What went wrong?

What went wrong?

Pandering to DoW1 fanbase's cries after almost a decade of letting the fanbase get acclimated to DoW2.

People wanted this game back in 2008, '09.
Today, they've all played DoW2, seen the light and wanted more of that, not mostly generic RTS game with 40k setting that was DoW1.

>bait

Well first thing i noticed is only having only 3 factions at launch; even the first DoW had more.

I know this is an unpopular opinion but I 100% agree. They could have atleast put points in. When that added a new game mode and it was just annihilation, that was the last straw for me.

Development hell, it was produced since Space Marine, was at one point MOBA and repurposed in last moment.

Nothing that isn't being fixed. It's a good, enjoyable game when you're not a whining idiot.
There are a lot of units on screen , which is great, factions really embody what they're supposed to be (if you didn't feel the wrath of the imperium when using three whirlwind, the knight and the orbital bombardment while drop pods are falling from the skies I don't know what you fucking need).
The campaign is okay, maybe not so much after the first half. Ridiculous finale but whatever.
It's a large enough scale Warhammer game, which was really dow2's main flaw. The lack of units. Desperate lack of units.
Of course, marines are too skimpy and too fragile, and some factions powers are ridiculous but that's been sorta fixed by increasing cooldowns. I'm waiting for more factions to be implemented so that we finally can have the amazing number of races of dow1.

multiplayer gaming is dying; creating games with it as a focus is a recipe for short lifespan.
they tried to insert both the elements of DoW1 and 2 ending up watering both in what's not a harmonious cooperation with the pace of the gameplay.
they chose a setting loved for its incredible diversity and only put 3 factions with a single intended gameplay for each.
they did so much of a good job with the first trailer that the actual game's artistic direction was a let down all over.


let dawn of war die.
bring up more game like space marines, but also with other factions to play as over the course of the story.

Incorrect. I was waiting for a DOW1 type game. DOW2 was just so boring to me.. Why even call it DOW2 when it had little to do with DOW1?.. Loved the graphics of DOW2 though..

This wa my main issue.. Waiting for some DLC or such to add some more interesting factions.

Loved DOW1 with all the expasions, and the huge list of factions.. Probably wasn't a particularly well balanced game, but it was really good fun.

DoW1 babies were shocked by DoW2 because between this two games Relic released Company of Heroes, which took core DoW gameplay and improved it at every level. Meanwhile DoW3 just shits on decade of linear progress in genre and is just medicore mobaish rts.

If only DoW2 had base building half as well-made as in CoH maybe the game wouldn't have been utter shit.
Oh wait. It didn't. Have. Any.

Never understood why the 'Moba' charge gets hurled only at DoW 3.
2 is basically a really clunky moba that you mostly play single-player.

DoW 2 came before MOBAs became a famous thing. But otherwise, this.

Mainly because DoW2 played more like a top down action RPG like Diablo, where DoW3 was obviously and shamelessly focused on the garbage esports moba crowd and had watered down elements of the previous games, coupled with the shit art style that the devs said they chose so units were more "readable" aka they wanted it to be mimicking of MOBA art styles where it's smooth rounder, cartoonier shapes instead of actually hard edges like what we've been used to.

There are no Tyranids, or Tau, or Chaos, or Necrons. Even with the teaser image at the end I don't have any faith we will get Necrons or any other army.

CoH was 100% better than DoW2, they only had to take CoH, reskin it and add melee, instead they couldn't even do that and added fucking boss battles in a strategy game.

>multiplayer gaming is dying
You don't get out much, do you?

They made a game no one really wanted. It has a few requested features but dumb down to the point that they serve no purpose.

Example is base building. It's really in many ways pointless because you aren't grabbing territory and securing ground the way is plays out it's essentially just a resource and time sync to get new units. That was never the point. All the requested features are hollow like that.

They made the game they though would make the most money with a popular license and token features to try to lure in classic fans. The result was a few interesting but poorly executed new concepts and a bunch of slaps in the face to previous fans. This is why it generates more hate than it probably deserves ( the game is pretty garbage.)

How do you make a 40k game without Chaos.

AUAAAAAAAAGH!

Wait...i tought DoW 1-3 were RTSes not MOBAs? If i knew i'd probably play a WH40K MOBA frankly even tough i loathe games with mouse movement.

when only one faction in your game is fun in a game thats all about massively varied factions something has went horribly wrong

They're supposed to be.

However, DoWIII developers openly stated they modeled the game with some MOBA elements and a similar design philosophy. This is played out pretty noticeably in the game itself.

On a more personal note, it just doesn't look good either. DoWII had its flaws, but imo it captured the aesthetic of 40K very well. This one is far too clean and shiny for my taste.

People who like 40K want to play games that FEEL like 40K. That's why games like Battlefleet Gothic and Space Hulk: Deathwing are still relatively popular and well-received by the 40K community, because both - while far from perfect games - made a concerted effort to look and feel like they were set in the 40K universe.

>took core DoW gameplay and improved it at every level

Did you play DoW? They abandoned it's gameplay style completely. What they actually did was try to make CoH with 40k units, but ended up with a clunky mish-mash.

They should have gone more for WCIII + 40k instead.

THATS EXACTLY WHAT THEY DID FOR DAWN OF WAR THREE

> Awesome announcement trailer introduces a new visual/thematic direction, then the actual game is the complete opposite of it
> Only three factions, the same bland ones we've seen over and over in ever single 40k game
>single player is a half baked training regiment for multiplayer
>multiplayer tries to appeal to both DoW1 and DoW2 playstyles, plus pander to Esport moba fags, resulting in a slurry watered down by compromise in such a way none of the intended audiences like it
> Only one game mode and hand full of maps on release
>Different voice actors for returning characters
>Fluff rape

They tried to make a game for everyone, and ended up making one for no one.

I actually like DoW3, but if I had to pick a major flaw, it would be this. The game felt unfocused at launch, like they wanted something in between 1 and 2, but weren't sure what that should actually look like. It feels like they're slowly getting on the right track though with Annihilation mode and the new maps.

>single player is a half baked training regiment for multiplayer
pic related

>muh generalizations

The developers clearly went into the game with a focus on MOBA gameplay, then added in generic RTS gameplay which is why DoW 3 plays more like a run of the mill Command and Conquer game. That isn't necessarily a bad thing since it can be entertaining as a game full of spammable units, but it lacked the flare and charm of DoW 1 and the depth and charisma of DoW 2.

As a result, people refunded in massive numbers.

If you played the last mission, you would agree with the consensus that the game originally had a MOBA focus. Developers generally make the last mission first, and the first mission last as a showcase.

except DoW2 was nothing like CoH you mouth breather

It needs improvement, which in fairness the devs actually do realize how bad they fucked up and are working on fixing the problems.

Too little too late imo. The community was extremely vocal about their disapproval of the art style and gameplay mechanics that were revealed a full year in advance and Relic just continued to ignore them and keep saying how "amazing" their shitty turd of a game was despite everyone on the net saying they hated how it looked so far. Saying that they want to listen to the fans they told to Fuck off previously won't work now

What was the last mission like?

So, basically:

Dawn of War 3 is what happens when you base an entire game around Last Stand and decide to add DOTA elements so that it can get microtransactions, then decide to make it a full-fledged RTS?

Shockingly complicated for an RTS. The second half of the level is a raid boss fight with the big bad demon, with its own unique fight mechanics which do not exist anywhere else in the game. This just isn't done in 99% of video games because the part of the challenge of designing campaign gameplay is to have the player learn the skills necessary to beat the final level throughout the course of the campaign.

The developers invested a lot of creative mechanics into the final boss fight. There is no other believable explanation for this.

Not really, considering there's no last stand (or anything similar to it, except for maybe the last mission of the campaign), not much in the way of MOBA elements, and no microtransactions (all the new content has been Free-LC thus far).

>no last stand

Shifted focus of game development to traditional RTS gameplay. They said they would work on a last stand mode after release, but the bulk of post-release complaints has been about core RTS gameplay so they are now focusing on improving that to bring people back.

>not much in the way of MOBA
too many heroes and perks to believe otherwise, not even considering last mission gameplay and node map gameplay

>no microtransactions

Can't charge people who quit the game.

>too many heroes and perks to believe otherwise

There are RTS with that. I mean, SpellForce had a massive RPG-style tree for each of it's heroes and improving the skills of heroes is a lot of the appeal of Heroes of Might and Magic.

Yeah, with a team like this, how could anything go wrong?

Oh so its an RPG now?

RTS/TBS (In the case of Heroes) with improving heroes is not remotely a new thing.

A MOBA isn't just an RTS with heroes, it's an RTS that is entirely geared around the control of a single hero. If anything, DoW2 is a lot closer to a MOBA than DoW3, with the leveling up and wargear systems it had for it's characters.

Except its not improving heroes in the traditional sense of RTS/TBS over the course of a map campaign. Its unlockable perks ala MOBA progression.

Obviously they transitioned from MOBA to RTS, as stated, hence the lack of microtransactions. But the skeleton of the game and what it started as is obvious

>If anything, DoW2 is a lot closer to a MOBA than DoW3, with the leveling up and wargear systems it had for it's characters.

In their current versions, sure. No one disputes that DoW 3 is a MOBA first and RTS second, but DoW 3 was invested heavily with MOBA design which ultimately affected the final product.

>Too little too late imo.

I don't believe in such a thing, to me there is always opportunity to redeem oneself if you're willing to put forth the effort. I blame my christian upbringing on this, the whole "god always gives a second chance"

That picture was taken for an anti-bullying campaign. The most passive, uncontroversial thing to be supportive of.

Call of Duty is a MOBA?

You have literally no evidence of this other than the final mission being MOBA-esque, which doesn't prove anything other than they thought that was a good way to do the final mission. If they really did intend for it to be a full-on MOBA, we would see significantly more MOBA elements in the game such as
>heroes leveling up over the course of a game
>item shops, wargear options, etc for heroes
>heroes have 3 normal abilities and 1 ultimate
Again, DoW2 has more of these elements than 3 does.

>In their current versions, sure. No one disputes that DoW 3 is a MOBA first and RTS second, but DoW 3 was invested heavily with MOBA design which ultimately affected the final product.
>In their current versions, sure. No one disputes that DoW 3 is a MOBA first and RTS second
There are multiple posts in this very thread disputing this (including this one).

I'm seriously starting to wonder if anyone in this thread has actually played a MOBA. Seriously, go play DotA or LoL, they're very different from DoW3.

Agreed. I figure if the shitstorm that was Eternal Crusade's launch can survive the 40k community's wrath, DoW3 probably can as well.

Anything you don't like is now a MOBA.

As far /v/ is concerned, it means "our gamecfucking sucks because we are lefties".
Stupid, I know.

>Anti-bullying campaign
>Literally a campaign to bully people on the internet
Do you not understand what's wrong with this?

The skirmish mode is basically entirely a MOBA.

Correction: The Power Core mode have MOBA objetives. The rest is still RTS.

The rest is MOBA on manual. The gameplay in and of itself is an industry example for generations of developers to analyze - specifically, why its a bad idea to just let players control the trash units on a MOBA map.

Pretty sure they directly adapted the cover system from COH, Maybe the suppression system too, The problem isnt that DOW 2 used stuff from COH its that it didnt use enough stuff from COH its objectively the better RTS.

e-sports

Chaos is the main antagonist, you retard.

Orks are too cartoony.

Boyz don't sound like badasses.

This was popularized hardest by Warcraft 3, which DotA rips nearly all of its progression and mechanics from. Everything from unique attack modifiers to the global speed cap is a relic of the WC3 mod.

I for one, likes the fact that Deathwing has put out actual content rather than just skins and maps like DoW 3.

Hopefully the console release at the end of this year will bring players back to the game now that the bugs are fixed.

Meanwhile DoW 3 Necron's expansion has been put on hold by Sega, probably forever since they won't greenlight anything until the game gets good again, which it won't without a substantial release.

for RTS games, they absolutely are. Blizzard makes tons of shekels with commanders for single player co op mode.

>Moba on manual
you mean a regular RTS

like what? It used nearly every mechanic from coh1 except capturable crew weapons and added a bunch of it's own mechanics.

Skins and maps are actual content for a game with an active MP component. CoH2 manages to do just fine with occasional map shuffles and DLC commanders.

SC2-tier of micro.
I play DoW games because they are comfy, DoW3 is just an apm fest because of how fragile your standard units are.
The basebuilding part is so barebone it may as well not exist.
Also this The game feel like a chinese counterfeit 40k game where they copied the aesthetic without understanding the appeal behind it.
The overall subpar voice acting does not help.

I love how Deathwing is following the same route as E.Y.E.: shit at release, then start to release multiple update that make the game progressively better.

Base building is exactly the same as it was in dawn of war 1. It added nothing to the gameplay. This game ain't starcraft.

That is true. Still feel like it risks not being enough to win back enough hearts to gave the Necron expansion in development.

Same here user, the Chaplain update is already quite a step in the righr direction.

>cyber-bullying
>real

it probably won't unless relic does regular expansions instead of DLCs. If anything the entire incident proves to SEGA that focusing on RTS games is a waste of resources

You're fucking retarded.
The dev team said there won't be any DLC right now for $ because it was deemed "inappropriate".

In other words their PR department calculated the additional damage to their brand by charging for shit they cut from the original game wasn't worth the money they'd make from what few whales they actually have.

This is the calculation that shitshows like Evolve failed to get right.

DOW3's main problem is the total lack of build diversity and the retarded amounts of CC on most units. Boyz, a 330rq unit and the second cheapest non-builder in the game can stun on charge an imperial knight. If the game actually obeyed some common sense we'd see a much better health since you'd get less cheese but since the basics haven't been covered all you get is mono-build cheese strats normally focused around abusing 1 or 2 units and whatever racial abilities you have that multiply your army strengths. Waagh, drop pods, banner, aoe taunts, stuns, etc.

Coincidentally since eldar have almost no CC at all they slip on the power curve and are almost completely unused now. The game is only 90 days old and it's a total fucking trainwreck with one guy reaching rank 1 in 1v1, 2v2 and 3v3 all on the back of abusing scout grenades.

Did she just format her phone? Boy she must be mega pissed.