/srg/ - Shadowrun General

>How close are your runners?
Range from professional respect to drinking buddies

>Do they live together?
No, but all but one of them live in the same neighborhood.

>Do they help each other with normal stuff?
yes.

>Or do you only meet during runs?
The outsider is currently like that but may end up moving in with one of the others because their gambling problem is sapping their lifestyle.

My suggestion is to either give out something big and use the no-questions rate given for contacts, or something smaller and let them negotiate a price out of their fixer or fence with a penalty to net hits based on how much below 4 the loyalty is, effectively.

Other than the classic, "How much are your morals worth?"

Once played a game during the Seattle elections, with a lot of the runs connecting to the political game. My character was an orc rights activist trying to set up an independent Undergound/Puyallup. Almost came to blows with another party member (a bleeding heart college kid) when he found out I was actively trying to destroy a candidate who wanted to revitalize the district so his corrupt but inept opponent would win and the orcs would have an easier time asserting de facto self-rule.

How do you guys interpret Shadowrun "karma"?

When I first started playing (1st edition!) I thought it was just D&D "experience" renamed. In other words: It didn't matter how much of a saint or a sinner you were, if you completed the Run successfully and also accomplished additional goals along the way, you got Karma. But eventually I realized "karma" might have been closer to the dictionary definition of a character's current actions having a supernatural impact on them in the future. I bought and ran a few official Shadowrun adventure books back in the day, and I came to realize that they rewarded karma for characters doing "the right thing", in spite of essentially being professional criminals. The recent Shadowrun games (Shadowrun Returns, Dragonfall, and Hong Kong) only reinforced this as it rewarded Karma for selflessly helping people out because it's the altruistic "right thing to do".

This had made me realize that Shadowrun characters, while they're free to behave like completely amoral scumbags, they won't be getting any bonus karma. But if they do "the right thing" in spite of being criminals, they should be rewarded Karma. I think this is meant to be a way to keep player characters in check from completely degenerating into That Guy behavior, or treating a game of Shadowrun as if it's just a Grand Theft Auto murder spree on the table top with dice. And I actually appreciate this method of keeping players in check: By offering a positive reward for not being COMPLETE assholes in spite of being professional criminals, but still leaving them free to do utterly Evil and amoral things if they want to for whatever reason.

With that said, what do you think? How do you interpret Shadowrun Karma? Am I doing it right? Am I doing it wrong? How do you think it was meant to be?

That's explicitly how it's always been. The rule of thumb has been that do-goodery pays less well in nuyen, but you get heaps more karma, which was more important back in the day when your runners were expected to do lots of work for people like Mothers of Metahumans and other causes, instead of jumping right into corporate proxy-war. If you pop open 5e core, the run reward table breaks down the balance between karma and nuyen, depending on what you're doing (so wetwork gives lots of cash but little karma, and rescuing shifters from trees is the opposite).

I can understand the reasoning (people with bad intentions often have loads of cash, normal people simply haven't)
but to me it gives this picture that awakened prefer good runs (because they really need karma but don't have much use for nuyen) but mundane prefer evil runs (because being mundane costs a SHITHEAP of money, but doesn't use karma much)
And that a group might say "well normally we would do a good run, but we need cash so let's do some evil stuff"

Yeah, it's presented a little too cut and dry.

I have it be the more unconventional the run, the more karma. So if the run is to do something weird or if shit hits the fan, then they get more karma. Sometimes they also get more money from those, but usually they don't. If you just want a source of income, go with something safer and cleaner. If you want to learn something about yourself, do the bizarre or dangerous.

>And that a group might say "well normally we would do a good run, but we need cash so let's do some evil stuff"

This is legit roleplaying. Even though the group might be doing it for purely meta reasons, it's not all that uncommon in a dramatic or real-life sense for otherwise moral individuals to have a lapse in conscious and "look the other way" for short term gain, whether out of greed or because they believe they NEED the money for whatever reason - even if it's to buy their child cancer treatments.

>If you want to learn something about yourself, do the bizarre or dangerous.

Give us an example of "the bizarre"

>"steal 100 troll sized dildos, plant them on top of building XYZ, then lube all of them and set the roof on fire"
You'll learn something about yourself, if only that you can sink this low for nuyen. And that a distraction works best if it is unconventional

Not that chummer

Forgot my pic

...yeah sorry, even though doing "the right thing" might be just a little too 'cut and dry', and some might be offended by believing that the game is trying to push some kind of morality onto them, I think I'd prefer that over...

...what you just described. And anything like it.

Do remember that I'm not the chummer that advocated for bizarre runs giving more Karma
Just something that came into my mind
I think I'll make this a run if nothing else

Well, bizarre is probably an overstatement. I more mean keep things mixed up. If a group mainly does heists in pretty much the same way, they'll get diminishing karma rewards from doing heists. If they do something like, say, a stealthy assassination, then they'll get karma more in line with what they were getting when they first started doing heists.

A bunch of gangbangers pulling off a bank robbery would have similar effects.

Doing something really outrageous and once in a lifetime, like raiding the Zurich Orbital or killing a dragon would obviously reward the most possible karma.

One of my players is planning on making a Pixie Technomancer. Should I be concerned?

>Pixie Technomancer
impossible
And this is not because such an abomination needs to be killed (it does)
but because the rules do not allow it
Pixies have a magic stat and you can't have both a MAG and a RES stat at the same time

1) RAW impossible
2) tons of rad flags, no more racial options from "Run Faster" for him.

IIRC, everything but shifters can go down to zero MAG. So if through heinous snowflakery they took some cyberware, then Emerged, I think it's OK RAW.

I haven't seen anything about it in 5e but in 4e you could only get Deltaware, which means you can't start with a MAG

This smells like massive bait.

No cyberware restrictions in 5e, so that's not an issue. I don't recall any specific rules in any edition saying that only metahumans/critters could get a Resonance score. And Emergence happens later in life, not at birth.

It's some advanced fuckery in terms of abusing what's intended, but I don't think it's technically against the rules.

While most sources in 5th are very ambigous on the topic of Magic and Resonance, I'm sure everyone can agree that the message is clear, one or the other.

But 4th edition would literally screw this idea.

"Magic and Resonance are mutually exclusive attributes. A character who possesses a quality that grants a Magic of 1 or higher cannot have a Resonance attribute."

SR4E 20th - p. 68

I am aware that you can't have both (it's spelled out in 5e too); I'm saying that you can drop the pixie's inherent Magic of 1 to 0 through Essence loss, and then Emerge. They never have both Magic and Resonance concurrently, just sequentially.

Even off of that rule in 4e, it doesn't say that a character who has had a Magic score can never have Resonance, or vice versa.

>Even off of that rule in 4e, it doesn't say that a character who has had a Magic score can never have Resonance, or vice versa.
That depends on whether you interpret them being pixies as a quality
because as that quote said you can't have RES> 0 if you have a quality that gives you a MAG score (so a mage can't have a RES rating even if he burns out)
But again, this is a 4e rule and if 5e permits Pixie TMs then that is on par with their other decisions

That seems to be technically legal, but i'd kick every Player from the table who tried it.
Not specifically for this cheese, but rather for the mindset he shows.
I'd also unironically would recommend them to work in law or economics.

>Even off of that rule in 4e, it doesn't say that a character who has had a Magic score can never have Resonance, or vice versa.

But it does.

"A character who possesses a QUALITY that grants a Magic of 1 or higher cannot have a Resonance attribute."

Reducing that attribute through essence loss does not remove that quality. You still have the quality that lets you raise your magic through Karma.

It just doesn't work.

Mean to quote that post for this post.

a, good

Everything can go down to 0/X Magic, but what you need to do is drop your maximum Magic to 0, otherwise you're still not eligible for Resonance. And doing that will absolutely fuck your maximum Resonance, assuming the GM doesn't just say "Nah, bro. Try again." Either way they're helping you, and ditching your Mag/Res jumping concept at the same time.

I was going off of the rule in 5e where you lose the quality for Magic/Resonance if it reaches zero. Reading the 4e rules, I can't seem to find the same clause. my bad

So how the hell are ultra-glide filled paint grenades supposed to work?

I understand coating a surface, but does the agility test apply to things people are already holding if they're in the blast zone?

Does the ultra glide slip in between your hand and the weapon you're holding?

i know lube does. So I assume so.

Listen to this man. He has splattered himself with lube in the name of science. Respect that.

Being a Pixie gives you a MAG score. Even if you drop that score to 0. A MAG score of 0 is still a MAG score. No Resonance for you.

...

Is he here for the pixies or the lube?

Wrong for 5e, though a common misconception.
You don't burn out if Mag reaches Zero, you burn out if MAX Mag reaches Zero.
Big difference that in practice means that a character with exceptional Attribute MAG could get stuffed with 5,99 Points of Ware EVEN IF HE NEVER BOUGHT ACTUAL MAG HIGHER THAN 1 and still not be considered "burned-out".

Kill the pixies, steal the lube

Fuck the pixies, use the lube.

Right for 5e, at least for Resonance.

>For every point (or fraction thereof) of Essence lost, both your current Resonance Attribute and your maximum Resonance Rating are reduced by one. If your Resonance ever reaches zero, you lose the Technomancer quality and all Resonance abilities.
Core 250

The book uses 'Resonance' elsewhere to refer only to your score, not to your maximum possible rating. Can't find the citation for the Magician quality offhand.

That's some sloppy rule writing. They mention two instances of Resonance (Current and max), yet don't specify on which instance reaching zero that you lose the Technomancer quality.

>That's some sloppy rule writing.
What did you expect, chummer?
Good editing?
From CGL?

Well not really, I've come to expect this from fifth.

Not crushing and refining the pixies down into premium fey lube.
It takes a bit of work to keep them from dissolving back into the astral but the product is worth it. The Aztechnology execs swear by it.

For resonance, yes, for Magic, no.

Remember this because i didn't want to believe it and somebody showed me.
Raged quite hard, made my hate for awakened bollocks only stronger.

>implying 4e was better run

It was mediocre before Actual Shadowrun Villainy, and way down afterwards- 5e managed to level out and started crawling back up in the past few books. 4e just lucked out that their core rules were done beforehand.

>4e just lucked out that their core rules were done beforehand.
Why is it that the Germans are so much better at SR design?

Asking for clarification: If a Runner has a datajack, cybereyes and cyberears with anetnnae, does he still need to be directly connected to his commlink with a cable to access the matrix? Or can the Datajack wirelessly connect itself to the runner's commlink?

You know the Germans make good stuff.

With that set up the runner can see AR objects and hear AR sounds pretty much always. The Datajack and ears/eyes both need to go down for that to go away.

The runner can also use the DNI to give commands to a comm or deck and use it without touch. Except for things that might actually need touch to use, like say a stun dongle.

>4e just lucked out that their core rules were done beforehand.

Well yes, that actually speaks for 4e being better in that regard. Doesn't speak for CGL having done a better job though.

So if a comm's sitting on a nearby surface, turned on but unconnected, the runner should be able to perform casual matrix/AR surfing like watching future-youtube videos and instant-messaging and the such?

More than just casual stuff. Editing is also on the table, if the thing's got a mod that gives a Sleaze or Attack rating then hacking's on there too.

Or sending out radio, or making an actual phone call, or project a trid, or play a music file. And more as based on the stuff the commlink has according to page 438 that almost never get used.

Brilliant, cheers user!

I want a pixie to fist Eiger's ass while she eats out Hestaby, who is fellating Plan 9's furry headcase dick!

I loved Shadowrun Returns, Dragonfall, and Hong Kong.

Has Harebrained Schemes or anybody mentioned any more Shadowrun games being done in the future?

No, they're done for now. Maybe in the farther future they'll make another, but it'll be a different engine entirely at the very least. They may never do another.

If they are, it's pretty certainly going to happen after the Battletech game is done.

They've said they aren't doing any for the forseeable future. They want to do mech stuff now, eventually swing back to SR with a new engine years down the line.

>I want a pixie to fist Eiger's ass
So you don't want her to notice?

I'm pretty sure even Sasha Grey would notice if someone jammed an unexpected pencil up her back door

Sasha Grey wouldn't clench and shatter bone though.

I recently learned that Sasha Grey did a reading of Neuromancer as an art project. I had no idea who she was before then. The internet taught me, though.

>no shadowrun game that takes place in Amazonia or Aztlan

I'll never get to play a Jaguar.

So, we all know that the Adrenaline Pump is the worst piece of 'ware in the game - not only will it deal up to 18(!) stun damage to you once its effects are up, but it can trigger by accident.

So, is there any remotely viable build that uses an R2 Adrenaline Pump?

Pic related because you gotta go fast

Probably some kind of troll, especially if the GM more sensibly interprets it to mean that the pump wears off before the roll instead of only using your bare stats.

Lets remember that Eiger is also like 2 and a half pixies taller than her.

Still, what kind of ware/qualities would you need to get some use out of the pump, but not not crash out?

>R2

Trogger, the real trick is to use a Rating 1 Pump in conjunction with Muscle Toners/Enhancements.

The bonuses on Attributes are cute, but the killer is the pseudo-paineditor available at chargen.

The stun damage will stay manageable and the Duration is usually enough to put you through that single ugly fight in which you are really needing it and can't affort to suffer negative effects from damage modifiers.
Sure, as soon as you can get a pain-editor, Switch it out for that, but again

>chargen legal

Troll, Exceptional Body, Platelet factories, and good edge. If you get un/lucky and roll more than two on your d6 then you might consider spending edge on the resistance roll.

It's not immediate, but also consider Symbiotes for extra healing.

Now if the GM allows other boosts to qualify (but not the boost of the pump), then consider a Pain Editor and Suprathyroid gland.

If it's also considered a damage resistance test, then bone density too.

>getting a pain Editor to compensate the damage from Adrenaline Pump
>getting a Suprathyroid Gland to compensate

>bone density for shock-induced damage resistances

dude...

The main problem with the Pump, to me, isn't the damage but how swingy the thing in overall.

The duration and the damage are both determined by a d6 roll and because of the die pool there's really no good way to not crash after a fight if you roll a 6 and have a rating 2 or more.

Especially if the GM goes literal and neither the body bonus from the gland nor the will bonus from the editor apply.

Now, rolling over 20 dice can help if you didn't take a lot of damage in the fight, but ironically the only way to actually not crash is the Pain editor.

see
If you are taking the pump at anything above level 1 you are doing it wrong
If you are taking the pump for the Attribute bonuses, you are also doing it wrong

The person asked for rating 2 though, and that's what I tried to think of real quick.

It's like asking for direct hacking Technomancer build before 30 karma. A bad idea, but if you ask for how, I'd give answers for that, not petnomancing.

There are no viable chargen-legal builds for R2 though.
And by "viable" i mean something that hasn't a high Chance of completely knocking you out or maybe even killing you after every combat.
Its not even "bad" or "not competetive", its basically a death sentence and would go well with "borrowed time".

I think that on average a Troll with Exceptional Body 11, Will 5, and Edge 6 has a chance of not going out on a high roll for R2. Probably still going to want to hope for some exploding 6s on that roll if you got 'lucky' and it's going to last for twelve turns.

I'm not even sure what you're attacking with, though.

Every shadowrun chase youtu.be/4z1sBt9_zII

>I'm not even sure what you're attacking with, though.

The idea of trying very hard to build something that just doesn't work instead of doing the proper thing and telling the guy in question that he can have something similar, but not exactly what he wanted.

If somebody is showing you a hammer and a nail and asking you if he can open a door with that, you don't show him where to hammer the nail into the lock and break it in the process. You tell him its a bad idea that he shouldn't pursue further.

link to the reading please.

I too am interested in this. For purely academic reasons.

Sorry guys, I couldn't actually find a recording of the full 6 hour reading tmpspace.com/post/72389179976/case-2009-performance-new-museum-of

I'm not quite sure why I did this beyond the perversity of saying that now I kinda worked at the idea and made what you said more applicable.

But I did. This is not a good character, and it's not complete because that would be far more effort than I wanted to actually put forth for something I'm doing just to make somebody else more right.

Posssibly. I'm tired and might just be misreading some wit.

I did figure out what to attack with. Some kind of AR. I deliberately went with an R choice for possible licensing purposes because I went low effort and made a troll in normal priority. (Read, there ain't no hiding it.)

How acceptable is it to have big players in your backstory?
Like, say, being the daughter of a CEO who got betrayed by his board of directors, and now having the goal of getting revenge on all of them?

Named characters is generally where I draw the line, anything besides that is fine within reason, but take it up with your GM.

>If somebody is showing you a hammer and a nail and asking you if he can open a door with that, you don't show him where to hammer the nail into the lock and break it in the process.
What kind of /srg/ have you been visiting? After explaining why it's a bad idea, 100% that's how it should be done.

>CHA, LOG 1, INI 9 + D6

Plz no

Franky, I'm not sure you need (or benefit) from the datajack to do that.

I'm new to Shadowrun and am making my first character in 5e. I'm looking for advice on making a summoner, what types of spirits are good?

All of them. The bigger, the better.