Nasuverse General

knowing his luck he'd be interpreted as a horrifying clockwork spider thing

I wouldn't mind that.
What would his skills be?

>gay horrifying mechanical spider that breathes cyanide as a noble phantasm

item creation: c-b+++
mind's eye:fake (maths) b

well we already have a mechanical spider with a lion head in strange fake that has fucking stealth camo and can absorb technology.

Anyone want to prattle on about servants?
How about Marco Polo? D or E in all stats, EX Noble Phantasm; his NP "trades" stats or other attributes with other servants it affects.
Or how about the original Marathon runner?

Honestly, system would depend really what type of game I was actually going to run. Even if you narrowed it down to "Fate", there's like half a dozen different variations on the HGW in official media, let alone a GM putting his own spin on it. Plus TM/Nasu works are a fucking tangle of continuities and IIRC from some of these earlier threads some works' settings are basically mutually exclusive.

I've heard good things about the new edition of UA, but I need to actually take some time to study it.

Just remember that TOHSAKA RIN PLEASES OLD MEN FOR MONEY

Ohohohohohohohoho~

>italian
>steals things

ok it fits

Has anyone here actually attempted to run/play a Holy Grail War? I was part of one based in Fuyuki where the PC's just controlled the Masters and gave their plans of action to the GM, who then had them interact with other players. The whole game was structured into "turns" that would last around a week, due to the GM having to ask the players on how they react to making contact with the others, and at the end, they would get a snippet of news that would tell them about major incidents in the city.

One of said events was the Caster pair blowing up a hotel a la Kiritsugu, while another accidentally let a bunch murderous amphibian humanoid creatures loose into the city at large.

Was really fucking fun, all things considered. Sadly, I don't think the GM is going to continue doing stuff like it for some time, since the last time they updated was months ago.

GEM MAGECRAFT IS EXPENSIVE YOU K-

Actually, Luvia would know. In fact, in Prisma she pays Rin to be a maid in her mansion.

Whatever, Rin's a goddess now. What are you, ojou hair?

Technically Rin is two goddesses.

hatesex when?

just play a game of catan with action figures

Tbh what there is to discuss in Turkeyhandle in these days.
>remake is stuck in a deveploment hell that it probably isn't going to leave anytime soon
>best girl's va died from japanese cold a year and half ago

Wait what? Who was the one who died?

Hisui's Seiyuu.

Luvia go to bed.
Stop harassing your superiors.

Everyone knows this is Luvia's endgame.

So Luvia gets to bang two goddesses?

No sane individual would ever want to fuck Ishtar. You have a bad habit of dying if you do.

What about banging her cuter sister instead?

>that face

Eurrrrrrrrrrrrrrgh.

How come there aren't any more African Servants?

>Implying Japan knows anything about brown people beyond that they make exotic waifus

...

For a game non-fate related on Nasuverse, the system I found that felt pretty good to play around is the one on heavens-feel.com
It's a mix of the Buffy rpg with elements of WoD, and mixed in with tons of custom qualities and interesting mechanics. The game I ran for a few weeks had a good flow going through it, even if most of the players had little idea of what the Nasuverse was.

There aren't even any arabian ones. Which when you consider all of the myths and legends from that area is kind of odd.
My theory is that Nasu couldn't have any of them in because it would then raise the question of "Well, why are we fighting over this nebulous maybe wishing engine that is the Grail instead of just summoning the Djinni of Alladdin or any number of other tales and making a wish?"

It makes the supposed endgame of what's going on in Prismiylla even weirder when you consider the best thing that guy over there could come up with was Pandora's box as his wish machine.

>There aren't even any arabian ones
Hassan-i-Sabbah doesn't count?

I shamelessly ripped of Zelretch as an npc in my world

I don't even plan on people to run into him, but he's there somewhere

Yeah, but where's Ali-Baba? Where's Sinbad? Abdul Alhazred? Shazerade? Zayn-Al-Asnam? The Cobbler? Ali? Hussain?

It's literally just him. Even in things like FGO with it's vastly inflated castlist we still haven't seen any other arabian servants, and NOTHING from 1001 nights.

One theory from a while back was that it's because the Grail is Christian, has a mind of its own, and (via the Crusades) flat out refuses to register spirits that are 'heroic' by ardent Muslims.
The Hassan loopholed this because enough non-Muslims were either terrified by or respected them.

Thing is, the Grail ISN'T christian. It's a magic construct hashed together by Zelretch, Gramps Matou and Tousaka. It had some semi-sentience when it got corrupted by Angry Manjuu, but the thing summons pagan heroes all the time without problems. It shouldn't even have allowed the summoning of protestants or jews if that was the case.

My theories run like this:

1: Like Pandora in the PrisymIylla Alt Universe, 1001 nights and all of it's associated stories simply don't exist in the Nasuverse.

2: Those heroic spirits associated with the Mythos are too powerful for the grail to summon.

3: The 1001 nights pantheon has been sequestered somehow, possibly via a Djinni wish.

4: Not a single figure in that mythos died in such a way as they would want to enter the Grail System.

>Shazerade
She's in FGO now. Here I'm just gonna guess that Arabic myth/history is relatively alien to the game's creators, and that they don't think that Arabic myth is relevant to their target market who would primarily be familiar with European/Greek/American myth and history

Exceptions of course would be Karna, Arjuna, Rama and Sita, but I think Karna's appearance in Apocrypha kind of opened the floodgates. And on that note, you'd think Biblical figures would be more frequent, given the importance of Christianity to world history.

Michael when?

>Exceptions of course
Meant how Indian myth figures are somehow more prevalent than Arabic figures, despite also probably being "relatively alien"

user, the Fuyuki Grail is fake and was copying from another artifact.
The real Grail is part of the Throne of Heroes.
Consider for a moment that only Christian Saints can be Rulers (Amakusa is an anti-saint, he counts).

Indian myths are introduced into Japan through Buddhism.

I want to like Mahoyo, but nobody translated it and it features an Aoko who is very not at all like herself in any respect, including visually.

Michael who?

>Shazerade
She's in FGO, introduced in Argatha. Sinbad Alibaba appears in her animations, thus we can guess he may not be real.
I hate that I rolled her instead of Wu Zetian, which was who I was going for. At least I got NP2 Penthesilea

>mfw I am on a rooted Chinese phone
Google SafetyNet can go fuck itself. I just wanted to play FGO, but noooo

The archangel

I was in a play-by-post Fate game that obviously got dumb fast, but I'm still proud of what I did. I made Isaac Newton as a Caster, with the apple he found being the Apple of Discord. Upon seeing it fall, not only did he understand gravity, but he literally saw how it worked- the stage mechanics behind the curtains, so to speak. So I gave him the apple as one NP- specifically, a gigantic one that falls like a meteor and deals catastrophic damage- and his Principia Mathematica being a book that let him fuck with the laws of physics, gravity, and thermodynamics.

How do you turn your non-legendary figures into servants?

Due to the rules, not technically possible. He's the closest thing to god in christian mythology, meaning his divinity is to high to be summoned.

There are cases where things with high divinity are summoned, but the cases are almost always weaker than the real deal.

Heracles is half human, artemis wasn't actually summoned but wedged her way in as part of summoning orion, suzuka gozen loses her qualifications to be a heroic spirit if she uses her third swords ability for too long.

An actual angel isn't possible to be summoned because its a literal divine construct.

How fucked up would the grail have to be to summon Jesus?

I think his divinity would be too high, unless we got Jesus Lily somehow.

To summon jesus? Thats plausible. He'd probably be a saver class like buddha.

His divinity is really high, but he's basically a demigod. So around the same level as heracles.

By the same token as the buddha though, he'd probably only ever get summoned in the moon cell grail wars.

You'd be unable to, unless you changed his canon pretty hard. 100% god is kinda a defining part of him and the grail can't summon full gods.

Sure an angel can't be summoned but if Nasu wants a character in he'll make up some loophole and throw it in.

We've had plenty of characters break established rules ever since F/SN

>No Japanese servants
EMIYA
>Assassins have to be Hassan
Sasaki
>Servants have to die to be summoned
Arturia
>Only 7 servants are summone
Oh hey this guy was left over from the last war
>Hercules has all these lives and no matter how powerful the attack he'll only die once and then be immune to it
Caliburn miracle killing him 7 times over
>Gods can't be summoned
Well I want some gods in so they decide to show up anyways
>You need to have some desire for the grail
Rulers
>You need to be from this planet
Altera

If Nasu wants Michael in Michael will go in

ignoring stheno, euryale......

To be fair, they're demigods like Heracles. On the god scale, they're much more manageable. Compare them to hero deities like Zhuge Liang.

By turning them into young waifus, of course. Pecos Bill for instance is stereotypical anime cowgirl, most likely with an American flag bra.

stheno and euryala are not demigods in nasu.
They are full blown gods, they are just so shitty gods that they are stronger in the servant form

Rulers aren't the same. They specifically are chosen for the job to act as a neutral party specifically BECAUSE they don't have desire for the grail.

As for the rest of that, none of it actually breaks the rules outright besides koujiro, and medea literally has a weapon called rule breaker. Out of all of those, thats the one you should worry about least.

And altera not being from earth was some shit extella made up afterward anyways.

Nasu has actually stated that Jesus would have a Divinity EX+++ ranking or something dumb like tat, which makes him impossible to summon. He also said he would have a reality marble the size of 'absolutely everything', the ability to 'remake everything as he sees fit', and an 'infinite mana source'...
In short, not only is he ineligible, he'd be the single most broken character that Nasu has ever mentioned.

Actually, anything where the counterforce is involved can basically be written off as "Some shit is being stupid and we sent something to stop it"

>In short, not only is he ineligible, he'd be the single most broken character that Nasu has ever mentioned.

DEUS VULT! Pagans BTFO

>And altera not being from earth was some shit extella made up afterward anyways.
Extella was supposed to be the first thing she showed up in but either it for delayed or she got pushed into GO because they needed a new saber. She was always going to be this weird alien thing from another solar system intent on wiping out all life on the planet

Regardless, if Nasu wants a certain character in he will put it in, if it contradicts some rule or statement he made earlier he either won't care or come up with some single line for that person to say so he can go "see I'm not breaking a rule it's just not following it!" Because Nasu is very good at leaving little loopholes in everything he writes so he can exploit them later on

I feel like it's more he words things so open endedly or never even goes into it that allows him to develop 'loopholes' aka retcons.

How would you go about doing Mana Transfers?

The Shinrei/gods definition is contrived and you know it. Medusa is explicitly called a demigod, Stheno and Euryale not being labeled as such is because the writer was a hack. In Grand Order, the allegedly Shinrei Stheno didn't even have Kennou, which is a god's defining ability in the Nasuverse.

...Shit, now I kind of want to see him written up, just for shits and giggles. Actually, we could probably do that since Nasu will never do anything official with him.

So what would Jesus' Noble Phantasms be? The reality marble that changes everything could be called Genesis, but aside from that, he -has- to have one related to the cross. What would it do though? If he dies, he returns three days later?

Besides caliburn, gods, and maybe gil, he really didn't. Everything else can be explained away pretty easily.

what did you mean by "Servants need to die to be summoned" Though? gil is one thing, but arturia doesn't count towards that. Especially since fate/zero is only debatable canon, as it was written by the urobutcher and not Type-moon.

>No Japanese servants
Don't know where this is from, sounds terribly misinformed though, so maybe from Rin?
>Assassins have to be Hassan
It's not that they have to be Hassan, it's that if you just summon an Assassin, then the name of the class itself acts as a catalyst for the Hassans. If you have a more powerful catalyst or manipulate the system so that you're not actually summoning Assassin (see: Kojirou, who was just a substitute filling the spot of Assassin), you can summon someone else
>Servants have to die to be summoned
Not really, dunno why though. Scathach, Arturia, King Hassan, etc.
>Only 7 servants are summoned
This is true. Only 7 Servants were summoned in each war. It was never said that Servants couldn't continue to exist after the wars end though.
>Hercules has all these lives and no matter how powerful the attack he'll only die once and then be immune to it
I don't think it's ever mentioned that he'll only die once to any attack. Feel free to show me otherwise though.
>Gods can't be summoned
Never actually been summoned, Artemis just barged in on the summoning of Orion
>You need to have some desire for the grail
You don't. You just need to agree to be summoned. Someone like Karna with no real desires joined the Great Grail War because he was asked, and he's the Hero of Charity.
>You need to be from this planet
Don't remember this ever being stated, but Altera forged her own legend on Earth as Attila the Hun, so she became recorded in the Throne of Heroes.

"Prince of Peace." If Jesus is killed, natural disasters ravage the area, bringing peace in a way. This is derived from one of Jesus' titles, as well as all the earthquakes and thunderstorms that happened after his death, presumably caused by Big Daddy.

You're grasping at straws for a few of these.
Nasu makes shit up.
I remember in a Veeky Forums thread or something talking bout how nasu sain in a interview arturia couldn't ride motorcycles until the bloody interviewer reminded him of zero.

Purifying evil, ressurecting the dead, making miracles happen. Probably something like EX divinity making him both 100% God and 100% human

Follow the Nicola Tesla example and exaggerate their historical traits to extremes, while also using the servant vessel as a baseline for stats.
Take George Washington for example, he was actually considered very talented with the sword (decent agility and decent strength), highly versed in the matters of faith (and it is rumored that he dabbled in 'faith based wonders', eg magic by any other name), was extremely lucky (having his horse shot out from under him no less than 9 times and coming out of that unscathed), and by official record actually took 'several' direct hits from bullets and after the battle shook them out of his coat - completely unharmed. This on top of his obvious charisma and such and such.

Given this, I would take Washington, amke him a Saber, and give him:
Str: C | End: EX | Agi: B | Mana: C | Luck: A | Noble Phantasm: A+

Class skills being modest reduction based Magic Resistance from his unshakable faith, good (but not great) Riding because he actually was an excellent horseman, and a relatively high (for a Saber) Independent Action due to his history as a (and military emphasis on) Scout(s) and Light Infantry.
Personal Skills would be...
Absurdly high Charisma, modest instinct, good disengage, some score in bravery, and damn there are too many of these for me to bother going through.

His Noble Phantasm would be single, simple, but powerful.
'E pluribus unum - First in the hearts of his countrymen', A+ rank, Skill type, Anti-Army.
It would basically allow Washington to enhance those under his command to fight on par with Servants or just enhance them (massively boost abilities if used on a servant/magus/warhose/car/whatever, but only proportional to the abilities they already had - it would be impossible to take a child and have them fight like Hercules; and skill is entirely unaffected); or, if he is unable to rouse an army, simply manifest the Ghosts of the Revolution still willing to fight for the cause.

I mean, I like Nasu, and I like Fate, but I don't like inconsistencies, so I try to find reasonable-ish answers to stuff like this when it gets brought up.

It just bothers me.

Yeah, the assassin thing was more a pride statement on the part of hassan than an actual rule.

With Sabers naturally high riding skill, it would make even less sense for her not to be able to ride a motorcycle. She's basically just short of riding phantasmal and magical beasts, which a motorcycle isn't.

Kojirou was breaking the rules, but that was sorta the point.

Which ones are he grasping at straws with?

They do to me as well.
I remember the 'no eastern servant thing' it was mentioned in a side thing bout zero, basically uro wanted someone like one of the 8 immortals but nasu vetoed with this rule.
Mainly the '7 servant thing' since it is exceptional circumstances, the only reason gil was able to become incarnated was due to the mud which was due to the einzberns cheating in avenger in the 3rd.
I mean the grail can incarnate as they did with solomon in the f/go timeline.
Also apocrypha and strange fake both have 10+ servants.

What's up with Strange Fake anyway, with the Fake and True Servants. Are there two grails, and one is the actual one, while the other is one of those knock-offs mentioned in Apo?

>It's not that they have to be Hassan, it's that if you just summon an Assassin, then the name of the class itself acts as a catalyst for the Hassans. If you have a more powerful catalyst or manipulate the system so that you're not actually summoning Assassin (see: Kojirou, who was just a substitute filling the spot of Assassin), you can summon someone else
>Yeah, the assassin thing was more a pride statement on the part of hassan than an actual rule.
Wrong. There is only Hassan.

In all the wars where someone other than Hassan is summoned, they either abide by different rules (the Moon Cell and Servant Summoning System Fate do not utilize catalysts) or the rules have been fucked beyond the point of functioning (Apocrypha has forbidden the summoning of Hassan, Strange Fake's fake war summoned a fake Hassan).

>What's up with strange fake
It's strange, Nasu's only input on it has basically been "No that's not crazy enough make it bigger!"

I think the "No eastern servants" thing was meant for zero specifically as a rule for the urobutcher.

Frankly, japanese lore is way too interesting and deep to leave out like that.

So what you mean to say is that one dude mentions this, and every other war works by a different system so it can't be proven wrong.

I say fuck you and fuck that. Jack the ripper is easily a european counterpart that only deserves the class of assassin. While the name assassin belongs to hassan-i-sabah, the spirit of the role does not. Assassinations have existed since long before hassan i sabah did. Do you honestly think there were no hired killers before the 11th century?

Thus, i agree with the other guy. The name belongs to assassin, but the role and class do not.

Wait, Servants have to be fed mana by their master to make up for abilities used and heal injuries, right? Wouldn't that mean Jesus couldn't actually do much, since no human would have the mana to power most of his abilities?

If so, that's actually funny in a way. Jesus would just be the peaceful servant that never actually fights, he's just super chill and tries to teach his summoner and anyone else around them to be a good person. Would probably have some ability that fucks up anyone that kills him though.

Other people can fit in the Assassin class, but you flatly won't get one in a system with catalysts. Even with an amazing catalyst and being a powerful magus, you get Hassan. Nasu's own words, he wrote the Einzbern Consultation Room omake.
Something has to interfere with it to make it not happen. I have no idea precisely how the Apocrypha mages banned Hassan, but that worked sufficiently. You can just say "we're not summoning this guy any more" to get others.

Churches have split in wars over the question of how much God is in Jesus. I think the Japanese might find an interpretation that fits.

Kinda like Karna or any other really powerful Servant, really. Them actually fighting means that the Master's gonna have to focus on providing them mana, because otherwise they'll die. Karna in his long fight with Siegfried for instance had to hold back a bunch of his more mana intensive abilities, like Mana Burst (Fire).

Also on this, I really fucking hope we see Brahmastra being used in the anime, because that is the single most hilarious thing I have ever seen from a non-gag fate scene.

Jesus would destroy the Holy Grail War. One of the major themes of Fate is that the very idea of it is as anti-christian as it gets. It's a bloodthirsty war of slaughtering your peers for the sake of satisfying your own greed.
I don't wanna do the "Nasu said this [sourceless thing]" but Extra CCC made it clear that Holy Grails are supremely offensive to Jesus.

Jesus would be a Ruler and no other class, plain and simple.

Jesus would be a Savior, ya git. It's not even in question.

>as usual another Nasuverse thread devolves into Fateposting and powerlevels

Why do people even bother saying "Nasuverse" when all they mean is "Fate"? Is it just to torture the actual people who are fans of the setting? Or is it just to put up a false pretense of "we're discussing the setting w-we swear!!"? We shall never know

Maybe because Tsukihime was released in 1999 and after seventeen fucking years there's not much left to say about it.
And there was never much to say about Kara no Kyoukai to begin with.

Why are we still here? Just to suffer?

Because nasuverse IS fate at this point

Any discussion of non-fate stuff has been done to death, and the setting of fate and the holy grail war is a far more useable setting in the context of tabletop games than tsukihime because unlike tsukihime, fate can be applied to much more broad areas due to the fact that it isn't entirely based around a single family

You can talk about Tsukihime all you like. The amount of discussion about a subject reflects interest in it.

Go on, start some conversation about Tsukihime and talk about it, instead of complaining that there isn't anyone talking about it.

>Assassinations have existed since long before hassan i sabah did.

What makes it worse is that the first legendary Assassin is actually in what is possibly part of the Epic of Gilgamesh or a companion work legends intertwining as they did back then, because everyone knew each other), several thousand years before the hassan-i-sabah.
Said Assassin was the 'Envoy of the Ten Million Eyes God' to the Sumerians and the 'Son of Samael' to the Canaanites, who passed it to the Hebrews and Egyptians who passed it to the Greeks and Romans, the latter of whom decided she was a female and called her Filia Martis the Daughter of Mars [and this somehow got corrupted to AnWar in modern times], which in turn became 'Mors' in early Christian Europe, which in turn would warp into being the Grim Reaper in the 1300s - and it's all supposed to be the same person as now.
Prime big bad or secret hero/ine material with very easy genderswap (just claim the Romans were right), being the first Anti-Hero/Knight Errant, but will probably never be used.

>the holy grail war is a far more useable setting in the context of tabletop games
no it can't. stop spreading lies.