I know it's a tired subject, but

Honestly, I'd say he's better as a guardsman.

Fits better with the enhanced yet still-human super-human thing that Guts has.

I came to say exactly this

It's more uncertain where Skull Knight falls.

Skull Knight is all about plot exposition and being immortal due to some taboo magic that stripped away most of his humanity. So probably TS, ya?

I dunno, He could makes me think of the Legion of the Damned.

guardsman fags are the most obnoxiously deluded people. I swear, they even put flat earther's to shame.

enhanced super-human but still human is literally what space marines are. Space marines are still fucking human. Some space marines even have children in the canon lore.

And if you say they arent because the extra organs and shit then there is literally no point in anything outside of 40k fitting into a space marine chapter. Like even fucking Doomguy would be a guardsman, which is fucking terrible logic

Guardsman fanboys need to go back to their HFY cancer containment threads

Guts powerlevel is equivalent to that of any fucking space marine.

inb4 "im not even a guardsman player, I play tau"

This is most likely where he'd fit in. What defines Guts most is his reckless death defying fighting style, his loyalty and his general misfortune. In that order. Life keeps shitting on him and he keeps fighting, most of the time for the sake of others with practically no regard for his own well-being. That's Guts in a nutshell.

Keep in mind that for most of the story, before he got that accursed fetish from the mansion of the spirit tree, Guts was not remotely enhanced besides being accustomed to using a much bigger sword than normal. And even the Berserker's armor doesn't bestow additional power per se, it merely allows Guts to push his body beyond safe limits. So even current Guts is about as superhuman as a person hopped up on so much adrenaline that they were able to do something that would normally be physically impossible for them.

The Primarchs are specifically enhanced to be the next level in human evolution. Guts is definitely not described as such. So your power level description is wrong.

Here's a few pages from the Berserker armor's introduction.

Spoilers from Berserk, I guess?

Oh, and it stabs spikes into him to hold fractured bones together. All together that means overuse of this item will almost certainly kill the wearer. Guts is abnormally durable, always has been, but it's never been described as any more than him being a really, really tough son of a bitch. As far as the narrative is concerned, in universe he isn't inherently super powered. That aspect of him is kind of important to the plot at times.

2/3

Champion of Malal

Who's Malal? Griffith? Skull Knight?

3/3

So yeah. It's like the fantasy equivalent of being hopped up on PCP, amphetamines and blind rage. Or something like that. The bone splints are nice but also highly damaging. Impressive as Guts is, he's all the more impressive because he doesn't have super powers (as far as the book is concerned, anyway)

Guts' greatest superpower would be somehow not completely falling to Chaos even though he really, really should have by now. It's a constant struggle though, made manifest in his darkest emotions in the form of a "mad dog," as Casca once put it.

How has no one suggested Iron Hands yet? Works even better with Griffith as part of the Emperor's Children.

Griffith isn't just vain, he's also stupidly ambitious. I'd say he's a lot more ambitious than vain, really. If I were to compare Griffith to anyone in 40K, it'd be a shittier Tzeentch, with all his plots and plans and power grabs.

>tfw your buddy turns into a birdman and starts raping your girl

What the fuck, man. I thought we were cool.

Well Skull knight does seek to the destroy the gods and is kind of between two worlds (Which Malice can do in cannon, he can posses someone and come into the material realm)
Also I think Malice treats his servants as pals and not minions, so it actually fits

Griffith is a neat character in that regard. He's fun to psychoanalyze.

Griffith is very possessive and egocentric. The whole reason he fell is because he couldn't handle the loss of his favorite soldier. And when he felt powerless what did he do? Ran off to conquer the princess. What did he do after becoming a cripple and almost giving up on his dream? Conquered Casca and made Guts watch.

He had to take back his Alpha male position in a big way after what happened, and to him sex was all about power and control. Only sex he ever had in the book was about either ceding power for gain or proving he had power when he felt weak (Gennon, Charlotte, Casca). He tried to play Gennon off as all according to plan but it was clear it got under his skin. Quite literally.

They say the old Griffith died during the eclipse and Femto is an emotionless shell that only echoes Griffith's goals without passion, but there definitely seems to be a flicker of the old him left. The same goes for many apostles such as the Count and Rosine. That's why I hesitate to place him among the EC or anyone that would swear to Slaanesh because Griffith doesn't seem to covet pleasure so much as control.

> White hair, slender build, foppish look
> Charismatic
> Great passion for arts
> Obsessive
> Ambitious
> Desires perfection in all things

I think we're more in an argument of pre-Heresy vs post-Heresy. Personally think he has an uncanny resemblance to pre-Heresy Fulgrim.

Expanding on this, though my knowledge of Berserk is meager I think Guts fits Heresy-era Iron Hands to a tee:

> Focused on brute power over any kind of finesse
> Insane feats of endurance/fortitude
> Incredible tenacity and determination
> Near suicidal tactics (after losing their Primarch)
> Obsessive desire to take down Fulgrim/Griffith
On the superficial side of things:
> Lost a hand, replaced it with mechanical prosthesis
> Dresses all in black

It's only surface level resemblance. Their motivations and goals seem to me very different. Fulgrim was a seeker or ever greater beauty and aesthetic quality. Griffith embodied beauty and perfection in appearance and action but what he truly sought was political influence and absolute authority. His looks and charisma were a means to achieve that goal; they never seemed to have much value to him beyond keeping everyone he met enthralled.

If Fulgrim were truly like Griffith, there wouldn't have been a single day after the Emperor arrived that Fulgrim didn't think of how to supplant Big E's authority and mold the Imperium in his personal image. Fulgrim had ambition for sure, but there was a time when he was willing to bend knee and respect the authority of another. That pretty much flies in the face of everything Griffith stands for. Griffith only works with people so he can climb over them later. That's what defines him most.

>his favorite soldier.

Griffith was gay for Guts. You're favorite soldier doesn't make you forget your dream.

>Griffith was gay for Guts.

In a way I think he was. He definitely liked Guts the most. But I don't think liking as a person and as a soldier are mutually exclusive. Griffith first became interested in Guts because of how recklessly Guts fought. Putting his life on the line and coming through again and again, by the smallest of margins. Triumph and death waltzing on a razor's edge. It was fascinating to Griffith.

Griffith wasn't very romantic unless he was talking about his ambitions. Guts was the most important person to him, but he never really wanted to date him or marry him so much as he just really liked having him around because he thought Guts was cool, and came to rely on him in all his schemes. It grew into something like love, but without the traditional romance or sex appeal. Just pure neediness.

So yeah, sorta gay? But A LOT of sorta gay.

Bonus points, Guts thought he might be a fag when they first met.

The line between soldier and fag boy: surprisingly thin.

Well that does sound about right.

Griffith is Chaos Undivided. He's even singled out as the king of the apostles.

>Perfectionist, admires beauty and talent
>ambitious, cunning and deceitful
>uses violence to achieve his ends, filled with cold hatred for much of the world
>Fell into despair, sought ascendancy to escape from his agony

Undivided.

Legion of the damned, easily

What your describing is the platonic ideal of love and admiration that used to be a conceptual thing in the classical era, before Greek came to = Gay and therefore Classical Man Love = Gay.

Guts was Pompey to Griffiths Caesar, who wept when his enemy was killed by Egyptians and had those seeking to curry his favor by presenting Pompeys head executed

Or perhaps more accurately, Agrippa to Griffiths Augustus, the trusted general and friend who was vital to all his plans, and did all the leg work, and was a huge loss when he finally passed away.

Yeah, I can see that. I concur with all your points, nothing to add.

>evil demon dog wagging his lil tail

Guts' darkest thoughts manifest as Snoopy because his dad didn't love him. Absent fathers and an association with canines might be all he and Russ have him common.

I just think it;'s hilarious the embodiment of all his hatred, malice, and rage has a little tail that wags uncontrollably

Why does Slan look different here?

Guts is blatantly superhuman, even pre armor/without the armor. His strength and durability are already WAAAY of the charts. but he also has displays of speed, agility and coordination WAAAY beyond any human, let alone a 6 ft 5 mountain of muscles carrying 200+ kilos of steel on him at all times.

Your problem is attempting to apply realistic logic to an unrealistic setting. According to the setting itself, Guts is an above average but still entirely plausible human warrior. It repeatedly refers to him as such. So I'll take the word of the setting and author over your attempted logical interpretation of the illogical.

What next? We gonna discuss how the Dragonslayer's length randomly alters? How about the clear fact that Popeye must be a mutant or an alien? Obviously he can't be human, just look at him! And then we can move on to the implications of Elmer Fudd hunting a reasoning, talking individual for sport, and from there, who knows! Point being you judge a setting by the standards put forward by the setting not your own arbitrary metric.

>Your problem is attempting to apply realistic logic to an unrealistic setting.
Not really. Berserk humans are ENTIRELY realistic except for literally one or two outliers.
>According to the setting itself, Guts is an above average but still entirely plausible human warrior.
Absurd. He was more physically powerful then much larger men as a kid and it's repeatedly stated by EVERYONE that it shouldn't even be possible for him to lift his sword, let alone wield it with the speed and proficiency he does. And that was BEFORE Dragonslayer.
>So I'll take the word of the setting and author over your attempted logical interpretation of the illogical.
What the fuck are you talking about. EVERYONE Guts came across from day one referred to him as a monster. It's made blatantly obvious that humans are, for the overwhelming majority at least, completely realistic, and that Guts is the biggest outlier in the setting.
>What next? We gonna discuss how the Dragonslayer's length randomly alters? How about the clear fact that Popeye must be a mutant or an alien? Obviously he can't be human, just look at him! And then we can move on to the implications of Elmer Fudd hunting a reasoning, talking individual for sport, and from there, who knows!
This is some weapons-grade autism.
>Point being you judge a setting by the standards put forward by the setting not your own arbitrary metric.
Ok. The setting makes it ABUNDANTLY clear that humans are the same as in the real world. There are several outliers, and even those completely pale in comparison to Guts. Either you have Serpico, who is inhumanly fast but completely human in his strength, or you have several character who display low levels of superhuman strengths but still fall short of Guts and can't even touch him in speed and agility. I'm sorry if it ruins your allegory of whatever, but Guts has been superhuman literally since his first appearance, and everyone he came across has made this ABUNDANTLY clear.

Berserk is not realistic and the autistic one here is you for trying to twist it into something it isn't for the sake of an internet argument.

They also referred to Basuzo as a monster, he must not be human too. That means Griffith was also clearly superhuman or magic or whatever. And Boscogne. And Adon. And Silat. And the rest of the Bakiraka. And Serpico and Azan and pretty much everyone who isn't a mook has done unrealistic shit to some degree. I don't want to have to start posting page after page after page just to have you cover your ears and hum, that would be a lot of effort to accomplish nothing, but I do like discussing Berserk so I might.

No user, the story makes a clear distinction between someone who is monstroulsy strong or incredibly skilled and someone who is an actual monster. Guts vs. Wyald or Guts vs. Zodd are good examples of this during the Golden Age, and the part where he's most often referred to as a monster (Lost Children) the antagonist makes a huge deal out of the fact that he's doing all this while still a human. And that Slan page someone posted earlier, and the list goes on.

I don't give a shit what YOU think is absurd. Is it within reason for a man to be slammed through thick stone pillars and survive? No. Does that mean Guts is Wolverine? Not according to the setting. If the book says thats within human limits then in terms of that setting, it is. You're saying fuck all that and calling super powers because you feel like it.

Iron Hands
>betrayed by bishonen, has bionic arm, dick in early chapters

>Some space marines even have children in the canon lore.
Lol wat. Did you meant Lucian and Uriel Ventris, because HH7 states that they are incapable of procreation.

He's not a retard, so no.

I think you may be just of sperg that this isint bait.

Except, as i pointed out, Guts is the ONLY character with maxed out stats. Basuzo was a monster yet Guts beat him as a fucking kid. People are capable of incredible things under adrenaline, you hear stories like a guy ripping parachute cables that can endure tons of force to save his friend and dislocate both his thumbs in the process all the time. Berserk plays with this, and as i've said, some characters do have superhuman feats in some areas, but literally no one barring Guts is superhuman in every single fucking area. Strength? Guts is easily on pair with any human in the setting, and he still hasn't even reached his physical prime. Durability? I'm half convinced he could survive a nuclear explosion at this point. Speed? Guts can keep up with fucking Silat, whose ENTIRE gimmick is speed. Agility/coordination? Guts, in full armor and gear, is able to dash directly in front of two guards in an open hallway so fast they don't see or hear the giant fucking man with an even bigger sword. I never said Guts had super powers, but he is breaking even the loose limits imposed on humans.
>Guts vs. Zodd
He stalemated human form Zodd later. No other human in the setting can hope to achieve this. And he still isn't in his physical prime.
>Is it within reason for a man to be slammed through thick stone pillars and survive? No. Does that mean Guts is Wolverine? Not according to the setting.
You have a handful of other humans who could survive that, and all of them have brute strength and durability as their gimmicks. While Guts is walking around like Captain America on crack. And the other humans that can come close to Guts? Silat and the Tapasa? They gained their abilities from meme mystical martial arts taken to the extreme. Guts? He just fought a lot with a giant sword and grew up. His physical potential is off the charts compared to absolutely anyone in the setting.

For the purpose of telling a story, the author made Guts a man that could stand against monsters. But he specifically did not give him actual super powers. His strength, skill and resilience are incredible, but not outside the realm of reason for the setting. The story bends over backwards a lot of the time to remind you that though Guts seems monstrous to normal people and even actual for real monsters, he is only human.

As you said the origin of Guts' supposed super powers is quite mundane. Everything about him is molded by his environment. The big sword is because he's trained with a sword twice his size since he was like 8. As he grew older, he kept the 'Sword-to-Guts' ratio roughly the same. The durability is an indomitable will and a battle hardened body, accustomed to punishment. But even then he needs Puck. These are things that another person might reasonably achieve if they were put through what Guts was and somehow survived through luck and talent. As often as Guts is called monstrous, even more often people say he shouldn't be alive. Guts constantly survives on the very edge of death so he HAS to be that strong, the plot demands it. 999,999/1,000,000 people would be dead going through half the shit he has, but he keeps rising to the challenge. That's what makes him special, and that's part of why he's the main character.

I think the real issue here is we're conflating impressive with supernatural. Guts is very impressive in regards to the setting, but he has human limits. That's why he needs Puck around. That's why the Apostles are each mortified when he actually manages to defeat them, which is supposed to be impossible. It all comes back to the idea that he has no right to pull off the insane shit he does in spite of having human limits. Even the Berserker armor directly plays off of that idea: Surpassing the normal subconscious limitations of the body at the cost of health and sanity.

...

...

His ''human limits'' are only in the sense that he doesn't have any additional abilities humans don't. He's still physically stronger, faster and more durable then actual monsters. The armor removes his limits, but thanks to his own absurd physical potential it turns him into almost a demigod, as opposed to turning a normal man into something like base Guts. I do understand your argument now, we were talking about different things. Guts is human in the sense that he doesn't have any special powers. But he is absolutely beyond any human when it comes to his physical abilities. A shame we had a misunderstanding. I love Berserk and Guts to death, he's the one that got me on the HFY train that ultimately led to 40k. I do buy into the whole idea that he's just a tough human that fights through any type of adversity with grit and willpower, but he's obviously far beyond humans when it comes to his strength. He could probably wipe an entire fully equipped army without even thinking of using the Berserker Armor at this point.

If anyone could pull off those feats and still call themselves human, it might be Guts. He gets pushed further than anyone and as a result he's tougher than anyone. I think we essentially agree on that. My one issue is the idea that it's the other way around (He's super powered by default so he does what others can't as a matter of course), 'cause like you said earlier it ruins muh allegory.

Gotta have muh allegory.

>He could probably wipe an entire fully equipped army without even thinking of using the Berserker Armor at this point.
That reminded me of this page.

This. Iron Hands fits Guts to a T, especially if you consider how the modern Iron Hands act like. sounds very Iron Hands as well as
>Determined to accomplish his goal, even if it mutilates his body
>Unwilling to give up his humanity altogether, teetering on the edge between humanity and machine/armor thing
Also his Iron gun hand.

Semi-related, but anyone know where I can find a fuckhueg sword bit like Dragonslayer? I like it's blunt design and it might be cool to throw that on my Chapter Master.

>He gets pushed further than anyone and as a result he's tougher than anyone. I think we essentially agree on that
Oh, absolutely. Guts is the reason i got a HUGE willpower boner which is one of the things that led me to another favorite of mine (pic related).
>He's super powered by default so he does what others can't as a matter of course
Nah, i'd never say that. But his super physicality allows him to not get turned into paste instantly so his willpower can be a factor at all. Guts is still very much the underdog in most of his fights.

I personally theorize that assuming compatibility, It's this absurdly tough nature that would get Guts picked up by the nearest SM Chapter. Not only has he been trained as a soldier all his life, but I can only imagine his genetics are spectacular, given his developed physiology.

Renegade Exorcists Chapter Champion wielding 2H sword and wrist storm bolter

Kingdom Death: Monster

Death Watch.

The survivor of dozens of missions where the rest of the squad died heroically. He carries pieces of all of the fallen war gear as remembrance.

Looks like a few recasters still sell the model it's attached to, so that might work. Thanks fampai.

I think it's also available as a separate bit in weapon sprue, but yeah, unless you can talk somebody into parting with it, recasters are your best option.

I love that pic.
I'd want to see more but that artist..... I'm worried where things would go.

You don't need to look further, it's just a single page concept art / tribute, there's nothing more.
Though believing the author can't have nice things is misconception, go read Single Nabe Double Nabe and apologize.

thats true that one is sweet.

It almost stings more knowing he can do stories like that and then... Emergence

...

Fragile and Tough is also adorable if you can handle some amputee.

This.
>Shows up out of nowhere when things are bleak
>Wrecks shit
>Vanishes almost as suddenly as he appeared

>We gonna discuss how the Dragonslayer's length randomly alters?
Uh, what?

Dragonslayer's actual proportions tend to differ wildly from scene to scene.

It does vary at times, but it isn't acknowledged in the plot. It's just the way it's drawn sometimes makes it appear shorter or longer with no rhyme or reason besides it needed to look that way for that particular panel to flow correctly.

Necron Lord