If so, then I'm confused once again.
No, and it's due to a lack of connection to the warp. No mind or soul to fill.
Theoretically I suppose they could be summoned into one. But the soul is the link between the materium and the warp, so I doubt they'd be able to get into it on their own even if they wanted to.
But everything does have at least a tiny reflection in the warp unless it's blank, so if it were summoned into a corpse the body wouldn't reject it any more than a computer would.
Ah, that makes sense. Thank you.
Anything else about daemons I should know? I know the basics and what was said in this thread, but outside of that I know very little. I think.
In Flight of the Eisenstein, some recently-dead corpses were possessed by Nurgle when a gellar field ruptured inside the Warp.
But that was a special case and involved direct action, it's unlikely to be possible under normal circumstances. I especially doubt that they'd be able to do it in the physical plane of reality.
If you're making daemons for RPGs, Undivided Daemons are a lot of fun, especially if you want to give them whacky stuff that doesn't neatly fit under one of the big four. Or even as the object of a chaos cult. The Greatest of Undivided Daemons and Daemon Princes carve out their own little Realms of Chaos out in the Formless Wastes (of course, these little realms pale in comparison to even the shadow of the Realms of the Big Four).
Sorry, should clarify: were possessed by Nurgle daemons, small ones. Not Nurgle himself.
Wait, I thought they were just resurrected as Plague marines rather than daemons?
Either way, rules are a bit different in the warp.
No material forms natively. When summoned they make a temporary body out of local materials (often why a sacrifice is involved. Lots of stuff to work with) of course, this just lasts while the warp connection is open.
On top of the whole "it just wouldn't fit" thing, what mortal being could possibly be deemed important enough for a chaos god to possess themselves rather than sending a daemon to do it? Joe Schmoe cleaning the floors of the hive isn't going to be anywhere near interesting enough or a big enough deal to be possessed by a full fledged god.
I think Malice does that from time to time.
>people other than the emperor knows how to create primarchs
WHAT?
I'll admit, I was being generous in saying a few. My mistake there.
Corax knows (Emperor gave him all the data when he asked for it), Alpha Legion/Omegon knows (stole the data from Corax), and Fabius Bile knows (got a corrupted/incomplete form from the Alpha Legion, deliberately on the latter's part, and also has genetic samples of Horus and Ferrus).
Fulgrim keeps using Fabius' knowledge to clone Ferrus and try to turn him to Chaos, but he keeps coming out loyal. Fabius also cloned Horus, but Abaddon killed that thing ASAP, before it could come into anything near its full abilities again (it came out loyal as well I think, but it also didn't have any soul because Emps completely annihilated it).
However, there's also a big difference between cloning a Primarch's physical body, and getting the necessary Warp energy to subsequently infuse them with what is essentially a Greater Daemon-esque soul.
It's worth noting that he's also attempting to clone the Emperor with Sanguinius' blood sample, but has meet with continuous, complete failure.
He was only able to clone Ferrus and Horus successfully, minus the no-soul part of Horus that left him confused and muddled in the head, but still powerful enough to slaughter an entire boarding party of chaos marines with ease before Abaddon managed to kill him. All his other Primarch cloning attempts just spawned hulking or deformed monstrosities, he's nowhere near the Emperor in cloning Primarchs, and even his successful attempts are loyalist by default.
>cloning
Why not making a new Primarch?
>New anything and not a rehash on my WH40K
No.
He might find it easier to mess with the old ones.
He doesn't understand it.
He can replicate it, copy it.
He can't use it to create something new.
Fuck, he can't even copy it right except in two cases, neither of which were exactly perfect anyway, and if he isn't close to mastering the genetic code, he's sure as shit nowhere near mastering the soul-craft process.
It's the same way you or I could photocopy a book, (let's say a 40K BL novel) and having it come out as a copy on ink and paper, but it's a lot harder to take that ink and paper and write a new BL novel set in the 40K setting with the materials available. Far easier to adjust or edit the existing ones, but even then he's still at risk of fucking something up.
>Why not?
They just can't. It's why they invented daemons.
Daemosn can possesses corpses. They can possesses any inanimate object if it doesn't have special anti-daemon properties. .
That was when Typhon trapped the Death Guard fleet in the warp. The Flight of the Eisenstein was a different event.
Let's say Khorne concentrated all of his forces against another god in the Warp.
Would he win?
What would the repercussions be of having no demons in realspace?
From memory, Khorne is the strongest of the four.
So yes, he'd probably win. And in winning, he'd also take so much damage and destruction that one of the surviving two could jump on him and destroy him.
>write a new BL novel set in the 40K setting with the materials available.
I get what you are trying to say, but that was a poor example. Other than that, ok! Thank you, user!
The guys who write WH40K dont know that, so how the fuck are we suposed to know?
We just speculate.
Slaanesh and Malal have done this. Slaanesh needs a specially prepared body, and even then it's only a minor possession.
Malal? Literally fucking waltz's out to Crusade with the sons of malice after a complex autistic ritual, and this is the reason Tzentch wanted him dead ASAP.
Nah, I know that. But Grulgor and his fellows seemed very Plague Marine like, rather than any particular daemon. For example, continuity of mind.
anyone knows any more of the groups that make technology super important like priests of mars? comics, movies, tv series, games, anything goes, kinda more interested in the stories than games at the moment so pls reply if anything comes to mind
sry for unrelated reply just didnt want to make a stupid thread to ask a question
Well the portrayal of demons in BL stuff can vary a lot which kind of makes sense with what demons are supposed to be but I always read it as their corpses were possessed rather than being resurrected as plague marines just because that seems to make more sense especially back then before most of the traitors started worshiping chaos.
Solitude, a comic in Eternal Damnation.
True, I was going a lot on their appearance I admit.