What went wrong?

Well that put me in my place. I knew he was the unsung hero of many a long siege but I had no idea he had to eat his own shit all the time. I stand corrected. No one understood Pert's struggle.

Uhh, uhhh gee I don't know Pert, uh, d-don't Astartes have like, a special pineal gland inside their brain, so that they can all you know, work and fight without sleep for weeks at a time? I-I know i've got one. I think we all do, Pert. And and i've got the poop filter in my armor too, it comes standard, I think. S-so that sounds really rough Pert, but, y'know, there's a war on and I just think everyone has it rough. A-and you know you shouldn't let Rogal Dorn get to you, because he's just, he uh, he just doesn't know how to talk to people Pert, and that makes him seem, I don't know, more hostile than he actually is, okay.

I actually think Pert is more complex than just being a monster at his core. On his home planet he overthrew his tyrant adotive father and tried to create a world of peace. Then the big emps shows up, and thrusts him into a galaxy where no matter you go, ther eis war. Pert saw what he needed to be to aid the emperor in his goal of uniting the galaxy under man. A warlord, a tyrant. He was what he needed to be. Perturabo is cold and calculating, and saw what he believed needed to be done and got it done, efficiently and quickly. Deep down, Perturabo would love nothing more than to be a statesman like Guilliman set out to be. But that's not the tool the emperor needed.
People often compare Pert and Dorn, and this is apt. Both were willing to set themselves to difficult tasks and be whatever tool the emperor needed them to be. This brought them both to the meat grinder that is Siege warfare. They were both adept at cracking the tough nuts. And building their own. Both became renowned for their mastery of siegecraft, but this is where Pert begins to go into a spiral.
In the Siege there are few his equal, and he wants to be seen, and respected for that, to be given the honors he rightfully deserves, yet everywhere ehe looks he finds himself dealing with The rivalry of The Imperial Fists, who on some joint battles, are given the seeming credit for the victory, one painting described in the books features the Imperial Fists and Iron Warriors breaking a siege, but has the Iron Warriors scraping in the mud while the Fists are riding gloriously overtop of them. That and Dorn saying that Ol' Pert couldn't defeat a fortification designed by Dorn were the nails in the coffin. (Pert not knowing that Dorn would also be of the opinion that he could not penetrate a fortress designed by Pert either. Dorn is bad with the whole words thing.)

Pert felt snubbed and unappreciated for that which he was most proud o, his ability to construct.

And this turned into resentment for Dorn, the Emperor, and most of his Brothers. Meanwhile all the Brothers he even remotely liked, or used to like (looking at Magnus here) started turning to chaos. So he jumped too.

He is essentially the main character from Office Space. As for the other shit he did like wipe out Olympia, dude had a lot of other issues, but those are the ones I can think of for him falling to chaos.

>he overthrew his tyrant adotive father
No he didn't.

The old tyrant explicitly reigned long into the Crusade, and Pert never overthrew him. The guy died of old age.

>grow up on a planet made up of city states constantly at war with each other
>Perturabo wants peace and order, all the while striving to better the life of all the inhabitants of the planets with his inventions
>feels like nobody on Olympia is on his level (nobody is) and grows distant because of frustration
>accepts to be used by his adootive father to conquer the whole planet because he thinks the planet will finally know peace under a unified rule
>hates the lavish lifestyle of the nobility, deems it a waste of resources, would rather feed the poor than have banquets
>slowly grows bitter over the course of the wars
>glimmer of hope when he finally colonised all of Olympia and made it into the world he dreamt of
>surprise ! Emps shows up and tells him that he's not done and he's got more wars to wage
>bitterness ensues
>acute autism and stubbornness have him execute every order to the letter with maximum prejudice to everyone because of his frustration
>slowly devolves into a crazed warlord that takes pride in acting like a monster
>temper grows ever shorter
>after spending years entrenched in an unwinnable conflict against time-warping aliens, gets word that Olympia rebelled and is back to its old ways of infighting
>loses his shit and decides to make an example, gets carried away
All he wanted was peace and prosperity
Sure he was a belligerent autist with self-worth and frustration issues, but he could have turned out so much better, like a more technical-minded Roboute

I must've confused him with another primarch then, some of them blend together in my head really bad cause theyre stories are so fucking similar, most of them involving overthrowing their shitty planets

Pert named The Eye of Terror, it was watching him at all times. At least it felt like it to him.

All he wanted is to build and create. But E-Money forced him to be a conquer. Seige warfare is the worst kind; long periods of boredom punctuated with intense but brief periods of intense frantic action. Plus, the Great Crusade's SOP for seiges is to offer one chance to surrender, and if that is refused everyone in the fortress was to be put to the sword.

Combine all that with the fact he didn't get any respect from his peers, it's no wonder The Lord of Iron went full fucking crazy.

Oh yeah forgot about those points
Being constantly watched by the eye of an evil God and nobody believing him, along with the very people who were supposed to be his equals treating him like shit and sending him to do all the dirty jobs without inviting him to the parades, that kinda sealed the deal too

He decimated his legion because it wasn't the best, and then it still wasn't the best.

Couldn't Peturabo see he would never be better than Horus, Guilliman or Fulgrim?

>Tfw relate to Perturabo on bitterness and distancing myself from family

Perturabo wasn't that tragic though, because he didn't need that much prompting or an excuse to be who he was. He was described as cold and distrusting before he was adopted, his adoptive father was fairly hands off with him, he was so much smarter and stronger than everyone that court intrigue posed little threat, and the very first thing he did when he was united with his legion is kill a tenth of them at random because they weren't already better than all other legions since before he met them.

He wasn't driven into being what he was, he started there and everything else came as a result of that. Like the lack of appreciation thing, that was because of his issues and just made his issues even worse. Iron Warriors along with Alpha Legion were shit on most of the time by the rest because of their dickish tactics and introvert Primarchs. Especially IW because to Pert, efficient = pile up more ally corpses.

Fulgrim hardly had the chance to do anything because his legion was tiny. And the first thing he did when he could wage his own campaign was find an evil xeno sword that started turning him into a snakeman

The Primarchs novel about him is pretty good d e s u
Shows him both in a favorable light and as a total dickhead
In my opinion, Haley did a good job

>I must've confused him with another primarch then

Probably Mortarion

Maybe he could, but he couldn't accept it

Your periodic reminder, Dorn is a retard. And everyone who likes Dorn is equally retarded.

Iron With, Iron Without

I thought it was because they were weak and he wanted to make em strong ala World Eaters beat each other to death method

how dare you work around my filter.

>all this headcannon
Perturabo is literally never shown or described as any kind of altruist. What ass did you pull half of this shit from?

Your periodic reminder that Dorn used Perturabo to reforge his legion anew, and that despite every single advantage being held by IW, The Fists were starting to turn things around and had Roboute not shown up, Dorn would have arguably killed Perturabo and won the whole thing.

Perturabo is a bitter autistic manchild, and everyone who likes him does so because all of his flaws remind them of themselves, without considering that he's a demigod supergenius and they're a bunch of smelly neckbearded autists dwelling in their parents' basements.

He and his legion had no purpose beyond life on the trench which they both hated and needed because thats all they had. This made it easy for others to manipulate, Erebus made sure his legion committed public treason by nuking his own planet and Horus exploited the fear of retribution and envy of his brothers in order to put him on his side.

I can't stand Perty either (he's like an even more obnoxious, angsty version of Guilliman with a hard on for killing his own dudes) but I don't think everybody that likes him is automatically terrible.

Different authors wrote him different ways, and no editor had both the clout and the stones to tell everyone to sit down and get their shit in order. Just like all the other aspects of the series.

Are the HH books BL's first multi-author series? Because they sure as fuck didn't know how to run one.

But the Iron Cage left Dorn a broken man right?

>could have killed Perturabo

But Perturabo wasn't even in danger, the thing was all a trap from the get go and Dorn fell for it hook line and sinker

No, he was a broken man after he had to carry the Emperor's dead body to the golden throne. The Iron Cage cleared his mind and his legion, yes it was a trap but a trap Dorn was willing to see it through as a test for his legion and himself while also enacting vengeance upon the Iron Warriors. Sure, he failed and couldnt bring Pert in an iron cage but it cleared his mind as after that he accepted the codex and split his legion.

>not 1499680199230(2).jpg

Missed opportunity here, sneakyfag

Why does Pert go "the Emperor cannot forgive us this" after decimating Olympia in his new novel? This is nu ADB and co. Horus Heresy, the Emps as they right him probably wouldn't even notice.

>Mfw Imperial Fist fag can't accept that they failed once in the most tremendous of ways

You get jerked off nonstop by BL but the one time Imperial Fists lose against the Iron Warriors, you are legitimately trying to make it sound like it was still a victory.

Those fucking tubes, he couldn't even turn his head around.

>Not liking tubes

Absolutely heretical.

Poor writing, poor characterisation and never getting a whole lot of "official" time spent on him. Standard 3rd tier primarch shit.

Was he a man broken by Big E, destroyed by a sense of duty that compelled him to put his legion through the grinder?

a bitter and petulant manchild angry he wasn't Horus and that dorn once said he was better?

a quiet tragedy waiting to happen. A man with depths and some measure of humanity buried within?

or an autistic fuckwheel who let every opportunity rot on the vine for reasons we will never know?

He's been all of these because his not horus, sangy or the other major players

This, to be quite honest.

Because once upon a time it was a given that you didn't just annihilate compliant worlds. Pert acted in understandable anger and Put a complete population to the sword. He murdered every person on a planet. Not to quell rebellion, this was an extinction level event. Not even angron murdered entire worlds out of anger.

He considered it unforgivable because it kinda was. Would be do it again? what would it cost to re-populated a world? and how did this act of singular wrath make him look in the eyes of his father?

That bit of fluff has been there since 3rd edition.

Perturarbo literally Exterminatus'd his own homeworld which was a compliant planet, its an open act of treason, Curze did the exact same thing and he knew he was going off the deep end and be punished for it.

>how did this act of singular wrath make him look?
It would make him look exactly how Perturabo really was. Like someone who'd massacre a chunk of his own Legion off the bat. Like someone who'd toss out wave after wave of auxiliaries as literal cannon fodder as much and as often as possible. i.e. a bloody psychopath.

I do not get where people are saying Pert was sympathetic. Must be a book I didn't read.

Explain. This is news to me

Angron murdered plenty of worlds. Russ gave him a verbal and physical bitch slap because of it.

If by bitch slap you mean a fight that both Primarch's claimed as a victory but feared they lost, the result of which was Angron ignoring Russ (and Emps by extension) and fucking off to do whatever he wanted anyway. Unless I'm thinking of another time Russ got sicced on Angron.

>Pert always did exactly what he wanted to do.
Not at all, and that's one of his major issues, how did you managed to miss that ?
Hammer of Olympia (the book you just posted the cover, btw) depicts him quite correctly : an autist that wanted to build things and experiment that became paranoid from his upbringing and got shit assignments to the point he lost it.

Yeah because before he got a single assignment he purged his Legion for not being the best, real sweetheart that Perturabo, never wanted to hurt nobody just play with his legos. My interpretation of him is not at all what you've gathered. His idea of peace hardly took actual people into account, it was simply imposing order, and his punishment for any perceived infraction was immediate execution. That's something I didn't miss.

Perturabo was the designated "Send when trench warfare breaks out and you don't want to waste your own guys" guy. Poor bastard just wanted to build pretty buildings but everyone saw him and his legion as the expendable ones. When he blew up Olympia or whatever it was called, he decided to go to Horus because he was the only one who understood that it needed to be done
Also, he was pals with Vulkan, because both of them liked tinkering with things, and Vulkan even gave Perturabo a 1/144 scale working Titan to play with. It's a shame Perturabo smashed it into Fulgrim's face to teach him a lesson.

Why- how in holy fuck does trench warfare exist in 40k

Way to ignore my point and misread it. He never did what he wanted to. And yes, being an autist (in the sense he was more interested in technical things than in humans he didn't understand) and paranoid from his upbringing he ended up a bloody tyrant. You seemed to miss the development he got in that book, to me.

>but everyone saw him and his legion as the expendable ones
A conception that he brought on himself. I swear you guys did not read what I read. He wasn't called the Corpse Grinder because he was forced to do it. You can want to design buildings AND be a screwed up sociopath, they aren't mutually exclusive. Perturabo's peace was suppression, and death never mattered. That's why Olympia turned out the way it did.

Angron is a manlet. Russ automatically wins

>dat level of delusion

If what he wanted to do was impose order through violence, he did that a whole lot. Ask Olympia. That is Perturabo's peace and it always was.

Why the fuck is he so smug?

How is it any different than the Imperium? Order of my way or the highway manner? Perturabo didn't do anything wrong that the emperor and the imperium hadn't done a thousand times over.

He wanted to learn things and experiment with technology. He also tried to build a perfect society on Olympia, but as he didn't understand humans, it failed horribly.
Go read Hammer of Olympia, for someone who brings its case so often you sound like you didn't read it.

He's pretty much the Chris Chan of the primarchs.

What does demon Pert even look like never see any good pics

So, any new lore for the Dark Angels since Robooty launched the indomitus crusad?

>How is it any different than the Imperium?
What year? Because as someone else said, there was a time when just wiping out a compliant planet was considered a pretty huge infraction. There was also a time when using your troops specifically to run the enemy out of ammunition was looked down upon.

I did read it, I just didn't glean the same message you did. I know what his goals were, but the means matter, and Perturabo was quite single minded when it came to those means. If you want to see him as tragic and sympathetic that's fine. I doubt we'll see eye to eye on this one.

They are sucking even more dong than before and the Lion woke up all pissed off because they are fighting on the wrong side.

>There was also a time when using your troops specifically to run the enemy out of ammunition was looked down upon

Thunder Warriors say hi

Did Russ and Pert ever meet? I imagine that would be a fun situation when Russ come in at 2am drunk as fuck with like 5 naked sisters of sience while Pert is trying to paint his war game miniatures the next room over.

The Primarchs novel that was recently published
It's all GW canon, ese

>5 naked sisters of sience

Begone Russ and leave the sisters! Its time for 'science'!.

Is there a real life equivilant for that book that Pertardo was obsessed with?

>Because once upon a time it was a given that you didn't just annihilate compliant worlds.
You mean like Monarchia? This is ADB-world now, the Emperor is an uncaring autist who never cared about his children or servants.

>But Perturabo wasn't even in danger
Perturabo had a choice, go all in or run away. With his autism in mind, what do you think he was gonna choose?
>Outright said Dorn knew it was a trap and walked in there anyway to finds either death or rebirth for himself and his legion
>Despite having every advantage imaginable IW STILL start losing
>Guilliman appears just as Perturabo had to decide between going all in or running away
Lol, Iron Warriors, true to your name, bitter like no other.

To be fair I dont think the Emperor or anyone notices the nuking of Olympia until Isstvaan and Horus simply exploits the fear of censure in Perty to coerce him into heresy.

That goes against all his prior characterization.

Monarchia was evacuated, though. Agree on the ADB hate.

I thought I was the only one that dislikes the overwhelming majority of ADBs work. Really wish the guy would just go away and take his shit lore with him.

They need Abnett back but hes making too much money at Marvel. Just found out today he created Guardians of the Galaxy

Even when his work is ''good'', it's mediocre. Mediocre prose, predictable twists, basically all the good stuff in his books was already there in the lore, he just fleshed it out, and most of the time, it's worse off for it.
He does have some great stuff though, like the Custodian Vendatha, or the scene where Corvus descends upon the Word Bearers. I love those, for example.

The only thing he's written that I ever liked was his original Night Lords series. I suppose in retrospect the seeds of the flaws that would later explode were there, but I could tolerate them because the narrative made clear that protagonists were just embittered losers.

imagine a Mutilators only now he has imperial, admech, elder, and titan weapons that are all corrupted and times 8.

Pert should've died in the Heresy. Having most of the Primarchs survive, but fuck off the Daemon land or disappear in contrived ways, is retarded.

COME AND FIST ME ROGAL

>natural statesman gets flung to a planet where its Game of Thrones 30k all day every day
>world affairs turns him into a monster
>he is content with staying a monster
>his best invention is a bunch of rocket pods taped together on the back of a terminator

>natural statesman

If he was a statesman like Guilliman or Fulgrim he would've taken over the planet and reformed it, instead he sat on his dick drawing weapons of mass destruction and hating everyone.

He wasnt a statesman, Perturarbo is a cold machine made to calculate the most efficient ways to conquer and he, like Lorgar, hated what he is but accepts it and makes the most of it because in the end he doesnt care about his legion or how many thousands need to die for victory.

I didn't say he was going to be the best statesmen ever, but he was much better at comprehending politics compared to many of his brothers. But he found the hammer to be an effective tool at everything, so he stuck to what he knew best. Even when he wanted to expand his horizons, it was just some derivative of hammer application (metaphorically speaking).

His mind just couldn't get away from the idea of fucking something up.

>he was much better at comprehending politics

You defeat your own argument, he could only destroy and, like Dorn, never compromised which is why most primarchs hated Perturarbo. He is, according to you, the worst politician.

I took this b8, it was yummy.

I don't think it was bait at all, though I more or less agree with you. There seem to be some accounts that really soften Pert's image, and so it can be hard to see where some anons are coming from when they seem to suggest that Perturabo was purely a victim of circumstance. To me he always just seemed like a cold arrogant evil genius from start to finish.

>Somebody's actually defending the Fists actions at the Iron Cage
>And it isn't me
My battle brother from another mother

He looks better with a beard.

Monarchia was Lorgar deliberately disobeying the Emperor after being told multiple times to stop it. Even when Emps brought Malcador with him to try one last time to get Lorgar to stop, Lorgar still didn't stop.

Compare to Pert, I don't think Emps really looked closely enough at him. Lorgar was being a problem for a while.

I'm just gonna say my two sense here. I have read very few BL books, they're just genre fiction schlock. Nothing wrong with that but there are too many to even keep up with these days.

However I must say the change to the Emperor being a tyrant is aligning to my previously held headcanon. It never made sense to me that the Emperor could be considered a 'good man'. I always considered the ascended Emperors connection to humanity as his pure beliefs. How could an individual so singular and disconnected for man relate and bond with anyone? It's nonsense to think he could.

So I do understand the backlash and I know the writing is probably sub-par, however the 'reveal' of the Emperor being the tyrant who won the Terran Wars just makes sense to me.

So, standard operating procedure for BL these days?

Oh, the idea of the Emperor being a 'dark' figure is fine, as long as you can figure out how to make the writing not shit.
Instead, we just have the Emperor act wildly inconsistent, basically to make sure that every Traitor Primarch has specific daddy issues with him, rather then any other reasons to rebel - EXCEPT for Horus, who is a fucking plot device in the story named after him.

as said my problem isn't that they portray the Emperor as a conniving, arrogant, sociopath.

My problem is they portray him as an incompetent, uncharismatic, illogical sociopath.

The Emperor should be the ultimate will to power ubermensch. Incredibly charming, affable, intelligent, admirable - and incredibly horrifying when you realize absolutely everything about him is just a calculated ruse to achieve his ends however noble they may be of intent, and that the man himself is just naked ambition and messiah complex made manifest

You want a better example of the Emperor? How he should have been - nuanced, 'logically' correct and yet still frighteningly and cruelly inhuman? See this Optimus Prime sounding motherfucker. THAT is what the Emperor of Mankind should be like.

>My problem is they portray him as an incompetent, uncharismatic, illogical sociopath.
Do you have any examples?

>Russ gave him a verbal and physical bitch slap because of it.

That's a funny way of saying Angron verbally blew him the fuck out so hard, all Russ could do was stammer "y-you're a heretic!"

You think Perty got it bad try and be Curze

>plagued by terrible visions you don't understand and don't control
>no one understands or even bothers to help with this
>gets worse and now you're full on schizo
>get pretty much no credit or prestige for your conquest and doing your job of being a mega asshole
>the voice is pretty much in control now, in your moments of know everything is too fucked up to bother
>just let yourself be killed to end your suffering

But but no one else could see that sky thing sob huck sniff