/standard/

Thanks. Yeah Doomed Dissenter looks like crap I threw it in last second because I was lacking 2 drops. Okay I am checking out mtgtop8. I'll work on it for a bit...

Shit nigga I have no idea. I've only been "playing" for about a week. And by a week I mean that's when I first learned how to play. Working on my very first deck. I guess I prefer control play. I thought i'd do zombies but try to mass up a huge amount in midgame while using removals in the early. That's my initial n3wb logic at least.

If you're brand new, don't bother getting into standard just yet. Stick with kitchen table magic, or do some drafts to learn how cards works and what cards are good or not. After you get some understanding of why decks are built the way they are, then you can start looking at playing constructed.

Draft seems very complicated from my new perspective.

Why is that not a Zombie?

>why is there never standard

because Veeky Forums isn't a spike community
people here prefer modern/EDH becuase then they can just play complete jank brews and screw around

people will talk about how standard is shit and awful and whatnot but the reality is that the format is pretty much an open field right now with multiple different decks and strats.

the problem is that since standard is the most skill intensive constructed format Veeky Forums sucks at it and hates it

I am currently playing Bolas URb control and swept both FNM yesterday and showdown today
deck is pretty good

The purpose is not to give you something easy to do. Drafting is cheap, and not much teaches you about card evaluation more than jamming drafts.

If you *really* wanted to just play standard you'd netdeck and play one of those. If your goal is to build lists for standard (or any format) one of the better ways to get the fundamental understanding of "how magic works" is draft.

At a higher level yeah draft and constructed are pretty different but for you? Anything you learn from one will apply to the other for now.

Imma make the case, just because someone has to make the case to represent all formats: buy yourself a Pre-Con Commander, and have fun playing Commander and tweaking that deck if you're looking for a non-draft format.

As for Draft, it's a great format once you learn what to look for, though honestly Amonkhet is a terrible, boring set to get into Draft with. Wait until Ixalan, or better yet, Unstable releases. Unstable will be FUN.

If you really want to get into a fun Draft, and can't wait, find yourself 7 friends and each chip in $20 to buy yourself a nice Cube online, or build your own with cards you have.

>bolas URb

in terms of slang -- does the small "b" mean you just "splash" black to get bolas out?

Thing is with my deck here i'm trying to stay with zombies to use the scarab god.

If you think those won't work together lmk. But other than that I probably want to do something along your lines. Other than the Cancels, is there anything glaringly obvious that I fucked up in the deck making it junk?

I started with kitchen table and drafts, though I started with m13, so it was much more simple. Drafting isn't too hard. Just gotta remember BREAD. Bombs, removal, evasion, aggro, duds. Drafting really helps you learn how to evaluate cards, which if you want to build your own standard deck is huge. If you just want to play standard then don't bother with trying to build your own deck, look at the best decks online and build whatever one looks neat to you.
Here's a decent guide, though it's for an older set, the ideas still stand.
gatheringmagic.com/melissadetora-041212-a-beginners-guide-to-drafting/.

Your deck is trying to be two things poorly. You either be zombies, which is an aggro deck, or URB control, without the zombies. Jamming zombies in a control deck just adds a few weak cards that really need a lot of other creatures and synergy to work well, while jamming high casting cost non-zombie cards in a zombie deck just slows is down and dilutes an aggressive plan.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic:_The_Gathering_deck_types

b as in I have 7 black sources
4 Aether Hubs
1 Fetid Pools
1 Canyon Slough
1 Sunken Hollow

so yeah that b is just for Bolas and nothing else

he isn't over rated at all
every time I have cast him I have won the game because of him
he can turn bad board states around really fast and can act as a huge self heal

if they have control of the board and can't kill you the next turn you play bolas, plus him to 9, play something off the top of their deck and then say go

you now have a 9 loyalty PW threatening to generate free card advantage or mindrot them or just dome them for 7 which pretty much forces them to either deal with it or try and kill you and ignore him
most have elected to try and kill him which hasn't happened and just takes focus away from my life total giving me time to stabilize or take an advantage

yesterday at FNM my round 2 match was vs. some red deck and I resolved him game one used his +2 and hit a Neeheb the Eternal off the top of his deck
next turn hit him for 7 in main phase 1 with bolas and the swing with Neeheb and generate 11 extra mana in post combat main phase on turn 7
shit was pretty bonkers

if Bolas isn't a defining threat of this format it will only be because RDW is stronger than I am thinking it is other than that people should be prepared for him

I like how it's entirely WotC's fault too

>remove interaction as much as possible because little Johnny cries at night when you doomblade his Craw Wurm
>it turns out the best strategy with no interaction or combo is just to jam the best creatures in standard on a curve

ok that sounds good. Yeah I had the urge to crack packs and got an amonkhet deck builder and an hod bundle. I got decent pulls - 2x scarab god, archfiend, never/return, champion of wits... and a gideon of the trials I hope to trade straight up for a liliana's death majesty. Guess I was tryna make it all work together but I suppose maybe i'll work on a couple different specialized decks.

I'm gonna be really sour if I hold onto both those scarab gods and they crash in price... if zombies dies in ixalan then there should be no way it holds its value, unless it becomes useful in modern. (i'm about 50% into magic because secondary markets//economies are interesting to me)

yeah except the best decks in the format right now are
RDW
UR(b) control
UW Monument
B Zombies
Temur Energy
and Ramp

one of these decks involves jamming their best creature every turn the others are all over the place with multiple different kinds of game plans

>one of these decks involves jamming their best creature every turn
RDW, UW Monument, Zombies, Energy, and Ramp all jam their best creature every turn.

Energy jams their best on curve creature every turn

Zombies is basically Merfolk but for standard and focuses on graveyard interaction and card advantage with tribal pump
they might jam their best creature for the first 3 turns but beyond that the deck involves quite a bit more thought
RDWs involves dealing as much damage as possible rather than focusing on high value creatures so that doesn't really apply
UW monument jams values fliers and is pretty much a token deck that wants to go super wide but doesn't really care too much about their creatures
Ramp jams their creatures on you after playing their ramps spells and mana dorks

none of these decks, except energy, are looking to curve 1 2 3 4 5 6 for maximum effectiveness and almost all of them rely on some cool gimmick that is exploitable and vulnerable to counterplay
just because you are bad at the format doesn't mean you should be bashing it because if you are gonna use that logic and try to apply it to these decks I could be a cunt and do the same thing to Modern

>RDWs involves dealing as much damage as possible rather than focusing on high value creatures so that doesn't really apply
The deck is 28~ creautes and some burn spells. All it does it play creatues every turn. Same with Zombies, except removal instead of burn.
>UW monument jams values fliers and is pretty much a token deck that wants to go super wide but doesn't really care too much about their creatures
That still involves playing at least 1 creature a turn, and usually more because of how cheap they are, especially when you get a ton of clues and the creatures are cheaper because of monument.

>none of these decks, except energy, are looking to curve 1 2 3 4 5 6 for maximum effectiveness and
That's not what you said.
>one of these decks involves jamming their best creature every turn the others are all over the place with multiple different kinds of game plans
You didn't mention anything about curving out. Just jamming their best creautes. Which is what all those decks do.

I'm not bad at the format. Nor am I bashing it. I enjoy standard. It's not super great right now, but the decks are different enough, that while they all have the same idea, the do it in different ways, makes them neat.

can someone explain fatal push mechanics to me?

I get the first part. the revolt is where i'm not sure. by "this turn", if it is currently your turn, does it..... oh I think I just realized when it happens.

after he attacks and you block, you suicided something on the block, and then THAT'S when revolt is triggered, right? this card can only be played as EITHER the normal way and the revolt way, right?

that seems like one good way to trigger the revolt, any other obvious ways? guess the same thing in reverse - suicide attack and if he blocks you fatal push.

yeah that's a good card. am I getting it?

>permanent
You don't need to have a creature die. It's one of the easier ways sure, but anything that makes a permanent you control leave the battlefield will work.

>it turns out the best strategy with no interaction or combo is just to jam the best creatures in standard ON A CURVE

right I didn't say it
you did

the best strats in standard right now might involve playing a lot of creatures but the same is true pretty much all formats with the exceptions of a few unique decks
grixis shadow just wants to jam shadow or tasagur or gurmag asap
hatebears just jams hate bears asap
merfolk just jams merfolk
tron is basically just ramp and wants to jam ulamog or karn
death and taxes just wants to jam op white creatures
most decks in almost every format rely on jamming their best creatures asap

obviously there are exceptions to this but for the most part creatures are the main wincons of decks

yes fatal push is one of the best cards printed in like the last 2 years
crack an evolving wilds/fetch land and then fatal push with revolt
sacrifice a clue or some other token and then get revolt
crack any of the maps and search a land and revolt
the least efficient way is to have them block a creatures to get the revolt trigger

Crack a fetchland. It works on any permanent, not just a creature. Fetchlands give you whenever the hell you want revolt.

UW monument jams their best creature for like 4 turns and then often leaves mana open for counterspells and/or clues or to avoid overextension, have you ever even seen the deck in action? Besides it has such a low curve that there is hardly a thing like 'best on curve'

It has plenty of choices that aren't just 'lol slam down your on-curve cards', though I'm sure your imaginary non-linear deck has much more choices

oooooooo shit.

LOL

thanks. I was pretty much waaay off

no because the spell isn't modal
you select the target of the spell first and then the game state checks to see if you have revolt or not so first you would target THEN check if you have revolt

>this card can only be played as EITHER the normal way and the revolt way, right?
And what do you mean by this? If you haven't had a permanent leave the battlefield the turn you cast it, you can only target something with cmc 2 or less, but if you did then you can target something with cmc 4 or less.

That wasn't me that said that.

>grixis shadow just wants to jam shadow or tasagur or gurmag asap
While making you discard, countering spells, drawing cards with thoughtscour, removing creatures.
>most decks in almost every format rely on jamming their best creatures asap
I know. I agree. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with it. I was just saying that that's what most of the standard decks you listed did.

Fair enough.

>And what do you mean by this? If you haven't had a permanent leave the battlefield the turn you cast it, you can only target something with cmc 2 or less, but if you did then you can target something with cmc 4 or less.
Ignore this I'm dumb.

ah thanks. yeah I deleted that Q since I just had that revelation on my first fatal push Q.

So if that's the case, then you can hypothetically use fatal push on... anything (creatures only?), and if you use it on something with CMC >4 it just goes to graveyard with no effects?

Because if it checks for revolt AFTER casting, and you cast it on a CMC=4, then you weren't obeying the normal casting rule of CMC>=2...

Yes, you can fizzle your own fatal push like that

>So if that's the case, then you can hypothetically use fatal push on... anything (creatures only?), and if you use it on something with CMC >4 it just goes to graveyard with no effects?
Yes. Creatures only. Yes.

oh that wasn't you
nvm then

but on the topic of grixis shadow would you actually like to see cards like thoughtsieze on standard? do you want to see things like all the stupid as shit cantrips that deck plays and takes over a game in like half a turn?

creatures only as it says "target creature"

yeah you are allowed to target any creature with fatal push it just wont do anything if the conditions of destruction aren't met

I played mono black devotion when it was in standard, so yes, I would love to see thoughtseize like cards in standard. Those alongside card advantage, removal, and good creatures is great. But only if there are other decks that can compete.

There's a ton of good removal in standard, it's just not path of exile and lightning bolt.

There's like 3 red sweepers, fatal push, a conditional wrath, some really bad 3-mana wrath, wrath for 5 mana with lifegain, abrade, harnessed lightning, blessed alliance

new hot deck incoming
r/w refurbish gift
11 mountain
4 needle spires
4 plains
4 inspiring vantage
4 insolent neonate
4 noxious gearhulk
4 combustible gearhulk
4 god-pharaoh's gift
4 refurbish
4 cathartic reunion
4 tormenting voice
3 madcap experiment
3 fiery temper
3 fumigate
sb:
2 nahiri, the harbinger
3 dreamstealer
2 sunscourge champion
3 abrade
3 hour of devastation
1 chaos maw
1 noosegraf mob

tyty. Yeah the revolt mechanic is a bit confusing. I think I not only got fatal push figured out now but should be good on revolts in general.

I've been enjoying watching that Rudy guy's youtube. He's pretty smart, told everyone to sell when FP was 5$ (while he was opening patron's booster boxes) and it's no question that he's the one who bought them all. Now I just know to do the opposite of whatever he says.

well I mean zombies currently plays things like Transgress the mind, Cryptbreaker for card advantage, and pretty good creatures

the thing is we have all these effects in standard and almost all of them see use in some decks or in SB but they are just worse versions of the ones you probably want and this is for a good reason. If you remember back MonoB devotion format was basically the definition of a degenerate 1 deck format and Thoughtsize was a huge reason for this since they could stop pretty much any other deck from playing the game on turn 1 and then act with perfect information for the next 3 or 4 turns

Standard is just the place where we slow things down so that people can actually play a game and not have to deal with "Cycle Street Wraith x3, Play a fetch, crack a fetch, shock for 2, tap 1, play a 2/2 death's shadow on turn 1 and or thoughsieze and or inquisition you"

shit just isn't fun to play against and results in very predictable play patterns and games being effectively decided in in 2-3 turns consistently

This looks pretty interesting but the cards that make you go off are pretty expensive at 4

you have to hit refurbish or god-pharaoh as soon as you can alongside the gearhulks.
twelve artifacts are basic number for the madcap and the synergy with the black gearhulk is pretty good and against fatties definitely worth the price

So what will the biggest losses to Standard be after rotation? I can think of Gideon, Grasp of Darkness, Selfless Spirit, Tireless Tracker, and Spell Queller off the top of my head. What else will cause a stir when it rotates out?

I just realised I haven't even thought about mtg since Hour of Devastation released. I think I must have been looking forward to it but I guess I just don't care.

Thraben inspector
Ulamog
Avacyn
Bygone bishop
One of the chandras

Hour of Devastation means new stuff for my -1/-1 counter Hapatra deck. Grind // Dust for example is strictly better than Splendid Agony. Obelisk Spider also could bring much needed reach and defense while providing minor synergy with the rest of the deck.

Thoughts about other cards of the set?

How good is this deck in the current meta? It's fairly rotation proof so I want to build it if it's not bad.
youtube.com/watch?v=c8MRwovwl3w

The real question is, Will standard be worth getting into after rotation happens?

>Was playing Grixis Control during Kaladesh and Aether Revolt
>Only played a bit during Amonkhet just due to interest in other things

Is it worth coming back? Want to use a deck that can drop Nicol Bolas.

Standard is the format no one wants to play but some people are forced to because they can't afford any of the non-rotating formats.

I'm new to magic and would like to play a deck that's under $50 and fairly rotation proof, any good suggestions?

also new here. i am op

everything from the sets "kaladesh, aether revolt, amonkhet, and hour of devastation" won't get rotated out anytime soon.

the other 2 sets legal in standard are gone in at the end of september so i'd avoid buying anything worth more than 1 dollar from those sets..

have you got an idea of a color you like?

mtggoldfish.com/articles/budget-magic-27-2-tix-two-tix-red-standard

It is, but it's a lot less complicated than building a deck for standard from scratch. In standard, you have to know the meta and the card list for the last four sets. For Draft, you need to know up to two sets, tops. Also, Draft is a hell of a lot less expensive than standard, as long as you're not playing too much.

Also, if you're looking for a more casual format, go with Commander. The games are a lot slower, the cards are a lot bigger, and unless you're playing or playing against a degenerate deck, the games are pretty wild.

>2 sets legal
Blocks, not sets. 2 blocks, 4 sets.

There are not really any good cheap standard decks that are rotation proof. Your best bet is a mono-red aggro deck because it can be made fairly cheap, and be somewhat fast. However, any other reasonable deck will probably out-value, or out-race you.

There are no standard decks that are rotation proof, and especially not for $50. The only solution is to play mono-red in Modern, and you're looking at a real garbage version at that.

is mardu vehicles safe post rotation

Are blind people stupid?

>WotC-approved deck of the season

The one they turn around and ban a month later so you can move on to the next WotC-approved deck of the season? Kind of glad I haven't played competitively since BFZ.

But of course, the WorC-approved deck is the one they missed while testing

>look up Mardu Vehicles lists
>See what cards in it are rotating out
>decide for yourself how valuable the amount of cards are that are leaving standard
congratulations, you've learned how to think critically all on your own

>WotC-approved deck of the season
>they turn around and ban a month later

So MtG is Yugioh now?

Nigga this is your standard
Play a few games to see if you find it fun then go and fuck every thing

Since 4c control won a thing does that mean control is viable? Post control lists ideally in esper colors

google "mtg standard esper control"

Do you really expect us to look up and print out a dozen full decklists for you?

I'm not sure whether I want to play R/U Colossus or the Temurge list from Channel Fireball on Game Day.

channelfireball.com/articles/deck-of-the-day-temur-emerge-3/

Mostly just BR is. UB is okay. Esper isn't great.

That temur deck looks fun. I love self-mill graveyard shenanigans.

>BR
Meant UR

Ktk theros was a fantastic format, standard didn't shit itself until M15 rotated

MONO RED WILL WIN PRO TOUR HOUR OF DEVASTATION
SCREENSHOT THIS

Stop giving people shitty advice. Building a limited deck with retarded ideas like BREAD is going to make them end up with a "bleh" deck. Drafting requires good knowledge of the set, as well as reading signals from other players, in order to know how to navigate your way through the draft. Evaluating cards is VERY hard for a new player, especially under a time constraint.

Newbros should start with 6 pack sealed, or (even better) a casual league at your FLGS. When you play 6-pack sealed / league, you can leverage help from other MTG Bros to help you build a good deck, and ask them to explain why some cards are good, and other cards are omitted.

no doofus I was hoping we could have a discussion about control in general. sure I asked for esper lists but i'm not unaware of how to search for them. I was hoping to see your spicy homebrew perhaps?

BR? I thought UR was the hot control color, I haven't seen and BR lists. for UB I'd imagine just take out the good white stuff for grasp and maybe a black finisher (maybe gonti?)

anyway i'm considering something like this for my afternoon standard showdown, any anons have any advice?

4x Harsh Scrutiny
2x Essence Scatter
2x Bontu's Last Reckoning
3x Disallow
4x Supreme Will
4x Heiroglyphic Illumination
3x Glimmer of Genius
2x Fumigate

2x Cast Out

2x Gideon of the Trials
2x Dovin Baan
1x Nicol Bolas, God-Pharaoh

3x Torrential Gearhulk

26x Lands

Side
2x Fumigate
3x Lay Bare the Heart
3x Fatal Push
1x Kefnet the Mindful
2x Cast Out
2x Gideon's Intervention
2x Solemnity

...

I'd main pushes.

nah it will probably be RB

...

...

...

...

depends on how -1/-1 you wish to get, are you hapatra focused, are you nest of scarabs bound, both?
and the only drawbacks of grind//dust is the white cost -.-, but i do agree it is miles better than splendid agony

>tfw want to play bolas but don't want to play grixis like everyone else

>because Veeky Forums isn't a spike community
>people here prefer modern/EDH becuase then they can just play complete jank brews and screw around
lol stfu, moron. Standard is, as other anons pointed out, a total shit show. Shit cards, shit decks, stupid bans and oh boy, more shit cards. Any format is better than this.

I think it is funny people don't see this for the broken anti boardwipe it is.
hour of devastation on a 5 mand board...
Oh look, enchanted creature takes ALL THAT DAMAGE and 4 survive, slap it on flash speed and profit

sure, but what do you cut for it? and how often are people getting blown out by hour of devastation at this point?

i feel you man, at least marvel never got to touch bolas

it is a decent sideboard card for any deck that likes to go wide.
With all the wipes in standard.
Fumigate, hour, sweltering suns, bontus reckoning, there is enough threat to warrent a good sideboard counter to a counter wipe, potentially removing enemy creatures while still coming out ahead.

>people here prefer modern/EDH becuase then they can just play complete jank brews and screw around
>every single modern thread starts with $$$ competitive $$$

I'm going to miss Zulaport cutthroat but Aristocrats hasn't been a thing since Origins was still in standard anyway.

I had lost hope for a post rotation standard because almost nothing from KLD/AMK interested me but I had a friend show up with Mardu Gearhulk Reanimator and it looked fun as shit. I just hope he won't mind me asking for a list I can work off of. I'm god awful with deckbuilding from scratch.

It's not that they don't see it, it's that it's irrelevant. I mean, people could also be running this too, and also hit literally every sorcery in the format.

Is it worth it to run 2 claim//fame in the RDW shell that splashes black for scrapheap scrounger?

But saving grace only protects against 2 of those

Good combo with Selfless Spirit though

>win literally every game i resolve bolas
>marvel with bolas
I shiver at the idea of turn 4 bolas

true, but that is blue, that is what blue does, says no to everything...
but a way for white to survive boardwipes that isn't a counterspell, is rare and interesting in a different way.

holy shit Veeky Forums is bad at magic