Arms and Armor Thread

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I wish there was a larger image of this rifle somewhere, it's gorgeous.

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Actually, fuck it, have this extreme close up of that rifles stock because it's goddamn gorgeous.

And, to finish off, have this bizarre thing.

Perso-indian weapons are awesome, sometimes a bit silly, but they made great steel. Though I would like to know more about their rifles, apparently these were quite good too I heard.

Well, one of the reasons for that reputation is because during a lot of the British colonial conflicts in what is now Afghanistan and Pakistan, the British military was still using smooth bore muskets. The Afghans, on the other hand, had rifled guns which seriously out performed the British ones. This isn't necessarily because they knew more than the British did, it's just there wasn't a good way to mass produce rifling yet so the British didn't bother for their service weapons but the Afghans and other tribal forces personally bought their guns and so payed for the rifling and the time to make it.

There is also something to be said about the style of stocks popular there, which look weird but are actually pretty comfortable and easy to use for the style of shooting they're designed for.

Intredasting, so it hasn't much to do with their tech or steel.

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I've wanted one of those rifles ever since I watched Hellsing Ultimate.

>cue endless debates about the notch

Nope, in fact many guns in India and it's surrounding areas actually have British actions take from the same British service rifles they were out shooting. They didn't have the skills or materials to make them, so the locks are pretty much identical between Indian and British guns besides embellishment.

Also, Indian steel is itself kind of a myth. Their steel is good and had been for considerably longer than the West, but by colonial times Europe had largely caught up or surpassed them in quality/affordability. Firangi, Indian styled swords with blades purchased from Europe or recovered from European swords, were common all over the subcontinent until swords stopped being a thing for warfare. Pic related is a firangi.

Another, larger, image of a firangi.

I don't know why these photos are such shit quality.

Or rather, I don't know why the uploader decide to fuck up their nice photos by uploading them in shit quality.

But it is what it is.

Close up of guard.

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That's more due to the fact that the west got mass-production and could make good blades for less costs. Woodz steel is still of high quality.

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That's my point. It ended up being cheaper to buy decent or good steel swords from Europeans compared to buying good steel swords from Indians.

Indian steel was always good, but Europeans figured out how to make steel as good but quicker and cheaper.

Is... is that thing for real?

>it's just there wasn't a good way to mass produce rifling yet so the British didn't bother for their service weapons

The issue was that people back then were kinda retarded, but not retarded enough to realize that more bullets in the air is how you win the day. Which usually works great, unless you're ass deep in territory alien to you and everyone and their mothers can shoot and scoot you outta cover all day every day.

I heard it was for circumcising their captured enemies.
You just catch the foreskin on that little hook and pry it off like a can opener.

It's an Islamic religious thing. Muhammed supposedly had a magic bifurcated sword called Zulfiqar, which gave him pretty much all his martial victories and all that good stuff. It became a relatively common thing to be made as a kind of religious talisman or featured in religious iconography across the Muslim world, including India.

Here's another Indian interpretation of the same concept.

Because there are no pictures of the Zulfiqar in the Quran people tended to interpret it's two pronged-ness in a lot of different ways.

India and SE-Asia got its first batch of guns from the Ottomans and Persians, I think.

Now that I actually look at what I just posted, that's actually a 3-D model, not the actual sword.

Here's the real one it's based on.

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And here's an even bigger image of that first Zulfiqar which I knew I had lying around but couldn't find when I started the thread.

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Excuse how large this image of Javelins is.

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Katars are cool but are they actually any good for foightan'?

Seems like any kind of punch dagger (Or in your post, sword) would be outclassed by just a normal sword.

They were originally intended as a secondary weapon like a normal dagger, and largely gained popularity for their novelty. They became a big thing among rich people and nobles because they looked cool and you could embellish them a lot. Long sword like ones are universally just presentation pieces and are kind of pointless.

There is the pata though, but that was only something to be used on horseback and you would still carry a regular sword too.

Definitely what said.
I'm not an expert, but I think the advantage a katar has over a dagger of the same size, is that you can put a lot more power into your stab, since you're essentially punching into them.

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>for when turak cannot decide whether to shoot, stab or smash an opponent's face

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These aren't Middle Eastern or South Asian, they're Belgian, but they're very pretty.

I forgot to mention are Turkish and is Afghan.

This one is from Balkans.

These are a type of sword called "yatagan", used mainly in the Ottoman Empire.

I like this. I take it is a long polearm thing?

Elephant face is a nice touch.

what if i post this?

>Middle East and the Sub Continent Edition
Woo hoo! Lots of maces!

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No maces in the thread. Sadness.

In addition to these things, straight-blade weapons have a noticeably different fighting style compared to traditional swords. While this didn't matter when yoo'z krumpin gitz on the battlefield, it was a noticeable advantage in a duel or any other form of personal combat.

You could also punch a horse with it and kill it dead, which was kinda cool but super dangerous.

Such asychrosity. Implements for meting death yet embellished to be beautiful

what is this chain rifle?

Thats actually badass

Didn't know Muhammad was that cool

its beautiful but looks uncomfie as FUCK to fire.

I've often seen them pitched as anti-armor, i suppose they could do a number on leather or chainmail but they seem a bit too wide. but that could just be because most of the surviving ones were fancy ones and they wanted more room for bling.
actually it was pretty short and used kinda like an axe you could also stab with. alot of examples have that elephant head i've even heard them called elephant axes.

hang in there user

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I give an offering to this thread so it may yet live.

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This is an Urumi.

Maybe a little to modern but here, there sawed off mosin nagant rifles.

>mosin nagant

It is Obrez, pistol of bolt action.

>actually it was pretty short and used kinda like an axe you could also stab with. alot of examples have that elephant head i've even heard them called elephant axes.
How interesting. It looks like a cousin to a western glaive or eastern moon blade/guandao. Even short handled it is still neat, bonus points for being called "elephant axe".

My hero!

I am a mace fan, and always found it interesting that this cultural/geographic area seemed to favor maces more than others. They feel like a common general weapon there, rather a specialty weapon in the west and a generally rare weapon in the east.

Some years ago I went to a museum in Italy, it was full of decorated weapons and firearms, especially one from turkey.
I will try to find some photos.

Yeah, Bhuj are really weird. Their size is unusual, because it's not a hand axe or a full sized battle axe. I can't find any information off hand about how they were used, so I don't know if they were a primary or secondary arm.

Also, weirdly, they almost universally have a small dagger with them that's kept screwed into the haft like a cane sword.

How strange. I like the dagger bit, but I guess the blade is steel and rest is bronze or brass? Really is kind of an odd weapon.

There must be some kind of reason for it to develop like that though, yeah? Is it exclusive to early iron age or something?

Those are Lee Enfields, dude.

Guess not.

The Googles says it's an 18th century weapon, about 30 inches long and a "good parrying weapon". Though I'm not sure how.

It's probably like the Katar. Mainly just a novelty thing for rich folks that has the added benefit of not being totally impractical.

I don't think I've ever seen one that wasn't gilded and embellished, which is probably indicative.

I could swear that I've seen a pretty plain one in the repository of a museum, but my memory might be hazy on this.

There's probably some physics involved where locking the wrist changes how force is applied. Harder to do fancy parries and shit, but your swings and stabs hit harder because they're full arm movements by necessity.

Jezails look really awkward to shoot since they were designed for a completely different shooting stance than what we use today

youtube.com/watch?v=B-aEWZrTibE

>Their size is unusual, because it's not a hand axe or a full sized battle axe.

But that's wrong. Most of them ARE hand axes. Looking at them you'd expect a glaive, when in reality it's just a tiny one-handed weapon.

>I am a mace fan, and always found it interesting that this cultural/geographic area seemed to favor maces more than others.

More like the vast majority of Eurasia is axe/mace-land with only the edges being REALLY REALLY into swords.

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>I've often seen them pitched as anti-armor

Well, they do frequently have extremely well reinforced tips, with cross sections going outright quadratic at times. So they'd be up for it. The arm wielding it is another question.

My bad, I'm fucking retarded.

This may sound odd, but can anyone indicate me a royalty-free or public domain image of a staff sling?

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