What do you think of half-dragons?

You play Iron Kingdoms, don't you?

Nope. Not familiar with it at all.

Totally fine with them.

But then I have a setting where much of the world is run by a small number of angels/demons/dragons, halfbreeds are the upper class, and plain humanoids are the masses of peasants.

Perfectly fuckable

>Generally played by special snowflakes who need an excuse to have special powers
user, you are confused, we're talking about half dragons, not wizards.

Or half-elves, or half-orcs, or halflings.

Wizards are usually played munchkins who want to be powerful because they've mastered the rules of a particular system.

Half Dragons are usually played by... whatever the opposite of munchkins is, people who wana be powerful because they have an excuse to be special enough to just ignore the rules.

They're both equally cancerous.

If body hair doesn't fall out for them, I imagine that having scales come in would be even more uncomfortable.

I haven't a Mutants and Masterminds game where one of the PC's has draconic powers. It didn't look so bad on paper, but the first time she uttered "Fuck you, I'm a dragon" I realized what a terrible mistake I had made. She's disruptive, violently impulsive and sets fire to literally everything, all they while muttering "Fight me, I'm a dragon, you can't stop me, I'm a dragon".

She's barely holding on to the rest of the hero team's support, and the speedster actively wants to put her down.

She's a great player, for the most part, this just feels like her shitty fanfic self-insert character.

Wizards are usually played by people who want to be special for no work, user. That is the primary advantage of being a wizard- you get to be more special than anyone else, no matter who or what they are.

We're not in the old days.
Being a broken wizard requires no system mastery, and instead a quick google.

Sounds like the character needs a good hard dicking

I didn't bring it up, because it was barely relevant, but she's a raging lesbian, both in and out of character.

Inferior to half-scorpions.

>equally
Nothing can match a wizard in that regard.
Or any other regard.

Seriously, you don't see half dragons consuming a huge portion of every book released. You know who does? Wizards. That is ACTUAL cancer behavior.

Welp, I'm out of ideas

Why are half dragons special in your settings?
Like, do none of you idiots do pre-game planning? One of my most successful techniques is making whatever the players chose some of the most common races.

I want to fuck that maid.

That just reinforces what he said.

It's equally as cancerous to read none of the books and pretty much try to free-form your way through the campaign with your shitty deviantart or tumblr """original""" character.

That is significantly less like a cancer in behavior.
I think you mean "I dislike it equally".
Wizards have actual cancerous behavior that is readily visible in book space.

You don't see laser rifles consuming half the content in every book written, but I'm still going to call someone a faggot if they run around the typical swords-and-magic campaign going "pew pew" the entire time and acting like a space marine.

Well, yeah, it's fine to dislike it.
Though you are kind of dumb for not doing
Also for not using old fashioned science fantasy.

They're young, user.
They don't remember the time when fantasy and sci-fi were the same thing, and you shot the evil wizard with your laser gun before rescuing the two headed lizard princess.

>Letting players choose some of the most common races.

Oh...
Oh no...

>I recruit players from places I don't like
>Why is it going poorly? What have I done wrong?

Especially in attractiveness.

I would totally allow them if they gained their features as they level instead of boom instantly. When the character matures so does his heritage, sadly very few games do this.

Not that user, but 9 years of DMing has taught me that sometimes the people you think are going to be the most reasonable reveal some very deviant things about themselves once you start playing.

That's why you do pre-game planning and session zero, user.

It sucks most games just make them flat mechanically awful.

Thats because treating race like a second character class is a very clunky and disjointed mechanic. Pathfinder tried this with a few expansions and it was a disaster.

Part of pre-game planning is setting limits on what exists in your world and what the general tone and power level of the world is. Personally I think it's healthy for a DM to say no to shit like half-dragons, catgirls, demons, half-angels, vampires, ect.

It's OK for you to say no, but also, if you always say no to these things you are kind of a shit who will never have a sunless sea or science barbarian situation going on.
Heck, you won't even have a shadowrun.

Why? It could be as easily as: "Spend this feat at 1st level and only 1st level, when you have X HDs you gain this, when you have X+Y HDs you gain this, when you have X+Y+Z HDs you gain this, etc", I don't see it that difficult

What do you imagine Draconic Sorcerers, Dragon Disciples, etc. do to develop draconic traits? Do you picture it occurring naturally and unavoidably after they've discovered their magical capability? Or is it something that requires concentrated effort, meditation, and introspection? Something else?

Introduce a good guy antagonist who goes after her specifically because of that attitude or even better, because of her draconic heritage. Make a whole, her father is an evil dragon known for plans within plans. The person trying to kill her is genuinely honourable and will protect the weak. She just has to die to stop her father's plan #213 to take over the entire universe.

Because they are seen as special snowflakes for some reason, and special snowflakes need to be shit upon for some reason.
God forbid you just make them... not special to begin with.

I love how often I hear this garbage defense, but the people spouting it can never seem to just play a race that actually exists in the setting, for all their claims of not wanting to be "that special".

In 3.PF it was like spend bazillion feats to get minor stuff that only works if you're a caster, they never worthy the feat spent even if you were caster.

It's a pretty solid defense.
You control the setting. Why not just make them, you know, common and not special?
This is the easiest thing in the world, and you people act like it's some kind of impossible magic.

This, if you don't wana be a snowflake, just play a human. Your character doesn't need the blood of a super powerful magical creature to be interesting or playable.

>humans
Fucking snowflakes.
The only humans are centuries old cybernetic immortals.
No, if you want to be normal you play a catgirl.

I actually do that, if players are a "thing" surely there must be other "things" like them around. Those who aren't shitty players don't care...well, as long as I do not carbon copy their character, but I would be mad too if a GM made Me 2.0 twenty times

depends on the setting

they can work as enemies or boss characters but I would probably never let my players run them

Well, yeah, it's the reasonable thing to do. The only time anything is a special snowflake is if you, the GM, want it to be a special snowflake.

Cool, so you're now allowing your players to force an entirely new race into your game because they're not content playing a race that already exists. And said race they're trying to shove in just happens to read like a bad deviantart mary sue with super special blood from a super powerful magical creature. But yeah, it's totally fine if they're "common", as long as I get to play one. That makes everything OK!

I mean, I guess if you're playing some weeb game like BESM or Pathfinder where it's basically an anime all the time.

user, you're allowed to say no if it's really shit.
But, again, if you think something like a half dragon is really shit, you yourself are kind of a shit.

>Be accused of always playing weird races
>Ask to prove it
>Group and GM surprised when 99% of my chars are humans after going through all my characters sheets who I careful kept
Well, this happens when you imagine things intead of using your eyes. Just because I mention outside the games how cool something is doesn't mean I actually play that thing. I only play humans, they're too good in 3.PF to not be played. But people is too angry about elves (actually any non human race) and the moment you mention them you're tainted.

Double funny when they're the ones who play halforcs, dwarves, and almost never humans but accuse you of playing non humans only.

>Muh setting
Write a book.

Why do you make them have super special powers, user?
You're the GM, aren't you?
Do you want them to be a special snowflake that badly?

Ok, which systems are we talking? because half dragon isn't new in tons of them, specially those who get mentioned in Veeky Forums everyfucking time. I feel like you're trying to build a non issue out of a strawman.

D&D dragons are sort of famous for fucking everything.
Honestly, if we're looking at it logically, a huge portion of the population should have enough dragon in them to be 'half' dragon. Assuming it works like tieflings do.

You guys are shit DMs then if you don't let me play my Hedgehog space marine with time/space manipulating powers and he's also half god and also can't be killed and also gets a racial modifier of +9001 in every stat.

>I control the setting, so I'm going to give these guys all sorts of special powers, then accuse them of being snowflakes.
why?

Tieflings aren't half demons though, they go from 1/16 demon to 1/10000000000000000000000 demon. Half demons are Cambions or shit like that.

> if we're looking at it logically, a huge portion of the population should have enough dragon in them to be 'half' dragon

And this is why there is an entire race and a sorcerer archetype for it in 5e

So he can get angry about it and post it on Veeky Forums.

>jumps to the most extreme possible exaggeration of an example he can think of
ah, so
was right and you were strawmanning.

At least someone knows what he's talking about.

>entire race
Which race? Dragonborn? Dragonborns have nothing to do with humans or other races, they were created that way, like Elves or Orcs, they aren't half dragon half something.

>half dragon is equivalent to hedgehog space marine time breaker
I think you might have had a stroke. That's the only way I can imagine someone would have that wacked out a "shit's bad" scale.

They're significantly more than half dragon.
We're talking about like 80% here.

>I control the setting, so I'm going to give these guys all sorts of special powers, then accuse them of being snowflakes.
why?

Mary-Sues,Special Snowflakes, sometimes even both.

>All these shits crying special snowflake over half dragons
I've had much weirder and it was great. One of the races I've seen done great is intelligent colonies of clothing and armor.

Half dragons? Rather fuckable, if I do say so myself.
Though I'm left to question whether they'd be good the standard generic fantasy setting. In that context, it screams special snowflake, and first impressions are only made once. It'll be hard to overcome that bias, no matter how unjust, even if the character is well written.
The struggle of most characters is to improve (ie acquire power in some form be it martial or otherwise), and address the problems they have with themselves and their actions. Perhaps you could turn this on its head. Rather than trying to acquire power, a big portion of the struggle is learning to control power, and actually suffering severe consequences for not being able to manage it properly. I mean real consequences that actually negatively affect you and the party, just like if any other party member crit failed. Only it was a terrible crit success. There's also the opportunity for the classic "what does it mean to be human" theme, but that's been done to death so if you want it to shine, it better be damn good.

The problem is that this sort of shit really feels like it belongs more in a work of written fiction, as opposed to the collaborative environment that is a tabletop game. It draws the spotlight onto the half dragon.
And frankly, it still feels kinda faggoty just based on the fact that it's a half dragon. But what can I say? I'm racist.

I think it could be done well. It would require a group with great synergy and a roleplayer who really knows what they're doing, but it could be done.

Obviously, I'm just basing all of my shit on assumptions and gut reaction. If your setting has normalized catgirls? Sure, whatever floats your boat. But I don't see it flying very well in the generic fantasy setting where dragons are rare, super powerful creatures. People walk into this shit with assumptions, and it's already been said: that's what session 0 is for.

>When you played a soul cursed into an armor when you were a kid back in middleschool
>When years later FMA gets releases and you can't sue them for stealing your idea

If it's good enough for lucha underground, it's good enough for me.
And lucha lets you play FULL dragons, to boot. And space men. And robots. And necromancers. And immortal midgets.

>Your example is more extreme than mine even though they use the exact same logic, so you're wrong! My Dragon waifu could never be that bad!

The Snowflake defense force is really showing their stuff today.

>I control the setting, so I'm going to give these guys all sorts of special powers, then accuse them of being snowflakes.
why?

To be fair, that actually sounds like it could be really neat. It's an intelligent idea that would be difficult to execute on, leading one to believe the player must actually have a plan to pull it off. It's not something the average person who plays special snowflakes is interested in doing because it's a lot of work and doesn't make the character and extension of their person, but a colony organism.

Your standard (or rather, non-standard) mix of whatever is easy to come up with and I have seen far more terrible, TERRIBLE executions of it than I have seen good ones. The stigma isn't entirely unfounded. Only unfair to those who didn't deserve it.

I'm just saying that people who cry snowflake on something as mundane as a half dragon have never had the joys of a man who is just skin filled with moths.

>half dragon is equivalent to hedgehog space marine time breaker
Like, that is why I included the "if it's really shit" clause.
And you are sort of a huge shit if you think they are equivalent.

The argument was never that they were equivalent, the argument was that they were justified via the same patterns of broken logic.

I suppose. I guess my problem isn't people being special, persay, it's when that specialness is their only redeeming quality, or they are so far beyond the boundaries of the setting that it's just too special.
By contrast, a special snowflake just melts away when you subtract whatever makes them special. Poorly written, self insert, very sensitive, generally the best with little to no effort. You know the type. We all do. I hope.
So I'm not about to exclude stuff just for being special, provided it's well written. Just please don't make me rewrite shitloads to justify it.

>Setting has half dragons
>Setting doesn't have hedgehogs space marine time breakers
>If you allow the former by the same logic you have to allow the later
The fuck is wrong with your brain?

It's only broken if you strawman it and don't include clauses like "if it's really bad".
Like, that is a dictionary definition of a strawman. You remove a part of the argument, and then exaggerate it as much as possible to make it look dumb.

The only reason you could argue it's not a strawman is if you legitimately think they are equivalent.

That's why I tend to make whatever players choose common races. They no longer are special then.
You can always veto the hedgehogs, but if you're vetoing pretty tame shit like half dragons, I have to say you're crying wolf.

These posts are were the topic should have ended to be honest, but instead we get 80+ posts of tumblrinas and underaged posters trying to defend why THEIR snowflake is different and should be allowed.

I think I honestly preferred Veeky Forums when it was all autistic grognards, over this nu-gen crowd of weeaboos and underaged posters we have now.

>asspained autist unable to differentiate between hedgehogs and half dragons is also unable to run a session zero

But user, in the old days you had heroes with laser guns and swords rescuing two headed lizard women from the great zod with the help of their hawk man friend.

Get out of here you oldfag!

You're not wrong tho.

He's a millenial, user, he doesn't remember old fantasy.
To him, 1st ed D&D is old.

This is a good brand of special snowflake.

After all, it's only things that I like that should be allowed.

Somehow that stuff was still slightly more bearable than the cesspit Veeky Forums is now.

It was always a cesspit, but the shit stinks just a little bit more now, and comes up high enough to seep into your boots.

But user, in early Veeky Forums we had much wilder races.
The whole "humans only" thing is something newfags do.

And the nu-male thing is something /pol/ does.

That's probably because you weren't born yet.

I like how nobody had the balls to respond to this guy after he demonstrated the other guy was literally using strawmen, and instead the other guy started shitposting.

This is Veeky Forums. If you can't argue with someone, the standard way of replying is shitposting.
Actually, the standard way of replying is shitposting.

This is true.