Karkinos Heresy Edition Anything by Blance is DAoT Sub-edition
The GOD MAKER organ was discovered and implanted into many crustaceans by the Totally Not Dracula Backwards organization, who make monsters to fight monsters whilst merrily forgetting they began as humans. Thus, the Crabmarchs are born. Perpetuals are dying in the Story of the Twin Discords, but the one with the most organs will win. Unless they're ugly. It'd make sense if you were in the previous thread >Thread FAQ pastebin.com/iUqNrrA8 (embed)
>30k TACTICA & TIPS What to include in a HH list, how to format it, what makes each legion special (crunch), tactics, Tutorials for Heresy-era minis and more pastebin.com/Tm2P4QLp (embed) ()
Why do people like Sanguinius? >did nothing to put himself on a particularly high pedestal during the crusade >was never noted as brilliant in any respect >got his legs broken by a bloodthirster when fucking LORGAR beat the strongest one >ran off to guilliman >allowed himself to be crown traitor emperor >finally got some sense knocked into him >pulled a leeroy jenkins at terra despite having a legion to call on >died like a bitch, barely accomplished anything >everyone's acknowledged best primarch
Cameron Davis
/thread
Brody Stewart
nice attempt at triggering everyone
Joshua Harris
I guess we're not going on Hiatus, even though this has literally become just a spinoff to 40k general. We're discussing Primarines more than anything 30k.
Isaac Reed
>did nothing to put himself on a particularly high pedestal during the crusade He conquered the shit out of everything he touched. Horus thought he should have been warmaster. Killed a phantom titan with his hands.
>was never noted as brilliant in any respect He was considered either equal to Angron or the best in fighting.
>got his legs broken by a bloodthirster when fucking LORGAR beat the strongest one You mean he got tricked after he had already beaten it? Then proceeded to beat him again barehanded while effortlessly impaling a keeper of secrets?
>ran off to guilliman Didn't really have anywhere else to go. Made the best out of a bad situation.
>allowed himself to be crown traitor emperor And he immediately gave it up after he found a way back to Terra.
>finally got some sense knocked into him What?
>pulled a leeroy jenkins at terra despite having a legion to call on Who needs a legion when you can defend the gates for three days?
>died like a bitch, barely accomplished anything Died for the emps, allowed him to finish off Horus.
>everyone's acknowledged best primarch For good reason. He wasn't an autistic sperg.
6/10, got me to make this autistic post.
Liam Torres
[REDACTED] was lost to the Rangda, probably corrupted alongside a sizeable portion of his legion. Thus it fell on the Wolves of Fenris to destroy him. The remnants of his legion, the honour guard left guarding [REDACTED]'s homeworld and marines scattered on expeditionary fleets, were recalled towards Ultramar That's why it is recorded the Ultramarines weren't in Rangda, when in fact they were. Using the false information of them being safely away the increase in the legion's ranks can be explained, instead of the logical conclusion that they adopted the [REDACTED] legion's orphans. This was correctly guessed by Dorn, a discovered of truths who is obtuse enough that lie cannot reach him (he could also routinarily identify the real Alpharius where Horus couldn't) As it is written, the whole Rangda Xenocides introduced the idea that Primarchs could be corrupted, and these news didn't escape the Emperor, who took appropiate measures First, he erased the memory of the Primarchs and installed a fake one in their minds (not unlike how he made them forget Molech), swearing to keep a secret that never happened. This is why not even the traitor Primarchs break the oath of silence to the Emperor: because they remember the feeling of having to keep a secret but not the actual secret. There is simply nothing to say Furthermore, the Emperor worked on both ways to prevent coruption (the outlawing of all sources of psychic power among legions) and ways to remove and heal it This cure proved right when Alpharius was found (which was AFTER Rangda), corrupted as well by the nightmarish Slaught. But the Emperor was able to both rescue and rehabilitate him, although scars both physical and mental remained, which is why a failsafe (Omegon) and efforts to lessen his legion's dependence on him (One Among Many) were implemented, as well as the whole truth-removing operation surrounding him This is why Emps wanted Horus brought before him (albeit under the pretense of execution). To heal him
Brayden Adams
You wanted proofs. 'ere
Bentley Perry
What happened to the other one?
Christopher Morris
Got stuck in a toilet which is why not even the traitors talk about him.
Cameron Bennett
HH3 says something about the dangers of recruiting from tainted sources, citing that the failure and loss of [REDACTED] at this point. This might be related to what happened in pre-Unification Siberia, where the non-compliant unleashed warp and, allegedly, daemonic weaponry.
Logan Campbell
How is Mechanicum to play? Is a Castellax and myrmidon heavy list viable?
Isaiah Ortiz
>book is an in-universe artifact >redacts information about the two lost legions but not all the Chaos primarchs Why bother? It's not like they could have done anything worse.
William Anderson
There is no proof there at all, just wild speculation.
More importantly the use of [REDACTED SECTION] between Legions and lost implies that a fair amount of information was removed and Inferno confirms in the very next paragraph that the Space Wolves earned their "executioners" nickname from the decade-long post-Rangdan genocidal purges that they and the First were tasked to perform across whole sectors of human worlds to ensure the threat was ended.
tl,dr: You got rused by FW.
Michael Walker
We know who's the writer...but we don't know who's supposed to be the reader. After all, isn't [REDACTED] kinda like "you don't have enough clearance"? The second one is speculation. The one about Rangda is stating definite facts, like how it was by the Randgan Brain Eaters hand and how Emperor ended it by taking stuff from the Noctis Labrynth.
Isaiah Rivera
Because the Emperor is a barely living corpse on a life support toilet, and is too busy screaming a galactic lighthouse into space to spare the time to lower the security clearances on II and XI or increase those on Horus' gang.
The bureaucracy is just following the rules and making sure to dot the i's and cross the t's. Because being a bureaucrat isn't about doing what makes sense, it's about doing what the rules say you do.
Andrew Garcia
>the Space Wolves earned their "executioners" nickname from the decade-long post-Rangdan genocidal purges that they and the First were tasked to perform across whole sectors of human worlds to ensure the threat was ended. Tfw the Space Wolves are the Emperor's Executioners...or REGULAR MORTALS. Gee, such a difficult job! Only the Space Wolves would be able to do it! Also the First but let's exclude them. Oh, and that Ethnarch from the Yndonesic bloc, doing pogroms without even using Space Marines. Muh dog-genes.
Caleb Phillips
To be fair, it was originally supposed to be an insult. They spent a whole decade murdering innocent Imperial civilians just in case, they were not looked highly upon for it.
Nathan Morris
>Why do people like Sanguinius? Because he is bishonen twink.
Evan Turner
Yes, but you do need transports for those Myrmidons, and only Castellax means you cannot score.
Josiah Ramirez
Maybe everything that could be said was said already? Nothing relevant is going to come for a year anyway. At least we memed about and got angry together.
Cameron Cox
>a galactic lighthouse into space to spare the time to lower the security clearances on II and XI or increase those on Horus' gang.
The Choir create the Light. The Emperor just guides it.
Jack Brown
Tribune Ixion Hale and Companions.
Nearly done. I couldn't have thought painting gold is this much fun, honestly.
Henry Young
Really liking the glistening red on the shoulderpads. Gives a bit of variety to the model and looks regal. Maybe expand it to a few gems on the armour to tie it all together?
Noah Garcia
Looking good, fellow custodian. Really tempted to get Ixion Hale as well. The model is so good, but even the cheapest one on ebay is, like, €80. Looking forward to working on these fuckers some more.
Liam Jenkins
Paid 45 quid for Ixion.. Worth every penny though.
Adam Cook
The book was written after the Heresy, so it's possible those records were expunged before it, thus there were no records to write about.
Hunter Myers
>45 quid for Ixion Man, I am envious. Ebay only offers me Ixion to import from the UK for ~80€ or 'pro-painted' shit for ~200€. I guess I'll just need to bear it and pay that much him and the Errant-Questor for AoS.
Nicholas Garcia
Does anyone have the archive of these Horus Heresy General header images or knows who makes them?
I find them to be legit hillarious.
Easton Flores
How can any of the other legions even come close to matching this sort of power? What was FW thinking when they wrote this?
Cooper Parker
>thread is 8 hours old >only 30 posts >literally less than 5 posts per hour
It's over. Let's let it die for a week, then bring it back, see what changes, hmm?
Kevin Cox
> Let's let it die for a week, then bring it back, see what changes, hmm?
Like that's going to do anything. It's astounding how swiftly and thoroughly FW trashed their own game with the insane decision to stick with 7th. HH is in a coma until they move with the times, the only hope is that they quickly see the folly of their ways and act to rectify it before matters become terminal. There's nothing any of us can do to revitalise /hhg/ until they do that.
Parker Gutierrez
Horus is almost killed by the grav weapon in Horus rising, emperor is almost nuked, they try to poison the emperor but the rogue trader is killed, also most civilisations they fight are backward and terra is unique
Joseph Robinson
>60 of 300 >more than 10% of the legion in a single engagement
Nathan Richardson
Except you know making our own port to 8th
Brayden Mitchell
>60 of 300 Any particular reason you think this?
Elijah Baker
Okay, hear me out here. Chymeriae Blackshields using the new Primaris: - Captain - Reaver-Lord - Librarians, Ancients, Apothecaries and Chaplains - various Consuls - Intercessors and Reivers - Marauders - Redemptor dread - Leviathan dread - Inceptors - two squads joined as one squad of Destroyers and a Moriat - Hellblasters - Tactical Support squad - Lieutnants - Veterans
Not sure what to do with the Gravis Captain and the Agressors, but the rest should work well enough.
Hudson Thompson
>own port Remind me again how well 9th Age is doing.
Jaxson Martinez
>Primaris as Blackshields nice meme :^)
Nathaniel Perry
I'm not sure staying in 7th is that big a deal; it's simply that 40k is hyped up right now. I bet 99% of 30k players either play or used to play 40k, and many of the latter left because 7th ed (the meta more than the rules) was a clusterfuck. Now there's hope in the 41st millennium, so it's natural that everyone still interested in 40k is taking a look.
Remember how hyped Shadow War Armageddon was? That totally petered out. (I blame not keeping the Necromunda campaign rules - the new ones are terribly dull, and it's too easy to buy all the equipment you want.) Among people who play both 30k and 40k, a milder version of that will happen eventually.
Okay, there is one problem - we'll probably get fewer new Heresy players from the 40k pool, both because of the very different rules, and because 40k doesn't suck as badly. But that isn't a huge factor in short-term forum activity.
Henry Williams
Didn't seem to help them much on Prospero.
Daniel Nelson
Who really wants to play a 28mm scale army against a 32mm army? Awkward for both players, imo.
Blake Hughes
>The engagement was not the decisive victory sought by the Iron Warriors, with both the loyalist and traitor fleets suffering significant losses in equal measure... Following the Imperial Fists withdrawal, Perturabo smashed the consoles on the bridge of the Iron Blood in a fit of temper when it became clear that his forces escaped defeat only because of the Retribution Fleet's sudden suicidal withdrawal.[3c] >In the months after the battle, Perturabo became increasingly saturnine and volatile, to the point where even his closest captains could not be sure of his favor or the rationality of his judgments. One sure way to provoke the primarch's rage, Forrix later remarked to Barban Falk, was to speak of the Imperial Fists in any terms other than hatred and contempt.[6]
Xavier Nguyen
The Blood Angels and White Scars co-pioneered the Librarius project. I imagine they'd also be able to gather a few dozen librarians, even if not as easily.
Oliver Turner
Thats where my second question comes in. Why would FW write that story when its shown when they needed to uses their powers they were useless?
Can you think of another story where any librarians are depicted as being that powerful? Grey Knights vs Angron on Armageddon perhaps.
Wyatt Adams
Yeah, sure, because homebrews do so well. It's a holdover, but it won't stop the rot.
I'd say that the greater obstacle is that 99% of 30k players know that 7th edition is/was an overcomplicated mess of a game, and one of the big appeals of the heresy was that it offered a more balanced and playable version of it. Aside from a few vocal grognards, everybody recognises that 8th provides that, much more so than 30k. So long as it remains in 7th there is next to no reason for any of the players who have lost interest to return, and unless they're lured into coming back soon, many of them will never do so.
Xavier Mitchell
Didn't they have 300 before Magnus Because LMAO Persians have a spartan theme
Adam Ward
>7th edition is/was an overcomplicated mess of a game I keep seeing this as a complaint but other than the psychic phase there is very little complicated with the 7th rules.
Yeah you have to check rules now and then but it's a fucking war game representing armies facing each other, if you want a simple game to play then go buy snakes and ladders or something.
Nathaniel Bennett
No the lowest they got down to was 1000 at the time when Magnus 'found' his cure.
Nathaniel Diaz
Emperors Children were at 300 at some point before they found Fulgrim.
Jace Nelson
>a billion rules exceptions >flyer shittery >arbitrary walker/monster distinction >endless minor rules >slow cover mechanics and templates >stupid psychic bullshit I could go on.
Dominic Robinson
Half of what you mentioned isn't even complicated, rules exceptions and minor rules are the same point and I've already mentioned the psychic phase.
Basically your complaint is having to remember stuff, and you are massively exaggerating how bad that is.
Yes the game wasn't perfect but it's no way near as bad as is suggested. People are pretending that they are actually sitting about for half the game checking rules which is false unless the platers are either retarded or a rules sperg, and sperges are sperges in any edition.
Daniel James
So I'm confused on something. Pride of the Legion means I can't take allies.
But does that mean they can be the allied force instead?
Charles Robinson
Yeah, any "can't take allies" RoW can be taken AS allies.
Ian Bell
Well, considering just how well received 8th is there must be something about it that appeals to people quite a lot.
Daniel Turner
>cross referencing multiple books, each hundreds of pages long, in order to do the simplest of things
Sure, you could learn all the rules and USRs off by heart and play the game based on memory, but it's a lot to memorise, and full of tedious interactions and exceptions. One of the biggest improvments in 8th is just paring the rules down to the extent that, armed with a 15 page rulebook (half of which is example turns and the like) and a couple of datasheets, you have all the info you need for a game. There's an actual chance that a normal human being could learn to play in a couple of games. Smoothing out the proliferation of unit types into a single profile and the introduction of keywords straightens out a lot of potential disputes and removes a huge amount of issues which used to cluster around how to interpret GW's haphazard rules writing.
Essentially, you are the vocal grognard I mention in , and nobody agrees with you.
Carter Sanders
>there must be something about it that appeals to people quite a lot.
ah, the argument of the contard
"lots of people LOVE casual shit, it must be good"
Austin Morgan
>cross referencing at most three books, each hundreds of pages long (but most of that is fluff and pictures), in order to do only the most complex of things Depends entirely on what you consider simple but you are exaggerating the issue.
>Essentially, you are the vocal grognard I mention in >opposing views make you a grognard
>and nobody agrees with you. There are many complaints about the 8th edition, it got a lot of things right but also got a lot wrong.
>Insane amount of USRs >Some of which are literally just combined versions of other USRs, like zealot >Unit types split into autistically specific categories with their own specific little rules that have almost no bearing on the game in 90% of situations >Fucked up armor system in which vehicles of all types are explicitly shittier than monstrous Creatures for no reason >good awful psychic system in which 70% of powers we're completely useless and the other 20% were game breaking powerful >God awful warlord trait system in which 90% of them were completely useless and 10% were game breakingly powerful >Ridiculous and arbitrary rules for charging that made almost all melee armies shit against shooting armies >Fucked up mission types like Purge the Alien which were could be auto-losses or wins depending on the players' army comps
And this is all just off the top of my head. 7th was completely fucked.
Nathaniel Bennett
>mortars, artillery guns, and tanks can now sometimes only kill about 2 people from a 50 man horde standing in the open >mechanized and deep strike armies will always get to go first forever and have a distinct advantage the entire game >deep striking is safe and there is literally no reason not to do it >a taurox prime can fire 2 autocannons, a 20 shot gatling cannon, and a storm bolter from an antenna >lasguns wound Land Raiders >flamers are good anti-air >Defender allocatteres all casualties, but casualties can spillover to models out of range and line of sight. A Stormraven can wipe out a 10-man Guard squad if it can draw a line from its wingtip to a single model in the squad. >Hope you enjoy spamming Smite. >guilliman can stand behind a guardsman and not be shot And this is all just off the top of my head. Lets not pretend that 8th is the best thing since sliced bread, it has it's share of problems, its just that it fixed the bad stuff with 7th. It also replaced the good stuff as well, sometimes with bad stuff.
Charles Hill
>unironically playing Custodes AND Stormcast How much of a pleb can one man be?
James Lewis
This is pretty decent
Gavin Cooper
>guilliman can stand behind a guardsman and not be shot I don't get this criticism at all. He can stand in a blob of imperial army dudes and not get shot in 30k (given, you know this is the 30k general) so why is it weird that that can happen in 8th edition 40k?
As for the deep striking thing, let's not pretend drop pod deep strike (which is all anyone ever uses) carries any risks. If anything the rule that half the enemy army must start on the table is one I'd like to see brought into 30k; null-deply/alpha-strike is fucking boring to play against once you've faced it two or three times.
Carson Fisher
Another user here, I think you're underestimating how much of a hassle it is to remember stuff over the years when things are changing every edition.
>rule is worded one particular way in the 6th edition rule book >my 5th edition codex modifies/interacts with that rule in a certain way >my 6th edition codex is released and is changed/worded differently, resulting in a slightly different interaction >the 7th edition rule book is released and is changed/worded differently, resulting in a slightly different interaction >my 7th edition codex is released and is changed/worded differently, resulting in a slightly different interaction Add in eventual FAQs in between steps, plus your opponent's rules affecting your own rules and it slowly becomes impossible to remember which version is how it currently works.
This can happen in 8th as well but the difference is that it'll be "codices with many rules referencing a rule book with few rules" rather than "codices with many rules referencing a rule book with many rules", reducing the risk of multiplicative complexity.
Aiden Collins
I agree with plenty of those, but compared to the shitfest that was 7th they are mostly tiny, tiny problems.
>Things like artillery just need an update of weapon profiles (to be something like D6 autohits per 10 models in the unit or something), not a rewriting of the core rules. >Lasguns really aren't that much of a threat to land raiders. >So what about the taurox prime? It's just one unit. >Flyers are a bit of a pain, there's no simple fix, immunity to autohits would have been sensible. >Abstractions about positioning are worth it for how much it speeds up and smooths out moving models. >Just kill the guardsman.
Cameron Allen
Huh, not bad user, not bad at all. Is there any word on Legion Special rules and how they would interact with 8th ed?
Jose Nelson
>templates aren't good The same could happen before with scatter And artillery tends to just wound not scatter irl If only plasma had been changed an edition ago then we wouldn't have retarded grav
Jaxon Cooper
Did you make this user
Camden Collins
They've said that they want to see exactly how Chapter Tactics and Stratagems work in the upcoming SM codex before they try their hand at Legion-specific rules.
A(nother) prime example why prequels are retarded and should be avoided.
Isaiah Sanders
What do we actually know about the Rangda, apart from that they were hard as nails to fight?
Julian Murphy
Can Dante of Blood Angels punch a titan?
Jacob Stewart
But think of all the time you spent happy whilst playing heresy If that Titan is about to break the golden gate (b)ridge Yes
Caleb Parker
Can we make a pastebin of all people's attempts at 8th ed heresy with the key points of each system Well paint sold more than fantasy so ...
Liam Gutierrez
Huh, yeah I suppose thats true; not how I would approach the objective, but its a respectable choice. Honestly I would leave specific legion rules as close to what they are currently, however initiative is scuttled so that changes the EC, Sallies, SoH, and likely a few others that I cant remember due to lack of sleep
Carson Perez
He can give it a go, certainly, but he's only got S4 fists and 6 attacks while the flimsiest of titans has 35 T9 wounds, so he'll be beating his hands on it for a while.
Aaron Richardson
>But think of all the time you spent happy whilst playing heresy
We've had HH era games before, they're not the problem. Problem is when they try to spin a detailed narrative and explain things, or just shove references in there to make them even deeper than they need to be. And then you have to handwave an problems that rise from this.
Samuel Flores
But if he is in a ruin the titan can't attack back
Julian Williams
>EC >lodge duellists >select one of the following rules per unit, do not reveal the options until the enemy charges >1. The baiter >if an enemy unit charges this unit, this unit strikes first instead >2. Special strike >if this unit wounds a tank, double all wounds taken by the taken Salamanders would lose the 'chargers strike first' bonus What even do sons of Horus have
Robert Cooper
Did you read last months battlereport, a knight can't attack units on the gangwalk above it
Isaiah Cox
Don't try writing rules ever again
Dylan Lewis
Taken by the tank How could I best improve upon my writing technique for matters concerning rules for specific legiones astartes
Chase Flores
Both those rules are awful. In the great majority of cases the EC would just pick option 1, which is hella strong. On the flip side, Salamanders would be fucked in combat six ways 'til sunday.
Ayden Fisher
>How could I best improve upon my writing technique for matters concerning rules for specific legiones astartes Rules writing is more an art than a science, some people just can't.
Lucas Sullivan
Why is Angron not the best straight up combat Primarch? Horus I can understand, but Russ? Or fucking Gulliman? Hopefully if he gets Daemon-rules he'll be the murder machine he was born to be.
Why is there no Sangarius alt!Heresy?
Isaac Jenkins
Ashkually, in 8th if the model doesn't have a base (and many people don't put their titan model on a base) you measure from the closest point of the model's hull. Given the rough height of marines on the top of ruins, this presumably means a warlord titan will be pelvic thrusting them to death. >it's thrusting time >no princeps no
Grayson Butler
puts those Imperator dick cannons in a whole new light.
Juan Phillips
Because in the lore he isn't.
Ayden Bailey
Angron was always just a roidragemarine even in the earliest lore. His playstyle even reflects this as he has notoriously destroyed whole dreadnought talons and Leviathans in gameplay.
Adam Thompson
Didn't he beat Russ and Gulliman in a straight up fight? Not sure how that doesn't qualify him as King Ass-Kick of Murder Mountain
Cooper Rodriguez
In terms of just writing technique, I'm going to be charitable and guess English isn't your first language.
Nathan Howard
To further on this, initiative is gone, there's no point in trying to recreate bonuses that applied to it. I'd reckon on EC getting a charge bonus instead, something like a reroll of one dice, alongside an ability to reroll advances and extra consolidation distance, to emulate the crusader USR. Perhaps added to a bonus to battleshock against units they charge. Something along those lines.
Salamanders aren't even that hard - they get ATSKNF (reroll on battleshock), and reduce advance and charge distances by 1". Perhaps immunity to things which can reduce their Ld. Essentially identical to their current rules (amd kind of the opposite of EC).
SoH aren't that challenging either - Death Dealers stays the same, and Merciless Fighters can be easily recreated (SoH units can carry out an additional attack after all other attacks in the fight phase in any combat where they outnumber their enemy). Now that you don't roll for reserves Edge of the Spear is useless, though either that doesn't matter, or 30k ought to have rolling for reserves 7th-style (AL rely on it quite a lot).
Nolan Perry
Russ jobbed to him while his boys clobbered Angron's boys to show the value of teamwork, and Angron couldn't take a hint. Guilliman isn't a melee master in the first place.
Aaron Roberts
>Russ Whilst Russ had him surrounded and all minions killed off Like losing your queen to force a checkmate >guilliman Lost it even with Lorgar ascended's help
Jonathan Morales
HOLY SHIT WOLFKEKS FUCKING ANNIHILATED
Lincoln Cruz
>Doubles event The fuck is this.
Ethan Miller
You go with a friend and play warhammer together An alien concept to the sons of Russ and Guillman
Bentley Clark
>Guilliman isn't a melee master in the first place Ah, I double checked the Mathhammer and it looks like Angron beats him anyway, my bad. But Russ didn't lose the duel on purpose. I won't dispute he out manoeuvred Angron and proved his point (even if Big A didn't get it), but he got the shit kicked out of him because of it.
>Lost it even with Lorgar ascended's help Lorgar hindered him deliberately to make Angron mad enough to become a Daemon. "He locked Angron’s muscles, setting fire to the synapses in his brain. He stole the chance at a killing blow, fuelling the World Eater’s rage even higher."
