/srg/ - Shadowrun General

>it's just a dead mineral scaffold that your body happens to hang on

Except that's wrong.

But that aside, I guess it'd once again be time for houseruling, since it's not that hard to give a more reasonable penalty for having titanium on your bones than plastic, aside from "Your soul likes plastic more".

>Except that's wrong.
it isn't
yes, the bone contains bone marrow, which is alive
but the calcium phosphate matrix, the hard part through which the material is put, is as dead as can be

Returns is alright. Dragonfall is great. Hong Kong is also great (Hong Kong generally plays better and is more polished mechanically, but the plot isn't quite as good as Dragonfall).

super warhawk or predator V?

Always Predator.

I didn't like Returns too much, but I thought Dragonfall and Hong Kong were great.

It's also never elaborated on why non-invasive exeskeletons aren't more popular in the Shadowrun universe. It's part of some high end military gear I think, but you'd assume it would be more common.

most likely developer decision
It's the same reason that Enchanting rules were terrible in every edition

Well obviously. They don't include them for the same reason they created essence in the first place.

It's just one of those extra layers of suspension of disbelief that crops up because of essence.

To be honest, most problems the sixth world has are by developer decision.

By the state of 4th editions technology they could have shot up a nanite colony, feed it with iron, aluminium and rubber and would have a fully functional orbital gardening station. All that with minimum risk to Metahumans and minimal costs, and boom, whichever corp does that can sell real food, without pesticides or pollution at afforable prices again.

@yekka

Hey, found a thing.

On Chummer 5a, cost calculation for Attack Dongles and Stealth Dongle (commlink accessories) seem to be off.

Source: pg 62, Data Trails

Calculation: Cost = Rating x 2 x 3,000¥

I'll post what the prices are supposed to be, and what're they're showing as.

Rating 1: 6,000¥ / 3,000¥
Rating 2: 12,000¥ / 12,000¥
Rating 3: 18,000¥ / 27,000¥
Rating 4: 24,000¥ / 48,000¥
Rating 5: 30,000¥ / 75,000¥
Rating 6: 36,000¥ / 108,000¥

>Calculation: Cost = Rating x 2 x 3,000¥
nope, Cost = Rating^2 x 3,000¥

I just realized the problem. Chummer is calculating it as "Cost = Rating x Rating x 3,000¥"

Thats not how you spell "Savalette Guardian"

you guys have any recommendations for get rich quick schemes in shadowrun? That doesn't involve killing anyone? Our team is in Cuba so I imagine there would be more opportunities than usual

My character is so nuyen hungry I need all the money I can get ;_;

Rating squared is correct

Very enjoyable games, probably got a few People into the PnP.

So my tabletop group got into them Harebrained's Shadowrun game and liked them, and are interested in running the shadows.

Is this 5E "Master Index Edition" the core book I want? DriveThruRPG doesn't seem to have other core for 5E.

Steal stuff and drop it no questions asked for Loyalty*5% with an appropriate contact.

So probably your fixer. And do things to get the fixer's loyalty up, or at least your negotiation pool up so that you can actually negotiate and eat some of the fee for having the fixer deal with the actual ownership changes while it's not in a faraday cage.

Hey, we too are in Cuba, havanna to be exact.

Piracy is some bid geal there, try to become some sort of Ares Cosair so KE won't coma after your butt while you plunder non Ares vessles.

Chummer, please read the third rule in the OP
All CGL books are in the OP Pastebin

Dang, I guess y'all are right. I thought they were viable but that would go against the dogma of CGL's Shadowrun. And Rating^2 looks like what they were attempting to do on the book - I guess they couldn't afford a font with a superscript for numbers.

Sounds like stealing is the way to go, Props to the piracy idea, I like it, now I just gotta figure out someone worth stealing from.

Aye, I got core 2nd printing downloaded but was wondering if this master index thing is just a fancy term for "3rd printing"

master index means it has an index referencing the other books (so you have a collective index for all books until then)

Right, I see. Thank you for answering

The Sleaze one is sorta viable, if the GM lets you put a hardwired Smoke-and-Mirrors and have it work as an odd mod. Even if you don't have the skills to hack worth beans, handing a few dongle-and-mod-commlinks out will keep your group stealthier than most tricks.

And it makes you harder to track than just about anything but parking your friends personae in the library host.

From my experences, I've come to this conclusion on other players.

>bro tier
Melee street sams
Adepts
Edgemonkey mundanes
Human faces
Riggers

>Legit and understandable tier
Bio adepts
Gun street sams
Other metavarient faces
Ally buff mage
Meme mages that only know appropiatly themed spells for their gimmick, like bee clouds for someone playing as Dr. Bees

>I hope the player knows what he's doing tier
Adept spell adepts
Mystic adepts

>stop wasting our time as a collective group tier
Deckers
Technomancers

>fag tier
Mage
Spirit Summoning Mage
Quickining Mage
Vampires
Pixies

No need to thank me, just doing my job.

>Not getting Bio-replacement legs
UNDERRATED RESPONSE TO LIMB LOSS.
If your mage has lost more limbs than 1 ess cost he needs to rethink his strategies.

I'm gonna make a BLOOD CRYSTAL SKELETON WIZARD and nobody can stop me!

>Rating melee higher than DAKKA

wew, don't cut yourself there

Also:
>mages
>not collectively trash

bleh

My dm needed me to play a decker. So I spent 550k on a deck and plan to as soon as possible be throwing three marks out with every action so I can make decking take just a little less time.
It 'only' took us two hours realtime to resolve our first matrix jaunt and both of us hadn't handle matrix stuff before.

In a world where everything is wireless Deckers/Technomancers are important, and they can be pretty fun …
If both the GM and player know their shit very well …
Which isn't the case very often.

I alternate between a Rigger and a Swiss Army Mage with spirits and buffs. Am I a bad person?

Do you use your powers solely for yourself?

Nope, I'll buff the team when possible. Give the gunners an aim boost, give the Face some Charisma juice, etc. Gonna pick up Increase Reflexes at the next opportunity.

I haven't actually gotten many opportunities to use or abuse summoning, so I need to start working into it as well.

Why would you ask a person shitposting on Veeky Forums that?

Decking is awfull and most faches macke better RL based hackers than decker.
Max out your CHA
Buy a radioshack deck together witht the programm that let's you change your icon.
Get a decent Computer skill (always usefull) around 8-12
Max out impersonate and negotiate/intimidate/con.

And now you just pretend that you work for GOD, are from the grid provider or are Jim from IT and have some bullshit reason that you need a Mark on the Host/Device to save the day.

Then you are A-OK
party on

Yeah but nobody in combat is going to give you a mark so you can turn off their gun.

Instead of actual hacking do some social engineering.
That's what makes TTRPGs great. You have near infinite ways to complete your mission.
But because you can do somewhat decking stuff without actual decking, and GMs and players are sad about matrix stuff being slow it gets totally skipped.

I combat it is easier to just shoot them, than to hack and turn off or dataspike their weapons.

My parents never gave me positive reinforcement when I was younger? I don't know user. People just do dumb stuff.

I've also briefly attempted a Pixie in a one-shot group that was meant to be incredibly over the top, and I can confirm that without homebrew rebalancing they're only for the worst kinds of players. You die in one hit to the flesh, but you can wear Full Combat Armor and dodge every shot taken at you, as well as maintain line of sight for spells by being able to literally fly.

I've made a BLOOD CRYSTAL SKELETON WIZARD and lemme just say: crystal spine, crystal legs, crystal arm and crystal eyes is a damn good waste of five essence for an aspected mage who follows a spooky skeleton mentor spirit and has mentor mask. I think this'll be a good antagonist

Omae I have 9 Attack on my deck I can dataspike their gun as hard as GOD can.
Which is still useless, Hence why I have a SMG and 10 dice to shoot with it so i can suppress!

When your combat approach ad decker is not just slaving everybodys gear to your high grade commlink and just shoot people alongside your sammy you are already a terrible decker and wasting everybodys time with clumsy rules.

So let's assume you are suprised by combat and compare it to the sammy.

So we cann well assume that you are suprised, because your physical attributes are in the gutter since you needed the money. But you may or may not be able to get your ass into cover and make the sammys job a little easier

The sammy draws his gun and probably starts shooting, since he knows what he is doing.

Now you can start looking for the attackers gear and god help you if they carry the same gear or you can't identify it on the first look, since matrix perception is RAW random among the things you used as your search criteria and "gun" will bring up a lot of things.

Now your Sammy killed the first guy

Aaaand now Sammy is shooting the second guy, since going into VR while in combat is a fucking terrible idea.

And by now the Sammy might have put his second guy into shock.

So let's assume your GM is kind enough or you are lucky enough to find the gun of somebody who isn't dead by now you can try to spike the gun. which never works in one go.

and the sammy keeps beign a usefull member of the party in combat while you try to be a little more usefull than last time.

Until, one day, you buy the arm of god, specialised skill wires and just shoot fuckers in the face while jacked up on cram.

I have been there, trust me i don't want it to happen to others.

>Instead of actual hacking do some social engineering.

that's what i said

Question
Why is the Decker in combat in this theoretical?
Why aren't they in the riggers van or something over-watching from the matrix already?

Because the bonus you get from direct hacking is way too good to pass it up.

And because the enemy might as well attack your van.

Or the Johnson want's to see the whole team before he gives the job.

suprise backstabbing ?

I just think it's way to optimistic to assume the best case.

If the GM is forcing you into firefights as a decker either the GM is bad or you were stupid for going out into the field and not sitting safe inside your riggers van 100m away like suggested.

Personal experience from my games (all one-shots, and they all have combat in them somewhere) is that deckers are shit in combat themselves but directly before, and directly after combat (sometimes during combat, too – but not with shooting) they are very important.
>Are there cameras around that might be capturing us? Shut them down.
>What is our way out? Through a locked gate? Hack it open.
>We are on a highway and the car of the people we just shot needs to move on, but we have no access. Hack some access.
>We are going to kick in the door of this place. Decker, can you see some guns? Yes, there's 4 guns with smartgun-capability. Be aware. I'll try my best hacking them BEFORE you kick in the door.

>Same effect can bre reached by adequate disguise, created by face or contact or spells.
>Basically everybody can be able to quickly open doors, by explosives, picking, social engineering or spells, my favourite are melt[lock] alchemical preperations.
>what ?
>really niche and if your GM let's you percept things based on their physical lockation (other than the within 100m yes/no range), he's already holding your hand. Guns are one of the most common things to be offline.

I think he meant sending a spoof command to the car after you frag the occupants. Or just turn on the gridguide.

I spent some time looking into a similar concept a while ago. If your character isn't watching their ESS then you get cyber replacements. Otherwise you wait a few months for cloned replacements. The only reasons to be missing a limb in SR are: personal/cultural, money (not a problem for long if you're a runner), and time (waiting for cloned replacements).

I mean there is a quality that shackles you to a wheelchair.

Yeah, you can do all these things with other characters too. But a decker is the swiss army knife of non-combat support, while the other guys are fighting.
>But nyee, why bother with a decker he should just play something different that's good with fighting.
Yes, please play your 932 charisma mage pixie or burnout way adept-street sam-cyberninja. You don't need any other roles.
Because who actually likes RP and interesting roles in a TTRPG. We're all just here for powergaming …
Worst thing is that 5e to some extent even rewards powergaming. And if you don't use all the splatbooks for the wackiest combinations you're basically shit.

Is it just impossible to make a good Matrix system that also doesn't feel like it belongs in tech of pre 2008?

Because no one ever seems happy with the Matrix system.

>Because who actually likes RP and interesting roles in a TTRPG. We're all just here for powergaming …

Those aren't mutually exclusive, desu.
Anyways, Decking in Combat is mostly useless, if the GM doesn't provide him with interesting Targets to hack (read: Environment modifiers).
Can't be helped, a pure sammy will also be dead weight on many social occasions.

What's a fun and/or good build for Hong Kong, want to play it again and haven't since it came out.

shockfist troll adept
34 crit with -8 ap
punch the world

Not impossible, but very hard with CGL's particular brand of embezzlement and haemorrhaging better writers. Then you have stuff like 5e Infected, which shows some people are trying to improve the game, and 5e AI PCs, which shows that others are trying really hard to shit on already bad rules (or worse, so inept that their 'also trying to help' is actively making things worse).

If powergaming boils the game down to
>932 charisma mage pixie
or
>burnout way adept-street sam-cyberninja
interesting character concepts are left out. The game becomes just two roles because anything else is shit.

And when it comes to this you should seriously be wondering: Why am I even bothering playing a game that gives me so many choices to create my character, when all but two (and don't tell me: "Oh, but there's still choice! You can switch your Americar for a Harley-Davidson") builds are useless.

Also removes moments where players can feel cool because they had a role that fit the job exactly. If you're playing with more that 2 guys it'll eventually become a: Yeah, you're useless. We can do everything with 2 people too.

But I mean yeah, there's still RP. But you could just as well be RPing around a ludo game … It even offers 4 colors instead of 2 roles.
Think of some backstory for your meeples. RP out how they move around …

Supposedly AIs were originally much better but the writer got some feedback that they were too powerful, so he pared them back down to where they are now. Same sort of problem little mac had with drakes I guess, don't want your first crunch to be terribly imbalanced so you wind up erring too far on the side of caution.

Anyway, AIs are supposed to be getting errata for them at some point to make them a much less agonising build, but given the current progress of the errata team we're likely to see SR6 before that happens.

A mage missing an arm or two could easily Quicken a cast of Magic Fingers if they have the metamagic and the karma. Only downside is I'm pretty sure having a quickened spell removes any trace of Astral stealth you had

Blood crystal arm
Plus you can turn it into an arm sword

>But can someone explain to me how changing the material of what you are coating your bones with change the essence cost?

Here's an explanation from a long time ago back when FASA was still around and they were working on Earthdawn.

>We all carry a metaphysical blueprint, an aural template, conceived with our physical selves and borne until our deaths. This template represents not only who we are, but what we might have been had our bodies and spirits developed unhampered from birth. This aural template, our essence, also connects us to the mystical world. For most people, essence envelops and sustains them throughout life, but they derive no other power from it. For a magician, the aural template serves as the circuitry through which magical power flows. It connects the inner world with the outer in a direct, observable, tangible way.

>In the past, metaphysicists have warned of the associative damage done to the aural template through the implantation of cybernetics or bioware. Though such warnings have validity, we believe the reasoning behind them to be inaccurate.

>Rather than damaging the aural template, the associative damage done by cyber- and bioware and the resultant loss in magical potency results from the deviation between an individual's aural template and his body. In effect, the implantation of artificial enhancements creates a new body, or physical template, that differs from the aural template. The greater the deviation, the less efficient the transfer of mana from the aural to the physical becomes.

That's it. It all has to do with magic.

I'm not even talking on a matter of power scale. The rules for AIs just suck ass. GMs will straight up say, "Nah, too fiddly. Ain't nobody got time for that." If they were just too weak, or too powerful, you could work around it. I don't expect the errata team to fix AIs. Maybe fix some small part of AIs that doesn't work, but overall it's going to continue to suck ass.

How big is your penis?

>shipping plants/produce to and from space
>reasonable cost

Pick one

As he watched the GM break out his homemade hit location tables, Harry knew he was in trouble

>if
Never seen it

They were building orbital stations and using nanites back in 3e. Ares had a plan for it, and SK managed to get it finalised and in orbit first. Whichever Ares CEO took it personally.

>As he watched the GM break out his homemade hit location tables, Harry knew he was in trouble

>tfw you're GMing soon.
>tfw when you're whipping out a homemade Hit Location table for the first time.

Am I just instilling terror in my players?

>The game becomes just two roles because anything else is shit.
It's not that only two builds are useful
just that deckers are shit
(to use your analogy, deckers are trabants)

youtube.com/watch?v=ugrFTySNeQk
Post some music that could be shadowrun related
Hardmode: No GITS

youtube.com/watch?v=Uk3n-CkQao8
In 2070 or so...

> trabant is shit
U wot tavarish? Trabants are immortal!
And our decker was legit the MVP of last session.

youtu.be/NVqVwk0rJ64

youtu.be/P_SlAzsXa7E

Hey I posted that last time we did this!
THIEF!

youtu.be/SDTZ7iX4vTQ
Hah you didn't say Hardmode: No school shootings

youtu.be/vqGIKlgSl1s

Skillwirestapes!

youtu.be/-nC5TBv3sfU?list=RDMMbZwG2pjzUAo

I have some terrible luck getting into long lasting shadowrun games, usualy just one shots and such. Did have one time though...

4th ed. My Hacker. Corp Spider who lost his ID in the second crash, was online when it happened, came out a little unhinged. Paranoid as fuck. Lives in his Van, won't park in the same sq km twice. Dude sitting next to me at the table saw my char sheet, looked at my edge stat and exlamed "SWORDS DON'T HAVE THAT MUCH EDGE!"

I honestly forget WHY I was at some some mid level managers house in the suberbs...needed to do some legwork for something...

But the data I'm hoping to get out of his personal files is already in the hands of the hacker that's there. I try firing my attack prog, bounces right off him. He lands a trace on me, which doesn't fucking matter because I'm literally outside the dudes house in my van. I'm just going to drive away. I look around the node. "There ICE here?"

"yeah. But he's already crashed it all."

"Ok. I hack a new admin account. Log In using that, and reboot the system"

All the ice gets reloaded, and he logs the fuck off. Then I go to start my Van. That time he spent dicking around not attacking me was running was him telling his buddy to deal with me. He was outside in his own van... with backup. I wasn't expecting any trouble so I went alone.

Not sure why they went with explosive under my van instead of shoot me... the plan WAS to get armor and a minigun with an SK to run it that would flip out of a side panel all Ninja Turtle Van style, but I wasn't there yet.

Anyway, edge burned, van lost, and I got thrown clear of the blast and blacked out in the gutter, where Doc Wagon picked me up.

youtube.com/watch?v=0jut0-_tMN4
>if your nova coked up black magic mage ganger doesn't go to sleep to this you should reconsider your life

youtube.com/watch?v=6nhjZhyzW2g
>if your stoner decker isn't defacing megacorps servers with this you should reconsider your life

youtube.com/watch?v=OgEeljQfL8M
>if your norse street sam isn't pumping this at ear splitting levels in the middle of cutting down a saliryman in lobby of a mega corps you should reconsider your life

youtube.com/watch?v=9WOKk1i_eL8
>if your failed japanese idol face adept isn't singing karaoke her way into the heart and access roster of a VIP of a place you're team is getting ready to burgle you should reconsider your life

youtube.com/watch?v=H8w_Q57RQJc
youtube.com/watch?v=j94s8VeXBig&t
youtube.com/watch?v=ldwg3eXiISM
youtube.com/watch?v=-O3cZ3M4hAo
youtube.com/watch?v=MCs_1EFmjkg
>if none of these speak to you well you can probably guess what you should do

man, vallhalla was such a bait and switch for me.
Here I'm expecting cyber bartender managing action, and instead I get a thick meaty slice of cyberpunk visual novel.

It was nice, but man I want my cyber-bar sim.

Finally someone who understands me.
Deckers have times they don't shine in. Like combat. But when they're in their element, oh boy!

>But when they're in their element, oh boy!
Yeah! Then the rest can go play Guitar Hero!

Chummer i said exactly 2 things.

>Decking is fucking awfull

>You should be able to keep yourself afloat in any situation.

RAW decking might be an interesting charackter concept but if your concept breaks the flow of the game for the rest, since one of your turn takes 1-10 minutes it's time to go into yourself and think "maybe it's not okay if I'm blocking others".

>a pure sammy will also be dead weight on many social occasions.
A pure sammy that can't lie his way out of a paperbag is dead weight and makes the face's job unecessary harder,
Just as much as a decker who can't shoot/stab a motherfucker is just a nerd who makes the sammys job needlessly harder.
Just as a Face/Sammy without a minium computer skill are dead weight to the decker because you just become the IT bitch.

Specalised roles don't mean that you can go and ignore evereything else like a min-maxer.

Honestly ? i can pick poth if i have the technology to have microspcopic robots build anything i want and spirits & magic who can assist rockets in their in-atmosphere (the most fuel consuming) stage.

Today i can buy products from across the globe in my stuffershack equivalent and that is the norm in most western countries.

Shadowrun needs someone who can think forward techwise in novel but balanced ways. Reading back through 3e, it seems like they've been mostly resting reinventing the wheel for the past two editions, if not further, with a few added details.

Returns was rather linear but a nice introduction to the setting. When I first played it I loved it but playing it a second time is abit dull.
I never finished Dragonfall after two attempts, it was good, I enjoyed it. All the Party members were enjoyable. The directors cut adds some nice polish.

I liked Hong Kongs apperance, now Orks weren't giants like Trolls, but how I preferre them as just humans with tusks that are naturally bulkier. Hated Is0bel as a companion though, an autstic dwarf decker who I ignored whenever I could. Apparently I missed that every vendor has a personal quest if you talk to them, but I only ever spoke to the vendor who sold my Street Sam guns.