Magic mothafucka

It's mostly an excuse to have mages being somewhat rare in a setting, thus making magic present in the setting but still rare, hard to learn and mystical enough to make magic "magical". Avarage joe could still study runes and spirits and become a sage of great power, but he would be quite limited in comparrison to a born mage. And probably much older.
Or he could partially study these things gaining a few combat spells to use while being a martial.

I prefer inborn. I like it when mages are ambigiously human, somewhere between mankind and the monsters. Their magic and the way it expresses itself is innate and personal. It's not some standardized formula you can learn in a book, no two wizards or witches are alike, they are strange even to each other, and even stranger to everyone else.

I tend to prefer a variety of sources of,magic, though I also like it better when magic tends to be less codified. There isn't a 'burning prism' spell that summons a diamond shaped area of fire. Instead, pyromancy just allows the general conjuring and projecting of fire, the extent of which is based upon your power.

The only time I feel like named spells make sense are when they're just general techniques on par with 'roundhouse kick' in terms of specificity, or when they're magic granted by another entity and each effect is more preplannes and named as part of whatever agreement exists.

For my current setting, the different types boils down to innate magic for those with magical ancestry, mental magic that can theoretically be learned by anyone, but usually takes a lot of discipline and training to get the proper 'mind over matter' outlook, and then granted magic, which involves the more powerful entities with those different kinds if magic passing the ability on to a follower or servant

Good to see some cuckmaster made a rune thread.

From where do runes take the magic from?

Yeah but the issue is with the way most settings is with fantasy they tend to focus on wizards or monster.
Which still ruins the mystery.

It would need to be big part of the presentation for it to work, that's true. Pc's would really need to be special, or become special through out the narretive.

The astral depths accessed by the lay lines/world roots. Somewhere akin to the warp where thoughts and preception have meaning, therefore there are runes that represent them and hold power there.

Faustian.
Dark pacts where you pay in body and/soul, defiled bloodlines where every generarion after you will pay or divine "favour" where you channel the will, desire and gorce of a greater being, often at your cost.

If I wrote it would be
'The folklore and misconceptions came first, the 1st wizard just took symbols they thought had power through folklore or idiocy and they gained power through their belief and others'

But how do runes work? I have a hard time imagining runes working. When someone says "and he uses a magical rune to do whatever", I don't know what I am picturing.

Got any descriptions about how it works?

That would depend on if the rune is something that holds a constant effect or something you use to call on a spesific magical effect. First off I imagine them to be something you carve or inscribe on something to give it an ability.
Floaty glowing air runes and stuff like that are spells(with glyphs) and not runic magic.
Nordic runes were symbols for concepts so I imagine that tge rune user would need to understand the meaning of the rune to activate a non constant rune. The way I fluffed thoughts having an effect on magic is based on greek philosophy where the soul is made up of a thymos, eros and logos. The layers of the soul are tied to the body and go deeper into the astral where thoughts in the logos resonate into the astral depths.
The user remembers the meaning of the rune and focuses his attention to the item calling out the rune. His thoughts resonate with the bound magic, and the rune opens up to let the astral flow through it and manifest the magical effect.

The latter.

Ideally, I like it somewhat semi-realistic in that it follows certain rules and theories occultists IRL (the "western hermetic order" kind, not "internet teenage witch" kind) made, but with fantasy spin that actually makes it, you know, work.
where it's not ability to just make particular spells, but overall ability to will changes in reality (even if some most common changes are alike spells). A matter of particular frame of mind and approach to reality, very unintuitive and not natural to a person living in a modern world, reinforced by attaining spiritual authority and power through meditation, different practices, intelligent and wise contemplation of one's reality etc and not merely resulting in "now you can cast this and that spell" but in overall raise of one's powers and personal growth.

Genetic bit is kinda crappy, low-quality special snowflakedness.

>First off I imagine them to be something you carve or inscribe on something to give it an ability.
Yeah that's what I understand too.
>Floaty glowing air runes and stuff like that are spells(with glyphs) and not runic magic.
Ohhh, thank you! I thought those were runes too. Glyphs huh? I don't know how they work either.

I see, I like your description of rune magic. Thank you. Do you have one like that for your Glyph-based magic?

Which ones would you say?
Chaos magic?
Goetia?
I mean how hard would you make it to actually throw a bolt of fire at someone?

I feel that this discussion is going a bit off topic but I won't say no when it's the first time I've posted and recieved praise for my homebrew.
To guve you an idea of how I fluff magic is my answer to OP.
The idea is that "spells" are something only mages/wizards use, and that in order to use them you need to be magically attuned to the astral depths. This means that instead of relying on lay lines and bound power you have some part of the astral that listens to you (mana). Since it's directly influenced by your thoughts your own preception matters. Therefore mages come up with symbols to explain concepts relevant to their school of study, rather than the universally powerfull runes. So with these glyphs you can form your attuned mana anyway you can explain. And since you don't need an item with a bound rune you get to call on the astral directly while you calculate/weave whatever the mage does to make their spell.

I like it innate in origin and almost requiring training to do anything with.

Why?
I dunno, I don't like much the "you need a special talent to do magic" but I can understand it as the justification for why magic is more common in some settings, but I don't understand the appeal of the "almost don't need training" at all.

I've always preferred it as a learned skill (at least for those not descended from some sort of exogenously magical entity) since I generally think that's just much more interesting in narrative terms. I also agree with in that I think it works better as a more freeform art that allows the user to manipulate energy/forces/elements as they please within the limitations imposed by how well-trained they are. Set, codified spells can be justified as "shortcuts" that each individual caster comes up with in order to have certain effective techniques on hand.

Long time ago I made a setting with magic split into three types.

>High Arcanism
The magic of illusions, the elements, animation. Discipline is usually based on intelligence, higher learning and willpower. Despite being flashy and powerful it requires energy and can be hard to control. People who use it are called Wizards or Mages.

>Sorcery
The magic of conjuring and transportation. Taps into the primal power of the nether-realm, the other plane of reality where spirits and darkness come from. People who use this power gain Threshold, which essentially pulls them deeper into the nether-realm. Too much threshold pulls you in for a short period of time, and if you aren't prepared you could die to the perils there. People who use this magic are called Sorcerers or Conjurers.

>The Craft
The magic of manipulating people, spinning fate, enchanting objects and locations, brewing potions and magic charms. It is also called the Art of the Woad and people who use it are called Druids if male and Witches if female. Requires components from nature and blood sacrifice on occasion to power its spells.

While I've decided not to use this system, I still think it's kind of fun to think about sometimes.

Some neat things in there. Why the name "the art of the woad" though?
Google told me it's a plant you can make dyes from. Is it just a comfy term to relate it to druidism and crafts?

>I mean how hard would you make it to actually throw a bolt of fire at someone?
That really depends on the setting and how commonspread you want magic to be. Sometimes I like subtle approach to it with a mage being a man with a bag of tricks, sometimes I want people to blow shit up in proper power fantasy siwth hordes of demons and powerful wizard butchering whole armies of enemies without leaving his office.

>Which ones would you say?
I meant more of an approach of western occultism in comparison with teenage stuff in that it's considered a skill, a science, where one gains power not in a direct, crude way of "now I can throw 3 fireballs per day" but by getting overall potential to use magic however they want - at least in accordance with their preferences and tendencies.

If you'd emulate particular occult tradition, I'd say it again depends on the setting. I see stuff like chaos magic work well in urban fantasy since it's rather novel and modern take on occultism, but I wouldn't mind goetia mentioned in something more lovercraftian where consorting with powerful, often alien and hard to understand spiritual entities is bread and butter.

But it doesn't have to be very realistic to be good, though. I've enjoyed Dresden Files where the magic is halfway to typical fantasy, except the spells people use aren't anything forced but what they personally have aptitude for - main character even mentions himself he studied a bit of this or that but he's shit at subtle, fine and precise work and so he doesn't deal with things like illusion nor performs any more elaborate rituals, but he has plenty of power to make stuff go boom. Everyone can also learn it, just some have better aptitude toward it (or certain aspects of it) than others and there are different traditions resulting in different flavor to the whole thing. I only dislike the "electronics go haywire if one doesn't control themselves" bit and kinda heavy incorporation of religion.

Woad being old timey-limey term for woods and forests and shit.

If anyone can do it, I expect it to have shaped the setting's day-to-day life and culture significantly. The resulting world with spells that were highly available and highly freeform would look completely alien to our eyes.

If only specific people can do it, I still expect that, but it can be explained why it hasn't due to extreme rarity.

I prefer magic that does specific sets of things with specific limits. I like seeing people cleverly use a small toolbox rather than do whatever they want with an entire tool warehouse. It also allows for more interesting narrative scenes and tension when they know for a fact that magic can't get them out of this jam unless they can pull off this one, specific thing...

It also makes clever loophole abuse more significant, and I'm a sucker for that.

At the same time, if we go by fantasy examples I liked how it was approached in Wheel of Time. While some can argue that there's the whole genetic/muggle component, apparently everyone can develop some saidar/saidin abilities (and apparently there are paths to power beside True Source characterized by those two) it's just in universe no one bothers with anyone but those showing some power and promise from the get-go. However it's still neither some special flakedness nor knowledge from the gods, it's developing particular skills and state of mind, then learning how to visualize and manipulate subtle energies and turn them into what would go for spells in more generic fantasy.

Generally, while I certainly would see actually really semi-realitic approaches to magic in fiction, based on attaining spiritual authority and refinement of subtle bodies which leads to "unlocking" of certain powers in an adept, the way it supposedly is with hermeticism, the point is that I prefer the attitude of magic being a multi-faceted, ambitious skill yet also a science and integral expression of one's soul and will all rolled into one and develop-able in different ways and to different extents but by everyone. Not some innate claim of being better than others, not a set of secret words or hand gestures.

Magic in my main setting comes in like 2.5 flavors

First, and oldest, is Theurgy, or spirit magic. It's not so much doing magic yourself as it is tricking/bribing/cajoling spirits and (small) gods into doing what you'd like to have done. It's really dependent on your networking skills, your location, and how well you can kiss ass. Shamans, druids, warlocks, and some priests fall into this category. It's very common because any asshole can make an offering and get a reward.

Do it well enough and develop a deep enough bond with a particular spirit, and they can teach you boons, which basically let you do what the spirits can do, but worse and less often, or at the very least differently. A lot of the time, boons are essentially hereditary, because a lesser spirit's investiture basically makes you part-spirit,and you can pass that on to your children. Thus you get sorcerer-dynasts and witchlings, who basically treat magic as an extension of themselves. What they can do with it is generally pretty limited but they can exercise and train to get better with it.
Other priests operate on Investiture, which tends to lead to familial clergy and holy families and all that.

The last kind is Cabal magic, which gets sort of funky. As opposed to having a spiritual gift or having a god manipulate reality on your behalf, you learn how the machinery behind reality works and how to turn the wheels yourself. It's by far the most difficult, and highest risk highest reward. It requires many, many years of academic, theological, and philosophical training, as well as a certain not-quite-madness to understand the other 'layers' of reality. The upshot is you can more or less make the universe do what you please, and archmastery is pretty much indistinguishable from godhood.

Unironically Naruto approached 'magic' in what I consider the perfect way.

Everyone is related to what is essentially a god and therefore all have the energy to manipulate creation. Over time this energy was fragmented over however many people which leads to some people having a better mastery over a specific energy (fire, water, nature, etc.). Everyone technically has access to this energy but you need to train it to be good at it. But even if you train a lot, if you don't have a lot of energy you will only ever get so far (Rock Lee) and those with a lot of energy might be better learners (Naruto). Pure ninja families like the Uchiha clan have access to specific magic. In the newest series, they even apply technology to this magic using the foundation of the chakra system.

Funnily enough I hated Narut bastardization of eastern mysticism ("accumulating chakra" bullshit - next they'll accumulate liver) on top of the "you have to be speshul snowflake who got more energy from the gods" stuff you mention. Absolute bullshit.

> But even if you train a lot, if you don't have a lot of energy you will only ever get so far (Rock Lee) and those with a lot of energy might be better learners (Naruto). Pure ninja families like the Uchiha clan have access to specific magic.
This is the part I hate about naturoshit. The whole kyuubi thing and special secret techniques ruin it as a setting.

At least it was consistent with the foundation it set up from the very first episode

>The whole kyuubi thing and special secret techniques ruin it as a setting.

I don't see the problem with either of those. All that went wrong is they were subjected to shonen power inflation, but the basic concepts were fine.

I don't know why, but I love the DnD breakdown of magic. You're either naturally good at it, learn it, or make a deal with someone for them to give it to you.

I don't think you understand, other than the people who carried the tailed beasts; no one was really special snowflake.

They were about as special snowflake was Harry Potter was a special snowflake for being born into a magic family. They literally just carried the same blood as the progenitor of the entire ninja races.

>I don't see the problem with either of those
I see, you don't have a problem with mary sues. There isn't much to discuss after that.

Its either you like powergamer characters or you don't. I don't like "hey guys I have pretty eyes and none of you do!", it was fine that since he belonged to a clan he was naturally better than everyone else. That part is fine. But when he became a special marie sue it went to hell.

Same with the Kyuubi. So the guy is a loser and has to fight his inner monster, that part is fine. Oh, he has infinite energy? And not only that but there are 8 other characters just like him? Lame.

If you remove Lee, Gai, All tailed faggots, and all clans' eyes. Then you get a nice setting.

Yeah, there are no special people in any fantasy setting that are gifted with unique properties beyond their control. Absolutely none, it's only the case in bad universes.

Uh huh

or you know, real life. There are people in real life with genetic properties that only exist in that specific bloodline such as people who are immune to HIV.

Like I already said: basic concepts fine, went to shit later. It sounds like you're agreeing with me.

I prefer the "You need to bargain with (possibly) dark powers to obtain magic" type of magic. Kinda like warlocks.

I like your first part. I'm only kind of with you on the second. I'm not a fan of magic just being a branch of science.

But it's not science! The entire point of that was to show how you graduate from level to level, how magic is accessible and 'everyone' can do it, but it's not something everyone can do.

Arcane magic, spellcraft is the real hard hitting stuff. It's like repairing a car. Most people have enough mechanical skill to know how to drive. This is like craft magic, superstition magic. Basic stuff. Fewer, but still many people can change the oil or a tire. But only a few professional people can truly rip apart the engine and fix it, putting it back together again and getting it to run nice and smooth.

Wizards require induction and training to become Wizards. You can't just say the magic words and wave your fingers, you have to understand what they mean, and on top of that you have to WANT it to mean that. Wizards in many ways "feel" about things stronger then other people, which is how they cast spells that go beyond normal magic force.

Let me explain how I handle magic this way. At it's core, magic is just a wish or a desire. It's a bit of willpower, a bit of self-delusion, a bit of luck and fancy. When young teenage girls carve them kissing a cute prince on a shitty little clay tablet and then bury it under their bed that's a wish or a desire given form. In the real world, where physical laws rule everything, this sort of wish and enchantment does nothing. But in fantasy world it does, it will give that girl a little love. Maybe not the love of a prince, but maybe she'll have her Charisma raised ever so slightly, maybe a local boy finds her more attractive now, even if just a little bit.

But once you get to spellcraft all that shit gets inflated and blown up to x10. Imagine being an apprentice Wizard and being forced to scrub the floors for hours on hours, weeks on end. You're angry, jealous at the older students who just sit and learn and you're stuck doing chores. How long do you have to do this for? When will they teach you "magic"?
>cont

>cont

So you work your ass off every day, stewing in anger and resentment until one day your instructor makes you work personally. He has you clamped in irons and tells you that you will NEVER be good enough to be one of them. He works you hard to the bone, drinking water in front of you while you pant and sweat, denying you sleep, you work so long you can barely stand up straight, and then you're lead to a tiny suffocating room. The morning sun is coming up, you worked all through the night. You've been locked in a hot box and you're so angry that you want to explode. You've already decided you're going to kill your master once you leave, as this betrayal is so horrible you can't stand it.

But then, a light streams into the tiny room and the cracks in the wall actually line up. You see a symbol appear on the wall opposite you, a curvy line with a dot in the upper crest. All of your emotions for today, your desire to break free and desire for revenge, it's all focused in this symbol.

And then you hear your master whisper in your ear "This symbol means Sacrifice." and you pass out.

That symbol is one single exact component. Every wizard glyph used to channel magic and learn spells is made of hundreds of these, circling around the center, a hidden web of meaning, emotion, thought, and sacrifice.

Wizards are not science. Wizards are more emotional then anyone else. There's no other way for them to do what they do.

I'm planning on doing my thesis on magic once I get to grad school (still undergrad,) and I want to approach it from as many angles as possible, so this thread is super helpful to me. While I want to focus on "what is magic," the topic in question of innate vs learned ability is still really useful.

Some questions/approaches that maybe hopefully contrubute:
>Folklore as magic, Religion as magic, Technology as magic

>Science-Magic vs Magic-Magic
>SM has rules, is really just a different set of the laws of physics. Think reproducibilty, clear cause/effect, ultimately knowable. For Kingkiller Chronicle fans, think sympathy, alchemy, artificery.
>MM is weird, feels weird. Based on intuition rather than logic. Inherently mysterious. Patricia A McKillip is good at it, also found a lot in English fairy lore. For Kingkiller Chronicle fans, think naming.

>big question: is magic anything we don't understand but are forced to accept as true? If so, does it cease to be magic once we come to understand it?

Bringing it back to the topic of innate vs learned, innate is hard to explain in a Science Magic setting because no one, for instance, is born with an innate ability to do chemistry, or perhaps more pertinently, no one is born with the innate INability to do chemistry. Laws of physics, even alternate ones, work the same for everyone. Innate magic works better with Magic Magic because "it's just magic, deal with it." Also using vague genetic explanations is weaksauce.

Alright then we might have similar preferences. In a lot less words I think that professional wizards should be akin to professional concert pianist or violinists (or I guess any orchestra player). Anyone can learn to play an instrument but you need talent and a lot of practice to be great.

If it ain't scientific and mathematical, I don't want it.

But that has never been how magic was thought of historically. How could it be so when science was not a thing yet imagined until recently? The truth is that magic has always been the stuff of myth and legend and never of scientific mundanity. Scientific magic is just science in a universe with different rules.

>From where do runes take the magic from?
The truth.

>"accumulating chakra" bullshit - next they'll accumulate liver
Funnily enough, I think that there's an interview somewhere where the writer admits they fucked up when naming it Chakra and wanted to change it to something else, but he only learned he fucked up when the manga had already exploded in popularity, so he just had to stick with Chakra.

Yes and? Why should my fictional worlds comply with how humans historically thought of magic in the real world?

So, yeah. I made a magic system and I wanna hear your thoughts.

>setting has magic as 'recently discovered', so no healing, mind control or anything too complex yet (fireball is considered an advanced spell)
>magic is particle-based
>can be distilled into a concentrated form (explains potions of the stuff)
>can be converted into other particles (handy for particular spells)
>is attuned into every living being, with its own particular wavelength
>only when it's attuned can a spell be cast

It's quite the opposite. All ninja were special snowflakes against majority of regular people or even "background" ninja who didn't have same special powers and tragic past and shit.

Similar in Harry Potter, actually. You may not notice it because it rarely goes beyond boundaries of one particular group of special snowflakes but that's what magical folks are -a minority of special, powerful folks who can use magic for no reason other they were born special while normal people, muggles, are seen as at best as amusing curiosity and at worst untermenschen that have to be eliminated, even when according to the word of God - modern, disciplined, equipped army would be able to take out magical world.

Interesting but internally inconsistent. It has enough of weird qualities that aren't explained by anything than "it's magic" than there's no point with going with ideas of particles and mass than can be distilled and you can as well go with explanation of subtle energies or direct effect of will on reality at which point you're back where you've started.

I still would like you to work on it, but it doesn't really seem like actual magic system as much as some sort of artifact/single substance - some sort of mass responding/attuned to the thoughts of the person using it and able to morph seemingly into other things of different physical qualities. May be an equivalent/substitute for a magic in otherwise magicless world, or at least one available to largely untrained, common people while true magic, psychic abilities would still reside as an ideal and a myth, with little of proof for its existence outside of lab setting.

I'm sorry for derailing the thread, but these magic systems were great reads.
If something is consistent enough that you can study and teach it it is sience, even if it's based on emotions or thoughts etc. It can still be abstract and mystical.

>But that has never been how magic was thought of historically
You're sure? Science defined as both an art and a science is quite common IRL and certainly it was treated as a science in the past, with people studying, contemplating, experimenting with it.

>do a lot of things a fully mortal wizard probably can't.
I hate shit like this. I like variety of magics in my fiction. Not some superiority complex based on lucky genes.
Think D&D, elves are innately magical, but humans are still -at least- their equals when it comes to the arcane.

>Or at least like a much higher affinity and skill with say demon related magics.
This even. Demon magic perhaps being just one of dozens of types of magic. It wouldn't necessarily mean said demon-sorcerer is better than other bloodlines, traditions and upcomings.

Why is magic suddenly not magic if it's labeled as an arcane science? That's such an overused and baseless argument.

Anyone can use it if they learn it. Otherwise it defeats the potential of magic as a metaphor for science.

>Think D&D, elves are innately magical, but humans are still -at least- their equals when it comes to the arcane.

This is why I love Dungeons & Dragons so damn much regarding its magic system. It's always the non-magical ones that become the greatest mages, not those born into it.

I had an idea for a magic system that relied on drawing energy from different sources to do spells, and depending on what type of source the caster draws from, determines what kind of classification their magic is.
For example:

>Wizardry
Draws from ambient magic energy that is all around but pretty weak. Spells usually take a lot of cast time as they gather the energy. Basically everyone can be a good wizard because it all comes down to what they know about magic.

>Sorcery
Draws energy from their own life energy. This is where genetics come into play where some people just have more magic in their blood or whatever. Spells have very little cast time but the user eventually gets tired as they use more of their magic energy.

>Divine (Miracles?)
Energy from a deity in exchange for worship/service or whatever.

There was more too but I can't be fucked thinking of them and I doubt anyone cares.

But that's exactly what I'm going for. I started my approach of this particle-based system because it seemed the easiest one to do. I mean, there has to be something that makes magic work, be it some type of energy or force. That's where the particle comes in. Willpower is pretty much left intact.

Though I can agree with you in that this system looks like a precursor of magic. At least, as you say, in a magicless world that just 'discovered' it.

Neither. Magic is a dangerous, unpredictable force and not to be handled lightly. Those that can control it are not mortals and those that think they can are gibbering fools.

The latter. Though for me, it's less "having the smarts" and more just believing it'll work hard enough.

I just like it cause anyone can learn it if they have smarts

>Do you prefer it to have some genetic trait to use it like harry potter?
>Or do you prefer it to be more 'anyone can learn it if they have the smarts' Like say Dnd.
Whats funny about this is that both are covered by D&D. Sorcerers are "genetic" based casters. Their ancient magical bloodline gives them the power to cast spells.

For myself I like how D&D does it, with a huge variety of different spell casters all accessing magical power in varied and different ways (even if the end product is presented in a unified manner via Vancian spellcasting). Taking from the more crazy things late in 3.5s life span, the Truenamer, shadow magic, incarnum, and pact magic are cool in so many different ways.

PFs magic classes are wonderfully varied and provide so much interesting fluff.
From witches who pledge themselves to all kinds of various patrons who implant their spells in a familiar, to spiritualists who are psychically bonded by trauma to a spirit who grants them insight into the powers of life and death, to the worshippers of spirits and nature (shamans and druids), to those whose faith in the gods is rewarded with power whether they want it or not (oracles, warpriests, and clerics), to the standard sorcerer and wizard and several others. Another nice aspect of PF is rituals, accessible to anyone with enough time and the resources and proper skill to pull off. From simple rituals that bless crops that any town would know, to the big ones like turning into a lich or entering the realm of dreams.

The latter.
Magic as the cheat codes of the universe. Takes a few decades to learn, but hey after that you barely need to lift a finger again, technically.

Also means you can have hedgemages and spellswords who put in a year or two to learn one thing really well, for tactical flexibility or whatnot.

I think you're hung up on things being "fair" when unfairness is a big drive behind a lot of stories. A mortal mage might not be as powerful as one from a demonic bloodline: that forces him to make up the gap not by getting more powerful, but by using the power he has more cleverly. Same for people born with no magic at all, it's not fair, but they make do with what they have being clever and determined. The people with the most power might be the people who deserve it the least, but that's no different from real life and something that drives a lot of conflict in a setting. Other people deal with it, one way or another.

Both approaches can be interesting and it really depends what the setting is going for, but I like the family themes that come with hereditary magic, and I find learned magic a little too convenient sometimes.

True wizards have genetic lineages to use magic. Their bloodlines tend to have specific skills, and they're more powerful than other magic users.

Anyone can learn to use simple magic that relies on the power of special items, though. They just can't do anything without those.

My homebrew runs off the latter. Anyone can use magic, the ability and quality is determined by how much you invest into it. Magical and Material are separate forms. All things are made up of physical matter, magical matter, or both. Material-only things are dead, like sticks and stones, because their bodies have no spirit in them. They respond almost entirely to physical forces. Magical-only things are dead like ghosts and ghouls because they have no body to house their spirit. They respond almost exclusively to magical forces. Living things have both a body and a spirit, and can be affected by either kind of force.

Magic uses one resource: time.
Effects, metamagic, targets, area of effect, duration, etc all exponentially increase the time to cast. In combat, since turns are broken down into 6 second sections, the question is only "how complex can I make this spell?". But for ritual or out of combat spells, it might take minutes, days, or centuries to cast a given spell. The more you invest in magic casting capability, the more complex of spells you can cast in a given time, which would also reduce the amount of time it takes to cast the bigger, out of combat spells.

So if you're a party of just warriors, you won't be excluded from situations that need to be solved by magic, it'll just take a long time with more chances at running into complications, just like if you were a party of mages and you needed to muscle your way out of something.

I like a mixture of both.

People can learn it like any other skill, but not everyone is born equal. Some people are gonna be good at magic, some are gonna be good at talking to People, and some are gonna be better at fighting. Etc.

And genetics help magic happen more easily if good wizarding runs in the family

OP here, I have a few idea's for a system.
Anyone can use as everyone has mana, most people mana is close enough to be negligible as long as we are talking bout humans.
The magic itself can do anything... As long as you have the energy to break the laws of physics related to the spell.
So wizards try to be cost effective by trying to break as few laws as they can.
So instead of just making a absolute spell of 'I am immune to fire' they make a more reasonable' spell of 'The heat does not touch me' type deal.
coincidentally certain 'elements' are much easier to do than others, most fire spells are simply converting ones mana to heat or just gathering heat in the area, ice is a bit more difficult as it requires taking heat away but you can't be like frozone and create ice from nowhere.
Another thing is throwing a true lightning bolt is nigh impossible without some help.
A lightning bolt can contain millions of volts and a shit ton of heat energy, more than a human body can contain, that does not even getting into shielding oneself from the heat, light and sound of it as well.

So you have terrible tastes? Alright.

Latter

Like this, only there's more of an art to it and several different kinds and sources of magic.
It's more like painting.
Anyone can learn to paint a fence and you can train to paint portraits, but you need talent and dedication to become a master.

>I think you're hung up on things being "fair" when unfairness is a big drive behind a lot of stories
The opposite can also be said. This also isn't about fairness. It's about broadness which correlates to good storytelling and world building. Having a select bloodlines/inheritance as the most 'privileged' is a massive cop-out and limitation.

Though from what I gather, you're a biased individual. You do what you want, user. I just prefer quality magic systems, not something as narrow as yours.

I make my magic dangerous and fun.
Ex- a cleric casts a Resurrection spell, they fail and the spell revives the person but kills the cleric.

The "genetic mages are best" thing is an annoying facet for a lot of people regarding a lot of settings. It's as limiting as you say it is.

The proper way to do it would be "this select bloodlines is only prodigious in this *one* or *two* select facet(s) of magic, not everything", such as ASoIaF/Game of Thrones.

Why is scientific magic a bad thing, exactly?

It depends on the setting and the type of magic.

Urban fantasy settings tend to require the former in order to explain how the world looks like ours, as well as how a masquerade stays standing. Classical fantasy tends towards the latter because literacy/knowledge was rare and powerful in the times those worlds replicate. They both act to keep the number of magical people down to a manageable level.

There are exceptions: Cosmic Bumfights and Call of Cthulhu both are contemporary fantasy systems where magic is something anyone with the smarts can learn. The limiting factors there are magic makes you crazy and the knowledge itself is scarce. On the flipside, Exalted magic (for the most part) only comes to people who are special. The hard gating comes from the number of Exaltations hanging around.

Personally, I like to split the difference: there are symbolically powerful items that let anyone with the knowhow do minor magic, but the real heavy hoodoo requires talent and practice, and the talent can be earned.

Why is genetic magic a bad thing, exactly?

Why are martials inferior to casters, exactly?

>It's about broadness which correlates to good storytelling and world building.

I don't really see where you're coming from. Most settings have limitations, that's normal, it helps to build a consistent tone.

>I just prefer quality magic systems, not something as narrow as yours.

I wouldn't rule out any kind of magic. "Narrow" is fine if it suits the setting. For example, in Lord of the Rings humans have very limited access to magic unless they are born into a Numenorean bloodline, or are granted power from Sauron. That suits the tone of the setting just fine. I don't expect the same kind of magic from Eberron that you see in LotR, or vice versa.

I think the issue user has here is that this is a tabletop board. Having one background be *entirely* better than another is a rather stupid gimmick.
Innate magical capability outshining vigorous arcane study isn't that common to begin with, D&D being the biggest example of that.

I can fully and dully understand and sympathize his/her *broadness* angle.

>Innate magical capability outshining vigorous arcane study isn't that common to begin with, D&D being the biggest example of that.

inb4 butthurt sorcerers "we wuz born with magic n' shieet"

>Do you prefer it to have some genetic trait to use it like harry potter?
>Or do you prefer it to be more 'anyone can learn it if they have the smarts' Like say Dnd.

Harry Potter has both of that. You need the spark of magic and the smarts to utilize it.
A full blooded wizard isn't better than a mudblood. it's all based on talent and skill.

It tend to lead to Mary Suesque characters and is generaly more limitating for character concepts.
That and it almost only being used as a convenient excuse to limit the number of magicians and not giving magic any impact on the world outside the influence of a few characters rather than finding an interresting way to integrate magic to the world, creating lazy medieval settings with the fantasy elements not really existing outside the plot.
Obviously it can be done used to introduce interresting ideas but it's rarely the case.