/WMG/ Warmachine and Hordes General

Stacked with Iron Flesh (Which Buffed DEFENSE of all things) they were. End result was that like 3 elite units from each faction dominated the game.

What a Balanced Game MKII.

I can't wait from Monday
So many things could get buffed
Here's hoping for pic related buffs

This here motherfucker is by far my favourite Warcaster.
Though I love playing him and dont mind too much that I get assassinated almost every game after shooting 90% of my opponents army of the board, I have a question /tg.
What is the best way to make him competetive?

If I replace the Ravagore for a Sycthean and another Shepard (which I will do) should I still replace the Shredders with a Raek? Plus how do the hell mouths do, I liked how they looked and sounded so maxed them out but if its better to theme the force then I guess I'd do that instead...

prepare for massive disappointment

I always thought warmachine was the second most popular wargame after 40k and its affiliates but this thread is super dead.

There's a "new" and "improved" edition of 40k on the block soaking up everyone's attention, while the simplifications that came about with the newest edition of Warmachine threw many hardcore players into a fit of outrage and made the internet a cesspit of shitposting for the franchise and discourage actual attempts to discuss the game. It's still the third most popular game in my locale after 40K (including its thousand gibbering young) and X-Wing.
But hey, LMAO DED THRED = DED GAEM AMIRITE BROS?

>Get into 8th because I like the large ranked units but AOS takes all my gaming buddies away.
>Decide to migrate to 40k but it simplifies to the point were I no longer have interest
>Find out warmachine just had the same thing happen and is now a ghost town on this board.
Is anywhere safe from the impending stupification? Any bastion of understanding a middle ground?

Dropzone Commander has moderately complex rules that mesh well with the fluff, but good luck getting people to try it if 40K is at all popular in the area. "hurrr what do you mean MBTs are 1.5" long in this game,this isn't epic at allll"

And Warmachine still has a hell of a lot more complexity than most games.

Its really not that simplified. More people bitching.

>I always thought warmachine was the second most popular wargame after 40k and its affiliates but this thread is super dead.

Time for everyone to admit, Warmachine isn't that dynamic of a game. PP had success for awhile but it was about half luck with Mk 2 and DC...and about half the fact GW sucked.

GW not sucking so bad anymore is going to have a pretty negative effect on PP. If GW continues along this path and gets tight Warmachine like rules, it's not like PP has a rich fluff to build on.

Personally I find that gw continues to suck, its fans are just morons.

Fucking marinier marines. And they flaunt how fucking awesome they are by the fact that they will mindlessly purchase them all again. Only to GW fans can you sell a slight remodelling as a whole nee faction.

Warmachine DOES have excelent fluff, just more in worldbuilding then in character interaction.

40K has exclent fluff concepts, but has not done anything with them really except stress chaos vs imperium.

Primaris marines look cool though. This is coming from a guy who doesn't own any 40k and has only played wm. They're like a mix between normal marines and terminators. I'm gonna buy some kits of it. Also Primaris marines aren't a new faction, they work with the normal old ones.

I know that.

Ultimatly GW plays by a whole other set of rules. As long as its models look good people buy them. They care about its gameplay a whole fuck ton less.

It feels like every game that competes with them is trying super hard to make decent rulesets, but GW just theows a bone every once in a while despite being overall shit, but get called great.

>As long as its models look good people buy them.

GeeDubs does have that going for them; their mechanics are fucking awful, so you can get field whatever models you like the look of and trust that the randomness of the mechanics and general lack of differences between models will give you a fairly close game.

PP could do well to make a more beer-and-pretzels version of their game to sit alongside the "main" rules. It could help alleviate the need for power creep to keep sales up, encouraging folks to buy models that look good for the "casual" rules set without having to worry quite so much about what it'll do to the tournament scene.

>Find out warmachine just had the same thing happen

Never happend. PP just used streamlining as an excuse for the new edition, but actually it was nothing but a big meta shift. The game is largely unchanged apart from 2-3 major rulechanges.

Every model recieving new individual cards was the only real change MK3 brought. The core rules and their design, complexity and function still are the same.

They do that all the time it just never catches on.

The one looking to catch on is Company if iron thats more skirmish sclae, encourages customization, is shorter and more fluffy.

>Warmachine has excellent fluff

This is in by no means a defense of 40k's fluff but...Where? Where does WarmaHordes have good fluff? Have we been reading the same books? The Warmachine world was initially very interesting to me, but the shit-tier writing of it has made me not give a fuck anymore.

The WMH hordes novels are as bad as 40k novel (some exceptions like Abnett's books exist though).

But the IKRPG books paint an interesting background world for the TT. It's just not one cohesive story but a cluster of many small ones. You hav to read it like most other PnP sourcebooks too and connect the points yourself.

If you're looking for good novels and similar products both WMH and 40k are the wrong place.

So someone answer me this
If Warmachine is all spam nowadays, why would people leave for 40k, which is now "spam harder"

Selective expectations.

Because warcasters still change the entire way an army plays.
Because focus management and warjacks are still a thing.
Because there is more of an invitation to use synergies rather than just complement battlefield roles.

I keep finding it weird that players compare wargames saying they're similar because of a meta aspect. That's like saying "Why would people leave 40k for X-wing if all they do is spam tie-fighters" back in 2013. I dunno? Maybe beause it's a different game, with a different scale sweet-spot and a different setting that appeals to different people.

I don't think you understood me
I'm saying that the people who leave Warmachine due to "spam" are hypocrites if they go to 40k, where the name of the game now is "spam harder"
I'm not asking why people leave 40k for warmachine

Sorry, shit reading comprehension, missed the for.

I think the reason for that is that a lot of WMH players played 40k first and got sick of it but didn't sell their armies. With 8th edition being such a big change, many players are going back to it mainly out of curiosity seeing how the edition was a breath of fresh air in terms of bloat. Give it a while and players should be getting bored of 40keks again soon enough or will get back into playing both games for different itches.

Yes, Thag2 loves Raeks, they've even got Long Leash now, so they can be twice as far away from your caster and still be in control range. They are great for picking off solos or getting sneaky assassinations off on the opponent's caster.

Back when he still had Deadeye, the answer was "throw Deadeye on your dudes before feat, kill 100%". Nowadays I'm not so sure how he works.

>Warmachine fluff good

You're on drugs user. 40k has excellent background, fluff and has had some serious talent writing it.

Warmachine fluff is about the same level of fluff that fan fluff 40k is. And that's the stuff PP actually pays someone to write. Most of the stuff done in house is cringe inducing shit.

Depends on what you mean by "fluff." The Iron Kingdoms is an excellent setting with loads of detail.

It depends. If non 40K fans read it, it counts as good writing.

Mostly they dont and its mainly popular with its own fanbase. Because the setting is stupid over the top intentionally.

>If non 40K fans read it, it counts as good writing.

No, sorry, not even a 40k fan but it would never be considered good writing. This isn't a familiarity thing, this is a 'lack of skill' thing.

>The Iron Kingdoms is an excellent setting with loads of detail.

It's a decent enough world, from the 30,000 foot view. When you start getting into details, the writers fall apart.

Yup. Its origins as a d&d setting are visible. Still a very fun setting.
Thats what I meant. In general the settings writing is shit and its defenders are mainly 40K fans

Khador's premium infantry was DEF 16 or higher and it was still the worst, save for minions maybe.

...I'm scared to ask.
I mean, I know that Banes were absolutely horrifying, but what else was there?

I was referring to Warmachine. 40k has many good authors in their ranks, Abnett, Ian Watson and ADB are examples.

When are we going to see other regions like Zu and the Western Continent?

Trolls cid rules when?

>GW not sucking so bad anymore
As in sucking even worse? 8th edition is abysmal.

>As in sucking even worse? 8th edition is abysmal.

I've played since RT, I'm an oldfag. And it's one of the better editions.

Trolls drop tomorrow.

Honestly, after the War Wagon, I'm not too hopefull for any real changes.

Have hope.
That's what a Trollkin would do!

Trollkin CID's gonna be such a shitshow.

Why? The Wagon is awesome. Play it with Grim2 and destroy the world

I honestly doubt it. 40K sets itself up for staticity and being really stupid.

>staticity
I have news, user...

40k has a few pretty great writers and some good books, but like Warmahordes most of the actual stories are pretty terrible.

The lore for both settings is pretty neat in my opinion but its fine if you're not into either of them, there's plenty wrong with both of them. It's ok to enjoy a setting even if it's bad though.

You know, for fun

If you think GW is going to move the story forward more than the inch they have for 8th you're going to be disappointed user. GW is doing a lot of stuff to fix their image but they're still GW.

I know 8th edition. Everything changed and so did nothing. Fundementally tge setting has locked itself into a position where any legitimate changes would also invalidating minis.

Plus chaos ex machina can always go "fuck it"

Yup, good times.

Fuck Mkiii, still not balanced, but with worse rules.

Ha, you're hilarious user

And there we see the new age whiners. Proving its not spam or bad balance that nothers them. Just not having the shiniest toys.

Just looking back at mk. 2 seems like a strange place.
In most reports Dire Troll Maulers seem to do the most damage not by hitting people with it's giant fists, but by throwing its' allies at the enemy.

Which was still doable in mkiii until people complained.

You know that I think about it, it's really weird that Warmahorde allows you to attack your own dudes, but 40k doesn't.
I understand it's for game balance, but still. Warmahordes doesn't feel grimdark enough to justify that lore-wise outside of like Skorne, Cryx, or Legion.

Khador would totally do it as well, menoth has already, and Cygnar has the guys it attacks insulated.

What? Neither is true.

It has plenty of room for really awesome stories of the boots on the ground doing shit.

It's a fucking setting. "Moving it forward" is the dumbest idea that the fans could ever come up with.

Wait, I thought you couldn't attack your own dudes cuz of "Toss the Snake."

If it wasnt stupid then its retarded. Im sorry but mixing issac asimovs the foundation with a heavy metal album cover xant really result in anything but silly fun.

When the setting started smelling its own rancid farts and became serious did it get dull, and retarded as opposed to fun and intentionally stupid.

>mixing issac asimovs the foundation with a heavy metal album cover xant really result in anything but gripping stories

ftfy

I agree that overall they have taken things to be too serious, but I've only seen that in the "higher tier" characters. They should have had those guys had all the depth of Agamemnon or any other character in the Iliad. Yeah they will talk for a bit about the drama they are dealing with, but then get right to fighting and killing shit.

And there we go, smelling farts. Tell me honestly, do non 40K fans read that stuff?

Its a setting based on being stupid with bullshit. When you wax poetically about that, its like an even less self aware man of steel.

Judge Dredd thankfully mainly avoids smelling its own farts for instance by remaining cartoony at bital moments

>Its a setting based on being stupid with bullshit. When you wax poetically about that, its like an even less self aware man of steel.
This is true for literally every series based on something popular ever. Whether it's a game, franchise, or something else. It's all terrible, just accept that.

People read it because they enjoy the setting for whatever reason and enjoy the story. If you think any of this stuff is somehow great literature you're a moron

>Its a setting based on the fact that in the grim darkness of the 41st millennium, there is only war.

I know you miss Rogue Trader. There is a lot of awesome stuff in Rogue Trader. However just because your favorite parts of 40k aren't the primary parts doesn't mean the rest of them don't have awesome stuff.

Then again, seeing how you completely ignored my last statements I'm certain you are just going to do one more rant instead of actually engaging in conversation.

You can attack your own dudes in Warmahordes. The new edition added the restriction that you cannot charge your own models and a later errata added the restriction that you cannot target your own models with a power attack.

Both of these were added to stop random abuses in the rules. People bitch about this line they do everything else

>40k has excellent background, fluff and has had some serious talent writing it
Not a wmh-fan, but 40k background is bland, dated and sometimes pants-on-head retarded. Well, iron kingdoms is not much better nowdays, to be honest.

Like the new new new new new new new new new new for reals this time saviors of the imperium?

Or how tge emperor was bad
No good
No bad
No good
No fucking bad
No fucking good and the last part was fucking chaos
And no that above was propaganda!

But in seriousnesd I can believe tgat there are individual fun stories, but as a collective the fluff is a mess.

Alright, this will be the last (You), troll. I already addressed this topic

I hope you find someone else who enjoys your fetish for replying without actually conversing.

>Alright, this will be the last (You), troll.

Actually I play khador.
>padumpish

I think 8th actually does remove that restriction. I remember listening to a video talking about what uses it would be.

The meta is still pretty anti-ranged right now, so I'm not so sure Grim-2 will be destroying anything any time soon.

And for why the War Wagon isn't that great, it mostly boils down to the fact that it really only has one worth-while attack (the Quake Pounder) and if you miss with it then your main reason for taking the Wagon is pretty much wasted (even with Shooting Gallery, missing with a RAT 5 attack is still a very real possibility outside of a feat turn. It's just unreliable). At least the Gun Carriage guarantees 2 craters every turn.

It also has mediocre melee capabilities (remember, it can't knock things down with impact attacks, only it's main charge attack) and the maneuverability problems of a huge base are compounded even further by being in a medium-based faction.

I mean, the Wagon is alright. But it still isn't very good.

I don't know about wagon, but Gun carriage is incredible. Even before all the bullshit Khador caster buffs. I don't see a reason for wagon no to be good.

Its solid. Both honestly have merits.

Its melee (against infantry at least) is really great and can threaten a whole flank.

Considering how they redesigned it, it works fine. You can get allot if utalitarian work with it even against heavies. Knockdown 1 heavy, slam it, hit it and knockdown everything in a 5 inch bubble sans yourself.

Also your wrong, it has knockdown as a default, and slams on non impact attacks.

It effectively always has boosted melee attacks on a charge.

>Also your wrong, it has knockdown as a default, and slams on non impact attacks.
Oops, yeah meant to say slam not knock down.

> Considering how they redesigned it, it works fine.
I guess. It is a shame that after so many massive buffs it still just works "fine."

Like Im the guy who got banned for saying "tanks dont like melee" and i gotta admit mechanically its way better if visually completly retarded.

TODAY'S THE DAY

>padumpish
what you're looking for is *rimshot*

Hi, I am a new player. So far, I have Kryssa's battlegroup, a Raek, and a Carnivean. Would it be a mistake to make Blighted Ogrun Warspears my first unit? Their spears get the Thrown quality so they can fully utilize Kryssa's feat, and Nephilim Bolt Thrower is currently my sole ranged unit.

Im not sure. Whats going on is tgat PP (privateer press) has implemented a thing where they playtest every new release as well as older stuff. So even if it gets no good now it may get love later.

I don't know much about legion, but I don't think they're used that much mostly because they're hella expensive due to kinda needing the UA. Plus they don't really fit with the Legion's general strategy of super fast glass cannons.
If you're looking for ranged stuff, consider perhaps some Raptors? They can end up being a real pain in the dick with reposition.

It didn't. It was poor wording in the rules that could lead some people to believe you could. Basically, you could target a "unit" during the shooting phase, but nothing else past that because the rest of the rules specify "enemy unit". So you can target a friendly unit, but then you wouldn't measure range, roll dice, apply wounds, etc.

Legion guy here, I hadn't actually looked at the Raptors before now. They do look like a better choice than the Warspears, thank you.

Weird question: I got the box that has pieces to make one of three Legion Heavies: Carnivean, Ravagore, or Scythean. Planning on magnetizing, but I have to ask: does anyone know why the box came with two nearly identical tails, only differing in the direction they curl?

maybe the pose of one of the models causes the tail to bump into another part, so they have another tail for just such an occasion?

> after so many massive buffs it still just works "fine."
I find that very reassuring as it pretains to the CID system.
I was afraid people would bitch so hard about a model it would get buffed to the point of needing another CID 6 months later.
I take this as a good sign of things to come.

Oh boy, can't wait for troll beast bricks become even more overpowered.

Tell me a moment you remember from one of your games that still makes you laugh.

>Sending a buzzsaw tumbling into Deneghra1's stupid face with magic rolling

>Trollbloods
>Overpowered
lol

>Send stormclad onto a bridge.
>Friend has a fucking reaper
>Harpoons the stormclad into the water.
>Stormclad drowns
I was mad, but I should have seen that shit coming a mile away and it was funny with the hindsight. Needless to say, I lost with all those points gone in the blink of an eye before the battle really started.

>Playing Coven
>Warjack gets hit with a Thunderbolt gunshot
>Slides backwards into base contact with Egregore
>Warjack disappears (Egregore gives stealth to B2B models)
>Rest of unit cannot shoot him
Duh.. where'd he go?

>troll beast bricks
>overpowered
?

he lost to trolls once, so they're OP

>be my boy, the Marksman
>move up 5" to hit a concealed Eiryss1 to win scenario or lose
>roll the 10 to hit
>roll boxcars for damage

gg ez