Necromancer Tactics

well flesh golems have bone (i assume) i think what he was asking for the gibbering mouther but made out of melted down corpses animated by a necromancer
Which is sick idea for a 5th level party to encounter when going to take down a necromancer his "failed" experiments of these half alive piles of flesh and liquefied bone

But we can consider specific circumstances. Against a mage for instance, considering they may have large area of effect spells, wouldn't spread out archers be the best counter?

Skeletons are great for attrition warfare, assuming they don't need the necromancer to be awake.
They don't need to sleep, they can pose just enough treat to prevent enemy from resting.

>well flesh golems have bone (i assume)
Literally why would you do that? Do you think bone golems have skin? Stone golems have wooden frames?

Fucking idiot.

Depends on what spells they have. Charms and Illusions? Whatever, just send your minions on up. Fireballs out the ass? You better know ahead of time or you won't be able to split up fast enough. Necromancer with spells to take control of your undead? Maybe hire some mercenaries instead.

Point is, there's a lot of small tactical changes you can make, but you don't know which ones are the correct ones unless you know who your opponent is.

where possible try to maximize the efficacy of your undead. don't use gauntlets when you can take time to etch the bones with strengthening runes and rivet iron directly to them. include hidden blades, internal storage for supplies, ammunition, or suprises. necromancers really do benefit from crafting skills and feats.

they carry both melee and ranged weapons since they don't need food, fire, or shelter they can carry those things in abundance. I'd say light/medium shields and spears for formation melee, a long knife or short sword as a backup, and every one of them carries a shortbow(cheaper, lighter, smaller) and 50 or more arrows. finally inside each rib-cage is an area deterrent, be that a censer full of burning toxics/irritants, an explosive device(s), or a large aggressively angry beehive is up to you. depending on your GM and his rules on encumberance they also all carry a mace or light warhammer for less impact-resistant foes.

>pdf only partially related, it's a story I wrote a long time ago that touches on your topic

They're made from stitched together body parts right?
Body parts have occasionally been known to contain bones, believe it or not

That was a nice read.

If the shields are larger they will be able to protect the infantrymen next to them as well. The downside is that they wouldn't be able to use two-handed, longer spears then. Depending on how many undead you have, lighter shields and longer spears with deeper formations would be better if you have a lot. If you don't then larger shields with shorter spears would probably be best.

That sounds rather time consuming. When's a Lich supposed to leisurely contemplate the nature of undeath?

Well he has all the time in the world.

>So I was thinking about what battlefield tactics would be needed as a necromancer.

Undead bombs.

Elaborate

An area deterrent is genius. I recall hearing about mushrooms that are poisonous just to be around. Having that in their ribcage would definitely be amazing.

>Elaborate
3.x had a feat that just straight up made your undead explode with negative energy when destroyed, if I remember right. Not really much thought necessary unless you were worried about collateral damage. Send waves of skeletal rats at your foes.

that has a lot to do with the numbers the necromancer in OP can keep up simultaneously. but either way it's fine, most games don't offer mechanical advantages for group cover so the smaller shields probably work better at a better currency:defense ratio.

>When's a Lich supposed to leisurely contemplate the nature of undeath?
have you never simply set to a craft you know well and allowed your mind to wander and your hands to do the work?

it's a theraputic experience.

oh, and that last line that trails off should read
>“The eternal Legion, at your service all volunteers accounted for awaiting your leave to depart and do what must be done…”

because I wanted the story to stop there before it devolved into mary-sue BS about a retired adventurer kicking the shit out of some orcs.

>I recall hearing about mushrooms that are poisonous just to be around. Having that in their ribcage would definitely be amazing.
problem there(same with the bees) is that you can't turn it off. that and mushrooms are decomposers by nature, makes them less ideal. spore-mines might be good in exclusively sacrificial troops though. raise some quickies that release the toxins when re-killed causing death to pursuers.

Is there something like a gasmask in d&d for the mushrooms?

>shortbow
>skeletons
>drawing a knocking a bow

Crossbows at best. Javelin more likely.

>giving your skelies maces

What so people can disarm them and beat them to death with their own weapons?

The first thing you need to know is NAGASH WAS WEAK

Faust's first fight in shaman king.

Why would you fight a battle like normal?

Make use of your necromancy to flank the enemy or deny them territory. Wipe out a unit then leave their bodies there so you can raise them behind enemy lines. Raise zombies in the middle of a shield wall to break the formation. Cover the battlefield in a thick smoke that will blind or choke your enemies, your soldiers don't need to breathe and probably don't see. Walk skeletons along a riverbed to infiltrate the enemy camp and ransack their supplies, your men can't starve. You can siege basically forever, and if you spread disease you can even start raising men inside the city walls. Get ghosts to haunt the shit out of them, preventing them from sleeping and wrecking their morale.

There's so many ways to be a dick with necromancy.

I make them into skelecopters and use aerial shock attack tactics.

>skelecopters
thats an example of a GM allowing too much I think.
besides, you have to keep replacing the blades on those due to joint wear...

Yeah that's a stretch

Don't forget the negative energy heals the still standing undead near it.

>Yeah, but what about in the middle of a fight?

"I have these troops that march 24/7, fight without ever tiring, do not panic, and follow my every command perfectly down to the level of the single undead. They also outrun your cavalry over long distances, FYI."

They basically command the best and fastest troops. Your only chance in an open field battle is to knock out the commander, either by killing him or aviod actual open field battles and fighting in hella broken and built-up terrain that doesn't allow him to effectively control his hordes.

Good luck doing that though, as he can outmaneuver you on a strategic level and take your cities and fortresses well before they're actually prepared to resist and he'll easily dictate you engagements that are absolutely in his favour.

>Say you can have a few skeletons at a time, with basic equipment,
Does equipment encumber skeletons?
How fast are your skeletons?
How high can they jump?
Can you reform skeletons?
Could you control fossil skeletons?
How strong is the skeleton arm swing?
How fast can a skeleton parry?
How well can a skeleton use a shield?
If you remove its head, can the skeleton still function?
If you remove its head, can the skeleton still see?
Can skeletons crawl underground?

There are many things you have to consider when you decide to use a skeleton. Because skeletons by their very definition are unrealistic as fuck, OP. Like, having dragons is more realistic than having skeletons.

Go home Manfred. You're just the undead version of an armless failure.
Nagash as well as Horus wreck yet shit anyday while you boast about being the very bestest.

Personally I'm a fan of necromancers who go ham with their designs. Take the skeletons apart and reassemble them as an organic catapult. Skeletons with four arms, all carrying shields, at the front lines. Skelecopters with arms in place of legs, carrying greatbows. The possibilities are endless.

It really makes the average lich more threatening when they just start cranking out skeleton abominations to serve specific battlefield roles. It shows they've put a lot of thought and talent into this whole 'conquest' thing.

The strongest part about undead is they don't need sleep or food and you can always raise more. Best tactic is to fuck with people nonstop for a few months and they'll literally defeat themselves.

You could just grind down any human army in an open field battle. People can't go for more than a couple of minutes on full adrenaline while the undead will just keep on trucking until they've been hacked appart.

So whenever they engage, the undead will just have to keep up the pressure until the unit they're opposing has run out of steam and then roll over them.

First consider the general traits of the undead. Let's do DnD 3.5, for example. If you just look at the list, you'll see that they're MUCH better than living humans, for example. Even the weakest skeletons don't need to breathe, eat, and sleep. They never become tired, and can't be routed (well, maybe intelligent undead can be, if they think they lost the battle). Basically, an undead army will always be superior to a living army of a comparable strength just by the virtue of its resistances and immunities, if we're not talking elite troops.

Then consider individual undead unit types. Skeletons have resist 5/blunt, zombies have 5/slashing. 5 damage in DnD is like a sword swing or an arrow hit by a common soldier, so they're both very resistant to arrows. So even the weakest undead creatures need to be dealt with only with specific tools or magic.

Next consider the elite undead, that can't be hit by non-magic weapons at all, or have fear auras, or have poisonous bite, or can turn humans into ghouls. Even a few of those creatures used as shock troops will decimate regular living army formation if there are no counters to them.

Finally, consider what magic and technology can do to augment the undead strengths and cover their weaknesses. Suicide bombing with skeletons full of bottles of alchemical fire, zombie bats dropping poisonous gas bombs right in the middle of the ongoing battle, necromancers casting cloudkill that moves along with the advancing skeletons, and so on.

TL;DR: whatever you do with undead, if it's not throwing them blindly into the fray against elite troops, it's going to be pretty spooky to the living armies. And if you have access to magic or elite troops, it becomes downright horrifying. Dropping infected zombies into the city severs, vampire assassins, chemical and germ warfare, death spells.

Depend, you can have magical limits to their usage.

At a certain point the real limitation of an optimized skeletal army is the capabilities of the commander / command team. In the end they will still require a steady stream of accurate information to execute the maneuvers that fully take advantage of the skeletal army. You don't have to worry about your army breaking but you don't have the luxury of them having self preservation either if you accidentally miss-manage some micro. Having a familiar or some other form of telepathic control to assist would be extremely helpful, as would methods of observation that don't place yourself at risk.

In our current 5e campaign we had have an NPC apprentice and the NPC guards of the evil tower defend while the PCs were off at a party. The apprentice was controlling the undead but was able to do so from the luxury of a permanent scrying effect on the field of battle. Due to our opponents having Shield, adjusting fire to a new target in the middle of going through the attacks required a readied action from the NPC apprentice to give the skeletons the adjusted orders in the middle of their barrage of arrows.

Though at the end of the day you do have to also consider that the enemy army will have clerics and wizards of their own, maybe even golems, summoned creatures

It's not just a case of 'undead win because logistics', although you'd be an idiot to ignore that because it's a huge part of it. Just not the only part.

You iknow how Sun Tzu tells you to get to the battlefield first and await your enemy? Yeah, while you're waiting bury some of your undead forces so when the other guys show up your reserves can rise up from the ground in the middle of their formations. That will fuck up their plans pretty hard.

Zombies make great biological weapons. If your zombies are puetrrefing, just the gas and stink that escapes when they get peirced can gag a man in close quarters, so it's like lobbing tear gas. Non lethal, but it can hinder the enemy so your zombies can have an eaiser time eating them. Then there's the higher risk of disease. Rotting corpses rolled in shit? yeah, that's gonna make someone sick. You need to be a little clever to make that work, since it's long term thing to kill with sickness. Use zombies as a "rear gaurd" since they're too damn slow to fall back when the enemy "totes has you on the ropse" and you fight a running battle with your tireless skeleton horde

That's another thing. Zombies may shamble, but bonebags can move just fine. And they never sleep or eat. They never get tired. An undead army can FUCKING MARCH 24/7. YOU get to decide when and where every fight happens.

If plauge zombies are too long term, try suplementing with some summoning. Get some horrible abyssal flesh eating parasites/carion feeders. Fill your zombies up with them. Zombie gets destroyed and aggressive land lampreys come swarming out set to latching onto and eating the poor bastard that dispatched it.

Bones, leather, and sinew are all fine construction materials. Need seige engines? take apart some of your troops. Need more troops? Win a battle. Undead armies need next to no logistical support. Hell, instead of foraging, PILLAGE. Burn that shit to the ground. Kill some peasants to make more, then let the others flee as refugess that other cities NOW with less food coming from the farms you've already burned, now have to deal with.

>can only control a few skellies at a time
Shit tier necromancer.

Then, when the leaders of the other cities realise they have no choice but to turn the refugees away, youslaugther them all within sight of the city wall and make the soldiers inside either feel cripling shame that demoralizes them, or go mad with lust for vengeance. Angry people are stupid. Stupid people take risks they shouldn't in battle and die.

Zombies and Skeletons don't care about weather, or light. Fight at night in the middle of witner. Fight at the hottest part of the day in the middle of summer. TIRELESS UNDEAD HORDE vs. Meatbags sweating and dehydrating in their heavy metal armor. Doesn't matter if your zombies cant hit their AC if they all pass out from fatigue and are helpless defenders.

If you can animate spirits as well you've got a really good deal going on. Now 1 dead person = 1 souless zombie/skeleton AND 1 incorporeal undead like a shadow or wraith. One dead body, two new soldiers.

Necro armies should be really weak to assassinations. You basically need your necromancer lieutenants to give orders to mindless undead, and if they're killed then the ranks start falling apart.

I mean, general necromancer strategy is attrition warfare, ambush tactics, and logistical subversion. The true advantage of having troops with infinite patience and extremely sparse supply line requirement (Replacement weapons/armour, maybe siege engine componentry) is in their mobility. They can go through the mountain passes and forests that a regular army would avoid, they can march for weeks at a time, they can operate without any chance of resupply at all for prolonged periods, and are capable of going to ground for great lengths of time. They don't rout, and they don't break formations.

So taking all of that into account, it really doesn't matter that the average skeleton could be beaten by the average human, because by the time it comes down to a straight fight, the human army has been cut off from it's supply routes, has no avenue of retreat, and is utterly exhausted and broken from marching.

It doesn't think, it doesn't feel. It doesn't laugh or cry. All it does from dusk 'till dawn is make the soldiers die.

Necromancers aren't known for being easy to kill, but yeah, it's a definite weakness that any decent necromancer lord should think about.

On the other hand, bodyguards who are 100% loyal, never sleep, and can't be distracted.

I wonder how a nation that uses combined undead/living troops would fight. Skellies could basically carry all supplies and stuff.

There's little reason to use living troops except as elite units who do tasks that the undead can't, like operating behind enemy lines. Or, like, they're all multiclass wizards or something.

I'd make heavy use of hierarchical, self-propagading undead. In D&D3, it was wraiths and shadows. You send your front line in, with the intangible creatures in the next rank. Their job is to land killing blows and recruit the enemy dead into your army. The nice thing is that monsters controlled by your own minions don't count towards your own limits.

Why risk living beings in battle? The whole army is skeletons. All workers are skeletons. The living citizens become fat and lazy, the ambitious devoting their lives to study and the layabouts to hedonism. It would be a culture of absolute leisure.

That actually sounds rad

What if the undead can do only simple commands like "attack", "retreat", "haul those boulders there" etc? You'd need some troops to do more complex tasks.

You'd have to keep pretty strict population control though, or be extremely expansionist.

Depends on the abilities of the undeads I guess. Whatever makes a more interesting story.

You'd still want to make light use of human troops, given that most of those orders are what you'd give to your rank and file anyway.

Like, the living would be the knights of this hypothetical army. Heavily armoured, decked out in the best gear money can buy. They are present to act as a highly mobile concentration of force on the tactical battlefield, one that is expected to act autonomously in support of the undead legion meatgrinder/tarpit.

They're generally a liability on the strategic level, unfortunately, but c'est la vie. Or rather, c'est une vieille.

Yeah! Like a totally pragmatic deep-south-during-slavery where everyone is essentially land owning elite, each ruling over their own little plantation and part of a Confederacy of necromancer citizens. That sounds like a super cool libertarian necromancer nation.
Too many offspring means not enough land, or each plantation-state needs to manage it's own clan however it sees fit

Maybe disputes between plantations are about where replacement corpses come from, some use animated statues or golems instead, some are warmongers and raid lesser people in nearby lands, some buy corpses from neighboring nation's in exchange for goods and treaties.

Because of the lack of population but high level of education and learning, culture in that nation is severely lacking so the necromancer elites pantomime cultures that they like, meaning that many would be essentially necromancer weeaboos for whatever exotic culture they latch onto
Fuck this is such a good idea

That sounds like a pretty interesting concept, actually. A good dynamic for a world entity, and a great possibility for political intrigue both within itself and with other nations.

Just having living troops means you can't march forever, like an undead group can, and means you need to worry about logistics.

If you have few enough of them, it's not a huge issue. You can support a couple of elite units with forage alone, in a pinch.

Separated marching could be turned into an advantage. Yes, it involves separating your forces, but on the other hand, you can send a vanguard to the battlefield to pressure the enemy, and then have your knights well-rested when they arrive, to act as shock troops against an opponent who is already exhausted from fighting. It's something you'd want to do anyway, so in this case the disadvantage is almost completely mitigated.

hahaha nigga just make skellies carry the soldiers hahaha

1. Horse archers to harass the enemy forever. Always attacking their supply lines, never stopping.

2. A phalanx to make use of your superior numbers, slow movement and resistance to arrows and stabbing weapons.

3. Zombies would be used similarly depending on how slow they move but they'd also be much better taken care of; their stink, disgusting appearance and stronger muscles would make them far superior as troops.

Skeleton archers or crossbowmen would be horrifying. They can shoot you, but you can't shoot them.

>What if the undead can do only simple commands like "attack", "retreat", "haul those boulders there" etc? You'd need some troops to do more complex tasks.

Laughingmarinecorps.jpg

You just need to make a neat list breaking the big task down into little tasks and take it step by step.

Honestly, the way the south works and the way the US works, the owners of skeleton workers would probably make a sport of hunting the living poor, citing their low economic value in life and their people's genetic predisposition to eating dirt and not working as reasons as to why they need to be culled to enrich the rich.

>1. Horse archers to harass the enemy forever.

Probably not going to work, on account of skellies being kinda dumb, and with horses being dumb in life already, they probably are too dumb to un-life without constantly recking themselves.

They're constructs of will. You can direct them.

They also react slowly and can't fight well. A heavy cavalry charge straight into the (tiny) wizards camp is the best strategy against a necro horde.

That's why any good necromancer should use a few lines of skellington pikemen.

>skellington
Something that can't be trampled by a charger might be better. A shield wall made of living meat, for example.

What if it's minotaur skellingtons?

Skeletons are highly resistant to blades, spears and arrows, IE pretty much everything they're likely to encounter assuming no gunpowder.

Literally just give them knives. 5 skeletons pinning a guy down and stabbing eye slits and armpits is basically unbeatable.

You will literally have to tell them where to put their legs in the case of undead horses.

somewhere in a 3.5 splat for sure. arms and equipment guide i believe.

What is the pic from? Looks rad as shit.

I've seen that before, but it escapes me.

That's not quite a dream sequence, but it doesn't actually happen.

It's probably from Gate: And Thus the JSFD Fought There
Its pretty bad, despite the cool premise

When I see necromancer thread, my dick is diamonds.
Ambushes literally from a fucking ground since undead dont need air.

Since skeletons should be lightweight, group them in tight formations and give them wide range of weaponry:
Basic equipment would consist of shortsword and shortbow.
Frontline third gets bigass shields and pikes or falchions.
Backline gets bucklers and javelins, maybe crossbows.
Guys in middle get halberds and pikes.
I didn't mentioned armor. That's because actual armor is not cheap even if you have miners and smiths that do not rest. So, meatshield gets iron\steel supports for their bones, encapsulating or smithed right into bones. Ribcage is empty - nice slot for explosives, medieval firethrower, etc.
Muscle would have no bones inside. If you can configure it right way, it'll be obnoxious spy\sabouter, because fleshling can fit into tight spaces and bend like hell. Put bottles of poison or oil, caltrops, nice iron sting and metal claws so it could slowly climb shit. Boy will give nightmares to town guard.

Horses should be dead too, add some slings to have no trouble with ammo, so harassment would be literally everlasting.

Just reading this thread makes me want to run a game/play in a game where it's just Necromancers.
I wanna control the battlefield from a mobile tower of bone while slapping animal skeletons on myself to become The Ultimate Lifeform.

they all on a quest to find the most powerful creatures to slay for corpses.

at the end of the campaign keep the character sheets for a new campaign to take down the great lich-gods

>"They've slain all the dragons."
>"Undead dragons? My god."
>"No, just the one dragon, they slapped all their bones together to make some kind of super leviathan. It's very cool."

That kinda reminds me of Bound By Flame setting. Pretty cool, except not connected to a mediocre game.

If you added extra arms to your skeleton could you have pikemen that are also archers? Or would the structure make it not plausible?

Yeah, everyone knows Marines are already that dumb anyways. You've got to keep the commands down to like Int 2 or less.
>Beat Navy

Better have a shield, an axe or hook for hooking enemy's weapon or shield, and two swords for stabby-stabby time.

You can't just add a bunch of shit onto your skeletons, because at that point it would be more efficient to use that material for extra skeletons. But something like just adding an extra pair of arms would be efficient because it lets them be archers as well for just the cost of 2 arms. If you add to much stuff it will be too clustered in the ranks.

That sounds cool as shit.

The main limit for necro-armies I've seen would be how many undead you can bind at once.

Idea: bind a few dozen 'elites' and simply raise unbound zombies. Your elites set up bound hostages and corpse piles to lure the mindless horde, and you communicate with the undead elites magically so you're not at risk.

When the horde descends on a city and the citizens are frantically fleeing inside the walls, one bound elite with a crossbow or acid flask can start a guerilla campaign.

The key to this is that your undead don't need to be micromanaged or augmented, simply raised en-masse. You don't even need to arm them and ideally you'd simply drive-by reanimate anything they killed (after waiting a couple of days to make sure your undead had moved on).

This land is peaceful, its inhabitants kind.

All of these. A normal army needs logistics to function. A high-magic army will instead make use of low-level casters with access to food creation and/or repair cantrips.

A construct or undead army doesn't need food or bedding, but its commanders do. There will most likely be a wagon or cart with tents, food, penis pumps and other necessities for living mages somewhere in the horde.

>a gureilla campaign
>on fleeing citizens
I know what you mean but gureilla warfare is about pressure, threat level, and biding time for when an actual fighting force is built up. Gureilla warfare is purely defensive, based on fear/demoralization.
>penis pumps
Go on

Honestly, the biggest problem in a necro army will be command and control. Not only will the skellingtons have no initiative, they have no basic sense. You either have to have a large officer/necromancer corp to micromanage the army. Or you have set up magical command marcos that let the army act in a predisposed way. Allowing the army to react in rather basic but necessary ways. Attacks, formation advances, targeting specific enemies, etc.

Not to mention the fog of war will wreck havoc with your army for the simple reason of being very top down control style. You're going to have to have the commanders concentrate on eliminating the fog of war or risk losses by ambushes or clever tactics.

The one I'm () think of was about memory diving, or mind control, or some shit. It was powered by borderline-hypnotic motivational speeches, IIRC.

Why is it whenever it comes to raising undead people always focus on corporeal undead?

I would totally get my hands on some banshees, ghosts, and various spectres to harass, possess, and otherwise destroy enemy morale.

I think typically spectral undead are easier to dispell or banish in most fiction.

Salt circles, running water, sunlight etc.

Zombies might not like that in some fiction, but rarely does it totally shut them down.

So what can a newbie necromancer do in d&d? Like how many undead? Can he summon ghosts yet? Etc.

Im a big fan of stitched undead (taking body parts of different things, fusing and reanimating).

Or carving runes into the bones of your skeletons to enhance them.

Also, dumping my takings from an older necromantic terrorism thread.

necromatic bomb used in a public area. It kills people, then immediately reanimates their bodies as uncontrolled undead. Maybe causes the area to be haunted for lasting damage and terror.

>Sneak into large stadium
>Produces zombies from your bags of holding
>Bury zombies
>use some alteration magic to smooth over their shallow graves
>When SPORTS TEAM takes to the field, zombies sense life, rise up and attack.

Fire-and-forget terror cells that only stay long enough to create a single self-replicating undead(ghouls, shadows, vampires), and then leave before anyone realizes it.
They should be ordered to hunt and turn people that won't be missed for at least a week or two, and only if there's no witnesses and they're sure they can get away with it.
Creating permanently-controlled patient zeros is preferred but not necessary as long as you stick around long enough to make sure they can hit critical mass and overrun the village, then bail.
You only need one spellcaster per cell, although a dedicated anti-scryer helps, and a few living bodyguards. If you don't keep any undead with you, it makes it easier to deny in case you get caught.

>Assassin kils major dignitary.
>State funeral goes through the streets
>precession with a heard carrying the nobles' corpse goes past crowds
>Necromancer raises the dignitary in the middle of the parade
>dignitaries' corpse burst out of the hearse, starts attacking thr crowd
>guard are afraid of attacking the corpse in case they're accused of sedition or treason for attacking the body of a noble
>necromancer hides in the crowd running away from the scene
>corpse continues laying waste to defenceless guard until someone with enough authority to okay the attacking of the noble's corpse arrives on the scene

>head to zoo
>go to monkey cages
>circle of death
>use army of zomonky's to engage in guerrilla warfare
>Film the rampage. Upload it to YouTube and call it Revenge of Harambe.

>isolated farmstead
>murder famer, his family and his cows
>raise skelton famer complete with overalls and straw hat
>Raise Zombie cows.
>Order Skelton farmer to milk zombie cows every morning.
>use clairvoyance/audience to capture the reactions of the first fleshbags to stumble on this.

>Rent dockside warehouse
>Hire hobos to come move crates that aren't there.
>Circle of Death.
>Raise zombies
>Permency fog cloud, dancing lights, ghost sound
>order zombies to dance. forever.

If you really want to freak people out, take the ordinary and paint it in a nice gloss ABSOLUTELY HORRIFYING.