Celestine jobs once again to show how badass other characters are

This really.

>only dying when she KNOWS that's what the Emperor requires of her, at the precise place and the precise time.

The text says that she didn't hold back, regardless. She fought him with all her skill and might. Kharn ran her through the ground with not a pause.

Anyways, Abaddon demolished Kharn when they fought. This fact shows that Celestine is low in the totem pole of power.

Here is the Abaddon vs Kharn fight.

>immortality given to be designated jobber
Funny how it's applicable to other fire-obsessed white-haired character
not 2hufag, i swear

GW here to sell Space Marines and she's not a Space Marine.

You didn't see any Prime Sisters in the stater box now did you?

Well, it IS Kharn after all. Losing against the marine that could considered at the very least in the top 3 most Astartes, if not THE most dangerous Astartes, barring Abaddon and his numerous cheat codes, isn't exactly being a jobber. It's following the logic of the world. And he didn't kill her as fast as the others. Probably took him 20 seconds more but everything counts.

And akshually, Celestine did wound Abby on cadia. Granted it was a stab in the back but still, yet another proof that canon is...flexible to say the least.

>Her only abilities are that she gets resurrected every time and boosts the morale of imperial humans around her.

That and raising other people from the dead and being superhuman fast and skilled. Back when the initiative stat still existed, she was faster than most eldar.

>I'm really struggling to see why she can't get a single fucking thing to be proud of by herself.
because her misery keeps you hooked, plain and simple. you're waiting for her to catch a break time and again. if she gets it, you'll be less anxious for the next story.

The issue is that she doesn't really get any wins. 40k runs on WWE logic a lot. While losing to the Undertaker and the Ultimate Warrior isn't really a black mark on your record, if you did nothing BUT lose to those people you don't look good.

She really needs a few wins. Have her miracles completely fuck over the hyper-logical necron planning or such.

Entertainingly, if she gets the charge (Being a lot faster and a flying troop, it's more often than not) she'll beat the ever shit out of Kharn in a duel.

>Celestine did wound Abby on cadia. Granted it was a stab in the back but still, yet another proof that canon is...flexible to say the least.

-Before the Pylons activated, Celestine was said to be no match for Abaddon. She needed her two helpers to join the fight to even it.
-After the Pylons activated, both Abaddon and Celestine lost their powers. Abaddon quickly disarmed and bashed Celestine to the ground.

Before Abaddon could deliver the final blow, Greyfax toasted his mind and blinded him. And when he partially recovered from the psychic attack and tried to go after Celestine he found Creed and the Cadians charging him to block his way. Abaddon killed Creed's command squad and tore Creed arm off. Before he could strangle Creed to death, Celestine stabbed him in the back. It was ridiculous fight. Here was powerless Abaddon who was just a marine in terminator armor being assaulted by three Imperial heroes at once with each hero talking the aggro whenever Abaddon comes close to finishing one of them. These guys failing to kill a marine was dumb as shit.

I digressm doesn't bother you that Celestine which is supposedly the most potent example of the Emperor's power beyond Terra is that weak against other blessed fighters?

She defeated a daemon prince or two.

>one of the kindest characters in a setting full of assholes

there, you have your answer. the kind characters are only created to suffer, to show the grim darkness more.

Someone with a name would be nice.

>40k runs on WWE logic a lot.
In that, for some reason, the fans who are old enough to realize that winning and losing don't really matter are super autistically worried about it?
Yeah, sounds about right.

Her situation is really weird with the new HH books coming out. Emps is being shifted into a completely irredeemable douchebag and the Ecclessiarchy are assholes...but St Celestine doesn't seem to line up with either the god she's a rep of OR the church she's a saint for.

The person she lines up to most closely is Sebastian Thor. The guy who managed to nice and kind so hard that 40k sat down and stopped being an asshole for a time (Wherever he went the warp was calm and peaceful, among other crazy stuff).

The guy who was in charge of the Hounds of Abaddon. He was named in the Black Legion supplement and got featured in the Red Path series.

He ascended to daemonhood in Fall of Cadia and then got defeated by Celestine.

Well chaos is best step dad and all organized religion is totally ebul guyz, but it's ok you can have your waifu. Just get used to her being representative of your own beaten wife syndrome.

>BTFO multiple greater daemons and just about everything that crosses her path
>loses to abandon and Kharn
>omg Celestine is so weak guise
Are you kidding me? Did you really expect her to actually beat either of those guys in a fight?

Just ignore the new baddly written fluff about Empy being a cunt. For now, only Wraight and Haley in Dark Imperium wrote him down sensibly. I can accept their explanation of "Well he didn't tell people about his plans or his real 'feeling' because he just can't afford the risks, whats with leading the whole of Mankind and all", because it makes sense.
Sure, I prefer the old interpretation of "That several thousand years old, god like being just didn't better because he's so removed from baseline Humanity", but at least with their explanation it's not just a Chaos boner getting the better of them, it's an explanation that makes SENSE.
The last scene of DI, with Guiliman slosly coming to terms with the possible divinity of the Emperor and the reasons for his lies and deceptions (of which he ends up accepting and imitating for the sake of ruling) is such a breath of fresh air after the likes of ADB's daddy issues, that he tried to mitigate by saying "Well fuck you, Chaos won, and I knew you wouldn';t like this anyway so you can't really blame me!"

All in all, just pick and choose the intepretation you prefer. The HH is known to be a shitshow because of bad writers and personal biases anyway.

I thought the latest out of DI was the worst hatchet job on emps yet? Haven't read it myself so I couldn't say, but that was the impression I got. Is wrong?

>Haven't read it myself
This post epitomizes Veeky Forums.

Being able to respawn kinda makes you the perfect canidate for jobbing. She's pretty much the ultimate imperial- able to die for The Emperor more than once!

True. That's why I'm asking. I'm trying to get myself lore competent, but i'm new to the hobby and there is a lot of backlog. Figured I'd start at the beginning with the older stuff rather than just reading the newest stuff that just come out, so i can't say I have read DI, but i hear about it and I can't help but be curious.

In my opinion it wasn't, far from it actually. Haley takes the time to have Guiliman ponder about the Emperor's actions, as well as giving us, the readers and fans, several hypothesis to pick and choose from on wether or not Empy is a God and how that happened.
The fact that, in the end, Guiliman understands the necessity of Empy's "lies" and deception and does exactly the same thing (telling an Eclesiarch that the Emperor loves every human when Guilli knows perfectly it's not the case, in order to save hope and maintain the Imperium in shape) is quite a good choice.

Basically, it nuances the HH argument of "The Emperor is a horrible being, he doesn't care about anyone and lied all the time, here have some daddy issues" with "Well it was necessary, to the point that his son, who hated him for it after discovering it, now understand and does exactly the same".

Read the book, the pdf is in the 40k general, and it's a good, if bland novel (because it's the 8th edition introduction book).

Here, have the older Emperor vs Horus fight. And remember it, since the new BL seems focused on changing that completely, even though it's recognised as one of the best and most central texts of 40k, with the Emperor loving Horus like an actual son, making it the reason he "lost" the fight.

>"That several thousand years old, god like being just didn't better because he's so removed from baseline Humanity"
That explanation was retarded.
You can be a transhuman guy that's grown beyond human logic, and still know what makes men tick.
That is on top of the fact that he was a large number of influential human leaders, religious figures, philosophers and thinkers, ffs, so he should be competent in this regard.
He was possibly Jesus, for cyring out loud, yet he acts like an autist that grew in a basement.

New explanation, that he didn't want to tell anyone, because, at the very least, the navigator houses and marines would have revolved, totally crippling the Imperium, makes a ton more sense.

To be fair between being Jesus, assuming he was Jesus, and being the emperor some 30 millenia passed. I feel like you could forget a lot in that time frame. Especially if you thought things were pretty much fine and dandy for most of it and left people be until it all came crashing down suddenly and unexpectedly.

Well, one can argue he was sensible when he was posturing as those political and religious leaders, but then slowly lost his edge as time passed.

What about the old lore of the Emperor shedding tears for the suffering of man kind on the throne and the custodes bottling that shit? I distinctly remember seeing that. I get him not loving the primarchs or the space marines, I honestly can live with that, but if Emps doesn't love mankind, doesn't love his people, then what the hell is the point? Seriously, what the fuck is the point if even mankinds in setting deity doesn't give a shit about them? Eat drink and be merry because tomorrow the Chaos gods eat your soul?

DI touches that point a bit, with a very simple formula along the lines of "The Emperor doesn't like any man but he loves Mankind". It goes back to the "Too powerful to relate". He can't connect to individual people, but he would die (and did die in a way) for the ideal, the concept of Mankind ruling the stars and being safe.

Dude, Dark Imperium says that the Emperor does not love men but he loves mankind.

>In 500.M41, in an event known as the Tears of the Emperor, the Imperium was swept by visions of the Emperor's tears. From backwards feral planets to the most densely populated Hive Worlds, a million versions of the same story are told by holy men, street agitators, shamans, priests, and mystics. Primitives point to storm-filled skies, claiming that the drops falling from them are the tears of their mighty god. Upon Ecclesiarchy Cardinal Worlds, Arch-Deacons to lowly pilgrims claim to have seen statues of the divine Emperor shed tears. Chapter Masters and hive city urchins alike have visions of the Emperor stirring upon his throne, tears running from his empty sockets. Although the dreams take myriad forms, all know that the Emperor weeps not for himself, but for the plight of Mankind.

Always found that part touching.

she can respawn

that's enough to tell writers she can and will do the job of jobbing

if she couldn't she probably wouldn't even end up having narratives to be involved in

They're SoB fags. They complain and bring everything down.
One of the worst groups of fans in 40k.

Emprah considers every existing human to be a disgusting piece of shit.
However, he sees immense potential in humanity.
He wants humanity to achieve that potential.
He wants them to be great.
And he weeps for that potential being far away, with Chaos and Xeno blocking the path.

I am still not seeing how he demolished Kharn considering they both got hits in and the fight was broken up before there was a clear winner.

Abaddon could have ended the fight in the first blow if he had chosen to use the Talon as it was meant to be used with impaling or slashing Kharn with it. Abaddon balled up the talon used it repeatedly as a bludgeoning weapon because he didn't want to kill Kharn. The first blow was so fast that Kharn couldn't even see it and it sent him flying.

Then Abaddon grabbed Kharn's arm with the Talon lifting him up and throwing him away. Do you know how delicately Abaddon had to be not to injure Kharn exposed arm with the Talon. Very. Abaddon could have easily crushed/sheared Kharn's arm with the talon if he wished.

Even the last bit of the fight had Abaddon pinning Kharn down slowly overpowering him. Kharn was losing blood and consciousness. All he could have done was take off one of Abaddon's limps but that would end with Drach'nyen slamming down and ending him. Kharn was fucked.

A;so notice that Abaddon was prepared to fight Kharn + the Daemon army if his demand was refused by the Greater Daemon.

I don't think he sees individual humans like thay from the get go. He just doesn't give a shit.

Do you give a shit about the ants or the bees that crawl around your feet? The analogy isn't perfect since Empy is one of us, but the power gap is nasically the same.

>Why do I have to hear these peasants, they should just play Ultramarines like I do.

She's a hilarious beatstick in game. Moving 24 inches thanks to faith and then demolishing whatever she charges.

Spoilers for Shroud of night are out?

Can I get a basic gestalt or even the full spoilers if anyone has them? I've not been on Veeky Forums for a week due to work.

Kharn beheads Celestine. Kharn tries to kill Abaddon, but Khorne himself intervenes and tells Kharn no.

The end is not Shroud of Night though.

The Imperium loses a miniature astronomican to the AL, apparently the Emperor pulled a "Just as planned" by having Celestine dying to Kharn so that the AL can take the beacon, rather than Khornates or Slaneeshi, the AL captain is just a teeny tiny bit touched by the events and may or may not be interested in redemption, but he still accepted a demon's help to avoid dying so who knows? Book ends on them boarding an Imperial vessel with the beacon, passing for loyalists, with the idea of bargaining in mind. Then again, it seems, according to Celestine, that the Emperor willed them to get the beacon, not the Imperials "because the night is needed before the new dawn" or some bullshit like that. In short, AL alignments is, as always, ambiguous in the end.

Read the book, buy it, it's worth it. Don't take other people's word for it, that helps avoiding misconceptions.

Woops, meant for

Is the end not? My mistake then.
Disregard it, I suck cocks.

I wouldn't call sexism because of how Imperial Guardswomen and the SoS are portrayed. GW just seems to have a hateboner for the Sisters of Battle in particular.
>Reading a SoB book
>Expecting them to do anything other than be massacred
Brought it upon yourself tbqhwyfamalamadingdong

Abbadon is not in the book. You're mistaking another book for it.

Here are the spoilers.

-Heroes of the story are the Unsung which are a group of AL guys that were stuck on a daemonic warworld for like forever. Eventually they win and get stranded there.
-Emperor's Children Warlord comes to the planet to pick up his dudes that he left them there many year ago to train
-Finds out his dudes are dead and only the Unsung remain. He is pissed that his best warriors were killed by the Unsung but he makes an offer for the AL.
-The offer that he will give them a ship and a loyal crew IF they agreed to do a mission for him
-The mission is go to a hiveworld in the Dark Imperium, that has a beacon of light that Imperials are desperately using to navigate the Dark Imperium, and corrupt the beacon using an enchanted cultist
-He warns them that a massive Khornate horde and Iron Warriors are on their way to the world. They better hurry.
-AL take the cultist and land on the world
-They stealth around. Fight P-Marines and Sisters of Battle
-Celestine arrives from the skies to help the Imperials just before the Khornate horde arrives
-Imperial Fists tells the Admech to shut down the trains and teleporters on the Hiveworld since the traitors might use them to breach the defenses. The Admech refuse and threaten to attack anyone who tries to shut down their sacred devices and machines. The Imperial Fists is pissed but can do nothing or else the Admech forces will turn hostile
-Khorates arrive and swarm the world in a tide metal and flesh
-As Kharn's drop pod is descending he is thinking of the blood vision of his newest victim. The Angel lady
-AL sneak around , fight, and duck danger but suddenly IT"S FUCKING KHARN
-Horror movie shenanigans ensue as Kharn begins to chase them all over the place
-They get on a train and Kharn comes after them. A fight ensues with the Unsung being outmatched by Kharn who wounds and kills some of them.

Well there's a new SoB story by Rob Sanders that came out recently, maybe the lady doesnrdie in the end!

The thing with Demon Princes is that they're expendable in exactly the same way Celestine herself is, as points out. You can kill them again and again to show how serious your hero is, safe in the knowledge that they're a plot point away from return.

Same thing applies to the Swarmlord, a creature created specifically to create a jobber for an otherwise "faceless" race that by rights shouldn't have a single specific target to murder to show how cool you are. Necrons too, I suppose, but off the top of my head I can't think of any examples of Necrons actually doing anything of note.

I do sometimes wonder if its not just that they're girls in a game that's targeted at boys who are still just about in the "girls are icky" stage but they're specifically religious girls.

-The Unsung flee the train while the Unsung leader duels Kharn to hold him back. Kharn rekts him but before he can kill him, the train smashes into the station
-The Imperials begs the admech to fucking shut down the trains. The Admech refuse. Soon me trains filled with Khornates arrive bringing hordes of Khornes deep behind Imperial lines
-Back to the Unsung leader. Kharn is no where to be seen. He is wounded and dying. Despite being a staunch anti-Chaosfag he accepts his daemon swords offer to restore him in order to save his brothers.
-He links up with his battle brothers but then the Chaosfag dude starts shit and argues that they should accept Chaos. They all say no. He gets pissed and attracts the attention of Imperials and abandons the Unsung
-More sneaking and fighting until the Unsung reach the teleporter
-Kharn IS BACK. Kharn continues to kill and kill until a daemonic mist forms around him
-The Imperials have had it with the Admech and tell them to fucking shutdown the teleporters. The Admech say no. When infighting was about to happen between the admech and Imperials, Khornes CSMs use the telepoters to materialise on their position and then charge everyone. Admech and Imperials are overrun
-Kharn daemon mist has grown so much that daemons start to pop out from it. Lesser and greater daemons alike are running alongside him.
-The leader of the Imperial Fists and Sister Leader fight he Warlord of the Khornates.
-The Warlord is ultimately defeated when the whole Imperial army fire everything at him
-Imperial Fist guy tells the Sister leader to retreat and defend the beacon while they hold off the daemons and heretics
-Most of the sisters retreat while the Imperial Fists are stand their ground and die. Imperial Fist leader gets murderized by a Greater Daemon
-AL reach the beacon and find out its not a machine or artefact. It's a crippled man blessed with the power of the Emperor that radiates from him as light.

To be fair, as far as Sisters getting the shit kicked out of them in all the books goes, same thing happens to IG. I can't remember the last time I read an IG book where they didn't loose or at best get a Pyrrhic victory. I don't know that it's because they are Sisters specifically so much as it is that they are unaugmented humans and most BL books have the Imperium getting the shit kicked out of them to show how grim and dark things are, unless it's marines, and then they win to show how badass they are.

>Cultist escapes the Unsung and rushes to the Beacon guy. The Cultists prays to the beacon guy and asks the Emperor to forgive him. Before he can finish his prayer, he explodes into a Keeper of Secrets
-Turns out that the Emperor's Children betrayed the Unsung. The daemon mission was to corrupt the beacon and kill the Unsung
-Celestine, the Sister Leader, and the AL fight the Greater Daemon and defeat it
-But suddenly KHAAARN out of nowhere. He was going to fuck the Unsung up again but notices Celestine and leaves them for her
-Celestine gives the Unsung leader a look and he understand what to do. The Unsung leader uses the fight as a distraction to grab the beacon and run
-Celestine knows that the Emperor intends for the Unsung to have the Beacon and she knows she is destined to die at the hands of Kharn. Though, she is pained by the fact that with her death and the loss of the beacon entire systems will be lost and billions will die
-Regardless she fights Kharn with all her strength but ultimately Kharn wins
-The Unsung grab a ship and leave the dying planet
-The Unsung use hypnotism to fool an Imperial admiral into thinking they are good guys and the they get on the ship
-The Emperor's Children are pissed that their plan have failed but they spot the shuttle of the shithead traitor Unsung. The Emperor's Children prepare to pick him up and torture him for information before going after the Unsung

That's how the story ends. This is obviously a cliffhanger for a series about the Unsung.

The moral of the story is that the Admech are retards.The Imperials were convincingly winning the war until the traitors used the trains and teleporters to circumvent the Imperial fortification and defences.

Thanks guys

I plan on buying it; I'm currently overloaded by reading though.

I've got Space Wolf Omnibus 1 to finish, omnibus 2 to start/finish, Gaunts Ghists: First and only to start and dark imperium to start too.

Tell that to the Eldar. What was supposed to be one of their major turning points in their history since the Fall turned out to be just an excuse so they could rez Guilliman.

Something something Ynnead isn't fully awakened and only semi-conscious something something :^)

I don't get it.

Are we supposed to be upset by this post?

In a setting where most fights are just fun and games, only Mokou and faeries are ever actually murdered by other protagonists.

Surprising that Kaguya has avoided this fate.

>The moral of the story is that the Admech are retards.The Imperials were convincingly winning the war until the traitors used the trains and teleporters to circumvent the Imperial fortification and defences.

Gee, who could have seen that?
In the same kind of stuff, I recommend pic related. Among the fantastic IH fluff that is given by the ton, you get some stupid admech moments that are quite interesting to behold.

Because some Imperial has to lose or Chaos niggers will chimp out. And if they make it a space moron or a guard memer the impfags will chimp out. So they choose a character with the lowest chimpout quotient.

Between Celestine saying the Emperor wanted the Alpha Legion to have the beacon and Kassar's moment staring into the beacon. I wonder if the Unsung are going to become loyal again.

I suspect Kassar will martyr himself at some point. The Hexling sword now has a purchase on his soul so he can never truly turn back from the path of the renegade. His only path to goodness is death doing something noble

Because she must fill the role for the Imperium that named daemons have for chaos. Since she is immortal, death has literally no consequences for her, so she will job at every given occasion for plot reasons.

She alone will job even harder than average daemons, because she'll have to job an amount of jobbing equivalent to an entire faction of jobbers

This. I would prefer a happy ending but the pact is not something you come back from.

Wonder if GW knows they sell other things outside of marines.
Even AoS has marines for fuck sake.

So... Abaddon had a hard time to defeat a wounded powerless woman, an old man missing an arm and a psyker that hate herself.

That fight just show how shit Abaddon is as a character even with plot armour he sucks ass.

He defeated them all but they took turns saving each other at the last moments. The only guys who had plot armour is them. If the fight was supposed to make sense. Then Celestine and Creed would all be dead.

>wounded powerless woman

The bitch slap didn't wound her much. And she is still the greatest of the battle sisters without her powers and she had a blessed sword.

>an old man missing an arm

Abaddon casually killed Creed's squad and puled off his arm. While being half blind by the way.

>a psyker that hate herself.

Yes, and? That doesn't make her any less of one of the best and potent psykers in the Imperium

He is pretty much a god. No matter how you look at it, he is a god. Does pretty much everything a god is supposed to do.

We are talking about FoC? The book were the factions that does not depend on the warp for running their shit properly got more dick over by the warp going "off"

Because oomies don't give their saints enough dakka or choppa. Let the boyz pimp your saint and she'll be fightin' and winnin' in no time!

Reminder that the Imperial Creed is the best religion there can be.

She can die and come back to life ano. She is literally canned heat/job the character

Practical. He isn't a god though.

Or was it theoretical? I dunno.

...

>Emprah considers every existing human to be a disgusting piece of shit.
>However, he sees immense potential in humanity.
He truly is a neet

He uses several theoried though, one of them being the popular "He was just an extremely powerful.being that ascended through the worship of countless souls".

Guilliman only came to practical: he's not a god, when he forced the conclusion.

Feels like Girlyman should just accept the Emperor being a god. I mean the guy watches over the whole imperium and mankind, grants them power during the time of need, and allows for the performance of miracles. He might have originally been a man, but at this point he pretty much performs the function of a god.

>"‘He is not a god,’ said Guilliman out loud. He could not countenance the thought. A being that cold and callous was not worthy of worship"

Do you really need an answer other than "she's a Sister of Battle" for why GW has such contempt for Celestine?

I FOUND A PIPE!

Have you read Dark Imperium?

Well yeah, it's called Avatar of Khaine syndrom.

If you have character who's power is to literally not die, you have to have them show it off, lest it goes unnoticed. This of course backfires and makes said character look pathetic.

Take Lucius for example. Lucius is regarded as one of the best duelists IN THE SETTING, but almost never wins in whatever fight he's in. Why? Because GW feels the need to show off his "I can't die powers" Then, to up the "tension", he finally dies to the one caveat they placed in his lore, but decided to retcon it because "lolchaos" .

Same with the Avatar of Khaine. An dar literally explodes within his own body, killing himself in the process, to summon the essence of pure rage as a last ditch effort in their time of need, who immediately fucking dies because GW needs to show off how cool the transformation is.

I have. And I found it pretty funny with how Guilliman was being almost persuaded on the Emps being a god. Somehow that conflict actually made me like Guilliman more with how it was done.

>Haley is a solid writer that is above the usual BL chaff and therefore makes compelling fluff
Who would have thought? But yeah, it's good that this moral dilemma is included.

She isn't an Ultramarine or Grey Knight, so she can't win. Period.

>filthy xenos turning my pure living saint into a dakkaslut
Never ever!

>So... Abaddon had a hard time to defeat a wounded powerless woman, an old man missing an arm and a psyker that hate herself.

That was two powerless women and a bunch of random Cadians plus old man Creed. Yeah, it had a certain unmistakable cripple-fight feel.