/wfg/ - The Warhammer Fantasy General /wfg/

Then please do post more of that artwork.

Also the winds of magic and thus the forces of chaos are not as strong in the Estalia and Tilea as they are in the Empire and futher north - which is one of the reasons why Estalia and Tilea is not one united nation like Bretonnia and the Empire.

I dont have a lot of art work saved sorry. maybe a few other anons could fill the void?

Estalia had a big problem with vampires centuries ago. Their primary worship is of Myrmidia, who they hold founded their kingdom as a god-queen. The center of their faith and main temple for Myrmidia period is in Magritta. Magritta and Bibali have a long rivalry. Bibali is close to Bretonnia and as a result Bretonnians have been led to believe Magrittans are uncouth and dishonorable. Centuries ago, Araby actually conquered most of Estalia and it hasn't been unified since the Great Crusade drove all those vermin back into the sea.

In the fluff do wizards choose which lore/college they want to do, or are some naturally more inclined to a certain wind, or are they names pulled out of a hat or what?

Battle of Black Fire Pass when?

They're usually naturally inclined - technically, most human wizards can only interact safely with one wind. I think one of the first Patriarchs was considered really special for even being able to see all the Winds of Magic.

Do we still have a link with all archive of Warpstone?

Yeah, some are just naturally better at some winds than others, but other wizards are in their professions by choice, talent, religion, even personality, just various reasons that vary pretty widely.

That last bit was definitely dropped later. The RPG allows chars to see the other winds with magical sense, and Sienna Fuegonosis in Vermintide comments on seeing several winds.

...

I was playing Empire once and Border Princes out of nowhere offered me something like 2k gold to become my vassals.

I wasn't even at war with them or even threatening their borders or anything. It was just completely out of the blue.

The AI in that game can be really fucking random.

It's less that they can't see it anymore and more that they can't draw on more then one safely without a lot of practice.
Like, more practice then a human being has years of life honestly; even most elves can't do that shit.

I thought that the High Winds Elves used was a melding of all the other winds? And that he reason humans don't is because it's extremely dangerous and generally more than a mortal can handle.

What about the elementalists, how they used magic before Teclis came around with Magnus?

>I thought that the High Winds Elves used was a melding of all the other winds?
They do, but the number of elves that are trained at accomplishing this are a tiny fraction of their species due to the difficult involved, and all of them spent centuries figuring out how to do it.
The only elves that CAN do it studied in Ulthuan; the Wood Elves don't use High Magic because they don't have the training program.
>And that he reason humans don't is because it's extremely dangerous and generally more than a mortal can handle.
That is true, but the elves ARE mortal.
It just takes forever to master the skill in question, longer then humans live. Basically, seeing and being able to manipulate the Winds is a far more common skill among elves, but the percentage of elves that can use High Magic is the same percentage of humans that has been properly trained at the Colleges of Magic in Altdorf; a tiny fraction of their species.
>What about the elementalists, how they used magic before Teclis came around with Magnus?
They didn't; Magnus created the Colleges with Teclis's help, and before that humans were limited to hedge wizardry and cheap tricks that were unreliable or just going balls-deep and drawing tons of power to go full Chaos.

It was Teclis that showed humans how to safely manipulate the individual Winds so that they didn't tap into Dhar.
He did this basically to give humanity a fighting chance and because he saw potential in them becoming great allies against Chaos just as they were it's primary source of minions these days.
The Ice Witches are the exception; Teclis didn't teach them and they instead "filtered" their sorcery through their Baba Yaga knockoff to make it less dangerous to use, or at least less likely to make you into a mutant servant of Chaos I suppose.

Not the guy you were responding to, but what's the difference between the Dhar wind used by Chaos, the Dhar wind used by Dark Elves, and the Dhar wind used by the Undead?

>, and before that humans were limited to hedge wizardry and cheap tricks that were unreliable or just going balls-deep and drawing tons of power to go full Chaos

Not true.any cultures had traditions of magic that were reasonable and not Chaotic without the help of a faggoty elf. Nehekhara had its mortuary cult, and Nagash invented necromancy (using elf secrets, granted, but he improved upon the knowledge rather than merely applying it). Araby had a long tradition of binding djinn and using them as soldiers or magic batteries, and Kislev has ice magic, which is free of Chaos's taint, and the hag witches, who deal with non-chaotic spirits and are excellent at sussing out Chaos corruption. Even the Empire had the hedgewise.

Elementalists have not existed since 1st edition; I think nowadays they're mentioned - only mentioned, mind - as being part of the 'wrong thinking' of magical theory. Like alchemy compared to chemistry. If you had to try to work them in as anything, they'd probably be some form of Hedgewise. In their day, I think they drew power from nature itself, sort of like druids, and relied on spirits - earth spirits, air spirits, that sort of thing.

As for the High Elves, they do meld all the winds together, a type of magic called Qhaysh, High Magic. But it's like a rainbow, you have to 'weave' all the winds together. If you tried to brute force it, it'd be Dhar, the Dark Magic used by Dark Elves and Necromancers - that's more a sludge made of mixing colors, you get me? So elves have to take the time to learn each wind before they can put them all together, and that obviously takes a bit of time and training. Elves can do it - they have the lifespan - but but most haven't yet learned to do it, at least not fully.

Application. Dhar comes in two forms, natural (or true) dhar, and standard dhar. True dhar occurs where the winds of magic stagnate and muddy together on their own, and seems to be stronger. This is by far preferred by the druchii, though they can use standard dhar. Chaos wizards frequently use standard dhar, smashing the Winds together with raw will, but don't turn down true dhar. Necromancers do both pretty flexibly, it's no coincidence they set up in 'dhar traps' like Sylvania and Mousillon.

Technically none; it's all the same shit from a "what wind are you drawing on" standpoint, but what changes is refinement and focus.
Warlocks of Chaos and guys like that are just juicing on raw Dhar, channeling the stuff of Chaos directly. It's extremely powerful but highly dangerous, like trying to increase a nuclear reactor's power output by breaking the safeties on it, so most people just die trying to use it and mutate out of control eventually.
"True Dhar" as the druchii call it is the same stuff but highly refined and precise in the sorts of horribly cruelties it can inflict since most elves are more gifted with magic then humans and instead of just reaching out and yanking on whatever power they can find and mashing it up they merge it into a sinister version of High Magic.
Necromancy is actually a derivative of Dhar, and Nagash is directly responsible for creating it, supposedly with the help of some dark elves he met once. He combined what he learned with his study of the Grey Wind of Magic to "stabilize" Dhar into necromancy. Honestly, I imagine the dark elves thought he'd get himself killed, but they basically helped create only of the few beings in the world who can genuinely match their leaders in terms of raw power and certainly the single hardest guy to kill in the setting.

>Honestly, I imagine the dark elves thought he'd get himself killed, but they basically helped create only of the few beings in the world who can genuinely match their leaders in terms of raw power and certainly the single hardest guy to kill in the setting.

Why was Nagash so good at necromancy and magic anyway?

Nagash tortured the info out of the druchii and then executed them in an escape he let them attempt.

Necromancy is Shyish and Dhar. I don't think Ulgu is involved.

Willpower to surpass an elf. Magic is mostly about will.

No special reason.
Nagash was to studying evil magic shit what Sigmar Heldenhammer was to smashing motherfuckers in the face with a huge mallet.
Guy wanted to master death, and he wasn't gonna take some bullshit excuse like "not and elf, can't live long enough" for an answer.

He was a Liche Priest - the High Priest of the Mortuary Cult, in fact. He already had a mastery of magic, just of a home-grown stripe.

I get the Wind colors mixed up.
Violet is Death then? Though that was illusion, my mistake.

So is Nagash still around then?

Yeah.
He is REALLY hard to permanently kill, having died something like three times, four if you include his original mortal death.

, Nagash is ridiculously scary.
He managed to create an entirely new kingdom, created all the vampires and actually was personally responsible for why they can't bear sunlight (they pissed him off), and actually managed to become such a threat that the entire goddamn Skaven Underempire united for the first time in it's history JUST to kill him, and even that didn't fucking stick.

Didn't he perma-die at the hands of Sigmar when he tried to take over the Old World?

Before GW fucked up everything fluff and game wise of course.

Wait, I thought elves were biologically immortal? Can they die of old age?

>Can they die of old age?
They live for 2500 years. Dark elves use blood rituals to sustain themselves.

>Why was Nagash so good at necromancy and magic anyway?

I don't think you know exactly how much of a prick he really is.
He literally will not accept being bad at anything.
His arrogance and ego makes the gods of chaos themselves dumbfounded.

If magic is directly related to sheer will and stubborness than no other wizard could ever match him.
He unironically believes he will conquer the chaos gods and consume their strength one day.

He wont settle for godhood, he wants Godhood.
Big Fucking G!

So, WFRP 4ed and AoSRPG are on their way. What are peoples thoughts? Will WFRP follow the Stor, of Chaos arc, or will it act as the AoS prequel?

No. He was just resting.

Arkhan himself talks about the whispers of Nagash.
His body is broken but his spirit is eternal.
Even the gods of chaos together couldn't claim his soul.

Even AoS, when Chaos wins is the setting. Nagash wills himself back.

I'd kill to see a fight between Nagash in his prime and Asuryan in his prime.

The Sigmar v Nagash fight was cool enough, but I wonder if Asuryan would be able to fully destroy Nagash.

The Chaos Gods together can't claim Nagash's soul and even in the shitty nu-canon he can will himself back, and when Asuryan went on the warpath against them they were literally said to tremble at the wrath he exuded though this may've had to do with the fact he had Khaine's god-killing sword.

Two of the strongest individuals ever in the Warhammer setting and two of the only individuals the Dark Gods ever feared.

Who would win if both were at their maximum peaks?

>Will WFRP follow the Stor, of Chaos arc

We can only hope.

Given the subjective skub of the ET-AoS line and the objective lack of open-ended roleplay in it, I have a feeling they'll do a Fantasy Flight thing and have one book for the FB setting and another for ET/AoS.

You meant Aenarion.

Thanks.

It's almost dawn here and I should've already been asleep.

No, Sigmar just killed him the third time.
He came back again and this time just decided to not get involved directly because that kept biting him in the ass.
Meta-wise he didn't get involved because he arguably outstriped the raw power of nearly every other important character; he's the sort of guy that could grasp his mind around the Chaos Gods and then go "fuck them, I can do that to" and then have a legit shot at it.

I'd like to see an Aenarion-Nagash battle too, though I wonder: who was more powerful between Aenarion and Sigmar? We know both were considered the finest warriors of their races ever, both fucked up Chaos badly, and both had divine-imbued powers and magic weapons.

>Chaos: "WEEP MORTAL AS YOU GAZE UPON THE MIND-SHATTERING GLORY THAT IS THE-"
>Nagash: "Shut the fuck up son."
>CHAOS: "SERIOUSLY, WHY ARE YOU SO FUCKING UNIMPRESSED?"
>Nagash: "I literally shit death and when I die I can 'nope' it off. All you do is disease shit, fuck things, kill things, and drive yourself nuts. Congrats, I managed more while starting out with less."

>laughingfrog.gif

Kroak shits on Nagash

I think Aenerion would probably win because Nagash's track record against superhuman hero-kings with mighty magic weapons is pretty awful so far.
But then Aenerion would get old and die and Nagash would be back in a thousand-odd years again because that's just what he does.
It's hard to say because Sigmar honestly limited his scope a lot more then Aenerion due to his mortal lifespan.
Also, holding onto Nagash's Crown of Sorcery was not good for his health and his throwdown with the Undying seriously messed him up.
Kroak is literally a ghost of his former self but could probably be a threat even now.
First Generation Slann when alive though could literally think real hard at Nagash and just make him NOT BE anymore, so if he were alive that would be a short fight.

What killed all the first gen slann?

Some of Drachenfels stuff seems pretty fitting applied to Nagash these days - seeing the gods as amateurs, for one.

>What killed all the first gen slann?
Daemons.

Their own hubris.

>using AoS fluff as argument

4th ed will follow the storm of chaos lore. Cubicle 9 stated it will be a direct follower of 2nd ed

ET and AoS stuff is its own line, but some ideas and notions can still be used.

In our game, reborn Sigmar lead his forces back into the Chaos Wastes and eventually through the Warp Gates and beyond.

Alright, speculation time:

If they are following SoC lore, what events or changes would you want to see?

What, no.

Elves are biologically immortal. They die of old age only if they litetally get tired of living and decide to die.
There are elves on ulthuan that are more than 5000 years old

Read fluff on hag sorceresses and why they use blood cauldrons.

>but some ideas and notions can still be used.
yeah, in AoS general.

You sound like you wouldn't be fun to game with. Are you one of the guys who get in a fit when people talk about chaos dorfs in space, or skaven vampires?

I would go even before the SoC, like in 1st edition.

But more I hope for ignoring AoS lore. The answers that were given contradicted given troopes and were largely dissapointing.

There is no better way to antagonize community that would actually play it than include it.

>Are you one of the guys who get in a fit when people talk about chaos dorfs in space, or skaven vampires?
Is it even relevant to our discussion?
Meanwhile, shouldn't you paint your new easy to build Sigmarines?

Is the wood elf process of bran-wa-shin still a thing?

They use the blood cauldrons to keep a young appearance, not to remain young. They are immortal, simply don't want to get old

Even Morathi became senile over time, they are not immortal as far as 8th edition goes.

Also how on earth body can be immortal if it ages.

Morathi is 10000 years old. She might have dementia but was nowhere near as dying of old age

She just keep aging. Or ages very slowly and then stops.

I know for a fact that HE lore says elves are immortal and either die in battle or by sickness or die when they consciously decide to die

Maybe DE lore is different for some reason idk

Do you remember where that can be found? Is it just in the army books?

CA said their lifespan is 2500 years on High Elves roster reveal, its latest source.

I'd like see some lore on different time periods, so you can have some source if you want to set your game in the age of the three emperors or the vampire wars

Apart from that, i wouldn't change the actual SoC lore.
Maybe just throw some rumors about how things went. Like, is archaon alive or dead? Did Valten kill him or did they kill eachother? Where even is Valten? Things like this, so one can build his own headcanon

I think it's in the armybooks and even on the wikia
>inb4 wikia is shit
At least it gives sources, look for yourself on the elves page

>CA
I don't think it really matters what CA says. I mean, Malekith is around since the age of Snorri Whitebeard and Morathi was the wife of Aenarion

Whatever man, generally there are two kinds of people in these threads: people who couldn't let go of the old fluff, and people who hated the garbage rules of AoS. I mean, most of us are a little of both, but everyone is a little more of one or the other.

Clearly you're arguing with someone who moved away from AoS more because of the fluff than because of the shyte rules. Just ignore him.

One is sealed inside life support armor while other uses best sorcery to remain alive.

Morathi is basically an elf vampire and the other has advanced power armor and life support systems made by a priest of vaul.

An yway, what are you doing here, if you like new fluff so much?

>Whatever man, generally there are two kinds of people in these threads: people who couldn't let go of the old fluff, and people who hated the garbage rules of AoS. I mean, most of us are a little of both, but everyone is a little more of one or the other.
>An yway, what are you doing here, if you like new fluff so much?
Obviously I hate the new garbagefire that AOS tries to pass off as rules. I thought that was pretty clear from context.... right?

>picture
There is more interesting question, why someone cannot stay in his thread?

>Obviously I hate the new garbagefire that AOS tries to pass off as rules.
I thought they update it to GHB and you all love it, but it's still doesn't answering the question
>what are you doing here
Or should I add caps to the last word?

>I thought they update it to GHB and you all love it,
No. It still sucks. Rules are bad. 6th/7th edition is much better, and even 8th-edition/9th-age is better than that garbage.

>what are you doing here
I was hoping to discuss rules and tactics for 6th/7th edition, though I'd settle for 8th/9th tactics discussion as well. I was thinking of using some neat 28MM gorrilla models to make a Lizardman army, using Gorillas as Saurus, Monkeys as Skinks, and Meditating Orangutans as Slaan.

Side Note: Yeah, I based some Sigmarines on square bases to use Chaos Warriors, because the models are cool. Ghead, be triggered.

>No. It still sucks.
Oh come on little Timmy, you shouldn't talk in that way about GW, or you will be banned on Warhammer Community site.
>because the models are cool.
->

And by the way, I have to aks is that you who offered to merge generals few threads ago?

>Not everyone in the thread thinks exactly like me

Some people like the new models, but prefer the old rules, and unless they're using the models to play KoW (which I have done, good game, and it's nice how model-neutral it is) they're probably playing one of the older editions of WHFB or 9th-age, and so belong her. Get over it and stop whining.
So since, we're on the topic of old editions of WHFB (you know... the topic of the thread) what is your favorite older edition of WHFB?

Mine is 6th. Honestly, as far as tactical depth and balance are concerned, I've yet to find a game that can beat it. It had a few issues: the magic system really only worked at 2000 points, and at that 2000 point sweet-spot, a well-built All-Necromancer "Vampire" Counts army basically didn't ever lose matches, but other than that, very solid ruleset. KoW isn't as tactically deep, but youc an finish a game faster, which is nice.

What about you?

Fuck no. As I strongly implied here I care MUCH more about solid rules, and there's enough of a clusterfuck with functionally 4editions of WHFB competing for tactica-discussion space, we don't need a fifth (and definitely not a fifth that's a flaming turd as far as rules go.)

>Some people like the new models,
And that's was one of the reasons why we separated the threads.

>And that's was one of the reasons why we separated the threads.
And the AoS rules being a boiling pot of syphilis-taited-diarrhea was another one. I take it you migrated because of the former, and I've been pretty open about the fact that I migrated for the latter. BTW, you never answered my question: now that all non AoS rulesets are equally unsupported, leaving us all free to pick our favorite without pressure from Geedubs, what's your favorite?

I didn't expect Drachenfels in TWW.

>Using Sigmarines as Warriors of Chaos
>instead of utilising those chiselled pecs to make the most gorgeous goddamn Slaaneshi Chosen

You sicken me.

But seriously, good work.

>But seriously, good work.
Oh, those aren't mine. Those are clearly based to be used as Ogre Kingoms, or maybe a Beasts-Of-Chaos minotaur-focused armies.

I actually had a much harder time fitting all those musclebound sigmarines onto 25MM bases.

Because I play 6th, I naturally go Mark of Undivided, because tactically speaking, it's just better (in 7th, Slaanesh became the best mark, and with the changes to Frenzy in 8th, Khorne became the best.)

>Because I play 6th, I naturally go Mark of Undivided, because tactically speaking, it's just better (in 7th, Slaanesh became the best mark, and with the changes to Frenzy in 8th, Khorne became the best.)
That's actually one of the other advantages of using Sigmarines as Chaos-Warriors in the modern play-environment. I can change what mark I'm counting them as depending on which edition I'm playing, without having to have a set painted appropriately for each mark.

So, is /wfbg/ ready to settle down and accept that fact that the best version of the Warhammer Lore is the Bloodbowl version?

Sounds good, could be like a Kuresh beastman army.

Awwwww, hels yeah. I can get behind that.

You know, that just made me think
>What sort of justification could we come up with for classic Warhammer armies in the BloodBowlVerse.
And then that got me thinking
>We should make a BloodBowl-Hooligan-Riot skirmish game.

AoS's rules have much bigger issues than the lack of points.

I actually think it's position has become much weaker now that 40K is doing what it did best better, ie. 40K's rules are about as simple but more refined and closer to the last edition. I'm not really sure why anyone would play AoS now other than for the few people who really like the lore and/or models.

>And the AoS rules being a boiling pot of syphilis-taited-diarrhea
It perfectly fits their models and fluff, so I really don't understand why you shitppsting here.

Yeah I thought he was dead at that point because Nagash brings his soul back in the ET?

Maybe it's an emissary? Nice throwback though.