/ccg/ Custom Card General /cct/

>an offensive card using Remembrance
Thanks user, I'm glad you made this. It's a really excellent common. I'll admit I haven't made more than one card that can be used offensively with Remembrance but I'm not using it in a set so I'm not working with it constantly.

I don't really want to make another card till I see another keyword/mechanic to work with, but if the thread peters out again I'll toss something up.

Yeah. I just wanted to post the old card while i install the new card editor. I do remember that I needed to change the mana cost for the activation cost now. Have the rest of my stupid attempts at my ravnica/megaman cards. Hybrid mana activation costs and under costed casting costs abound.

I just don't like the Aftermatch cards I guess.

...

I do also realize they they are all uncommons. That was unintentional.

...

Just kind of spitballing how exactly to do this. I like the idea of having equipment subtype defined by using colored mana to do something in setting but I'm not sure which of these designs is more interesting. I like the 3 cost one because it's simpler but the flavor is a little off as the colored mana is what "powers" it. But the 2 drop feels a lot less elegant.

This is clever. Bonus point.

Ah, I haven't drafted in a bit so I'm not 100% up on Amonkhet cards. Point taken. I suppose in that case it's probably alright.

I realized the Equipment token mechanic was something I could make a card with for the thread theme, so here we go.

I'll look at these more in-depth in a moment.

"Draw a card and reveal it" is patched wording for an old mechanic. I didn't see any recent versions in my quick check, so I'd avoid using it. I'd do the Coiling Oracle thing instead, keeping noncreature nonland and pitching the rest. Ritualism seems fine. I'll see what I can do with it in a bit.

I wouldn't put a hexproof anthem at common like this myself.

Again, I'd do the Coiling Oracle thing here, but it's a bit less necessary since it basically works like Miracle.

I think the first one is more viable because having Equip costs tied to a single color sort of defeats the purpose of them being colorless, whereas the first one just rewards you and that feels more playable overall.

I guess I should have explained the flavor. The idea is that the "guns", effectively wands, in the setting are used as a way to channel and weaponize mana. I like the idea of equipment that gets better if you use colored mana in some way with it to portray that, and it's kind of a thing equipment hasn't really done. The idea is that you get the most basic reward of equipment (the pump) on the 3 drop just by playing it, but if you pay the W you get the colored ability on equip. The other one is longer and less elegant (also a little less interesting conceptually, but that's not entirely important) but more correctly hits the flavor by giving a bonus effect when "charged" with the correct mana.

Since this'd probably be a small cycle, maybe even just these, I kind of also like the idea of the rootwalla/shade/firebeathing/etc. effect somehow being tied to it instead of pump + keyword.

Okay, here we go.

>Borosman
Pretty straightforward. Seems fine.
>Dimirman
Ninjutsu in Dimir? That's odd. Though I guess Cipher is kinda garbage and Transmute doesn't do much for your theme. Card seems okay though, aside from the hybrid cost on the ability.
>Golgariman
Dredge is so hard to build around, though I guess Scavenge is kinda crappy for not!Megaman to get. Still, it'd work, since he'd have the ability in the yard if I'm not mistaken.
>Gruulman
Another one that loses a bit when interacting with Izzetman. Still, repeatable fight is very strong, and I'd upcost it a bit on this maybe.
>Orzhovman
Kinda bland, but it works, except that hybrid cost again. Though you did mention it, to your credit. You probably should have fixed them before you posted though.
>Selesnyaman
Hard to judge. I feel like there should be anotehr caveat to the copy ability. Also it's not really GW since GW copies tokens, not base creatures.
>Simicman
Okay on its own, but bad with Izzetman.
>Azoriousman
Meh. Not very good sorry to say. Gaining flying is pretty boss at least.
>Rakdosman
Again, should probably be flashier. Maybe give it the Sengir Vampire ability?

Oh I know what a Caster is; I've watched Outlaw Star. I'm just trying to advise against tying Equip costs to monocolor because it limits the card a lot, and kinda sucks in a draft environment. Have you considered the instant-Equip colored cost Equipment cards from the original Mirrodin yet as a potential reward system for spending colored mana? That might be a good place to draw some inspiration from as well.

Have a Ritualism card, in keeping with the theme.

>How's prepping for the impending school year going? Sounds as if free time is at a premium.
It's keeping me busy, definitely. That and life. I have total creative control over designing my curriculum, which is awesome but also a lot of work and responsibility and whatnot.
>Teachers in the US have it rough, assuming that's where you are.
Yeah, I am. Indiana, specifically.
>Shackles of Ire
The red ability just seems like a roundabout way to tap the enchanted creature. But tapping the creature is useful, and the way you're using the red ability to do so is pretty clever. I like it.
Cute, but maybe too cute. The creature discard then draw is flavorful enough, I feel.
I like it.
I think it's fine. I'm honestly not sure.
Solid, but a bit much for an NWO common. Uncommon, more likely.

Card for the thread theme

...

Another way to do the flavor
Yes it's almost exactly the same idea as outlaw star. Also I feel the design on the right is really fine-- you get the pump just automatically, and youget the color specific ability for paying the colored mana. It feels correct to me. It's kinda like creatures who have an off color activation in a sense. You still get the p/t boost, but you get an extra benefit if you're in that color. Not sold on any particular way yet, just explaining the logic.

>That and life
I recalled you stating you were having some issues IRL. I didn't want to pry though so I didn't ask. Hope things shape up.
>Shackles
Yeah, I hoped it'd be at least a little cute.
>AEtherwright
Yeah if it only copied Equipment it'd be easier to balance, but I didn't want to design a card like that.
>Dreamsealer
That's fair. Dampen Thought is an uncommon anyway.
>Runner
More offensive uses of Remembrance. Love it. You might be able to make it RR though, honestly. It doesn't have trample, and is only 1 more power than Spark Elemental. Also, Lightning Elemental costs 3R, which is pretty close resource demand-wise to 1RR. Could potentially look at Menace for it too.

I am so bad at judging Storm cards, I'm sorry. I do have to say though that I feel like a Storm card that can copy things is dying to be broken in half.

These might also work better, but I do still suggest you check those Mirrodin cards I mentioned.

Reckon I'll do an Equipment that requires colored mana though to get a "bonus" to keep with the theme some more.

This feels like it has abilities thrown on for value. I'd find some way to consolidate the middle two, so it looks like it only has 3 rather than 4 abilities.

This is fucking spicy as hell. Get me milk.

...

Agree with this, but an interesting angle wouls be to pay U to do something like, say, gain flying until end of turn on etb, plus the curiosity ability while equipped. The idea of paying a color for an immediate temporary effect that has synergy with the equipped ability is an interesting design space, kinda split card ish Not sure how many of those there are that exist though with that overlap.

I don't think remembrance needs to say "other creature". You can only activate it from a graveyard, where it's a "creature card", not a "creature".

Not a bad idea. I'll admit the Prowess was just kinda tossed on there because it's not on an Equipment yet I don't think. The flying idea is a good one too. Could also make it care about the color of mana spent to pay the Equip cost; thoughts?

Uh... doesn't Tribute need something else there? There's no reason for them not to Tribute it because making it not come back with Undying isn't really much benefit to them.

It doesn't say "other creature"; it's "other abilities" because you don't want to give it Remembrance.

Maro would probably get pissed, but fuck it.

>"Draw a card and reveal it" is patched wording for an old mechanic. I didn't see any recent versions in my quick check, so I'd avoid using it. I'd do the Coiling Oracle thing instead, keeping noncreature nonland and pitching the rest.
Well, I've always prefered the "draw and reveal" because it interacts with cards that check draws for effectslike Niv-Mizzet and stuff like that, but I do agree that it is quite an old way to wording it.

>I wouldn't put a hexproof anthem at common like this myself.
I just couldn't think of a good common. I'm really bad at designing them, specially thanks to the NWO.

>Again, I'd do the Coiling Oracle thing here, but it's a bit less necessary since it basically works like Miracle.
Now that you said it, I guess that the wording in this one could leave space to cheating because you don't reveal the draw. I'll change it to the Coiling Oracle text in this case.

That's a nice way to do Ritualism in Dimir.

Nice card, team

...

BUUUMMMP

I feel like the +X/+X in this might require G somewhere, but I'm not entirely sure.

Cool use of Remembrance.

I still feel like Ritualism is just too broad to really be useful as an ability word.

Casters? Like, the magic guns from Outlaw Star? Anyway, I'm with the other guy, making equip cost a color seems really contradictory to what equipment are supposed to be. After that, the ETB stuff really confuses me. Like, I'm not even sure how that works in terms of flavor.

Eh, I'd prefer the card in RW, since I feel like that color combo is more in-tune with Equipment than UR. Could just be me though.

Interesting. I do have to say though, why does Remembrance say "all other abilities"? It's not like the creature will continue to have any of the abilities Remembrance gives it if it hits the graveyard.

Why exiled? Also, you don't have to say "face-up" since only face-up cards in exiled have any properties, ie. card types.

>I do have to say though, why does Remembrance say "all other abilities"? It's not like the creature will continue to have any of the abilities Remembrance gives it if it hits the graveyard.
But some players might think a creature would retain those abilities, and reminder text's primary function is to eliminate confusion.
>Julian Keller
I like how prowess organically fuels the activated ability. Solid.

Guess what trailer I saw recently. Tried to go for a more simplistic take. And yeah, he doesn't have his hammer, I'm making that a separate card. Wondering if I should allow the player to move the top card somewhere if it isn't an Equipment, instant, or sorcery. Draw doesn't seem very mR, maybe tuck or mill?

>reminder text
I still think it's unnecessary, but you do whatever you feel is best.
>Julian Keller
That's what I was aiming for. Thanks.

Trying to figure out costs on this, unsure if I should change the numbers on the ability to make it once per turn, or add something else to it so it isn't completely lacking if drafted for monoblack.

>because you don't want to give it Remembrance.
It doesn't matter if you give it remembrance because remembrance only functions in the graveyard.

I guess I'd suggest uncommon, make the ability cost two hybrid R/W, and give Menace.

Also, no offense, but why are you using the old frame?

He knows that, shown here he just wants to cut down on all possible confusion. Personally I think he's going overboard with it, but hey, it's his card.

>except its name still Sakashima the Impostor
kek

>I still feel like Ritualism is just too broad to really be useful as an ability word.
I do agree that ritualism is a too broad, but there are lots of other mechanics that are also too broad like kicker or split cards. I really wanted a G/U exile-matters mechanics, tho.

>Why exiled? Also, you don't have to say "face-up" since only face-up cards in exiled have any properties, ie. card types.
Because you'll be exiling a lot of your own cards in G/U, thanks to Ritualism. Also, I removed the face-up, thanks.

Whoops.

Not sure how I feel about the inclusion of Menace here, though I do think the ability will be more reasonable with double hybrid.

As for the old frame, I hadn't gotten around to installing the new ones yet.

I recommended Menace because you wanted to add something for mB. I mean, the problem is with the ping, since it has implications for some other keywords.

Deathtouch? Yeah, right.
Lifelink? Makes sense for W, not so much for R.

After that, we get Haste, Trample, Flying, and FStrike. FStrike I don't really like seeing with the ping, it just makes me question why it has both. Flying doesn't begin to make sense. Trample on a 1/1 feels odd. Haste... I'm not entirely sure why, but it just rubs me the wrong way on this card.

Yeah, that's sensible. I do like Menace as a basic thing on it, even if it doesn't quite mesh together.

I do think there is some synergy there though, luring out chump blockers and zapping them.

I understood his reasoning. I could sew someone getting confused and trying to double up

Rolled 3, 9, 10, 6 = 28 (4d10)

Might as well post this and roll. I've been thinking Spiders recently, so let's see if I can incorporate them somehow. I'm going to skip rolling for color though, since Spiders are pretty much always G.

Rolled 3, 6, 8, 8 = 25 (4d10)

>Sorcery, token generation, CMC X, uncommon
Hmm, I think I'll do Spiders once more.

Rolled 6, 6 = 12 (2d6)

roll

Rolled 3, 8, 9 = 20 (3d10)

Rolling for type, mechanic and theme on hardmode.

It's also UR because since Chandra's Revolution I guess that Wizards wants to give Red some form of mana denial nowadays.

>his
Sexist

Now in gender neutral flavor.

>their
Grammatically incorrect...ist

wrong

singular they has been legit for centuries, if not more. People who care about grammar accept singular they, people who care about politics make a fuss over it because making pointless stupid noise is all they know how to do.

In the context of MTG wording, it's incorrect. MTG uses "his or her."

Cool story bro. Tell it to Wizards so they change their policy for Magic wording. Until then, you're wrong, and he's right.

It was just a goddamn joke, calm down.

So I have been doing the design for an entire weird west set with me and a buddy. I want to talk about it in general terms here. So first the new card type and new keywords:

>New Card Type
>Firearm
Firearm is a new artifact type. All firearms are equipment, and all firearms have the keyword Ammo. For instance the card Double Barreled Shotgun has Ammo 2 on it, meaning it comes into play with two ammo counters on it. Every firearm has a tap ability to spend an ammo counter to do something, this varies by card. At the beginning of your uptap step, if a firearm is untapped, you put an additional ammo counter on it (meaning you can only reload the firearm on turns you do not use it).

>New Keywords
>Quick loader
If a creature with Quickloader 2 has a firearm equipped the firearm, when it would gain an ammo counter, gains a number of additional counters equal to the quickload amount (A creature with Quickload 1 puts 1 additional ammo counter on a firearm at the beginning of the upkeep)

>Shootout
Cards with shootout have etb effects. Each player begins flipping cards off the top of his library until he flips a land. Whoever flipped less cards won the shootout. Cards have effects based on which player won the shootout.

>Horde
Horde cards have an activated ability whenever a certain number of cards which share a creature type with that card either enter or exit the battlefield. This is mainly used by the GR kobold tribe.

Other features of the set is the fact it is going to revisit vehicles as one of its major things.

(1/2)

Now for the tribes supported in the set. The theme is "A Story of Two Wars". There are two Three colored factions, each split in half in war with itself each supported by a two color faction.

One war is esper spirits are split between BW and UW spirits. BW are Spirit Rogues and UW are Spirit Judges. Judge is a new creature type for the set. Their war is themed as a sort of lawmen vs. outlaws between a permanently dwelling spirit population. This war is supported by GR kobolds. The second war is Jund snakes split between GW Snake Nomads and GB Snake Mercenaries. Their whole theme is basically a race of rattlesnake people, natives vs. those trying to run them off the land. This war is supported by BW Aven who are themed as the established authority who is not involving themselves.

I also have the design for several firearms, new vehicles, creatures, the planeswalker A kamigawan samurai who stole the idea of firearms from this plane, he's basically Oda Nobunaga, he's Mardu as they're all the samurai colors, and some of the more interesting legendary creatures The legendary kobold has Horde 1, whenever a kobold enters or leaves the battlefield he creates an Artifact Token "Powder Keg" with "Sac, Deal 1 Damage to All Players"..

Please someone tear my shitty ideas apart.

Also dear christ I just realized I butchered the wording of Quick Loader when typing it out here.

The idea for Firearm seems fine if you're including guns. Decent way to handle it. I would say that you could have it use Charge counters instead and have a bit more variety with it, since then you could also include more esoteric guns and weapons that still fit the set mechanics, while just making any specific guns function the way you laid out. Simpler is better in that regard.

Quickloader I would say feels too narrow as a keyword as well. It also has the potential to cause some weird quirks when you get someone with Quickloader 3 on that double-barrel shotgun. It feels like the sort of thing where you'd rather have some creatures with ETB of tap effects that could put extra counters on a permanant.

Shootout I really like, since it's a more 'fair' version of Clash since it isn't as reliant on building your deck with a particular CMC. It will favor control over aggro a bit though, and you may want to include some Scry effects in various places to offset that.

Horde feels really gimmicky and narrow, especially if you're only using it for Kobolds. It also sounds more like an ability word rather than a full keyword. Better to just leave it be.

As for the factions you suggested, the only thing I'm not sure on is splitting them so cleanly. It feels like the Spirit rogues and judges won't really be interacting with the snakes at all, and vice versa. It also feels like there won't end up being a lot of variety outside those factions, but that could be rectified. The GR kobolds seem really, really out of place with everything else you listed though, especially since I think those Snake nomads were supposed to be GR?

The planeswalker idea sounds great, but overall I don't think those tribal themes fit a western style setting as well.

What will these Firearms do besides ping and possibly tap? I mean, there's not a whole lot of utility when it comes to such a weapon.

Ah yes one part of the Ammo keyword I forgot is that is also the maximum number of bullets they can have. So you can't quick load beyond it. That's more or less how it'll be different than just charge.

I see what you mean for quick load being more of an ability and less of a keyword. Also loading creatures and creatures that add on ETB makes sense. It should just be abilities and not a keyword.

I also considered not making them spirits and instead humans, which makes the kobolds fit more.

Horde is supposed to be a shared GR keyword. It's just mainly used by the kobolds. The idea is some snakes also do horde since they have green and some of the RU birds will do it as well.

The snakes are supports to be GW. I realized I mistyped horribly. It's supposed to be WGB snakes with W&B being the split and RB Aven. White being nomad and green being snake. It's supposed to be the Indian faction essentially. I think the planeswalker would fit better with humans instead of spirits as well as the main white creature type for that faction.

Now for them not interacting. That I'm not really sure how to fix without changing the theme of the entire thing. The only way would be to set the two 5 color factions against each other. Or drawing it was the three color splits each form parts of one side with the two color factions dusupports both.

Perhaps, if it changes to humans, human rogues/snake nomads VS. human judges/snake mercenaries with Kobolds and Aven supporting both sides.

I was deciding on their design space. My biggest points for them is:
>remove protection
An example is Flare Gun an Ammo 1 Firearm that removed hexproof from target attacking or defending creature.

Net gun removes flying. Grapeshot does ping multiple creatures. Elephant gun kills above 4 power creatures. Smoke grenade gives unblock able. Rickshaw Cannon destroys a land.

The design space is mainly damage, removal, and removing protection. It does some tapping on the side.

>That I'm not really sure how to fix without changing the theme of the entire thing.

I would support changing the theme, because to be honest, it doesn't seem like a great theme for a wild west plane. The wild west has a lot of people out for themselves, very little central authority, and having many things be self contained.

The idea of having these sweeping 3-color wars going on, with sub-factions within them, doesn't fit that idea. Why are the native snakes White at all instead of just Green? Why do the snake-oil salesman have to be G/B outside of a pun, and why are they also lumped together with the native snakes? Why are they at such odds at all? Why aren't the snake-oil salesmen just mono-black due to their greed?

It's like some weird mashup of Ravnica and Alara and I don't know why you're doing it when the average Wild West town does not have nearly the scope of an entire city or shard of a plane. Isolation and mono-color strikes me as something much more befitting a world of gunslingers. If two sides end up working together, it's more likely due to a temporary shared goal or enemy, rather than being an official group.

I'm just not sure what you're trying to accomplish by organizing things in such a rigid and complex fashion.

Hmm. OK, I'm interested. Though I hope you realize for Hexproof, you can't use a target to remove it, it prevents targets in the first place.

>Firearm
>Firearm is a new artifact type. All firearms are equipment, and all firearms have the keyword Ammo. For instance the card Double Barreled Shotgun has Ammo 2 on it, meaning it comes into play with two ammo counters on it. Every firearm has a tap ability to spend an ammo counter to do something, this varies by card. At the beginning of your uptap step, if a firearm is untapped, you put an additional ammo counter on it (meaning you can only reload the firearm on turns you do not use it).
I like the ammo mechanic, but I would no key word it. Think of it like energy in kaladesh. I know theyre equips but it doesnt seem like the equip matters. I would make it so the ability needs you to be equipped, or give the creature the tap ability when equipped. I prefer the latter. I think its okay for you to be able to reload unequipped. I wouldnt make it automatic either, its just a tap ability to reload. The gameplay is a little different but it feels better to me and no memory.

Quickloader seems unnecesary to be keyword either. I would just make it a creature type (gunner?) that have an affinity for Firearms (again like KLD Pilots, amon other examples), and they can just have ability unkeyworded.

I really love the flavor of shootout. Like everybody is tossing bullets until a hit. I dont feel it solves any of clash's issues though, though I like that it asks less of deckbuilding if your goal is to actually win a shootout. I have no answer though so just go for it. Have you figured out what happens to the flipped cards? To the grave? To the bottom randomly?

I like horde but if its not as simple as "Horde - Whenever a creature that shares a type with this creature enters the battlefield under your control , x.", its probably more than it needs to be.

Got any commons? Been working on a western set myself though it seems very different so far, especially the setting. Your foreign walker sounds better than the idea I had for mine, though.

The flaregun itself has "Can target creatures as if they did not have hexproof" as part of its thing.

The main this is coherent tribal support. Though that can be done just by having several tribal groups in sort of a jumble.

>WU
Judges
>GR
Kobolds
>UB
Rebels (not sure what creature type)
>BR
Outlaws (rogue creature type)
>WG
Settlers (nomad creature type)

Then make it more civil war in some way. I'll have to think on that.

I though of giving the creature the tap ability. Gaining ammo counts does require the firearm to be equipped to something. I forgot to say that as well.

Ammo only counts up while equipped. When I was looking into it giving both the firearm and the creature tap abilities while equipped felt too complicated.

Cards flipped during a shoutout go on the bottom in a random order. There is a enchantment I made that made them instead go to the graveyard for both players.

An example common was:
>Kobold Gultch Sifter
>Hybrid RG
>0/1
>Sacrafice this creature and one Mountain or Forrest, put two RG 1/1 Kobold tokens with haste onto the battlefield.

Honestly I considered it being 3 Kobold tokens but that seemed too much since this common is supposed to feed into Horde.

Also I was gonna say to make it even better just have the horde creatures also trigger on themselves as well. Then I realized thats just rally. I dont know how you feel about that.

>Judges
Advisors?

>Rebels (not sure what creature type)
How about... Rebels?

>Settlers
How about Civilians?

Anyway, is this your first set?

Rolled 9, 5, 2 = 16 (3d10)

Rolling for type, mechanic and theme on hardmode again.

Yeah probably just rebels. I would just thinking of making judges its own type.

I don't think civilians is a creature type. I chose nomads because it is one already.

Sorry, not Civilian, Citizen.

Anyway, if you're doing tribal, I suggest you seriously study the Lorwyn and Shadowmoor blocks, and probably the first Innistrad block, to really get a sense of how all the tribal components work, and how parts of them can overlap.

I think I got it.

Eh, Lorwyn and Shadowmoor might not be the best, though the ways it tries to mix tribes is interesting and thats what you were talking about. Maybe check out Onslaught as well as both Innistrad blocks imo, but mostly Dark Ascension.

It also might be a good idea to check out other custom sets for do's and don'ts

>Lorwyn and Shadowmoor might not be the best
What makes you say that?

It wasnt a great execution of tribal on the whole. Individual ideas from it might be fine though.

If you read the articles on Lorwyn, they actually have a lot of good advice on making functional tribal sets. One that always stuck with me was the concept of 'bridges' and also making tribes blend into multiple colors.

If you just have Red Goblins as a very strict tribe, then anyone drafting will only be able to play Red goblins.

If, however, you have Red and Black goblins, that gives some options. And then if you draft something like Boggart Slinger that deals damage whenever a Kithkin is played, that makes the idea of splashing a few White Kithkin more appealing.

Having tr8bes cross colors is something innistrsd did well and was a facot rin Onslaught as well. I did specifically point out lorwyn block did an interesting bridging thing that was only a minor theme in Dark ascension.

Also just realized i couldnt bring myself to do a tribal theme set until Ixalan block was out since Im almost certain its big mechanical theme is tribal. Fuck

But Lorwyn took it a step further, for the simple fact that there were no cards without one of the major tribal types, and they had Changelings on top of that so that you could blend tribes and colors that otherwise had no support together more easily.

Some of the bigger mistakes for Lorwyn were simply the keywords themselves not being too relevant (aside from Evoke on Elementals being great), and the Tribal supertype itself being put on cards that otherwise didn't have strong tribal theme.

Tribal Theme in general may be where Lorwyn falls short the most, as aside from Elementals many of the tribes don't have a unifying mechanic that they want to work towards. It was probably designed that way so they could work with eachother more easily, but it lacks stuff like Transform with Werewolves that can have such a central thing.

Pretty straightforward card, but I wanted to make sure the mana cost and P/T weren't off

The biggest and loudest mistake of Lorwyn block was explicitly that the tribal was pushed way too far. Its just that simple.

Personally I think SOI did tribes brillisntly by having them care about the type but also unifying trives in gameplay by having cards focus on a sort of archetyp. Vampire tribal was an aggressive madness deck, so decks that cared about discard or aggressive strategies would use vampire cards even if they didnt care about the type. Its a much less hamfisted way of getting inter tribal gameplay than Lprwyn block did imo, though they are different tools so its up to you which you like. OG INN tried to do this but it was in a much more general sense (vampires are aggro, zombies are control, etc.). SOI refined it imo.

I could see that. A lot of the interaction in Lorwyn is very self-contained, so outside of Evoke with the Elementals, there wasn't a good way of blending it.

I still do think it's a very good block to look at for examples of how to do tribal well, but it needs to be tempered with some non-tribal focus and interactions alongside it.

>I could see that.
I mean... that was expressly wizard's, or at least Mark's, problem with the block. The main thing he said it messed up was drafting. Youd pick a tribe and you wouldnt care about anything else because the tribal was so pushed. There were occasionnal things like the off color off tribe cards that cared about your tribe, but your main concern drafting was still I just care about this creature type. Iirc its been said about Onslaught levels is as tribal as they want to go, which is a little more than Innistrad. Plus we have Ixalan as another barometer coming soon.

I'd still argue from a design standpoint that could have been solved by simply having more tribal bridges. A lot of color pairings only had a single card that would really offer a way to bring them together. It'd be possible to make a pretty good giant/kithkin deck, but tempting someone building giants or kithkin to branch out would be more difficult if there's only one card in each that cares about the other.

What I mean is, I feel SOI just did that better than having giant cards that care about kithkin. Though there may be reason to go one way or the other that I'm not sure of. Because SOI spirit tribal was a skies/flicker deck, its constituent pieces could inherently be used with other tribes in those colors if you were in the market for those effects, and trixks and flyers are very useful in limited in gener. Is it just me that feels this way? I never hear anybody talk about how well SOI did tribal imo.

...

Feels kind of odd to be putting -1/-1 counters on your own things while saving Mirrodin, plus it's really easy to spam Scry 1 until you get what you need that way. If anything, I would say for it to be removing a counter and either costing 1 or W or R so you can't just cure everything, or causing it to tap.

bump

Since I posted the art last thread, one of my older designs.

4 mana means the haste is mostly pointless.

Feels like it could stand to cost 1 more, but if it's Mythic I think it can get away with it.

...

No deck actually wants this.

...