/tgesg/ - Weekend Elder Scrolls General

There's an old obscure half-for-fun, half-actual-lore post (that Kurt might have made?) about how Tiber had a lisp like...some Roman Emperor that I don't remember. Anyway, because of it, during his invasion of Resdayn, he couldn't pronounce the word 'guar' and so called them "tigers" instead. One mustn't forget his favorite childhood story, The Water-getting Girl and the Inverse Tiger. This resemblance can be seen on the banded guar charger, relative to the Deshaan tiger guar, which has stripes like a tiger.

Can you be a little less cryptic?

>So instead, you all get to share Barenziah.
I'm okay with that
t.Barenziah

Misrememered that a little, it wasn't even Rome. It was Carthage. It also wasn't a lisp, it was the inability of Tiber (Hannibal) to pronounce words in Dunmeris (Latin). And MK posted it.

Anyway, the quote:
>Lizards. Another little known fact is that the Imperials often refer to Guars as 'Tigers'. Here's why: during a tour of Morrowind in the earliest days of the Armistace, Tiber Septim became enamored of the beasts. On the mainland, and specifically the Deshaan Plains, Guars are striped. This, coupled with the fact that His Holiness was never able to pronounce 'Guar' correctly (his troubles with the provincial Chimeric tongue is legendary), led to Septim finally callings them 'Tigers', from a fabled recollection of a storybook beast he loved as a youth. The new name stuck. Even now, Dres slavers often refer to their cattle-Guar as Tigers.

okay

>Captcha: Sagging Wood

I'm not being cryptic.
Back when Nirn was being created, life did not posses form. It is not until the death of Y'ffre and birth of the Ehlnofey that life begins to take its shape on Nirn.
The Bosmer, like all other elves, are Aldmeri. 'Aldmeri' literally just means 'Elven.' The Bosmer however, are a group of Aldmer who took Y'ffre's sacrifice, and subsequent establishment of the Ehlnofey (Earthbones, spirits that died and became what are essentially the laws of nature), to heart. It's what defines them, and likewise came to separate them from the protypical Aldmer.
The Aldmer were the first 'Elves,' basically the Elves that existed when 'Elf' just referred to one group, a collective Elven whole. They stopped being a 'race' when specific groups of Elves, like the Bosmer, developed their own distinct cultures and broke off from the collective whole (this represents the mythical destruction of Aldmeris, the continent (the literal destruction of Aldmeris, the language)).

As said before, the Bosmer, broke off from the Aldmer. They followed the path they saw set by Y'ffre (whose sacrifice resulted in the creation of the Aldmer) and became their own distinct people, the "Green Pact" as they call it, their covenant of sorts with Y'ffre.
With the insights they have of Y'ffre and the Earthbones, the Bosmer still retain the knowledge necessary to escaping the set laws of nature, the forms given to them by Y'ffre. This practice is what is known as the Wild Hunt, the Bosmer's ability to shift their forms. However, the practice is profane and sacrilegious to Y'ffre, and so only used in times of great need.

Thank you. All I needed.

>that derp-ass Peryite

I'll host Scrollhammer on Maptools tomorrow if anyone's interested in trying it out.

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Tell me about Dagoth Ur.
Why does he wear the mask? If I took it off would he die?

Deepest lore

What is the best school of magic, and why is it either illusion or alteration?

He needs more love.

When user?

Just you wait. You'll see. One day, you'll all see.

They would have received assistance in building them from their respective lords, of course. And assistance protecting them. Perhaps send some scamps and other low-tier laboring Daedroth to assist, and Dremora to help guard.

Around 16-17 GMT, hopefully. I'm pretty flexible from there on out.

Also I'm not working on Monday, which means I'm even more flexible then.

"Peryite's summoning day is the Ninth of Rain's Hand, but an incense can be created from vampire dust, one silver ingot, a deathbell flower, and a flawless ruby that will allow one to communicate with the Prince."
I hope that in the next TES game, wherever it's set, this is how we start the Daedric Missions. Little hints in books or loading screen text or dialogue about what day we can summon a Prince on or what ceremonies we have to preform to do so. It'd be cool. Though, that would also mean we might miss out on stuff like Sanguine's bar mission in Skyrim, which was pretty cool.

That would be interesting actually, in an actual game of TES 5E or something. Have the players be challenged by some wizard in a tavern to a game of nine holes, to progressively higher and higher stakes, until they wake up in his realm or something.

Hell I'm not familiar with ES lore but I have to ask.
We have multiple origins for certain daedric princes.
Like the standerd origin but than you have the whole 'Molag bal is from the previous Kalpa'
Which is true or is it a 'all are true' type deal.

M Y S T I C I S M

Usually the latter.

What's that?

They're all true, or none of them are true, or both.

Part of it is different cultures in universe having variations on origins for certain things. Some of it is Elder Scrolls, like a lot of video games, to have shifting lore because of gameplay changes or small retcons or just background info not being there. Most of it is the developers just being inconsistent or intentionally obtuse.

But than you have things like akatosh being Auriel but Auriel still having things like there own bow appearing which means it has some truth but the dragon avatar in oblivion.
Does the belief influence the way thing are or is it just weirdness.

Nobody knows which are true.

Compare Abrahamic Theology: Is Jesus Divine? Ask the Christian and he is. Ask the Muslim, and they'll say he was just a pretty good prophet. Ask the Jew and they'll say no, he was a charlatan. Even christians disagree on some basic issues, like the existence of saints, the Holy Trinity, etc, etc.

Different origin stories for the different daedra are just theories in universe.

A bunch of morons in the real world have taken the presence of "multiple competing theories" and unable to deal with the fact that one or more of them might be wrong, have adopted the theory that "all of them are true". Those people are morons though. The simple, honest answer is that we don't know, but it's fun to roleplay like the proponents of individual theories as if we were religious and historical scholars of the Fantastic TES world.

imperial-library.info/content/mysticism-unfathomable-voyage

As the newbie who asked the daedric prince question.
What is the 'canonicity' of this website and all the weird stuff I hear that's rarely talked bout in game.
Like the whole 'eye of magnus is a time traveling robot' and stuff.

Which is the best weapon in Tamriel? The bow or the spear?

Most of IL is canon, since it's resources pulled from the games. The rest of it is arguable, since it's obscure kirkbride ramblings.

It really depends on your definition of "canon", and how you feel about kirkbride.

That book is in Oblivion, so it's definitely Canon. Only the Game Books are canon, the ones you find in the games. If it's ESO, it may or may not be Canon.

TIL houses both fan-made 'Apocrypha', essentialy fan-fiction, and the actual books from the game, and also some semi-canon or possibly-canon works from people who actually have worked with Bethesda. It usually says so in the Author and Librarian Comment.

If the stipulation of your caring about lore is determined by canonicity, you're in the wrong series.

Yeah isn't ESO in the ambigious area of canon and non?

Yeah. They fucked up a lot of things with the lore, and I think Beth's PR golem guy Pete Hines or whatever kinda hinted that Todd didn't consider it Canon.

It's another grey area. There's a whole lot of grey areas to canon. most people will consider the stuff they like canon, and the stuff they don't like noncanon, if it's in a greyarea.

yeah, my c0da is just as valid as the game works amirite?

ESO was made with basically no input from Bethesda, so it's hit or miss in a lot of different areas. Lorewise, some things are directly lifted from other ES games, so obvious those are fine, and some of the new stuff doesn't affect previous lore. But a lot of it is either completely off base or just stupid.

There's no official statements on bethesda's side about whether it's canon or not, and there's a twitter post by some pr person (I think) that says it's canon. Of course they say it's canon, but nothing official has been said against it.
But of course it does some stupid shit at times, like a popular book existing that shouldn't exist for a long while.
I tread it as secondary canon, whatever doesn't directly contradict established lore, like the realm of the flame atronachs is "canon" to me, butthe book existing at that time is not.
>yeah, my c0da is just as valid as the game works amirite?
That really depends, but I'm assuming you're meming about c0da and therefore completely missed the point of it.

I've heard the word c0da before, isn't it like 'everything is canon due to weirdness'

Yes, and don't let any Kirkbride dickrider tell you otherwise.

It's kind of a pointless discussion right now, seeing as we'll only really know one way or another once TES 6 comes out years from now. So I don't see much of a point in discussing it. Really, discussions about canonicity end up being wastes of time that could be used for discussing actually fun things.
We've all been down this road a dozen times, there's no need to do it again.

Here's what Schlick had to say:
>Q: Do you have any co-operation with the creators of the single-player TES games, with regards to lore from ESO showing up in a future TES, and such?
>A: I'm personally in regular communication with Kurt Kuhlmann and Bruce Nesmith at BGS. We talk about that sort of thing, but really, whatever those guys decided to use or not use from ESO in future single-player titles is entirely their prerogative.

Everything else you'll read is speculation. Just read the actual statements by devs, ignore everything else, and wait until we actually get a new singleplayer game.

More like everything "can" be canon.

what do you mean by 'can' ? I guess sorta like 'it justifies any mods you have' type of deal?

c0da was basically Kirkbride seeing a nonproblem in the lore community, and attempting to correct it. You see, there were a lot of arguments on the lore subreddit about what qualified as "canon". Kirkbride thought this was bad, because some of his work wouldn't be considered canon by some of these people! How horrifying!

So he wrote up a script and commissioned some art for a comic that nobody who cares about canon would consider canon. The goal was to get those same people who care about canon to recognize that anything can be canon. It didn't work, and every now and then we have a shitpost fight about c0da, where people who appreciate fanfiction fight it out with people who don't. It's irrelevant to 99% of lore though.

Here it is if you're interested. It's certainly worth a read, though I would hesitate to call it good.
c0da.es/

>notto_disu_shitto_agen.png

No, it isn't.

He absolutely did not. This is how rumors start.

>I guess sorta like 'it justifies any mods you have' type of deal?
No. That's why I called it "meming". It doesn't justify mods. It justifies roleplay.
Ignoring mods for the moment, let's look at the games.
You can be guild leader of most guilds, or you could ignore their quests be leader of no guilds, or only do certain quests and be leader of a single guild.
Which is "canon"?
The subsequent games for the most part purposefully ignore outright stating if the previous hero was the leader of any, all, or none of the guilds.
So what's "canon" there?
What's "canon" about the specific weapon(s) the heros specialized in? Or armor? Or clothes? Were they rich? Did they constantly donate to the poor? Did they hoard ancient artifacts? Sell them for profit? Steal everything not nailed down? Murdered hobos in the streets?
What is canon here?

But utimately, this is not a canon thread. This is a lore thread.
I don't care if the nerevarine was an axeman or a spearman. I care if he could be an axeman or a spearman.

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Everything after arena is not canon.

I think the answer is obvious.

This was a bad joke, user.
But an attempt was made, I'll give you that. 3/10 try to time it better or ramp up the bait factor.

lol he's so mad about a game he didn't play

He did in my c0da

Well said.

Not really, he has an obviously negative bias.

The best magic school, that even the non-magical can find some utility in. Because Recall and Soul Trap and Detect things.

Recall what's that?

All those other spells are in real schools.

Nobody cares about what weapons the Nerevarine used, or what guilds they joined. People care about the lore behind the whole Nerevarine process. Was the PC fated to do it, or just the lucky one in a long line of prisoners to actually succeed at mantling?

That's the sort of thing lore discussions are usually about. And when people discuss lore, they typically want something with some basis in the games, not your fanfiction. Lore discussions are canon discussions, and c0da will never change this.

All c0da did was add a new alphanumeric word to the canon fights.

And here's the adoring MKfag IDF, right on cue.

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And part of the nerevarine process is being able to walk any path, which includes which weapon specialization they choose.
>Lore discussions are canon discussions, and c0da will never change this.
You're right, c0da will never change this.
c0da is irrelevant here.
But lore and canon are not synonyms. No amount of insults will change this.
If you would like to make a canon thread, feel free to find the appropriate board and do so.

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Fanfiction is not lore user. Lore is a discussion of what is canon, and what is not.

I really, really miss Ted, his books are great.

You calling things you don't like "fanfiction" does not make it so.
It makes you look like a child.
Lore is not restricted to just what is canon. In fact it can include things that are not canon.
Canon is a discussion of what is canon and what is not.
They are not synonyms.

You really drank the kool-aid on that there c0da didn't you? Since at this point you aren't putting anything substantive up, just merely negating anything I say, I think I'll just ignore you.

Mysticism is boss. Highly underrated. However I would say that nearly all its effects could be done just as easily with Alchemy (even a Potion of Almsivi Intervention, which sounds like a great item for pranks to me) whereas that's harder to do for Destruction and Illusion.

>Your subjective opinion is wrong, here's mine.

You calling things you like "lore" does not make it so.
It makes you look like a child.
Lore is restricted to just what is canon. In fact it can't include things that are fanfiction.
Lore is a discussion of what is canon lore and what is not.
They are not synonyms.

Remember to wash dead souls thoroughly, or the new owner might experience phantom memories.
Take note, Hist.

merriam-webster.com/dictionary/canon
merriam-webster.com/dictionary/lore
They're not synonyms.

>lore: a particular body of knowledge or tradition
>canon: a body of principles, rules, standards, or norms

Lore = canon. Lore =/= Fanfiction.

Now fuck off back to your r/teslore circlejerk.

Could you provide an example of something that is noncanon, that you would consider lore?

>lists two definitions that clearly have different meanings
>Lore = canon
Man, I literally give you a dictionary definition, you read it, and you still fail to understand how words work and why those are not the same thing in any sense of the words.
Are you perhaps not a native english speaker?
The return of the Numidium, at this point in "canon", is not canon.
But according to c0da, it will return. And it is in the realm of possibility that the games could bring back Numy for whatever purpose they want.
So the return of the Numudium is simultaneously lore and not canon.

True, but I'd rather not be forced to use Alchemy, though I wish Bethesda would revive Mysticism in that way if it came to it. So many spells have just been dropped, or included only in Shouts.

The lore of the TES world is not the same as the lore about the lore of the TES world, which is what c0da and any unofficial Kirkbride or other author Apocrypha is.

at this rate, boethia's face should be replaced with Almalexia since they are "one" now

also

>night mother looking mephala

Actually, the numidium returning was done while kirkbride was still employed IIRC, so it would fall into the category of canon. c0da jumps off of that idea and goes into other stuff, which is noncanon, and desu, not of much interest to most lore discussions.

You can't really be this retarded.

Once again, and read very carefully, cupcake:

>lore: a particular body of knowledge or tradition
>canon: a body of principles, rules, standards, or norms

A body of knowledge or tradition has no meaning as a concept if it's not set as a standard, principle or norm. Otherwise you end up with the exact kind of relativist slurry that you and MK are desperately trying to push so that your gay little stories aren't 'wrong'.

>So the return of the Numudium is simultaneously lore and not canon.

And by this logic any of us write any old shit we want, screech autistically about how it's TOTES LORE GUISE XDDD and shit up the thread discussing stuff where there's no common ground whatsoever.

This is a lore post.

Boethiah is a haddock made of glass. This is lore. It is not canon but it is totally lore, and MK agrees with me, and that makes it right. It is lore and so it is good for us to discuss how Boethiah is a haddock made of glass, which is now a part of TES lore.

This was a lore post, thank you for reading. Pls reply with more similar TES lore to this.

I'm not gonna pretend I know when he came up with the idea, but nothing in the games say so.
As far as my knowledge goes about it, numy returning is a c0da story.
If you would like to provide some course placing the time of numy's return, please do so.
>A body of knowledge or tradition has no meaning as a concept if it's not set as a standard, principle or norm.
Wrong.
It is "lore" the roman pantheon lived upon mt. Olympus.
That is lore.
If we travel upon Mt. Olympus, we see there are no gods living there. There is no evidence of any gods having lived there.
That is canon.

It is canon a male peacock feathers look the way they do to attract a mate.
It is lore that they look this way because of lava rocks burning into it.

Dude shut the fuck up.

Still a better lorepost than

>THE UR IS RIGHT! THE INFO-FOAM IS READING ALMALEXIA’S MANIPULATION AND FORMING COUNTER-RESPONSE SEX-AGGRESSION BREAKBEAT HORNET-SHAPED HOMING MISSILES OUT OF COUNTLESS GANGSTA RAP MUSIC VIDEOS! THIS MIGHT GET UGLY!

>this thread

The High Elves became so sickened by the idea of Akatosh and their Auriel being the same God that was clearly helping the humans during the Alessian Revolt while their own demigod Kings and armies were struck down that they used the Tower on Summerset along with their Dawn Magic to metaphysically separate him into two beings.

Thus Auriel and Akatosh are distinct in their motivations yet are one in the same being.

Or, as is more likely the case: two geographically close cultures created similar pantheons that diverged and converged in many ways.

just like in real life.

That was Marukhati, not the elves, you dumbo.

To be honest with you, I really don't see any good reason not to expect everyone to know the basics of alchemy. It's just too common, too simple, and too useful not to.
Every time I played Morrowind, I always trained alchemy enough to at least see the first effect of potions, because it's just plain useful to be able to know exactly what the stuff does, and for how long.