Crypto Taxes Tread

this guy gets it

lost my hardware wallet in a boating accident, will the government still demand reperations?

That doesn't really answer my question.

I started with 10K, I made 100 trades, I now have 100K.

Is it sufficient to pay taxes on 90k?

Everyone is moaning about having to calculate every trade, i get the math is different, since you were making money on money that should have been immediately taxed. But i don't quite have a picture in my head as to how that affects the overall net net.

Also, assuming I do just pay on 90K, how much will the IRS really care if I am off only a small percent from the super complicated real value?

not sure there is much to discuss when it comes to taxes, taxation is literally theft, what else is there?

Pro tip:declare nothing.

Cash out using washed privacy coins and donate your ‘tax’ to the charity if your choice. My suggestion would be veterans or emergency services. Paying tax that goes to welfare recipients is cancer.

Yeah i've heard trading is now taxable but I have no clue as to how that could be taxed.
Not 100% sure if that's possible but normally when you lose money you take it out of capital gains by recording it as a capital loss.
I guess you wouldn't have to pay taxes on that since you never realized the value of your crypto.

lucky here, no capital gains yet in NZ

#1 tax strategy:

Move to a U.S. territory with no federal taxes or IRS oversight, and low local taxes (E.g., American Samoa, CNMI).

There's literally no form to report it like that. They want you to report every trade to reduce the chance of money laundering and so they can catch any inconsistencies. Also, different tax rates apply to short term and long term capital gains.

irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f8949.pdf

Use bitcoin.tax it'll generate the form for you.

you buy 10k bitcoin, you wait a week, you now have 20k worth bitcoin. You take all of that and buy bitbean. you are now taxed on the 10,000 you gained because it was realized when you were able to buy that much bitbean.

The tax rate is sufficient as if you pay taxes on the 90k like you're saying. However, for some fucking reason IRS wants to know EVERY single trade.

Not everyone invested enough to warrent living in a shithole for a year.

USA winner won't have to worry about crypto taxes until 2023 at the earliest thanks to the god emperor

you're welcome

what about forex, user? is considered capital gains if you are a day trader?

it's coming soon, though, isn't it?

If you could simply say "I made 1 million dollars from trading" without providing any records or documentation, that would be the best money laundering method.

So the trades aren't taxable they just want you to record them for referance?

>send to Paxful address
>send to flur
>trade for amazon code
>buy amazon items
>sell amazon items
>cash

That’s my method

What? No, they're taxable. You're wrong when you said that you only have to pay when you cash out. Since 2014 the IRS guidance said that any transactions with crypto triggers a tax event calculated with Fair market value at time of trade measured in dollars minus cost basis of coins.

nope, not yet. I made some money using plus 500, nothing happened.

I think so, I'd just go through local bitcoins and take the hit on profits there. Depends when it goes through, fucking Labour. No point cashing anything at this stage though, so lets just wait and see.

Worst case I'll go full into privacy coins and find some pajeet buyer somehow.

merry christmas, anyway, lad
may the gains be tax free x

you are evil lol

I said you that this poster only had to pay capital gains when he cashes out because he didn't discribe any trades occuring thus he wouldn't have to pay capital gains tax on it untill he did cashout or use it in some other way.
I didn't referance trading because he didn't but yes that would also be taxable acording to .

I think this is not true though...

I just did the math real quick, see image.

Final values are different. Question is, how much does that really matter?

Trade on foreign exchange.
Don't cash out to your bank. Lots of other methods.
Laugh at IRS.

>The tax rate is sufficient as if you pay taxes on the 90k like you're saying. However, for some fucking reason IRS wants to know EVERY single trade.
If the tax rate is just the same as if you did that could you just keep records of every trade and referance your last trade before you pay taxes as how much you gained?

What is going on in this sheet and who the fuck are you replying to

Why can the IRS just tax you when you cash out to fiat? You literally can’t do anything with crypto and unless they start accepting taxes in crypto what’s the point?

Well you can also spend it on some shit like how steam used to take BTC as payment for steam money, but i know what you mean it is retarded for the goverment to tax after every trade.

You can barely buy anything with it at the moment. Some congressman should’ve brought it up but I guess they don’t care

>implying congress knows anything about our secret internet money memecoins except that they can milk us like the jew sheep we are.

I hate old people
I really wish some of the younger ones paid attention to this shit

i really wish theyd all die

Sorry, this was in response to: In my spreadsheet, I assume I start with 10K, and double it up 2 times, with one trade in between.

In the first row, I go from 10k to 20K, trade to another coin, then go from 20k to 40k, Total gains are 30K, which results in 4.5k in taxes, assuming 15% capital gains tax, final value I keep is 35.5K.

In the other situation, I pay my taxes on the trade. So 20k transfer gets taxed by 1.5K, and I have 18.5K to trade with. I then double that value instead to 37K. I then pay taxes on my gains of 18.5K, which is 2.775K. My final take home is 34.225.

Note the different in tax rate. It does NOT seem the final results are the same. Am I missing something?

You bring up a good point. I still don't know much if anything about crypto trade taxes so i cant really help you there but It's true you have two diffrent outcomes.

bump

No, you're right - this method jews you harder.

This also means that if you don't have cash on hand to pay for your trades at the EOY you'll have to liquidate some crypto to pay the juden taxman. This will be very much worse than the current method of just 'paying on conversion back to fiat'

it was always treated like a security even before trump was elected

Yes. You're missing the fact the IRS is pretty much butt fucking everyone in the US trading crypto. You pat 15% on every trade from coin to coin PLUS you pay 10%-39.5% capital gain once you convert to fiat. Most Americans will be paying 35%, but regardless this is a fucking double tax if you ask me. I also doubt it will be repealed, but one can dream.

In my country crypto taxes are in the possible future, and one scenario is selling all BTC before 31 and reselling at january 1st to avoid future taxation when sellling
Is this a thing is US?
Is the massive BTC dip a result of this scheme?

nice

Not a bad idea, user..

you can run but you can't hide brainlet

Taxing each trade is the second one. I don't think it's enforceable. If you double your stack, you pay taxes on each, but unless you pay your taxes immediately (impossible without retard levels of control) you will have situation 1

How does one report Etheremon gains?

Ethermon will probably be seen like income.

How do you even report that?

I spent 1 Eth on a mon
I got less than 1 Eth back
I still own the mon

What do you report??? How??

>he isn't a non dom british citizen
>he doesn't operate his trading career through an offshore trust account

>Goy id
Nice.

Where is the statement that a crypto to crypto trade will be taxed at 15%? Short term cap gains depends on bracket, but exists, and it's the same for income, but can you direct me to 15% on crypto trades? I'll literally renounce my citizenship and go to korea within 3 years

So do you think by paying taxes on the gains you've made as of the last trade during tax day would be sufficent?
Treat it as any other coin, taxable once you sell or trade

TaxLoli are you here?
If so, Merry Christmas.

Cap gains on eth @ purchase, income tax on all eth received.

>day
I don't know about day traders, but for everyone else, it will be best done at the end of the year. There's no feasible way to
tax every transaction and take your money at the time of the transaction without setting up a us gov exchange.

with the value being its value in USD, via ETH's price at the time of purchase?

Do I put the Etheremon's name on my tax return? What a surreal question and time to be alive.

>Catalog
The 15% is assumed unless you're making over $200k, which I'm sure if that were the case you wouldn't be on Veeky Forums

Do it to piss then off

Eths btc price +translated to usd price is probably the best. There's no official fair trade prove set up for this shit either other than btc. The government is really fucking itself by not making crypto a totally new asset classes with its own rules.

When you sell your shittermon you would have to just remember how much you sold it for. I bought two crypto kitties and now they're worth shit so im not going to cash them out. If you think Ethermon will be any diffrent your sadly mistaken

I can deduct the gas fees to withdraw to my wallet though?

Shit, my taxes are going to be completely fucked.
>buy cloudming contract
>it's considered income
>all gains are taxed as capital appreciation
>do most trades via shapeshift
Luckily I haven't cashed out much, but this is going to be a nightmare

No it's not, because if you held for less than 12 months you're taxed as ordinary income, if you held for more than 12 months it gets a favorable rate or 15 or 20%. (I assume the 15 is going to drop to 12? i'm confused on that)

i think mining is ordinary income though? maybe not the contract income

How much did you make? contracts worth it anymore?

Yes, fees can be added to cost

As long as it's not 15% crypto, x cap gains, x income, that's alright. They're going to probably try pushing other shit that brings us up another 20% tho. Really needs to be like aus. They're literally driving away innovation.

Mining is ordinary income. Not sure how the contracts would work. Look for an actual accountant there.

This is what im trying to say.
So would it just be fine to only pay the taxes calculated on the last trade you make and then after tax day you don't have to pay taxes untill you make another trade or cash out?

I think so. That's what i intend to do, but I'll get someone to consult on it. The math makes sense, but I'm finding that figuring out what lots i have and what lots i sold on a fifo basis makes it hard to discern anyway. My eth accounts are all kinds of fucky. You should get your fees added to cost, you'll end up with better numbers.

Genesis unlimited bitcoin contracts are life, everything else is meh to shit tier but still massively profitable, especially in a bull market.

Well doing it the way i discribed would be the best possible way to keep track of gains and would also unintentionally take into account trasaction fees, (but not other fees like the coinbase jew fee). Either way good luck with that shit this is all kinds of fucked

>taxes
>crypto

You will never make it.

I will never hide from you, sexy thing

no. you must pay taxes on EVERY trade you make

Just throw in what you can, we'll make sure you make money discord.gg/FN6pVrn

This will kill crypto trading. Crypto is dead.

It does. Unless there is a crypto exchange tax out something of that sort.

So I make 20 traded a day and gain a total of $100 USD on said day and over the corse of all the trades I pay 15% of all gains into taxes. That would come out to 15 which is the same as having just trading all day and after my last trade finding out how much capital i gained as of the last trade.

move to somewhere without capital gains tax and renounce your us citizenship

Just sell at a loss and you'll actually get to write it off on your taxes

I’ve made tens of thousands of orders on Bitmex. This is a partial sample of one day, which doesn’t show the prices they got filled at, the fees, and the funding (how would funding gains/losses even be taxed? what would be the basis?)

How the absolute bloody fuck am I supposed to “report every trade”

ESPECIALLY in terms of USD

Fucking HOW

To add to this, there’s no fixed concept of “basis” on Bitmex. I am not exchanging X for Y. No actual sale of property is occurring. The margin posted is dynamically variable and the contracts have no real value.

How the fuck am I supposed to report this?

Computer got a virus so i threw it out and lost my private keys now get fucked

You pay short term capital gains on EVERY crypto to crypto transaction throughout the year. Like kind never applied to crypto. The tax % is based on your 2017 income tax bracket. Since you can't cash out most shit coins without transferring to BTC/ETC, you're stuck forever with the short term capital gains tax. If you hold BTC or ETH and hold for over a year, you get taxed at a lower long term capital gains rate when cashing out. Shit sucks if you wanna be legit.

simple. dont

just tax your usd cashouts but if you havent cashed out more than 20k dont even report it

I’ve made over $130,000 from crypto this year and I am damn fucking well cashing most of this out, now or inevitably not much later. I do this for a living, with no other income.

I’m assuming everyone saying they won’t report taxes en bloc is a literal child gambling with lunch money, but once you’re in the six figures or more the risk of getting fedded on is too high.

If audited, the IRS could be dicks and assume a zero cost basis since your records are lacking. In other words, you'd be taxed on the full 100k. This also results in a 10% income discrepancy which can result in a 20% neglegence fine iirc.

good luck most of that money going to ur government XD

I bought drugs using my Coinbase wallet. How fucked am I?

>Regular traders in both the US and Canada have to do this already.

Stop crying and hire an accountant. Or drown in paper.

Hire a CPA or Tax Attorney. Bitcoin.tax has a list of professionals that are familiar with crypto. I'm going to go see one since I'm in a similar situation. I'd rather play by the rules if I can't retire on the amount of money I want to cash out.

You are still supposed to pay capital gains tax if you use crypto to purchase something.

do i need to pay taxes this year on trades even if im not cashing anything out

I state this. The other guy was saying something like there was a double tax. 1 for specifically a crypto trade aaand capital gains aaaaand income.

Yes.

I guess technically you can trade a shitcoin for BTC, sit on it for a year, then cash out if you're looking to be double taxed in some manner.