The HP issue

20xd12+5 con+(2x20 from tough feat)=380 hp.
this doesn't even account for the fact that the barb would most certainly have some magic equips boosting his con past human limits.

yeah. I LIKE this one.
so far this is a real good thread. I'm probably just a uncreative person for needing to ask this question.

HP represents the amount of blows a person can take within the constructed narrative of combat user.

Either it was a lucky shot, or you can play it off as a precursor to a string of bad luck the opponent, in effect, having the Epic-level PC recognize the dart Thrower's skill and go on the defensive.

Remember, not all fights have to meet the matter of a satisfying battle, but you do have to present a satisfying interactive story.

So, the PC got a crit in, you'd best pop it up to him immediately targeting the Dart thrower under the false impression he's a threat and that persons life is in danger, and you've got a really good fight strategem ahead

The dart strikes the barbarian in the forehead and sticks.
Roll Perception to notice it.

no that seems like an obvious difference.
a full hp person with low total and a high total hp person with low remaining are nothing alike.

a boromir with 3 arrows in him can probably take about the same amount of orc arrows more as a hobbit could. and the hobbit is unwounded.

Hit point bloat in D&D is a real issue for stuff like this even at reasonable levels, but why would you ever play a 20th level game? Moldvay Basic effectively stopped at 14th level and that was honestly too high (though your chances of surviving to that high a level were admittedly low). And classes were lower powered in that edition than most others. Once people start getting 5th level spells, you should start thinking about winding the game down, in my opinion.

So my answer is that I would try to avoid the situation entirely, but if I had to work with it, I'd say that level 20 characters are beyond powerful and are basically demigods. This means they can do impossible kung fu flick shit, meaning their reflexes are so supernaturally good that even a critical hit becomes little more than a graze. Plus, a level 20 barbarian might be able to withstand a shot directly to the head,

I 100% agree with this and this is how I do my battles. my issue is that a "crit" (a critical hit) should always hit.

I don't have all attacks directly hit just because the person rolled for damage, even if the damage total is high but when they crit. I don't think it's right to say. it grazes past their head or it almost hits him then he ducks out the way.

What edition is this?

Dnd 5e

as no one saw this I'm posting it again.

>if you're still here I'm curious to see what you can do with this. not trying to bait or anything.
everything is the same accept the dart is now a cannon and the total damage is now 175 damage in total. wtf is a DM meant to do with that.

pic unrealated

>In a bar fight
>Declare my attack deals non lethal damage
>I'm a monk so I have no penalties to it
>Attack
>Hit
>Roll damage
>Due being decisive strike, superior unarmed strike, improved natural attack, monk's belt and other shenanigans I deal 80 damage on average
>Poor smuck dies instantly
How? I declared non lethal damage, this is silly

Man, I'd forgotten how out of whack hit points have gotten. In old school editions, you quit rolling dice or getting constitution bonuses once you hit name level. That means a 20th level character would have something like 9 hit dice + 9 times their constitution bonus + maybe 33 hit points (3 per level after they reached their hit dice cap, though this is the top end of things). So if we were to look at a 20th level Basic fighter, he'd have 9d8 + maybe 9 from Con bonus* + 22 from levels above hit dice cap = 71.5. And that's still way too many hit points, in my opinion.

*You could luck out and roll as high as a +3 constitution bonus, but that's certainly not something you could count on with flat 3d6 (and that would still only get you to 89.5 hit points).

>Throws a dart to a demigod
>Expects to do something
Yeah, so unfair, the other day I saw a palestinan kid throwing a pebble to a tank and the tank didn't imploded, the fuck is this??!

>declare nonlethal
>dies anyway
sounds like a rules-jerk dm

I would double-check barbarian's character sheet, because going over 300hp should not be possible.

The cannonball hits the barbarian in the chest and you can hear a few ribs cracking as he's knocked to the ground, as the dust settles you can see him stand up, he's definitely having injured but he's also pissed and still has a lot of fight in him

There's a rule saying that if your target takes more than half their health in samage while downed they die instantly, it's a variant rule, if you didn't know your DM was using it, that's kinda rude.

but it's a headshot
>can you headshot with a cannon?
yes

not only is it possible even without the tough feat I added but it would probably be more seeing as a level 20 barb has a max con of 24 meaning with all possible factors it can go up to 420 hp.

>Headshot
Were you using called shots? if not, is not a head shot, you aimed at his head, but your crit doesn't turn it into a headshot

Like I said before, I wouldn't run anywhere near a 20th level game, but if I did, I'd probably just embrace the whole thing and have the barbarian take the burnt of the cannonball and get back up. Either that or he catches the fucking thing.

>the tough feat
I guess we're each talking different edition.

5e has Tough feat, +2 HPs per level

If you were talking about 3.5, being above 300 healt for a Barb is piss easy

The barbaruan tries to grab the cannon ball in flight and succeeds, unfortunately he's not strong enough to completely stop it before it slams into his face breaking his nose and fracturing his skull, a normal person would not be able to continue fighting in this condition but hatred, will power and obserd physical toughness keeps the barbarian standing

read the thread and understand why everywhere you post people call you a retard.

if you think a level 20 barb is as strong as thor then you should be ban from DnD.

HP represents fighting spirit. 18 damage from burning hands on a high hp character =/= equal being engulfed in flames
it means the spell is very strong and seriously burns you a limb
18 damage on a low damage character would engulf them and as a DM I'd probably force them to go prone or continue burning for DoT damage.

people enjoy DnD more when they're emerged. nothing ruins emersion like “the ballista bolt ricocheted off the rogues chest.”

>move at mach 3
>punch a dude
>not only he's able to react fast enough to attack me because I provoked an AoO but also neither of us turn into red mist upon my impact
And before you ask, yes, my current char moves at mach 3

The barbarian, seeing that he is unable to get out of the way in time rears back his head and headbutts the cannonball with all his strength. You hear a resounding crack as the projectile is deflected to the side, you aren't sure if it was the barbarian or the cannonball. The barbarian is dazed but still standing. His unfocused eyes turn in you direction and he snarls.

HP only makes sense as meat points in DnD, some attacks have secondary effects like swallowing or poison that only make sense if the attack connected

thinking about it I'd probably have him catch it and have the cannon push his arms back and have it hit his head but have it so him catching it slowed it down enough for him to survive. he'd then be knocked back 10ft and be stunned.

full discloser. I've never run a campaign higher than level 11. this thread is me taking it to the extreame to idea mine how to fluff combat.

>Demigod
>Thor
I read the thread, but you clearly didn't read the sagas

A 20 level Barb is clearly on the realm of demigoddesness, he can swim in lava and emerge alive, he can rage so hard he flies, etc

The best example I've ever heard for how Hitpoints really work is they are simply a measure of your characters stamina and ability to evade/shrug off/roll with hits that are coming at them, so a 50 damage sword swing may have cut it's 200 hp target a little but it was mostly the evasion that wore them out, nobody can dodge or take hits forever.

>Coat my blade with contact poison
>NOW I'm way more precise with my attacks

>read the thread
>proceeds to not read thread

this whole thread is full of ways to get rid of the meat points meme.
the fact that you're aware of the criticism meat points gets and you're still head strong about it probably makes me think you're not willing to change though. if you're a player or DM I'm sure you're having fun regardless so I'm not going to try and convince you but play around with shit that in this thread and I'd wager that you'll like it more.

have you tried n

Hit points are inconsistent. Heal spells and continuing damage treat them like meat points.

Just use massive damage rules modified to fit the situation?

Not sure how to apply them to 5E but work something out of it.

Personally we avoid called shots, a crit is by itself assumed to hit a critical location such as the head

HP is literally just an integer

HP - damage
HP + heal

Boom

Meat points while stupid is built into DnD as a system

actual autism

>flying with rage
blah blah magic blah blah
>swimming in lava
"you hear a voice in your head telling your to jump in, you shake the thought away dismissing it as crazy, the voice repeats telling you to trust it, the two anchent dragons on your tail doesn't leave you with many other options other than to trust it, you dive into the lava and swim across the molten strream. despite the intense heat you manage to swim across, the heat molten rock feels like nothing more than a extra hot spring, as you approach the the end of the stream the heat becomes almost too much for you to bare but you soldier on and emerge on the other end. "thank you" you think to yourself but you hear no responce back, you can only assume what protected you from the heat but as the dragons see you emerge from the stream they take flight and continue their persute, you have no time to ponder, you continue running."

pretty much just jacking myself off at this point but you understand that level 20 characters don't have to be almost immortal. fuck even achilles managed to do epic deads from prowers alone and not due to the fact that he could take an arrow to the face.

not at all, a heal spell can act as a stamina boost. not to mention that you'll take scratches as you lose HP. it's not like you go from slightly tired with 4/40 hp to sword in the eye.

Meat points aren't stupid in and of themselves. It's just ridiculous to have so many of them.

>blah blah magic blah blah
Actually is not magic, it still works on an antimagic field.

>All that wall post
He can still jump again, and again, and several times more, and then, after 8 hours rest do the same, 8 hours rest and the same. In this volcano, in that one, in any one.

And yet he dies to a single crit like a little bitch.

>Not using crit tables that can ohko any target on a 100 d100 roll.

>Expecting a level 1 character to be a threat to a level 20 one.

Granted it still did close enough to 10% of the barbarians total hp which is nothing to sneeze at when you consider multiple enemies attacking. Fictionally this is still a painful blow.

>Alternatively have you tried not playing D&D?

>Actually is not magic, it still works on an antimagic field.
I was being vague for rhetorical effect.
think of it like Ki. sure he it doesn't say that he has Ki on his character page but a primal warrior who hones his body to past human limits clearly has form of natrual magic even if it's not arcane in nature.

>He can still jump again
yep and you're just a cunt.do you actively try to ruin campaigns and then say shit like "that the whole POINT of DnD?" DnD isn't a video game it's a shared narrative. if you try to do dumb shit like that to destroy that narrative just because your character sheet says you can you are just a cunt. I'd use a worse word if I had any at hand.

heres a cute girl. fuck you.

>In a bar fight IRL
>Don't want to kill
>Hit guy in face
>Turns out I bruised his brain and he dies in hospital 2 weeks later
Fucking jerks

>superiotity dice
>level 1
>have you tried not playing D&D meme despite meat points not just being a DnD problem

did the kids get off school or something? the thread was pretty decent until now.

moral of the story, never skip heel day.

Why wouldn't a person recover that stamina on his own? I'm not sure how many hit points folks heal on their own in 5e, but I think it used to be 1d2 per day. How fucking winded do you have to be to take a month to get your breath back? If a normal man can take maybe 4 or 5 hit points of damage before going down, and some of that represents stamina, then we're talking about maybe 2 or 3 actual meat points in there. Let's say that the high level character is 2 or 3 times that tough, giving him 6 meat points. That means that that the rest of his hit points -- the vast majority of them -- should be replenished quickly.

And while we're at it, why does a really fit, tough, high-level guy who is 50% winded take a bunch of healing to restore to full, while a weak, out of shape, low-level guy only takes one?

Was the Barbarian raging?
If so, you all hear a grunt as you watch the barbarian's head fly backward .
For a single heartbeat there is a weight in your chest as you hold your breath and state fixedly on the body of the barbarian rocked backwards by the blow.
With incredible speed a foot slides back and they have caught themselves.
Unable to turn away you fight the urge to blink as the head of the barbarian snaps up holding the bolt between his teeth, blood pouring from between grinning maw.
Guess who's got a new piecing?

I don't understand this lava meme.

Lava does anything between 6d10. (According to the dmg improvised damage on the latter)

An average human fighter with say a generous +3 from level 1 con bonus has 154 hp at level 20 barring feats etc.

So he's dead after 3 rounds or 18 seconds which for a character who at that level is effectively demigod like seems fair enough, or if anything pretty harsh.

In that time if we use the swim speed by raw he can yes swim 90 foot in lava if he dashes every round and he passes what should be a very hard athletics check each time. (DC 25 at least ) Though I'd argue swimming through lava is torturously difficult and say he can swim five foot per move , meaning in 3 rounds he'd manage 30 foot with dashes if he passed all of his athletics checks. Whilst still definitely in the realms of the physically impossible, again we're dealing with a demigod in a heroic fantasy game and even he'd succumb fast.

The ball falls two meters short of your foe, bouncing the ground once before going beneath his armpit. The extensive grazing in the arm draws some blood. The odd fighting stance he assumes afterwards clues you about ribs out of place. You can tell he won't survive another strike like this.

Does this works? And yes, cannonballs bounce in both ground and water.

>I don't understand this lava meme.
D&D in bad at portraying environmental damage - heat, drowning, falls, frostbites, etc. It's always either super lethal or laughably harmless. Swimming in lava is just one of the examples.

Its a drop in the bucket to the total hp, fall back on the rule of cool.
If you want them to earn it, roll a Acrobatics to catch themselves before they fall on their ass. (DC 15)
And if that dart is half as heavy as it looks and they were raging... maybe a STR save to beat 15 or loose a couple teeth

Bleh typing on my phone.

Lava deals anything between 6d10 and 10d10 damage meaning 60 damage per round on average for the latter based on the improvised damage rules in the dmg. So they're dead by round three if you're generous and deal the damage after they've acted.

>as no one saw this I'm posting it again.
No, people saw it, and ignored it.

>month to heal
what?
> I'm not sure how many hit points folks heal on their own in 5e
as many hit die as they have during as 10 minute short rest.in short if a barbarian is level 5 he can spend up to 5d12 to heal up just for sitting down for 10 minutes. a wizard has 5d6.

>high-level guy who is 50% winded take a bunch of healing to restore to full, while a weak, out of shape, low-level guy only takes one?
because stamina is a concept. it's just a justification. if a wizard heals him the spell can be negiligible while healing a level 2 rogue could be a full reguvinating experience. regardless how you'd fluff that is easy. while the barbarian is tired (24/120 hp) and rogue is mostly fine (12/16 hp) the rogue won't be able to keep up the fight for as long as the seasoned barbarian who can fight for a long time even when tired. the heal could boost him up a small amount compared to his max but obviously you'd just say something like "you feel the healing waves cover your body and you gain a new surge of energy" despite the heal probably only healing something like 6 hp while with the rogue it's something like "dispite your scratches you feel as if you're fresh and ready fight, like a new man. you feel your wounds slowly but surely closing up and you gain the confidence to keep fighting"

Yes but if you read my post you'd note it isn't. A level 20 fighter can survive a mere 3 rounds in lava which considering it's a heroic fantasy and a level 20 character is a demigod seems deadly enough to me.

Anything up to a level 7 fighter with a +3 con bonus by that same rule dies in one round on average, which again seems fitting enough as it's lava. It's only until level 13 that the fighter can survive two rounds.

>magic equips boosting his con past human limits.
You mean like the Barbarian capstone ability, that gives them +4 Strength and Constitution and increases their maximums by the same?

again this is a head shot.
but yes bouncing and slowing down is an excellent idea this plus this makes a great combo.

Damage or not, I'm amazed at him swimming in lava. That may be viscous, but it is still actual rock. You would need a lot of weight and strentgh to enter it in the first place.

youtube.com/watch?v=S22YZEJAXLE

Wait... Am I being what Veeky Forums calls autist right now?

yeah
I do mean that

>The dart is stuck in the barbarians head but it hasn't penetrated anything vital.
It's six inches deep in his brain... but he's a Barbarian, so yeah. Nothing vital.

yeah but if you read pretty much any other post in this thread you'd relise that the barbarian has 380 hp and is capable of have up to 420 hp at level 20 with feats so how do you explain that. you understand that we are trying to stop the "demigod" meme right?

no but you are forgeting that barbarians are usually pretty strong.

>again this is a head shot.
Fuck, forgot that.

>but yes bouncing and slowing down is an excellent idea
Thanks.

>24 str
>Superhumanly strong
>As strong as most dragons
He'll be fine

>but it's a headshot
>>can you headshot with a cannon?
>yes
Not unless you say it is: there are no called shots in 5e, even with Sharpshooter it's just a damage buff, you don't actually get to decide where you hit.

>A level 20 fighter
We were talkign about a 20th level barb that can survive a minute

It hits him in the head and bounces off, causing the barbarian to stagger back. His nose is broken and both his eyes are blacked from the impact, but he's still up.

Next turn.

>6d10
>3d10 to a bearb
>a 20th level bearb has on average 275.5 HPs
>3d10 deals 16.5
A 20th level barb can swim in lava 16 turns, 96 seconds, 1.5 minutes

Battlemaster.

>swallowing
"The monster tries to bite you, but you get your gauntleted fists up in time to keep its jaws from tearing off your face. The force of the bite is huge, however, and the strain causes you to buckle as the beast's mouth closes over top of you, and you begin to slide down its massive gullet."

>poison
"You rear back from the assassin's blade, reducing a deadly stab to a mere scrape that you barely even feel, a thin line of blood appearing on your cheek. You're feeling pretty confident until you notice the assassin's grin... just as your vision starts to go blurry."

just read sharpshooter again.
no idea where I got the headshot idea from.
I guess you could just add the 10 damage but then it raises the question "where is the 10 extra damage coming from?" heart is a good option. allows the whole hitting the chest thing which feels a lot better.

>The force of the bite is huge, however, and the strain causes you to buckle as the beast's mouth closes over top of you, and you begin to slide down its massive gullet."
user, stop!

barbs don't half fire damage.

What's that supposed to mean? There aren't any maneuvers that let you make a called shot.

Why are you talking about fighters? We're talking about barbarians.

>"where is the 10 extra damage coming from?" heart is a good option. allows the whole hitting the chest thing which feels a lot better.
If we're using abstract hit points, you can even just say that being so accurate means they have to expend even more effort to not die from the attack.

He said Bearb, as in a Bear Totem Barbarian. They halve everything but psychic while raging.

It's up to the GM to set how hard a DC is. We can say it's 25 meaning very hard which means even with a +11 from +6 prof and + 5 in str the fighters failing 70% of the time and when he succeeds moving a mere five foot which shows extreme effort to say the least.

A level 1 fighter granted would have a 5%(NAT 20) chance if we assume he has a +3 str and proficiency but he's already dead when he hits the lava anyway.

We can also outright say it's not possible and not allow a roll at all, or make it near impossible at DC 30 meaning that level 20 fighter would only have a 10% chance to succeed and it would be impossible for a level 1 fighter even on a nat 20.

There's also the fact that a level 20 character is by this point a demigod who goes toe to toe with other supernatural beings like dragons and storm giants because he's at their power level or higher. If you can conceptualise a giant or a dragon surviving in lava for a few seconds at least you can conceptualise a demigod level fighter (think Hercules, Achilles , Samson ) doing the same.

RTDM, senpai

>demigod
he said it again

lord please leave the thread.

hercules was human and could be killed, he won due to his super human strength and fighting prowess, achilles was human and could be killed, he wond due to his super human reflexes.

if you think either of them could take an arrow to the a javilin to the head and survive then you are an actual retard and you need to pick up the books you supposedly base your level 20 characters limitations on.

>one specific class, using one specific archetype at level 20 is 'unrealistically' good at one specific thing his class is designed to do (take damage) despite being a demigod by that level anyway. A

Yeah still don't see the issue

sorry famalam I didn't know bearb was a term. I thought it was a typo.

sad thing is I have a panda bearb DMPC in my campaign so I should have known this.

>Op mentions a barb
>People talk about the barb
>"well, but is just the barb"
Yeah, we're still talking about the 20th level barb, what? do you want to talk about something else? create a new thread then

Achilles literally could take a javelin to the head and survive

This has to be bait.

Hercules was the son of Zeus and the mortal Alcmene ergo a demigod.

Achilles mother was the water goddess Thetis and his father the mortal Peleus ergo he was a demigod.

Achilles was literally immortal by many accounts except for his famous heel and could exactly take arrows to the head and survive.

Hercules wrestled the three headed dog of the underworld to the ground and ignored a bite from its dragon head.

That's exactly a level 20 character.

and yet a poisoned arrow to the heel killed him.

>Panda
>DMPC
Run