EDH/Commander General

This is reasonable but I will say that as a new player, I was more bummed out infinite combos than anything else

I actually thought that Armageddon was very exciting and fun at first.

Now I don't mind infinite combos, what I dislike is tutors

Monored land punishment can be a good change of pace once in a while.

>What's a strat or a theme you won't play, whether it be ethics or disinterest?
Hardcore "I am going for this particular infinite" decks bore me. Well, that's not strictly true, they're fun to play once or twice, but their decision tree is quickly solved since most of the deck is just getting you to your combo state, and I end up benching and ultimately disassembling them in favor of decks that give me a more varied experience by interacting with the table and opening themselves up to interaction. I know people love to bitch about MLD and Stax, especially about their players getting butthurt when they get btfo by a spanner in the works (Path the Avacyn or whatever) but I'm the kind of player who will laugh at my own misfortune... I actually like it if my deck blows up in my face now and again or if pushed the exact wrong way at the exact wrong time, it's more entertaining than doing the same exact thing over and over again.

>lifegain with an interesting twist

Maybe Karlov? You're not really gaining life just because, you're doing it to exile shit

you know, to be clear I don't mind it when people go infinite, or even if I accidentally infinite myself. It's when it becomes quick, reliable, protected, and ceases to explore the fact that I have 60+ unique nonlands that it gets old real quick.

Azorius GroupHate. I mean, I get it, you just build a small army and then Adjudicate the competition into uselessness, but... come on! Half the time players want to keep a game running smoothly so they can play 4 or 5 times a night, and prolonging a game like that just ruins it for everyone.

Yeah I feel you. I took mind over matter out of my azami deck because playing it was just draw until I find it. I'm still a combo deck and I still go infinite whenever I win but now i have to piece together something a little more modular and complicated, like one time I did Archaeomancer + snap + high tide + extraplanar lens for infinite draw

I'm thinking about cutting paradox engine for doing kind of the same thing of making my other combos obsolete

>What's a strat or a theme you won't play, whether it be ethics or disinterest?

Elves. Because [s]cult[/s] fandom.

You know normally I would be upset at myself for fucking up but in this case its just representing what im talking about with greater honestly.

Yeah, I was fortuneate enough to pull a Paradox engine and it's been tough finding an a home where it's good but doesn't immediately become the secret commander. Dralnu Storm is fairly promising though since while the Engine really kicks the deck into an insane combo turn, it can still fizzle itself if I'm not careful (or hideously unlucky)

Yeah, the store owner is thinking about banning infinite combos in our little weekly tournaments cuz of all the bad feels. He says he's fine with it in casual, but when his paycheck is on the line, he has the pander. It's really a bummer.

>He doesn't play a Kazuul Punisher deck
lmaoing@ your life

>but when his paycheck is on the line, he has the pander. It's really a bummer.

Great flavor there.
>"Man, Amonkhet is great!"
>"Hey, no, don't do that!"

I'm in a bind, EDHg. I'm building Zur with a focus on Enchantments (Constellation in particular along with some pillowfort stuff), but I can't shake the urge to say no to Doomsday. I wouldn't gun for it every game and I wouldn't make it my primary wincon, but having that option is very enticing and it would be nice to have a way to end games that have dragged on too long. Should I just do it? A lot of the cards I would use for the piles are cards that I wouldn't mind having in the deck otherwise, so it'd just be a straight upgrade. I also have some open slots to fill.

Just go ahead and slap a doomsday package in there. "Oops, I win" draws are often decent things to have and you have to hit BBB in tricolor; hope you've got good fixing!

Can anybody explain to me why zur is popular with doomsday? Doomsday is a triple black sorcery? Is there some

My landbase is decent enough and I have things like Urborg and Chromatic Lantern. I may include a Dark Ritual just because even outside of the combo it's decent ramp.

Esper colors are good for Doomsday and Zur makes for a solid backup plan I suppose. In my case, Doomsday is the backup plan rather than my goal. It also tends to be a solid wincon in any BUx deck. My question is why are cycling cards to popular in Zur? I get that Astral Slide is a thing, but it can't be that good. A cycling based deck does seem cool, but most of the Zur decks I see use it.

As far as I know it's just that Zur is the top tier hardcore combo commander for Esper and Doomsday is the best combo-tutor ever printed so if you're tryhard (At which point your mana base will start with 3 dual-3 shock-9 fetch to just flip off the idea that colored requirements are hard) you might as well.

>cycling based deck
I really want to see Esper Cycling when we have Shadow of the Grave and New Perspectives in addition to Slide and Fluctuator.

>paying for Shadow of the Grave by discarding two with Skirge Familiar
Orgasmic.

>to just flip off the idea that colored requirements are hard) you might as well
Honestly they aren't. I slapped 9 fetch in a 5C deck and never have issues hitting mana. And I'm not even using ABR duals.

Well 9 fetches is out of most people's budgets, not to mention they are broken and clearly the best mana fixing lands ever printed.

So sure it's not hard to hit your mana with 9/10 of the best mana fixing lands

>most people's budgets
Why is someone playing the most expensive format if they are doing so on a budget?

>most expensive format
This isn't Vintage. The way EDH scales can get crazy on price point, but you can have fun in this format for pretty cheap. Meanwhile you have to pretty much mortgage your house if you want to do anything in Vintage.

But Mishra's Workshop only costs 1,000 dollarinos!
It's fine if you skip lunch for a decade or two.

>the most expensive forma
Are you crazy? You can make great decks with the budget of a budget modern deck.

So I run Ephara, and I've always been a fan of Angels as finishers: mostly because when I started playing Serra Angel was still relevant, and beating face with a beefy angel is nostalgic as hell.

Suggestions for a good fit that might play off Ephara and blinking? Resto is already in but doesn't feel "big" enough.

Just look up some Angels?

Akroma is a classic that hasn't stopped being a threat, that mana cost just makes a lot of people pass up on her.

There is a 6 drop angel from kaladesh that blinks, 4/4 and doesn't have flash

Angel of invention is pretty cool too

Angel of Serenity?

OGW Linvala

Second for Serenity

Must have monowhite answers for big threats? (Path, Oust, dispatch, etc.) i'd like to see if there are other ones

>just look up
The reason I asked is because other players may have a different take on what might be good. What I want is perspective.

Wispweaver feels like a less good Resto Angel, which I don't feel any deck that WANTS Resto Angel will also want. Angel of Invention is kind of neat.

Angel of Serenity is also in already, but I'm considering Exalted Angel. Blinking on someone else's turn is how you wanna be doing it and the lifegain+big ass+evasion feels relevant for a grindy value deck.

>Now I don't mind infinite combos, what I dislike is tutors

Same thing, really, but you're just focusing on the vector, not the disease.

Exalted Angel is pretty mediocre desu, wispweaver seems better. It's obviously a bad resto Angel but blinking a creature, reusing an etb and drawing off ephara seems better than lifelink + morph

i guess if you really need the lifelink

No. I don't like a mono black deck that just tutors for crypt ghost and exa board wipe every single turn either. It's tutors that I don't like.

No. I don't like a mono black deck that just tutors for crypt ghost and extra planar lens every game, and then a board wipe every single turn. It's tutors that I don't like.

If you just want a big angel to swing with use baneslayer angel or avacyn, angel of hope.

Sucks that bruna, the fading light is an on-cast trigger otherwise I would suggest her.

mono blue counterspell.
I have made mono u aggro, artifacts and stacks.
I will never play mono u with more than 2 or 3 counterspells.

*blocks your path*

Can anyone give me a quick rundown on what has happened since Shadows over Innistrad?

Part of why Resto Angel makes the cut is that I can draw off Ephara with it on ANYONE else's turn. No flash kind of kills Wispweaver for me, since I have plenty of cheaper blink effects available that aren't 6cmc and sorcery speed.

I DO have a dragonfag in my local group, so Baneslayer might not be a lame choice.

What is the best card in HOU and why is it The Scarab God?

nahiri is a bitch and because sorin didnt save zendikar from the eldrazi, so she summons emrakul onto innistrad.
the jacetice league seals emrakul into the moon but she possesses tamiyo and tamiyo is forced to leave (i think?)
nahiri confronts sorin and seals him in a giant stone that constantly grinds on him making it impossible for him to planeswalk out, then she planeswalks away.

kaladesh im not too sure something about chandra's mom starting a revolution because da big ebil gubmint is controlling all invention and artifice, so they blow up some giant building and also expose tezzeret abusing artificers to make a planar brige that bolas can use to teleport his army around.
amonkhet they go to try and investigate and stop bolas but people revere him (but never has seen him)
HOU, bolas comes back, destroys everything, rezzes everything, kills all gods, defeats the jacetice league and flings them across the multiverse (this im not sure of but explains jace in ixalan? can anyone confirm?)

Swords to Plowshares, Council's Justice, Unexpectedly Absent, Oblivion Ring and the variants.
There's also Condemn I suppose but I like it perhaps even less than Dispatch.

>kills all gods
Hazoret survives, or at least it seems so up until the last story article I read, the one where Bontu dies.

wasnt it implied she was wounded and mind wiped stranded in the desert? i doubt she would live, but hey gotta leave something open for when they come back to amonkhet

It's our lord and savior The Scarab God because Dimir finally has a commander who does something that's not janky mill or parasitic zombie tribal (I mean, he still has a zombie tribal effect but I'm not convinced you need to run a single card with zombie on the typeline to make it work)

Scorpion God is second for giving Rakdos CA.

Solemnity really makes me want a deck around abusing things like persist and undying, preferably in Mardu colors, but I'm not seeing a lot of synergy for that with potential commanders.

...

Go Abzan instead so you can abuse persist with Melira and vizier too

Abzan
Karador

>most expensive format
You're funny.

Seriously though, money sunk into EDH hits diminishing returns surprisingly quickly. a 100 dollar brew is going to be leagues above a 50 dollar budget shitstorm, and a ~200 build will probably stand head and shoulders over the 100 dollar build. But after that you get less and less quality per budget doubling. a 400 dollar EDH deck runs better than 200 but not that much, you'll barely notice the jump from 400 to 800, and the gap from the 800 dollar deck to a 1600 or 3200 dollar cedh monstrosity might as well be pimping out the cheaper deck with foil promos and guru lands for all it'll do to your win rate. Granted, some decks will have their "Home" value higher or lower. I'm not sure you could make krenko any better above one hundred something while anything 5c can probably drain your bank account faster than identity thief with a fetish for gold-plated hookers and crack, but breaking into the range where you're able to compete and win (even if at a worse-than-parity rate) is, on average, wildly cheaper than doing the same in Legacy or Vintage.

Would it be more fun to draft one box of modern masters2017 or a box of amonket and hour of devistation?

MM will give you the hype of potentially opening that one money card followed by the crushing disappointment of realizing that even if you DO crack a Goyf or planeswalker most of your packs were still hot garbage. Amonkhet and HoD were pretty average sets but hey, the games will be fun and you'll get about what you expect.

Don't forget to abuse cumulative upkeep, too!

Like says, Abzan probably gives you the most toys. If you go Esper, Zur can be your commander and tutor Solemnity. In Mardu, you could run Alesha and take advantage of the fact that most of the creatures you can loop and even some good sac outlets are recurrable by her if something untoward happens before you combo off.

A long time ago i saw a dude post advice on how many lands to run, and it followed a formula that was like "average cmc times 10, minus one land for each sol ring/mana crypt/mana vault, minus one land for every two mana rocks..." But i lost the screen cap i took and doubt remember it any more. Any user's remember it?

If you need advice on how many lands to run: run 36-40. No more and no less until you know what you're doing. Also 10 pieces of ramp.

So I feel like an idiot for not realizing it sooner, but pic related with a free sac outlet like Yahenni completely shut down token decks!

Unless they are putting in a buttload of tokens at once sure. What fucking shit deck makes one at a time?

>I'm not sure you could make krenko any better above one hundred something

In situations like that, there's usually a single card that ends up doubling, or tripling the price of the deck.

Feldon.

Read the rulings on gatherer at least. Apparently when a bucket load come in you gain control of all of them one after another. As long as sac is instant speed, you can just deny them all.

To elaborate on this, it's because Illusory Gains triggers once for each token entering the battlefield and you can respond to each one as they pass by. So if someone makes 5 tokens, it triggers 5 times. Once the first trigger resolves, you can sac the creature you took before the second trigger gets to resolve.

>a free sac outlet like Yahenni
Or you know. A good sac outlet like phyrexian/ashnod.

>303.4c If an Aura is enchanting an illegal object or player as defined by its enchant ability and other applicable effects, the object it was attached to no longer exists, or the player it was attached to has left the game, the Aura is put into its owner’s graveyard. (This is a state-based action. See rule 704.)
>704.5n If an Aura is attached to an illegal object or player, or is not attached to an object or player, that Aura is put into its owner’s graveyard.
>704.3 Whenever a player would get priority (see rule 116, “Timing and Priority”), the game checks for any of the listed conditions for state-based actions, then performs all applicable state-based actions simultaneously as a single event. If any state-based actions are performed as a result of a check, the check is repeated; otherwise all triggered abilities that are waiting to be put on the stack are put on the stack, then the check is repeated. Once no more state-based actions have been performed as the result of a check and no triggered abilities are waiting to be put on the stack, the appropriate player gets priority. This process also occurs during the cleanup step (see rule 514), except that if no state-based actions are performed as the result of the step’s first check and no triggered abilities are waiting to be put on the stack, then no player gets priority and the step ends.
This doesn't work.

>tfw really want to play old stuff like the abyss or nether void
>tfw don't feel like paying over 100$ for an italian card in excellent condition

Man, the price of losing all your friends is really high these days.

Unsure if this is the best place to ask, but I was wondering if anyone can give a very basic rundown on building up an EDH deck. I mostly only play casual kitchen table stuff where the rules are basically "follow Vintage ban/restrictions + whatever you can afford" and people are wanting to shift to EDH to change it up but no one really has any experience with it. So far I've just been throwing whatever cards together in a list to make a super janky Gisela double damage and multiple combat steps deck (using stuff like Fury of the Horde). It's fun but there's not really a game plan other than play cool shit. Or am I missing the point is that what EDH is all about?

If you sac a creature that is enchanted then the enchantment goes to the graveyard. It's not going to come back from the graveyard to attach to something else.

I find it best to start out with getting a right feel for ratios by looking around at lists. For example, how many lands, creatures, ramp, interaction, main synergy, backup synergy, ect.

You seem to be doing fine. Gisela is good and does so much damage that she overcomes the 40 life difference. Just play what you like, the general makes deckbuilding different and highlander encourages variance and keeping games fresh.

EDH is about having fun.

Gotcha. Thank you guys very much for the feedback!

you currently understand EDH better than most people making competitive tier 1 decks. i'm not even joking. you are currently playing the format th way it was intended to be played. just run whatever you think is fun for you and the group.

Hmm, well that sucks then. In that case, are there any enchantments or other permanants that destroy a creature once you lose control of it?

Yo. Bought a "Seize Control" EDH deck long time ago. never got to play it. made some minor upgrades (added in guttersnipe). I'm going to my LGS to play tonight.
>kinda nervous
>how fucked am i?

People making competitive tier 1 decks enjoy competitive tier 1 decks. Let them like what they like.

I want a new allied color focused set.

I need my big, fat Simic mutants and monsters.

Please, Wizards.

Play Zedru
give out shitloads of tokens
play pic related
cast Mirrorweave starting the bombshell

Make it fun and make it work, nobody wants to watch you jerk for 20 minutes

thanks!

>Simic
>Allied

Try again.

Assuming you meant enemy, wait for return to Tarkir, that set will almost certainly be heavy enemy themed

>simicfag asking for more toys

you seem triggered, borosfag

Hopefully it brings back the wedges focusing on the outnumbered color instead of one of the allied ones

>What's a strat or a theme you won't play, whether it be ethics or disinterest?
Blue-based combo. It's like playing the same game of chess every time be it Polymorph, Doomsday or Hermit, it's always the same line on play. Ironically Hermit is actually fun in Karador because you can't just Dread Return Angel of Glory's Rise and auto-win.

...