T'au Disscusion Thread Edition (I)V?

Just recieve 30 Flamer bits yesterday. Gonna paint them and put them on my 18 magnetized suits.

Mono weapon suits gets pretty damn expensive, and while suits are tough, they aren't THAT tough. It just seems like too much of a points sink. If I need a fusion drop squad, rather than do 9 fusion blasters (for 315), I'd rather do 6 fusion blasters, 2 flamers, and a velocity tracker for that little +1 bs edge that comes up more often than you would think, and some overwatch and help with hordes (for 272).

It's just me though. Monoweapon suits were really the ideal way to go in 7e, but I think with 8e, 2 weapons and a flamer is back.

I was just wondering about making a thread like this.
Did anyone get the new starter box sets? Cause apparently there might be some new lore in it for different factions?

To be clear, are we talking about optimal listbuilding, or fluffy listbuilding? Because at the moment, the optimal fusion-drop is hands-down the fusion quadmander, which is simultaneously cheaper and more effective than the squad you list. I recognize that commander-spam is lame though, and hope it gets patched soon.

As far as balancing cost and durability goes, that is an interesting factor. Fusion drops are going to essentially be suicide troops to begin with, so I suppose the question is what is the bare minimum firepower to assure a likely kill of whatever you're dropping them on.

8th edition Veapids, yay or nay?

Yay. Good MEQ killers.

>With the velocity tracker, you only need one on a suit to deal with anything with the fly keyword

Oh shit
That makes Tau really able to to spank
Tag with 1 ML for 3+ reroll 1s and now we're talking

Throw em in overwatch

Hey guys, just wanted to add:

I

fucking

love

hazard teams.

3 suits, all with dual burst cannons, and each with an ATS.

Drop them 18" away from shit, then let your enemy eat 48 s5 ap-1 shots. Let them charge you, dare them. With -2 to their charge range and that heady overwatch, most think twice. All this on 5w crisis suits.

This beloved forgeworld unit is better than ever, guys.

MEQ?

Marine-EQuivalent unit. Three of the main test-dummies for damage calculations are GEQ (Guard Equivalent), MEQs, and TEQ (Terminator-Equivalent).

Pretty much all my suit teams that can take it (not just crisis) do, because fly is on so much more than just flyers.

I've seen HEQ thrown about a bit recently, what are HEQs?

I'm not familiar with that one.

homosexual equivalent

so pretty much eldar

Predictions on Strategems? Looking through the Farsight supplement, there were planetstrike strategems of which some I bet might get brought over

And one Broadside with a VT for a team of flier fuckers

>forgeworld unit

kys

>being mad at FW
what is this, 5th edition?
>Homosexual Equivalent
>Not Dark Angels
try harder user

I think he was referring to the post being about a forgeworld unit, but the picture is not forgeworld.

It isn't. I tried kitbashing my own hazards back in 6th edition because I didn't want to buy the original models. And that was the result. But I rarely got to play with them. But now I try to squeeze them in every list I can make, they're just too good.

Another thing to mention about hazards, they are elites now, which is a perplexing choice so they do compete with stealths, crisis, and ghostkeels now, but it's not like foc slots are an issue anymore

?

3 Hazards, 2xATS, 1x VT
That'd be nasty against too

While I normally like to stick a vt on any suit unit, I still go all ATS. The -1 ap is too good on all their shots, and it's just easier for rolling

bruh those conversion are so good you actually had me fooled until I replied to this post that they were kitbashed and net legit

Thanks man. One of my earlier conversion projects. Used the old crisis kit. I even did a guide on how I did it here:
>bitsaddiction.blogspot.com/2014/12/xv9-hazard-suit-how-i-did-it-part-1.html?m=0

Those FW FAQs
The HH variants are decent now having got like a 20 percent points drop
Shark now works and gives a cheap source of Macro weaponry

How are Remora Drone since the faq ?

still terribad, never worth taking over a team of stealthsuits, might have been ok-ish if seekers were good but seekers are trash so until they get rebalanced by IA14 they're unusable

Unchanged

Which RIptide Variant is best?
How is Tau'nar?

xv109
Inferior to warhound but still good

best loadout for tau'nar?
best systems for XV109, was thinking ATS and either target lock or stimulant injector

Why are Fire Warriors cheaper than Kroot?

Kek

Found the HEQ

xv109 has lots of good system.
Taunar is pretty balance with all options. it depends. what you want to do with it.
Maybe heavy railgun slightly worse than other 2

(Low key OP here but also total scrub)

Probably gonna go with the 2 FB, Flamer ATS/VT depending on who I go against.

What's the current commander build? Quad FB? I only want either my crisis or my commander to be anti tank, and the other be anti infantry/flyer.

Next I want a ghostkeel, but what's their build?

arent you that faggot that RPed as an ork unboxing that?

Everyone likes the Y'Va

As far as Crisis vs Commanders go, a single commander costs about 30 more points for the body alone, which after the cost of weapons, will likely be around a 40% cost increase. For that, you have a BS 2+ instead of 4+, which means you go from 3/6 to 5/6 shots hitting, a 60% increase in firepower; and you have a fourth hardpoint, which will be either a 33% or 50% firepower increase depending on if you had two or three weapons before. All that AND the Commander can now hide behind other units due to Character status, and has the nifty Mont'ka/Kauyon buff.

The result of all this math is that, at-present, using Crisis for anything other than triflamer suits (which disregard the Commander's BS increase and thus are more efficient on Crisis) is strictly inferior to a Commander set up in an equivalent way.

As far as what to do with Commander, there's a number of viable builds. Fusion quadmander is the one that gets talked about the most because it's such an effective vehicle-popper, but it's essentially a suicide drop, ideally relying upon a Homing Beacon from a stealth team to drop straight into melta range. I'd say the second most popular build is 3*MP+ATS, which is a much safer platform for sustained damage against heavies.

Sweet baby Jesus. I hope you have a lot of Guard and Orks in your meta.

far right of that pic. Is that a suit converted into a Railhead? Looks like it has devilfish engines on a mech.

looks like a converted storm surge.

Agreed

>warrior caste who are born to be sent into battle vs mercenaries who need to be paid.
lol actually i dunno. since mechanics wise you're right firewarriors are way better.

different question.

do you guys drill out any barrels i just find pulse rifles/carbines so thin and i find the wierd box shape of the grenade launcher kinda awkward to drill out so i never did it. just wondering what you guys do.

The only people who care about drilling out barrels are Space Marine players.

okay good, because I've already started painting.

bloodofkittens.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/ETC-2017-Complete-Team-Lists.pdf

So now that marksman are the beat thing with commander, do we just spam them ?

yes

Only thing that needs to be drilled is probably burst cannons

and strategem guesses?

Pls something good for Bork'an. I'm worried, because Bork'an is on that line between being one of the major septs which will get special rules, and one of the obscure ones which won't.

Bork'an are scholarly; how does that translate into a special rule? Maybe units get more benefits from MLs? Or bonus command points or something?

Allied races mysteriously die of plague special rule

That would actually be interesting;
"Mysterious Plague - Enemy units within 12" of any of your units are treated as having -1 T"

Not quite the scholarly flavor I picked Bork'an for, but would be interesting.

Scholarly research + Mysterious plague = Virulent warfare

it makes sense.
just add in.
>No Kroot or vespid can be taken with Bork'an sept

>Wound most infantry on a 2+ and wound heavy armour on a 3+ with quadmannder
Nice

Yeah, I could see it working.

It would be a pretty significant buff, though if range was handled that way, it would weirdly incentivize more short-range units. Plasma-rifle suits, fusion suits, and *gasp* Breachers would all get boosts. I'd actually be down for that, as it requires more careful maneuvering, which is in line with their tactical reputation.

It was mentioned in some of the codices that they often have more experimental weapons due to being the site of top RnD labs in Tau Empire. So maybe point discount for special weapons, or some unique signature system option for the commander.

Rail rifles for infantry

If only. I doubt that they'll be changing wargear options for units, at least not wargear with physical pieces. I could see a special signature system, though, or something that otherwise boosts signature/support systems. Would be badass if Crisis Shas'vre got a bonus hardpoint only for a support system, or something like that. I doubt it, though.

3x Flamer and ATS on every flamsis suit?

I did suggest only adding the hardpoint to the Shas'vre, not every crisis, as an extra hardpoint is a substantial upgrade. Naturally, I also hope our codex will fix the current internal balance issues between crisis suits and commanders such that something other than straight triflamers is viable.

It may be of interest that I've decided to re-make the damage and cost calculations for T'au, in order to both cover ALL units (I initially covered only those I considered either most common or most interesting), and to much more thoroughly explore the various Crisis/Commander options. I may also include an experimental cost-calcs table where I fiddle around with alternate body-costs for commanders and crisis to see what would put both in usable but distinct places. Keep your eye out, I hope to have it done in the next week.

Sounds sweet

Tau will probably get a nice and nasty Overwatch rule for a . Maybe something simple like hit on 5+ or something more complex like Overwatch range manipulation letting them maybe Overwatch stuff with flamers if a charge passes within 8'' of the flamers even if they started over 8'' away.
That might be fun, setting up a hallway of flamers, I want to burn everything.

All I really want is my signature systems back. I just want my cheap power fist for my commander back most of all!

I'm 99% sure that signature systems are making a come back, and the onager gauntlet is almost certainly among them. I'm more interested about what's happening to Farsight Enclaves and their unique systems. Are things like the Fusion Blade still a thing?

Probably. We will have to see the space marine codex to see how they handle the different chapter tactics, and if they have their own unique wargears.

For the onager gauntlet, I am thinking it will look something like this:
Strength x2, AP -4, Damage D6, The bearer can make a maximum of one attack with the Onager Gauntlet each turn (any remaining attacks must be made with a different melee weapon).

For Crisis-Suit calcs, I'm covering the following:
Base
Reroll 1's (MT/1 ML/Storm of Fire)
ATS
VT vs Flyer
5 ML
ATS + 5 ML
VT vs Flyer + 5 ML

I think that covers all the main circumstances, the main ones missing being reroll-1's+ATS or VT. I'm wary about clogging up the sheet by having half of it just be about crisis suits; do you think the current set is sufficient, should I add more scenarios, or should I replace one or more of the current with other options?

Couple questions:

With the combination of VT and 5 markerlights, you could hypothetically get regular crisis to BS 2+ against flyers, couldn't you? How effective is this, compared to using commanders?

Things like markerlights say that they help an attacking friendly unit, not necessarily a shooting one. Similarly, unarmed melee has a weapon profile in the BRB, so it benefits from ATS, doesn't it? Has anyone tried a list based around ATS suits running around punching things that have been saturated in markerlights? Sounds like it'd be pretty funny, though probably not terribly effective.

Good

Maybe the Onager should get a way to do mortals do on a certain roll

Brightsword
A:3 WS2+
Str 8 AP-4 Dd6 roll 2 die and discard lowest for damage
On a hit roll of 1, at the end of the phase the Fusions are no longer usable

You may take allies from other factions, but they must all begin the game on the battlefield, holding any units you want in manta strike, and you may manta strike the entire rest of your army only as soon as all the allies are dead.

operation hide behind the darkies is a go!

probably not as efficient as a commander

Need help coming up with Commander and Crisis loadouts to run numbers for later.

So far I've got-
Commander:
4*FB
3*MP+ATS
3*Flamer+ATS
3*BC+ATS
4*PR

Crisis:
Basically 3* of each type of weapon
2*MP+VT
2*BC+Flamer?

Looks good
For Crisis, consider 1 model with VT and others with other support systems against

Oooh, I missed that VT applies to the entire unit, not just the model in question. That does open some options.

2x(2*MP+ATS)+(2*MP+VT) sounds like a nice combo.

For cost-calculations on things like FW strike teams, I'm including lines for 1 ML and 5 ML, and including costs for those markerlights to simulate the cost of pathfinders to place them. I'm currently adding 8pts for each used ML, which is the assumption that two units on average will be fairing at an ML'd target, and that pathfinders are the average means of placing markerlights (8ppm, 0.5 MLs/turn average), which gives [16pts per ML]/[2 units using each ML]=8pts/ML. Does that sound fair?

Keep it separate and off to the side, don't add it into the unit cost. But something to be noted, as it is shared by an army

Alright taubros. Is a ghostkeel worth the points? What has been your experience using one?

Off to the side where exactly? The issue is that if I do not directly include a cost in the efficiency table, it makes the table misleading as it'll simply show that yes, MLs make units shoot better. The point of the table is to figure out not how much the unit in question does under what circumstances, but rather the ratio between that damage and the cost of the unit, which then means the cost of units buffing it as well. This is why, for example, the Kroot line factoring in the Shaper buff includes, at the moment, half the cost and half the damage of the Shaper itself, representing that you should be able to buff two units of Kroot Carnivores with a single shaper, thus splitting the cost.

So what I'm trying to do right now is figure out what a fair cost per ML is to assign to cost-efficiency lines which factor in MLs having been placed on the target. The primary factor for this is how many units you have which benefit from the MLs, as that's how many ways their cost is being split. There's also the small secondary factor of where the MLs are coming from, as DC'd up ML drones will be a bit less cost-efficient, but I think just using PFs for that purpose is fair.

From what I've read most people think it is great

As commanders lel

i picked T'au as my first army and this is what ive chosen. Im extremely new so please be gentle

Cool way of organizing.

1. Fluff-wise, it's a bit strange to have three different named characters leading the same force. Not impossible, just a weird alliance.
2. Longstrike specifically buffs other Hammerheads. It's a bit of a waste to take him without other hammerheads to buff.
3. You seem to be indicating you have a Spearhead detachment. The Spearhead Detachment requires three Heavy Support units, while you currently have only one listed; your Sniper drones.
4. Breacher teams require extremely close range to be effective, meaning that Devilfish transports are essentially mandatory for them.
5. Sniper Drones suffer from awful natural BS, like all drones. To make them really worth their points, you need to not only give them a Firesight Marksman (which you have), but also plant them next to a Drone Controller suit of some sort to further boost their BS.

>1003 points

You shouldn't go over the points limit
You're lacking synergy and have lackluster units.
And most pressingly, your list is straight up illegal. Spearhead detachment, max of 2 HQ and minimum or 3 heavy supports

yea i just noticed the errors. i am terrible at this

Newfag to WH40K here.

When did they become "T'au"? I've seen threads about them before and they were just called "Tau". Did another franchise succumb to apostrophe cancer?

Y'es

Just spend sometime reading through a rulebook. A little of reading goes a long way, everyone started off clueless.
As for the list, I'd recommend starting with a standard battalion detachment.
Then filling that one out, it is less specialized.

My condolences

To give a sample army for that above detachment try something like

HQ
Longstrike

Troops
3x fire warriors

Fast Attack
Pathfinders

Elites
Stealth Suits
Ghostkeel

And flesh it out a bit to hit 1000 points

Don't sweat it! We all start somewhere. If you haven't already, I'd highly recommend downloading the Battlescribe app and getting the Warhammer 8e datapack. It's currently one of the best ways to create lists in a fashion that can tell you if there's something you're missing. It's major drawback right now is that the previews you can share with others are pretty ugly to look at, which is why I complimented your layout here .

I'd recommend thinking about what you want each part of your army to do, and then picking units that suit that job. Are you trying to make a balanced combined-arms force centered around an infantry blob? Do you want a super-mobile force using breachers in devilfish? Do you want a tank line led by Longstrike? There are many options, you just need to figure out what you're trying to do and build around that central strategy.