D&D 5e X MtG:PS

Color works better than alignments in general I find, especially because they're not diametrically opposed as much. Trying to match them up to the grid kind of works, but only in the sense that White is more Lawful and Red is more Chaotic, but even that isn't a hard and fast rule.

I think he's saying why not use older, more interesting planes.

If you were going to use any of these planeshifts anyway, I would expect to be running it in the past before they showed up. I mean, currently Amonkhet has 4/5 gods dead and everything going to absolute shit, but the rules given apply better to the world as it might have been a century ago, where the trials are still in full swing.

The reason the rules are for the new planes is obviously because they're trying to promote the current set. You won't see a planeshift for anything older unless it gets a return block, or at least some release involving it.

Watch out sempai, your precious planes are next

Because planeshifts are tied to set releases so far, and also there really arent that many planes within the current pantheon of them that they actively still acknowledge. This is a pretty good chunk of them. We should get Plane Shift Dominaria when that releases, though who knows what state that world will be in since theyve found a way to give it a "cohesive identity". Im okay with that but I know a lot of people will not be so.

Aren't a lot of these just planes the ones from Origins? The ones the gatewatch are from or planeswalked too?

That could explain why they listed most of them.

That aside, a lot of them also don't need Planeshift rules.

Those planes are most of the ones they still support. And really there arent that many planes throught magics history to begin with even ignoring the ones theyd rather us ignore like Rabiah or Ulgrotha and the dead ones like Serra's Realm and Mirrodin

The very end of this most recent plane shift is concerning though. Although Wyatt likes to make these while setting up their corresponding art books, he ended Amonkhet as though he was done with this stuff.

>You could do a lot of adventuring on just the four planes detailed in the art books and Plane Shift articles so far. But if you want to take your Planeswalker characters to Theros, Tarkir, Ravnica, Dominaria, Mirrodin, Alara, Fiora, Lorwyn, Kamigawa, or any other plane in the Magic Multiverse, you can follow the example of what I’ve been doing in these articles. Reskin and
tweak existing monsters, and inject a healthy dose of creativity and improvisation as you go. Some of those worlds are full of creatures that could have stepped right out of the Monster Manual, while others will present a greater challenge.

Sounds like "make your own guys, pce out"

Yeah. The main big ones I think they skipped over in that list would be Lorwyn and Kamigawa, but I think from the current design perspectives they would rather people forget about how cool those planes were for some reason.

I thought that too, but he said something tht implied that he thought now was a good time to acknowledge walkers, which would incorporate a desire for lots of planes at once, and since we only get new planes on set release, I think he just wanted to say we dont need to wait dor the plane shifts to use planes. I feel like he would have just said no more plane shifts if that were the case. But maybe not.

Lorwyn and Kamigawa are in kind of a weird spot where theres almost no hope for a return in an expert set but they do still acknowledge those planes as ones that are out there. Kamigawa quite often nowadays. Lorwyn less so but its still out there in the current canon because of Origins.

What racial options would you hope to see made playable humans need not apply from:

>Dominaria
>Mirrodin
>Ravnica
>Lorwyn
>Kamigawa

Hard mode: You only get 5 races per plane

Yeah, pretty much. After what I saw from Origins though I'm kind of glad we won't see a return, since I feel like they'd just ruin it.

I'm fine with the occasional nod to them still existing at least.

But thats wrong user, amonkhet is ruled by bolas and he defeats the gatewatch there (at least for the short term)

Ravnica mainly needs to account for Veldalken, since I think most of the other races were covered by Zendikar fairly well. Maybe Centaurs? Ravnica has a lot of different races running around.

Lorwyn itself only really needs to take care of Flamekin, and maybe clarify that their merfolk can't move on land and Kithkin have their slight empathy. Shadowmoor is where it would get complicated.

Kamigawa basically needs all of them, foxes, snakes, moonfolk, ratfolk, the works.

Well yeah, it's basically implied that since Ixalan and Tomb of Annihilation will be launching close together. All they need is a legendary lich and its done

That's...that's not how canon works. They said "sure, why not, if it works for your campaign". That's not the same thing as saying that it's a canon fact.

I mean, if it works for your campaign you could have Baldur's Gate transform into a spaceship and fly to Selûne, but that doesn't make it canon.

>you could have Baldur's Gate transform into a spaceship and fly to Selûne, but that doesn't make it canon.

If you just make it up without authority, obviously it's not cannon. The difference here is that these plane shift expansions are supported by the mothership. Their claim that these universes are tied together is published by WotC now. They have the highest authority

But they didn't claim that the universes are tied together. They said "sure, if that's your thing." But D&D says that about literally everything.

No, they literally said 'if it works for your campaign'. That's not stating canon, that's stating that you can use the material in that way if you like.

It'd be the same as saying 'Sure, you can have the Sorcerer Kings from Dark Sun show up in Amonkhet, if it works for your campaign'. That's not saying that the sorcerer kings are capable of that normally or that they're a canon fact in the multiverse, but rather that it's an idea you can use if you want.

Veldalken are covered by Kaladesh.

I haven't tested the Vedalken out yet, but don't they seem underdeveloped compared to everything else Kaladesh has to offer?

From a quick glance they don't seem that great. Their only major bonus is advantage on Int/Cha/Wis saves like what Gnomes get.

Plus it doesn't cover the 4 armed versions that crop up from time to time. It would have been neat if they had 4 hands for the purposes of them counting as free or occupied, but not give them any sort of extra attacks or ways to use two-handed weapons with them, since they are supposed to be mages primarily.

It'd be cool to me to play a kaladesh campaign, but I've never played dnd. the mechanics seem pretty interesting.

>Hawk aven
HOLY SHIT THATS BROKEN!

I'm running an Aetherborn in a game right now, completely divorced from MtG. They didn't really account for any of their issues with not eating/breathing/sleeping in the rules text, but they're pretty fun so far.

>V. human
V human tier
>Ibris Aven
Meh
>Hawk Aven
OP
>Jackal
Meh
>Minotaur
Better than halforks
>Naga
Natural weapons OP

I was thinking the same thing, I'd be stoked to play a fourarmed vedalken.

I don't think there's ever been a precedent for a fourarmed playable race yet - they'd be an iconic mainstay so long as they incorporate those extra limbs proper

Also all that heavy armor in domains? does heavy armor exist in Amonkhet?

Would Gideon of the Trials's armor count as heavy?

How the heck did you justify Aetherborn flavorwise considering they're the byproduct of kaladesh's aether manufacturing process

>hawk aven sending arrows into orbit
>there's still room for class options, feats, and magical buffs to make this a reality

Yeah, I actually don't think they would have to change too much. Just add a line that the Velkdalken suffers the disadvantage for using a heavy weapon like a small race if they wield one while also using another weapon or a shield.

Even then, I'm not sure there would be that much abuse with it if you just gave them 4 functional arms and allowed 2handers normally. They're still an Int Wis race, so the best you can do is use a greatsword and a shield to try and make up for your lack of strength and dexterity. It might make a Veldalken fighter or Barbarian too strong at later levels though.

Either way, the ability to simply hold a wand while also having a sword, a torch, and a free hand for any other items you need to use fits them quite well and would be a nice additional benefit alongside their others.

>+2 to Dex/ +2 to Wis
>And flight

Not I'm wondering the same thing. Their origin story really tied them up thematically (unfortunately)

We're running a science fantasy post-apocalyptic dungeon crawl, ran by our GM who basically subsists on nothing but puns and bullshit. I figured we could fluff them as magical radiation byproduct creatures from the nuclear spacemagic wars.

We spent the last session fighting a robot combat suit piloted by about 30 spiders, so I think it fits tonally.

I mean I guess you could just say whatever other setting they're using has a natural process that produces Aetherborn, you can make up whatever I guess, just I kind of asked purely out of curiosity or whether or not it was just for fun.

In all honestly though, we were still barely with a setting when we made characters. the DM just said "pick one, we'll fluff it from there" so our party is two Aarakocra, some kind of stone giantkin thing, a couple humans, and myself.

I figure it'd be pretty easy to justify, having them be the products or byproducts of rituals involving pure magical energy, or perhaps something that occurs more naturally.

As long as you have any sort of more neutral magical energy it'd be pretty easy to say it's an elemental being of that energy, whether negative, positive, or whatever.

>Velkdalken suffers the disadvantage for using a heavy weapon like a small race if they wield one while also using another weapon or a shield
>the ability to simply hold a wand while also having a sword, a torch, and a free hand for any other items
Not bad, I like it.

How about a variant that plays with the INT/WIS/CHA by giving the Vedalken the warcaster feat to start? They got four arms and a computer brain to multitask

Never thought of it that way, but that makes a lot of sense to treat them as weirdo, sapient elementals; making them a cross-setting posibility

I feel like the Warcaster feat would have to be in place of the Save bonuses, and then it'd feel a bit odd.

Better to make them naturally more adept at resisting those sorts of mental spell effects. Training to better use those four arms for martial combat or defending themselves while spellcasting is something that really should come with their class and feats.

By default, a Veldalken with 4 arms would have an advantage in regards to knowledge, resisting mental based spells, and being able to have the convenience of extra hands. One could write in a book while holding a candle to see in the dark while drinking some tea, for example.

To add onto that, they'd need combat training to use their arms to make use of weapons effectively. A level in fighter suddenly means that they could have a shield on one arm, a pair of shortswords to fight with two weapons, and a javelin for range. Or they use a bow while having a blade and shield at the ready.

Really the tricky bit is accounting for just how many tricks you could pull off in terms of versatility by holding 4 different weapons. The only thing holding it back is the fact that they get no Dex or Strength bonus.

What if you were to apply a racial disadvantage of a dominant hand? That way it would nerf the physical combat prowess of four arms while still being functional for roleplaying and menial tasks like reaching into a component pouch or manipulating 4 objects at once (i.e. your bonus action shenanigans).

Four armed races are going to end up being addressed eventually if they keep these plane shift expansions running.

5e Lore really is an unforgivable shitshow isn't it?
The fucking Elder evils were already oversatured with the Lovecraftian Pantheon, the Elder Evils of Elder Evils, the Mooncalf Elder Evils, the fucking Fogotten realms Faerun's Angry doggo, !notslaanesh elf eater and that one other thing, then we have the Aboleth mother, Thoon, Tharizdun, and a few fucking more they added in 4e via astromony, and now the fucking Eldrazi.

Fuck 5e, and fuck it's writers for sucking so hard that they can't make it interesting that they had to resort to a gimmick like this.

Eldritch horrors being worshipped has a long pedigree in D&D.
I'd say some beings (Bloopdoolpoolp for instance) may be better treated as them, instead of as deities.

Also the Elder Evils of the Aboleth are neat.

>late 2000's were filled with vampire fantasy
>huge backlash aftermath
>early 2010's were filled with zombie fantasy
>huge backlash aftermath
>late 2010's are filled with lovecraftian fantasy
>huge backlash aftermath?

I feel ya, give it another few years for the inevitable revolt against the lovecraftian garbage and you'll find solace once again

Why didn't the gods get a statline?

They don't really operate like the normal DND pantheon so I assumed they would be made creatures.

...

That's a possibility, though looking it over I think the major advantage that stands out is that 4 arms allows a Veldalkan to use a shield in addition to any other fighting style. They'd have a bit of an easier time swapping between bows, 2handers, and twin blades than other characters, but the real advantage is being able to use a shield alongside those styles.

From that, I could say all you'd have to do is give them disadvantage on attacks with 2handed weapons and two-weapon fighting attacks while wielding a shield. Giving a fluff reason for it would be tricky, but that neatly solves the main problem while still not entirely removing the benefits.

A real pity we won't see Planeshift Theros, New Phyrexia, or Ravnica.

I'm like 90% certain we already have a Ravnica in the pipeline already. Theros and New Phyrexia have plot threads they have to address eventually as well. I don't believe we have any reason to believe we'll stop getting Plane Shifts by the time we get Ravnica

I can't wait to see how the Ravnican guilds translate into d&d. I've been trying to find a way to organically translate them into the 5e system forever now.

I'm not sure the planeshift stuff will help with that too much. It's usually just stats for races and then roleplaying stuff about what is or isn't allowed.

For Ravnica, the key thing to remember is that actual Guildmages and spellcasters tend to be pretty high ranking, and most people on the plane aren't actually members of a guild. Outside of that, it basically boils down to deciding if any given spell fits under one of the associated guild colors or not.

Then would Ravnica work best as a low-magic modern fantasy setting?

It has that leaning to be certain. While mages themselves are more rare and aren't spectacularly powerful, they do a lot of work for the guilds and the guilds themselves do a lot of things for the plane as a whole.

More minor magic might be more commonplace, but generally it is going to be a fairly typical metropolis, just with some more fantastical elements in place of technology.

Actually I think the spellcaster thing is wrong. I feel pretty certain Ravnica has a rather large ratio of magic to non magic users relatively speaking. I always got the impression magic was a part of daily life there. He is correct that most of Ravnica is in fact gateless and unassociated with any guild, and guildmages are generally high ranking.

Playing as upstanding citizens sounds like a fun time, especially if you can pull it off with a hellboy atmosphere.

It's gotta be weird to do a class progression system based on the core 5e classes if everyone is a specialized worker-body with guild-tied magical training

I think I phrased it a bit poorly. Guildmages are rare, but part of that rarity is a factor of being high ranking guild members, but the reason for that is them being so adept at using two different colors of magic together so well.

Outside of them, you might have mages that are only skilled in one color, but are less high ranking, and just general hedge mages that know a few cantrips or basic spells, which should be a lot more populous. Magic Initiate as a feat would probably be fairly common and more widely available.

I would say it's less low magic as much as it is low power. Magic is fairly common, but it's very rarely the sort that can destroy entire armies. In D&D terms, most people are going to be stuck with lower level spells in most cases, but also due to the way spells in MTG work they'll also be able to use them more often.

Thanks
>Pic of what I was hoping the walker from Amonkhet would look like.

The class system would have to be an actual sociological class system then. You could run a powered campaign with high ranking denizens, or maybe play a campaign as the proletariat class.

Adding on to Don't get too hung up on what the averages are.

By level 10, a Wizard player would easily start outstripping what most guildmages can do. But, by the same token, a level 10 Wizard is no longer a generic guildmage, but instead is one of the legendary figures on the plane. They're the people in the running as maze runners, head researchers, top officials of entire precincts, and generally just being on par with the named characters those guilds have at their disposal.

I think the only tricky part with using classes is more the fact that the spell lists won't usually line up with what a particular guild or color does. A Bard flavorwise is a good fit for Rakdos, but their spell list is more Blue/White with the focus on healing and mind control, for example.

Still, you could make it work. It just might require a few overhauls in the spell list department. It's the sort of thing that might be easier to work with your players on a case by case basis. If somebody does want to play a Rakdos Bard, then you do just need to go over their character with them, decide which spells would fit their concept, and possibly offer them some new options more befitting a fiend warlock if they're lacking.

With backgrounds being the progression system. Or a "job" system

That'd be a way to handle it. Apprentice levels you'd probably be gateless nobodies who might occasionally run into the guilds, or cannon fodder for one of the more populous guilds like Boros or Selesnya. By level 5 though, I'd expect to be picked up by a guild or heavily contracted by them, since by then you're a very skilled artisan, spell-caster, or combatant that they wouldn't want working for their enemies. Then you steadily rise through the ranks with your talents, until you're a top tier guild member second only to the dragons, demons, and other powerful immortals that actually run the guilds.

>>Pic of what I was hoping the walker from Amonkhet would look like.

>There are twelve vampire families on Innistrad
>literally only one of the family heads has been depicted on a card
Where the fuck are my Edgar and Runo commanders, Wizards?

My problem here is trying to let my players have the option to join multiple guilds, but still have a reason to work together as an adventuring party through the metropolis (avoiding the shadowrun trope of "everything is a heist").

It would be easy to have a party of boros recruits, or gruul vandals. But having that multidisciplinary party from different guilds gets complicated.

There were 12 progenitors that participated in Edgar's ritual, theres fewer active families now, like 5 or something. Stromkirk, Fakenrath, markov, voldaren...? I dont think we even learned the Falkenrath progenitor's name until SOI.

I find it can be justified as long as all of the guilds involved share a color with Azorius. Granted, at that point, you're kind of restricted in that it would need to be crime investigation, but it could still work to a degree.

>markov
Are we sure they're still around?

From the artbook:

Not all vampires are created equal. Among the existing vampiric bloodlines, some are more common but prestigious whereas some are rare but less respected. There were originally twelve bloodlines, which originated long ago in a ritual that had something to do with the Markov progenitor, Edgar Markov. Three of these bloodlines have died out completely. Five others are relatively minor, having sired fewer vampires. Each bloodline has a special affinity to certain abilities innate to the vampiric form.

The four major bloodlines that remain are:

Falkenrath
Markov
Stromkirk
Voldaren

The Falkenrath and Stromkirk largely fell victim to Emrakul's corruption. The Markov suffered great losses when the lithomancer Nahiri destroyed Markov Manor, trapping its inhabitants in stone.

Two of the remaining five minor bloodlines are:

Dusken, a nearly extinguished bloodline that were rivals to the Maurers
Maurer, founded by Strefan Maurer and fairly centered around Strefan's domain in Stensia’s outland valleys.

So does anyone have like a lost of elder evils as most dnd wikis are incomplete as shit.

that too would have been fine

It's almost as though its 10 different sub-genres if you were to run a campaign on Ravnica. Just decide ahead of time for a guild to play as, and bam, there's the adventure genre for the campaign

There are other existing Matkov vampires, yes. And iirc we dont know if Edgar was killed when Nahiri destroyed markov manor.

I didnt know about Dusken, dont think i saw that on a card. Did know about Strefan Maurer though

Do you physically own the artbook? Is it mostly focused on eldrazi or innistrad?

I've been considering collecting all of them as they come out in fear of them never being in print again, but so far I only own Kaladesh and been thinking about making the plunge

Not really what I meant. As I said, you could make a party of everyone sharing a color with Azorius. Reasons being

Azorius - Specialized law enforcement
Boros - General law enforcement
Selesnya - Tertiary militia by the guild charter
Izzet - Research specialists in all things arcane
Simic - Research specialists in biological studies
Orzhov - Tend to have lawyers and special interests of their own, might bribe a member in
Dimir - Doesn't exist, so can by a sleeper agent of sorts

With that you have plenty of options for your typical crime drama investigation squad, obviously leaning in a few different directions depending on the exact composition and setup.

Only ones that are hard to justify alongside those are Gruul, Golgari, and Rakdos, but honestly those are hard to justify working with almost anyone for an extended period.

If its anything like the Zendikar one, its mostly about Innistrad. The eldrazi are just one chapter of that world. Dont know why it would "focus" on them. Theres too much other stuff about Innistrad for them to "focus on the eldrazi".

What I want to know is if the artbook actually explains what the fuck causes lycanthropy. The original planeswalker's guide was super coy about it.

Now they can be your PCs.

I have a copy, it's not bad. I like the insights they put into the more civilian side of innistrad, and it's got some good stuff in there, even with the Eldrazi. Lots for cool things that happened offscreen like Rem Karlous or the Thing in the Cavern. That said, I'm still super duper mad they used the shitty picture of Griselbrand.

Isn't Innistradi lycanthropy caused by people being possessed by wild nature spirits? They explain it's why areas with higher levels of deforestation tend to produce more werewolves.

I noticed in the Kaladesh book that they didn't include all the art either. They missed out on printing images of some of the masterpieces and not all the constructs showed up.

What price did you get the innistrad book for?

What I actually meant is how its contracted. The original planeswalker's guide suggests that its transfered with bites but kinda hints that its actually a mental suggestion thing more than actually transmitting it.

How hard would it be to scan them?

Also I found this weird because they go into pretty big detail about how vampires make other vampires.

Jesus, that's vague as fuck

Yeah, they missed out on some, which I was disappointed in, but I liked the little sub-section where they set it up like a proper art book with artist blurbs for the masterpieces.

I got it for like 20 bucks, but that was because I got it at my LGS during their 36th anniversary, where they had a d20 you could roll to determine how much percent off you got on your purchase, with a crit being 36%. I rolled a 20.

Well, the GOO category really covers a wide range of beings, including:
Elder Evils Elder Evils (Atropus, Father Llymic, the Hulks of Zoretha, the Leviathan, Pandorym, Ragnorra, Sertrous, the Worm that Walks, Zargon), the Aboleth Elder Evils (Bolothamogg, Holashner, Piscaethces, Shothotugg, Y'chak), other minors (Shothragot, Zurguth, Haask), the 4e Stars (so many), and the FR Elder Eternal Evils (Dendar, Kezef, Ityak-Ortheel) and assorted FR beings (Moandar, Ghaunadaur, Tyranthraxus)

I was pretty sure that the bite didn't actually mean shit, and that it was something to do with the plane's natural mana and the moon's crazy bullshit.

Thri-kreen?