Spelljammer vs Planescape

Because magical spaceships is stupid shit.

Don't try to shoehorn everything into Dungeons and Dragons.

Best thing about spelljammer

Endless exploration. Planescape promises this,but it does not deliver. IMO the planes feel incredibly empty and dull. The crystal spheres of spelljammer have 10x more life than the outer planes, even though the outer planes are supposed to be infinitely larger.

Worst thing about spelljammer:

The tone is all over the place, and the setting is unfinished.

Best things about Planescape

Sigil and the Factions. There is an element of philosophy in the setting and it is great.

Worst thing about Planescape:

Once you leave Sigil the setting feels dead to me. It's supposed to be about planar travel, but its really about how a bunch of people from different places interact and think when locked in a small city together.

Planescape is not successful because of Torment. That's ridiculous.

The videogame did however show that Planescape is best played with Sigil as a central hub and using its portals to have adventures in various different planes.

I posted in the other spelljammer thread, but I am planning to run a game that fuses space and planar travel.

Basically I am using the 3e cosmology, where the material plane is infinitely large and contains billions of planets and solar systems, but there are also lots of equally big alternate material planes.

These alternate material planes are connected through the plane of shadow, in the same way that the astral plane connects the material plane to the outer planes.

This is in contrast to the 2e cosmology where there is just one material plane, which holds crystal spheres that connect solar system sized regions of space.

As another user pointed out, this can also be accomplished just by having crystal spheres that are the size of universes instead of solar systems.

Anyway, spelljammers can sail through the phlogistin, which is I treat as a coterminous plane that allows fast travel, to reach other stars in the same material plane.

If they want to reach an alternate material plane, they must sail through the plane of shadow. This is dangerous and rarely done. The ships usually travel through Grell built portals and port cities in the plane of deep shadow (since the Grell are familiar with navigating according to lords of madness).

>This is in contrast to the 2e cosmology where there is just one material plane, which holds crystal spheres that connect solar system sized regions of space.
>As another user pointed out, this can also be accomplished just by having crystal spheres that are the size of universes instead of solar systems.

Canonically our entire universe is contained inside a single crystal sphere in AD&D. Some spheres are only big enough to hold a single planet, others (like ours) are big enough to hold an entire universe.

I didn't know that! Do you know where that is from?

Planescape was 2deep4u pretentiousness that aped WoD hard. Perfect for people who want to be edgy but are too lazy to learn systems other than AD&D.

Spelljammer is space fantasy, a very niche idea in the grand scheme of RPGs.

It's not accurate. Earth in 2e does exist, but the little it's discussed just states the travel time between planets and the Sun in our own solar system. The clear implication is that everything outside the solar system is just a magical painting on the inside of our crystal sphere.

It's mentioned in the very first Spelljammer sourcebook (Adventures in Space). But it's just a list of travel times. The setting of Earth in 2e AD&D is in the green books.

I think you're right, it's not "our universe" specifically, it's just the part about "some crystal spheres are large enough to contain a universe the size of our own real-world universe".

Planescape was also the setting where TSR ran with the 'too cool for school' mindset that a lot of RPGs written at the time also had.
That's why you had ridiculous amounts of slang (that was more distracting then anything), fluff written in-character (by a procession of characters who all sounded exactly the same), and attempts to talk about 'deep' philosophy that are basically blowing smoke up your ass. (To say nothing of the shitty published campaigns.)
It was a great idea, with very mixed execution. It's remembered fondly because DiTerlizzi was amazing, and because Nothing Can Change The Nature Of Veeky Forums.
(No, I'm not saying it was 'successful' because of Torment; I'm saying it's 'remembered' because of Torment.)

Blood Wars ccg was awesome and unique - that's what got me. Art, mechanics, fluff - all cool.

I think a good way to merge the settings would be to have spelljammers be able to sail to the outer planes, like in 4e, and to other worlds in the material plane, like in 2e/3e/5e.

The sailing shouldn't be as convenient as the planescape spell. Perhaps the spelljammers will sail along the river styx and oceanus through the other planes, or over the surface of the world tree.

The DM can then add areas where these rivers/trees intersect with the material plane, allowing a spelljammer to fly along them into the outer planes.

There was a point, pre-Spelljammer I think, where the cosmology had the various Prime Material planes connected, not by crystal spheres, but by the Ethereal Plane, which also leads to the Inner Planes.
I kinda like the idea of spelljammer-styles ships sailing between realities, but also to the various elemental realms. Gives off some nice prog rock album cover vibes. Especially if you compare journeying up the 'Astral Plane' as something that takes meditation and will and such.
I mean, from a 'Prime' perspective. The fact that 'Planars' have the ability to sense portals, and therefore cheat the system, is one of those bits of how Planescape works that I'd completely forgotten about until very recently.

>space fantasy
>niche idea in the grand scheme of RPGs
There are a lot of popular Star Wars RPGs though

I would argue that there's a couple of reasons why.

Firstly is that Spelljammer suffers from its inherent motif compared to Planescape. Traveling the multiverse "feels" like a high fantasy concept. Sailing ships between different worlds feels more like science fiction. For people who came in expecting a fantasy game, a setting that "feels" more like a space opera sci-fi setting isn't what they want. It's like pizz with ice-cream on it - it can be delicious if you give it a try, but most people will look at it and go "seriously, what the fuck!?"

Secondly, Spelljammer is notorious as the "goofy" setting. Now, Planescape isn't exactly dead serious itself, but it comes off as more sensible, with black comedy for flavor, whereas Spelljammer starts with a silly concept and never lets itself stop feel like it's laughing at itself.

Finally... races. These are a big part of a setting's appeal, and if the new races don't sound fun, the potential fans can be lost.

Planescape gave us Bariaur (who were, admittedly, so stupid that we have forgotten them ever since), Githzerai (who admittedly needed Dak'kon to give them a shot of staying power)... and it gave use Tieflings, who have a very broad racial niche and appeal to many different audiences. There's a reason why the Planewalker's Handbook worked wonders by repeating the flavor with Aasimar and Genasi, and even Rogue Modrons have their charms.

What did Spelljammer give us? In the corebook... lizardmen. In the Starfarer's Handbook? We got:
* Ferengi-esque gnome-faced frog-people who apparently reproduce like seahorses (Hurwaeti).
* Firearm-obsessed dumb muscle mercenary hippo people with some British colonial army stereotypes on top (Giff).
* Arrogant, hive-minded tauric lizard-people (Dracons).
* Greedy, mercantile centipede-taurs (Rastipedes).
* Gorilla-people (Grommams).
* Gliding chimpanzee-people with foul mouths (Hadozee).
* Mad biologist uber-individualist mantis-people (Xixchil)
* Nazi-esq "Super Orcs"

Buildin on what I said, and are right in that Planescape was also the "edgy punk/90s" setting, so it appealed to the same sort of "cool nerds" crowd that other edgy RPGs like the World of Darkness did.

are you saying those races don't sound fun?

because a 9 feet tall hippo man with a love for gun and yelling Bully! is awesome

>totally ignored penguin-merchants
Sad!

Many people didn't think they sounded fun. Or thought they sounded stupid. Or thought they were just too goofy and/or niche to plunder for outside settings. The numbers speak for themselves, in this case.

They weren't a PC race, though. They were just another monster you ran into, like the space selkies who turned into killer asteroids, the horses that ran faster than light, and the ultra-thieving junk-collecting space gypsies.

Star Wars is more science fantasy. Star Wars spaceships fly around because engines and hyperdrives guided by computers. Spelljammers fly via magic guided by wizards.

Just like how most zombie games focus on radiation/nanomachines/biological agents as the cause of the undead instead of magic.

I think I will combine these together.

Different spheres/systems in the same material plane can be reached through the phlogistin. I will probably keep spheres/systems solar system sized, and I'm not sure about keeping the literal crystal spheres. If I don't keep them , phlogoiston will be a conterminous plane allowing fast travel. If i do keep literal spheres, then it will be what is in between them.

Travel along the outerplanes can be done along the river styx or river oceanus, or other interplanar paths like the world tree. The spelljammer can sail along these rivers and enter the outer planes through the various areas that these planar paths intersect the material plane.

Finally, travel to entirely alternate material planes (themselves containing many worlds/spheres/systems, or even their own outer planes) will be done through the deep shadow, run by a mostly Grell society of dimension hoppers. These alternate material planes will be very alien compared to the rest of places that can be travelled to. The deep etheral can be subbed out for the deep shadow here if preferred, a lot of people seem to like that better.

I think there probably won't be anyway to sail to the far realm (really why would you want to).

Demiplanes may be accessible in certain places but this would be difficult.

I will probably de-emphasize sigil. Sigil is definitely my favorite part of planesacpe, but I think at some point you have to pick if your game is going to be about living in one cool city or exploring lots of different stuff. I don't know if you can have both at the same time.

I honestly don't get that

Giant Space Hamster, Tinker gnomes, Penguin Merchants that ride flying space swine

it's sound goofy and awesome

Dnd Space should be Goofy, Weird and Dangerous and in Spelljammer it is

I think it's just a taste thing. Not everybody likes goofy. If you do though, spelljammer is great for you.

I'm not a huge fan of goofy, but I still run spelljammer and make it a tad more serious.

agreed. i always downplay sigil in my planescape games. it is a place to get quests, get portal/spell keys, and live. my sigil quests are always like "a fated as made paper work saying you owe back-taxes on your property. he'll drop the taxes if you do him a favor."

For many people, goofy =/= awesome. For a lot of people, especially as this was the late 80s/early 90s, when "edgy" was the "in thing" after the waning of the Satanic Panic, the cheerfully silly aspects of Spelljammer just tasted bad.

That, or it was the overt Age of Sails thing.

I like Spelljammer's almost '2000ad-lite' goofiness, as while it doesn't take itself seriously it doesn't go with the snide "Man, this is really stupid" quip-ness so much 'nerd' media goes for.

>it doesn't go with the snide "Man, this is really stupid" quip-ness so much 'nerd' media goes for
That didn't really start until almost two decades after Spelljammer was made.

The far realm is past the astral iirc, or deep deep deep in the Ethereal. I think the biggest breakthrough was into the demiplane of nightmares for the Far Plane. Gates of Firestorm Peak is a great adventure for how it ran Far Plane slow but steady corruption to a mountain.

Just use ethereal ya bum! Shadow stinks!

whats wrong with Age of Sails?

Ok ok lol. Anyway isn't the far realm supposed to be outside of the multiverse?

I remember it had some overlap with the plane of dreams in 3e, they mentioned that if you passed through the dreamheart you might reach it. It was really lovecraftian in 3e.

I never played gates of firestorm, do they go with the creepy outside of space and time feel for it?

Does anybody else not really like the inner planes? Planes based on spirituality and philosophy like the outer plane are fine, but I just don't like the whole 4 classical elements thing.

Also, kinda related, one of my favorite things about 5e was moving the positive energy and negative energy planes beyond the outer planes.

The Far Plane simultaneously connects to the plane of potential (ethereal) and the plane of thought (astral). It is far, far outside of normal reality, but can be accessed with powerful enough means.

The Gates of Firestorm Peak is a great adventure that starts of very light on the corruption, but as you go deeper within the infectious madness of the far plane is more and more visible. You begin to have nightmares or bouts of madness, you encounter strange, warped entities, and eventually you begin to be attacked by actual far plane natives like brain collectors. At the very bottom is a super gate that was once used by a vast and powerful planar empire that all collapsed in one night because they attuned it to the Far Plane and let the wrong things in.

I couldn't stand the Great Wheel at all. Felt too hackneyed, too obviously "filling spots on a grid for the sake of it".

World Axis was far more intuitive, for more gameable, and felt way more like a planar structure an actual fantasy world would have. Heavenly Realm, Faerie Realm, Realm of the Dead, Elemental Chaos, and Physical Realm.

As a bonus, it made Spelljammer much easier to integrate; now, Spelljammers travel not only between material plane worlds, but to every corner of the multiverse, essentially using the Phlogiston to replace the Ethereal Plane from the Great Wheel.

The inner planes are pretty barren, but they're fine. The quasi and para planes are more interesting I think, and have more room for adventure via elemental warfare (djinn vs efreet, water elementals vs salt elementals, so on) and there's some faction bases there as well as inner plane sects like the Alchemists.
It is also extremely deadly, save air (or water of you breathe it) so only high level folks are likely to travel there anyways and by then you're sure to have plot hooks for their visit to the inner planes.

Yeah I agree. For example, the way Eberron handles planes is a lot more fun than the great wheel. Some of the great wheel feels very uninspired.

I think my biggest gripe is I just don't like the 4 elements thing. It's kinda forcing the whole earth/fire/air/water thing and I'm just not a big fan of that, even in fantasy.

The Greek elements are fine, you can replace them or remove the inner planes entirely if you want though. It's not like enough happens there to make it's loss notable (though I dislike what 4e did to them)

I run a hybrid Planescape/Spelljammer game myself, wherein the PCs sail the Great Wheel in a highly advanced spelljammer, alongside many others.

I take a few cues from the World Axis and 5e's cosmology, however:

• The Region of Dreams, also known as the Veil of Sleep: This is a new plane that exists sandwiched between the Ethereal Plane and the Astral Plane. Whenever a sentient or sapient creature sleeps and dreams (in my cosmology, all sapient creatures require at least two hours of sleep each day, both of which are dreaming sleep), their mind/soul transfers to this plane and creates a dreamscape out of the protomatter drifting from the Ethereal Plane and the ectoplasm floating from the Astral Plane. Within that dreamscape, the creature's memories copy themselves, crystallize into memory cores, float into the Astral Plane, and gradually ferment into ectoplasm, which subsequently gives birth to spirits* and the Outer Planes.
*This includes elementals. In my view, elementals are spirits born just as any other animistic spirit: from people's memories of such concepts. Like any other animistic spirit, they are transported to a new home plane upon birth

• The Ethereal Plane: The Deep Ethereal is also known as the Elemental Chaos, and is much like the 4e plane of the same name.

• The Prime: There is no Phlogiston. Once you leave a crystal sphere, you are no longer considered to be in the Prime. You enter the Border Ethereal/Misty Shore, and from there, make entry into the Deep Ethereal/Elemental Chaos.

• The Inner Planes in General: The Para-Elemental Planes and the Quasi-Elemental Planes no longer exist. Just like in 1e, the Inner Planes are reflections of the crystal spheres of the Prime Material Plane. Any given crystal sphere corresponds to a section in each of the Inner Planes.

• The Negative Energy Plane: This is also known as the Plane of Shadow or the Shadowfell, and shares many traits with those planes. Like any other Inner Plane, elemental pockets are in abundance here. It is inhabited not only by negative energy elementals (also known as "entropic" elementals or "nightshades"), but by many undead who gather in themed courts, as well as Atropus. For mysterious reasons, this is the one plane that connects to other multiverses, and so alien creatures from other cosmologies and from the many Far Realms wind up here as well.

• The Positive Energy Plane: This is also known as the Plane of Faerie or the Feywild, and shares many traits with those planes. Like any other Inner Plane, elemental pockets are in abundance here. It is is inhabited not only by positive energy elementals (also known as "vivacious" elementals or "spiritovores"), but by many fey who gather in themed courts, as well as Ragnorra. This plane is home to the soul fonts which provide the souls for all newborn sentient and sapient creatures in the multiverse; these soul fonts are squarely the domain of positive energy elementals, much to the chagrin of the fey.

• Example Hybrid Elements:
Acid: Hybrid of water and negative energy
Blood: Hybrid of air, water, and positive energy
Body: Hybrid of air, earth, fire, water, and positive energy
Cinder: Hybrid of air, earth, fire, and negative energy
Cloud: Hybrid of air and water
Coal: Hybrid of earth, fire, and negative energy
Darkness: Hybrid of air and negative energy
Dust: Hybrid of air, earth, and negative energy
Explosion: Hybrid of air, fire, and negative energy
Frost: Hybrid of air, earth, and water
Lightning: Hybrid of air, earth, fire, and water
Magma: Hybrid of earth and fire
Ooze: Hybrid of earth and water
Plant: Hybrid of all air, earth, fire, water, and positive energy
Radiance: Hybrid of air, fire, and positive energy
Radioactivity: Hybrid of air, earth, and negative energy
Rust: Hybrid of air, earth, water, and negative energy
Sand: Hybrid of air and earth
Smoke: Hybrid of air, fire, and negative energy
Steam: Hybrid of air, fire, and water
Dust and radioactivity are both hybrids of air, earth, and negative energy, but manifest in different ways
Explosion and smoke are both hybrids of air, fire, and negative energy, but also manifest in different ways
Compare: Fried eggs and scrambled eggs, boiled eggs and poached eggs

Am I doing anything particularly stupid here?

Only if the fact that you're taking the already "big map full of nothing interesting" approach of the Great Wheel's Inner Planes and making them even *more* complex and full of nothing interesting counts as "doing something stupid".

Although I will point out that most of these were actually canonical "sub-planes" of the canon Quasielemental and Paraelemental Planes to begin with. For example, there was a sub-plane of Radiation in the Inner Planes to begin with back in Planescape.

In what world is planescape "edgy"?

I used to play in a group that mixed both. It was pretty insane and barely coherent as to what was going on each session. Still loved it, though...

You don't believe in Solid, Liquid, Gas, and Plasma, user?
Your view of the universe is rather curious.

Dude, like half of all the Planescape fluff is some jackass sitting around in Sigil making fun of other settings for not being as 'clued-in' as he is.
It's older then you think.

It sounds like you put a lot of time into this, so no its not stupid. If you and your players like this then you did a good job.

I've thought of doing it as solid/liquid/gas/plasma. That would make a lot more sense. My issue is it doesn't really seem to map. Like the plane of fire is more a plane of hot stuff then it is a plane of plasma. For example, you have lava and ash there.

If the plane of earth was a plane of solids, we would expect ice to be there, but ice seems to be between air and water which doesn't make much sense.

Uh, let's see...

The Harmonium - Sigil's cops, need I remind you - are power-hungry thugs, they abuse their powers, their doctrine boils down to tyrannical group-think "for the greater good", they oppress the Indeps for having the audacity to say "we refuse to join any Faction", and, oh yeah, they committed genocide on all Neutral Good and Chaotic Good races on their home-world, because not being Lawful made them as bad as the Evil races... except the Lawful Evil races, who are best buddies with the supposedly Lawful Good Paladins leading the whole shebang.

The Mercykillers literally take their Faction name from their desire to kill mercy as a concept in pursuit of "purer" Justice.

The Bleak Cabal believes that there is no great meaning or purpose to everything.

The Dustmen think we're all dead and we need to embrace stoicism in order to ultimately free ourselves from a cycle of endless torment disguised as life.

The Xaositects worship total anarchy as the ideal state of mind.

The Revolutionary League are a bunch of anarchistic spies who ultimately sabotage themselves.

The Blood War explicitly rages because the Forces of Good are too weak and ineffective to have a hope of stopping it, even if all of the Upper Planes unite.

You need me to go on? Planescape fluff fucking breathes edgy 90s GenXer attitude. It's a smorgasbord of cynical navel gazing and ego masquerading as meaningful, all drizzled with the finest pretentiousness and black comedy that TSR could provide.

I have no idea where you are getting the idea that I would be created plans of rust, sand, smoke, steam, and so on, particularly when I explicitly stated in that I would be eliminating the para-elemental planes and the quasi-elemental planes and instead using an Elemental Chaos.

The setting is def edgy but I think your last statement is a bit of an exaggeration.

I think part of being a good DM is taking just the good stuff that your players would like from any campaign setting and leaving the rest behind.

Sorry, all the talk of Hybrid Elementals, combined with this line:

>Just like in 1e, the Inner Planes are reflections of the crystal spheres of the Prime Material Plane. Any given crystal sphere corresponds to a section in each of the Inner Planes.

Made me think you were replacing the canon Inner Planes with these new ones.

Keep in mind that it follows an archaic understanding of the universe, where the extent of our universe is our solar system, and all the stars are embedded in a firmament or the inside of the crystal shell.

So in actuality, while each sphere contains a "universe" they're not as massive as the actual universe.

Alright all, if we are going to fuse space and planar travel into one setting, we should come up with some cool spots that exemplify that.

What type of location could have both? Maybe a spelljamming port over an area in the material plane that also contains one of those interplanar rivers or trees. The world tree was mentioned before, but maybe that is too overdone?

Wait there were crystal spheres in 1e? I thought outer space was just like real world outer space in 1e, and mystara was somewhere out in the vega constellation or something like that.

An asteroid field held together with the roots of a world tree, air provided by infinity vine that coats much of the surface. Defended by a small fleet, as well as stellar dragons and elementals that make the asteroid cluster their home.

I like it. Aren't the stellar dragons the absolutely huge ones? I've always wondered how they compared in power to those epic prismatic dragons from 3e, since both seemed to be by far the strongest dragons. I'm leaning towards the stellar

Let's run with that. Who makes up the fleet? Is it any of the traditional spelljamming factions, or is it some unified alliance.

Can some of the seedier groups like neogi slavers dock there, or just humanoids/giff

Also what type of planar creatures tend to pop up from the world tree? It runs through Limbo, so maybe slaad and Githzeri?

There is a Planescape adventure with a crashed spelljammer in the Abyss, so they canonically do get around.

Also, whats the X factor. I feel like every setting needs a hook beyond just "here is a place with stuff".

Pirates turned essentially River barons, charging a fee for use of 'their' port as well as taxes and fees for things passing through. They have an uneasy alliance with the elementals and dragons, paying a tithe to it out if their profits. The pirates are a mix of giff, humans, and outcast neogi fleeing the fate of becoming a great old master. They do, indeed, protect the sphere and scrupulously are honest in their dealings, though they are exploitative in applying their fees to those that annoy them. The Harmonium would love to get a foothold here, but as pirates run the place they've no love for the hardheads. The more seedy elements of the free league have a significant presence in the fleet itself, and the Merkhants have tried to muscle their own trade routes as being exclusive there, but so far have had little success.

The setting reminds you how the Lady of Pain is SOOOOO powerful: 1 drink.
People from the Prime Material are portrayed as dumb rubes: 1 drink.
The rare sight of a smart Primer, or a Planar painted as a dumb rube: 3 drinks.
Pictures of Tieflings looking different and varied remind you of the terrible homogenization effect Draenei had on them: 1 drink.
A Bauriur shows up, and you try to figure out the logic behind goat centaurs: 1 drink.
Faction philosophy tries to be deep, man: 1 drink.
The Faction's plan actually makes no sense and goes nowhere: 1 drink.
Xaos faction shows up: 0 drinks; things are bad enough as is.
Stupid rebus-language: 2 drinks.
Modrons: Cheer, and 1 drink.
Based Xanxost: 1 drink.
Characters are thrust into a situation they have no understanding of: 1 drink.
...through circumstances they have no control over: +1 drink.
The Portal Key is something awesome: 1 drink.
The Portal Key is something stupid: 2 drinks.
Oh, hey, a really oddball, fun corner of the outer planes that shows interesting creativity: 1 drink.
Oh, hey, a bland presentation of a place that will just kill you, and you shouldn't go to, but we're going there anyways: 2 drinks.
Characters face something that they have no odds of defeating in combat, dialogue, or retreat: 1 drink.
At the end, characters got no tangible reward: 1 drink.
...Actually, the 'reward' was secretly bad, like a curse or an obligation or a 'favor' from somebody you don't want favors from: +1 drink.
...and no XP, because everything was too hard to kill but we're stuck with 2E's XP system: +1 drink.
...and the PCs have no idea what the point or purpose of their actions was: +1 drink.
...and there actually wasn't a purpose: +1 drink.
...because Unity of Rings, yo: groan, and +1 drink.
^#$&ing Orcus: chug.

What hellish gm did you have running a game for you, that all sounds awful and not at all how it should be run. Fuck Unity of Rings, XP had plenty of reward options for non-combat resolution, and Orcus can suck a dick (or should I say Tenembrous)

...Seriously, if there are ANY Planescape Tiefling pics that don't boil down to humans with one or more of the Horns, Tail and/or Hooves trifecta, I would give anything to actually see them posted, because I've never seen them.

Seriously, WoTC didn't revamp the tieflings because of Dranei, it's because no artist ever used the fucking table that came out 2 years after the damn game was first published in the first fucking place!

There's a couple in Faces of Sigil.

Name them.

Farrow's Tiefling identities? We only have text descriptions, but we know nothing about Wellrock, Burberry is "red tinged", and Aza Dowling is "horned".

Kylie? Human with a barbed tail.

Sly Nye? Human with big, elf-like ears and clawed fingertips.

Alluvius Ruskin? Human with short horns and a long, leonic tail.

So, you're right, but the one tiefling we have art for looks more like the elven characters than anything else. I wouldn't call that a real triumph of variability, personally.

I can't argue with that, but it's still more than goat legged, horned guys. Green scaled, three eyed, four armed tieflings are in short supply.

When did we ever get any of those "green-scaled, 3-eyed, 4-armed" tieflings in the artwork before 4e, though?

If the vaunted variables - which, as I said, weren't even a thing you had crunch for until the Planewalker's Handbook came out 2 years after Planescape was launched - were actually represented in the artwork more, I could respect the complaint, but in my actual experience with Planescape artwork, nobody ever used them!

Pretty weird to be complaining about WoTC admitting "okay, we always drew tieflings the same way anyway, so let's give an actual reason for that" when that's actually the case, as far as I have seen evidence for.

Even if this were true, that would imply 'tieflings with short horns and thin tails' - which is how 4e describes them in-text.
Then all of the art giant fucking horns and tails.
Just
like
draenei.
They even made sure that, in the stupid cartoon commercial, the tiefling had the draenei accent.

Well, in all honesty, Draenei were probably ripped off of Diaboli, a D&D race from Mystara who were extradimensional good guys who happened to look like purple-skinned devils with cloven-hooved feet.

The biggest problem with planescape is that the great wheel is boooorrriiiinnngg.

Pretty much every other setting's cosmology in DND, including most of the assorted random ones presented in the manual of planes, are better.

The elemental planes are stupid and empty and nothing happens. The outerplanes don't get enough cool shit in them. Its like filling in the grid as a previous user said.

I've heard a lot about Spelljammer but I've never seen an actual book. What should I be looking for to get started, and where can I download it?

The essentials are the Spelljammer Boxed Set and the Starfarer's Handbook - the latter in particular is the source of all of Spelljammer's iconically "wacky" races, with the box set only including Lizardmen.

As for where you can find them... no idea; I'd love a decent copy of the Starfarer's Handbook myself, because all I have is a text-only file that's hardly legible.

So, anybody got a decent copy of the Starfarer's Handbook to share?

And on a different topic, what's the one Planescape book that you absolutely would have to recommend to anybody to try and get into the setting?

Planewalker's Handbook. I believe MageGuru's TSR trove has a good copy of the Spacefarer's Handbook.

>tfw lucky enough to have a copy of the core box and CGR1 SFHB