How would you go about making a table top roleplay out of the kingdom death monster Setting?
The hunts, the settlement, and the character death being a big part of the game, as well as the feeling of hope as well as the feeling of hopelessness in such a cruel world all being maintained effectivly in this game.
What system would you use? How would you handle character creation and death?
I don't know much about Kingdom Death Monster, but I have been dicking around with Veeky Forums's latest "let's make grimdark setting" thread, so color me interested. What's this setting about?
The setting larger than the game covers, because you start off the game essentially playing as cows.
An immortal being called the Scribe periodically writes humans into existence out in a plane of stone faces that exists in eternal darkness. These humans simple come into being as adults with no memories, with nothing but some cloth and a lantern to light their way in the darkness.
The cynical might say that the lanterns also advertise the location of these 'survivors' to nearby monsters. Of which there are many, ranging from degenerate lion-beasts that are all that remains of a once proud civilization, to screaming monster goats, to time-warping rainbow birds, to bugs cosplaying as knights, and so on.
These people usually die very quickly, but the lucky ones survive long enough to find areas of relative safety, band together, and work out something like civilization. Killing monsters and butchering them for resources and advancing, until their settlement inevitably falls into tragedy and death.
A lot of the monsters in the setting eat people, or were people once. So the scribe makes more of them as needed, and the Golden Entity occasionally sends forth its armies to harvest crops of humans.
Oh, the Golden Entity is the Scribe's boss. The Scribe isn't even a major player, really. That's how low on the ladder we are. Our all-powerful creator being is middle management in hell.
Hmm. In a setting like that, I'd want to make it clear that death can come easy, while at the same time not going completely out of my way to kill them. Character creation would go fast, you get your stats out, and since humans are just "made", we don't worry about backstory stuff other than some basic personality traits. Have it so there's downtime in the settlement to let characters form relationships and connections, so they want to survive and don't consider each person they player as cannon fodder. Have there actually be signs of hope and something to strive for, just make it very difficult to accomplish and have plenty of things get in the way to hamper spirits.
Could there perhaps be a mechanic of having children? In the game, you are able to sorta play a bit of match maker and have your survivors have children, who can end up more powerful then their predecessors due to the settlement or buff the parents had.
So would that be a good mechanic to bring in or does that translate poorly?
Yeah, the story of Kingdom death is pretty sad, which is perfect for the setting
I think it'd be a cool mechanic, but not one that's open right away. Assuming these are actual children you're making here and the characters aren't just birthing out grown adults, they're going to need to settle down and raise them.
Personally, I'd make it so your characters only pair off and have kids once they've completed some kind of important quest. Save the village from a super monster or find a super important resource that's hard to get back to town, that sort of thing. Something that proves their worth to the town and gives you a good point in the story where you can time jump to the surviving characters having kids, and deciding whether you want to play as the young and inexperienced but full of potential kids, or stick with the old characters and have the kids act as extra lives.
Its important to know that Time in Kingdom Death is... weird.
The settlement is built around a giant pile of lanterns. When a Lantern in the pile goes out, that's how they mark their year change. But that don't actually know for sure that the lanterns go out at equal periods, so the length of a 'lantern year' is very much in question.
On top of that, "aging" is the same as 'leveling up'. But you only gain Hunt Xp by going on Hunts away from the Lantern Horde.
Mechanically speaking, a person who never leaves the settlement never ages. And children born the natural way are ready to depart the same 'lantern year' they are born.
So a single year is simultaneously long enough for a child to grow to adulthood, and no time at all as long as you never go anywhere because you'll never grow to old age except out in the dark.
KDM is really more about managing the settlement than it is about specific characters. If you are doing an RPG, you likely don't want to play as Survivors. You want to play as Forsakers, White Speakers, and Twilight Knights. Humans that are mechanically too powerful to be part of your settlement, and any one of which could probably kill most of your dudes by themselves if they wanted to.
As neat as those ideas are for the game they're coming from, all I know is that if I was going to adapt the setting while keeping the atmosphere it is trying to go for, I probably would change up those time rules myself. I wouldn't want the player acting as these powerhouse characters, because it would turn the setting back into a standard fantasy adventure (abit a darker one). And trying to adapt the lantern time straight faced would just be too complicated for a non large scale management game.
Why do the women in this, some of them at least, cover their breasts.
Unless I'm wrong the people are fairly low tech and tribal right?
Stone faces are murder on your tits if you fall over.
I was thinking that in order to have a child, it'd be like a resource. You and another human in the settlement use a love potion to have a child, and then that child resource waits to be used either immediatly or later.
Perhaps that would work?
It could work, but I'd be worried about it being too alien for the players to get into. If we go for a more strategy route and we're controlling multiple characters at a time, sure, but for a single controlled character at a time, just "making" the child could come off as too unemotional.
Unless that element is played up. Have it so the first time it happens, the players walk into a relationship, and have to realize how cold and mechanical surviving in this world has to be.
The game sorta fluffs it as one of the few warm moments that people can have in the world.
But yeah it being cold would also fit with the world.
Hmm, what would be a good mechanical way to handle children and still have the emotion? Perhaps do a sorta side thing for them growing up?
If we have to do the sped up aging thing, then yes, have it so it takes at least some time for the child to develop, but far faster than usual.
So instead of in game years, the players experience it as if it were a few in game weeks. Child is born during the same period of time as copulation, you see him go from a baby to a child to an adult over the course of a few trips outside of the fort, have raising them be a bit of a side thing, play up that they do age quickly, and then once they're fully grown after maybe 3-4 adventures, you can use them as another character/life with bonus stats.
I like it. Maybe there are like events in between lantern years that sorta help not only get to know the kid, but also maybe set up some bonus' they get and such when they become an adult
A couple rules I just realized may prove interesting or harmful.
>The injuries tables, where you can lose limbs or recieve serious injuries or just die outright. They're similar to the Dark Heresy tables, so does that mean they'ed translate well or would the slight differences make it a no go?
>Mental illnesses are a thing, along with sanity. Some of these are beneficial and others are harmful. In the table top game, since you are controlling multiple characters or lose characters quick, them being forced into the character is fine. However, would such a system work for a role play medium?
>Weapon and armor crafting are done by gathering monster parts and other materials. Would one have to prepare all the recipes or could one let the players figure stuff out?
>The tech tree that grows in the settlement phase is a good show of the advancement of a settlement, and opens up more options during the phase. Would the settlement phase largely remain the same in this medium, or would it have to be changed? Would it even be included?
Oh, I like that a lot actually. Each event you have with the child can determine some stats they'll get in the future. That's cool.
Injury table can stay, since permeant debuffs or death should still be a likely outcome if players aren't careful. If anything it can act as a buffer before death, so they're not just burning through characters quickly.
For mental illness, since we're just working with singular characters in this hypothetical, I'd still keep them in, but make them slower to get than they are in the actual game. Something that builds over time rather than a physical injury.
Crafting from monster parts seems like a big deal, but it's not like a video game where you can quickly smash X and Y together and see what happens. It would probably be best to have someone in the town that can provide info on what parts you can use to craft stuff.
Town advancement sounds like it would be kept the same. Let the players influence how the town grows depending on what tasks they go on and what projects they choose to invest in.
Naturally there'd be a chance for negatives due to accidents or random chance.
It's the rule of death after all.
Yes, negative effects along with positive effects would spice things up. I might make it so the child always has some minor stat buffs just so it is worth having kids, but having the chance for negatives to cripple them if the players aren't careful with how they handle/protect the kid during events is a good idea.
Also, the events having multiple outcomes beyond good or bad would be nice. If you teach the kid to solve his problems by being clever, he gets stat buffs that relate to that. If you teach him that it's best to punch things in the face, he'll get buffs to that.
don't forget that the lanterns are actually souls, and the areas of safety are only safe because they are incubation nests for a monster so terrible that all the other monsters avoid them, for fear of waking it up or hatching it early.
>the areas of safety are only safe because they are incubation nests for a monster so terrible that all the other monsters avoid them, for fear of waking it up or hatching it early
Do tell.
This is pretty spoilery to be honest, so if you want to experience the game fresh it's best your don't know. If your cool with spoilers I can talk about it
It probably wouldn't go into this version of the game I think
I'd imagine occasionally you'de have to save the child from something stupid they chose to do, like wander away from the settlement or go hunting, and that could lead to some serious change. Like a starting mental illness or a disability, but could also give them something cool like a fighting art or somehing
I appreciate the avoidance of spoilers, but considering I probably won't have an opportunity to play the game for awhile, I wouldn't really mind it too much. Just spoiler text it.
It'd definitely but up to the GM to come up with some clever situations. Hell, maybe even have a high risk high reward situation where you can take your child on a hunt, and if he survives, he gains a big boost to their stats from the experience.
Or maybe some insanity if things go horribly horribly wrong.
Is there like a guide to the KDM setting? I know a lot of it is sort of spread around a lot of different things and expansions and such
There likely is, but I've mostly had to piece it toegether from various sources. I'm sure there is a compiled thing though.
I like that idea. The child would effectivly be in mondo danger all the time, and if they survive mostly intact, they'll come out way more prepared and likely stronger then the other kids.
I've been checking out KDM videos online, and from what I'm picking up, the biggest draw of directly roleplaying within the setting would be getting a closer look of what living in this world is like, rather than being more guides. As such, little things like directly needing to protect your child from monsters, or seeing how changes to the community are effecting the survivors on an individual level, that's where the biggest draws would come in.
It would be neat because you could have a player making all the best stat choices (throw the kid into danger and see if he grows from it, do the more corrupt things for the community to get those sweet resources), and while that certainly could help them out, they'd also need to deal with the narrative results of those choices. Maybe the children don't like your character, or the survivors are scared of you because you've eaten people in the past, stuff like that.
Not to mention the damage to the child mentally, and the possibility that the rest of the settlement will either turn against you or follow along that dark path to a greater extreme
For a character sheet for this, I think a great deal from the games system is useable.
You got your base stats (with Movement being either kept or removed depending on what it could bring to the table).
Courage could provide resistances to insanity stuff perhaps, while intrigue is good for tech and such.
Honestly the sheet seems pretty good for a roleplay version from a first glance.
Sorry for double posts but if this counts as it, but more thoughts.
>How would the hunting phase even work in this?
Some thought I thought I'd post to keep the thread going as well as get answered before I went to bed
From what i have gathered.
Its about penises in various sizes, tits in various sizes, violence, and people getting lost in the dark despite everyone wearing lanterns.
I doubt it would be any fun.
>character creation must be fast because you're expected to die often, yet it must have enough variety to be interesting
>gameplay somewhat limited to killing monsters, not a lot of alternative options
>not a lot of room for interesting npcs
The original Roleplaying game that was being worked on focused on heroes like Twilight Knights or Saviors as the PCs.
New shit on the store fellas.
Looks like Poots finally realized releasing batches of only 500 was fucking retarded and now it's 1000.
It's everyone's favorite leaked render waifu! And she's in her underpants!
Fappy nerds rejoice!
Not a huge fan of Bikini paladin. Last Bard though...
A fun thing is that a ton of that is speculation that might be as wrong as right. We know that the Golden Entity is the top dog of the Holy Lands, but the humans of the Holy Lands have no free will and are raised by Wet Nurses unlike the humans of the Plain of Carved Stone Faces which are written into being by the Scribe. There are hints that there is history in this universe, that it's not a changeless void.
My best guess involves the Golden Entity being... powerful, yes, but a relative newcomer. We know the White Lions once had civilization, that the Lion God once ruled over a great kingdom, that the Gold Smoke Knight was once the protector of a land that was good until something corrupted it, and his glorous mane fell out and was replaced by Wailing Smoke... Wailing Smoke also surrounding the prescient Lion Knight brother, a creation of the Golden Entity. So is the Golden Entity the master of the Wailing Smoke and the destroyer and usurper of the Lion Civ? What role does the Knowledge Worm play in the mess? Was it an instigator, or an opportunist?
Perhaps the Archivists could have told us, before their great library fell into ruin. Presumably they're still operating since we still see Twilight Knights... the order seems to connect back somehow to the Silver City after all.
One of the themes is that there are always more questions than answers. The only story we know certain truth on is The Sparrow King's Masquerade and even then the entity in question doesn't know everything and so neither do we. Does the Goblin really exist, to some day exact vengeance on the Sparrow King? There's evidence both ways
This stuff is what I think would be a good draw to the game, the setting and lore are very interesting and can lead to people trying to investigate and discover just what's up
I'm almost tempted to sit around spitballing "Theories" that could be used for lore one game and false leads the next. Anyone remember the Angels and Dragons conspiracy theory?
For Kingdom death or another thing?
Either way I don't
I've been watching more KDM videos and I think that how combat and stats work could be transitioned into a roleplaying game easier enough. The stats moerso than combat, I do think that the GM would need to be more in control of how monsters fight, maybe give up the AI deck for a series of general attacks they prepare in advance, but how the players fight and handle things can very much stay the same.
For KDM. It went around the KDM general threads during the KS. Basically the idea was that the KD universe was hell and that anything that was a "Dragon" (like the Dragon King and Satan/Ivory Dragon) was an angel -- fallen in the case of all but the Dragon King.
That theory was terrible.
Yeah, it really was. And I didn't even go into a fraction of the autism involved.
Yeah the theory seems pretty lame.
Oh yeah of course. The AI deck is burley somehing that would only work in a table too thing. With a dedicated DM, you'de basically no longer need it.
here are some hopefully less terrible theories. Some date back to KS general spitballing, others are careful attempts to piece together lore, others are nonsense off the top of my head.
>The crusade of the Black Knights in which Percival and the rest of her order fell was against the Holy Lands in some capacity
>It was in this conflict, possibly because of Percival herself, that the Lion Knight became obsessed with the beauty of humanity and abandoned the Holy Lands
>The Twilight order dates back to the Lion Civ, as evidenced by their shared iconography with the Lost Knight
>Reality is subjective in the world of Kingdom Death -- if enough people believe something, it can become real. (See the hunt event "Feet")
>The crusade of the Black Knights in which Percival and the rest of her order fell was against the Holy Lands in some capacity
>It was in this conflict, possibly because of Percival herself, that the Lion Knight became obsessed with the beauty of humanity and abandoned the Holy Lands
I can dig this theory.
Honestly the entire setting is just fascinating to me, because of just all the little oddities that inhabit it. Humanity being the written into existance creations of a middle tier being being one of them.
Hmm, would the player start like in the game, right in the thick of it? Or would they perhaps start in a pre established settlement?
And would the possibility of conquering the plains of stone faces and creating a more permanant society be possible?
Hmm, if one were to become a twilight knight, would they be forced to leave the settlement or no?
I didnt think it was a terrrible theory, it was also sort of that anything with a Constellation was a Dragon, the new monster "Dragon Goblin" helped the theory along a tiny bit, and if the Gambler had been a Dragon too, but theres the story bit that it gambled its original body away so we'll never know until the next one shows up.
Also with the stone faces being Hell from Berzerk it wasnt a terrible theory, though dont think they were intended to be literal Angels or w/e, but the idea that the original Entities that were the People of the Stars are Dragons and are the Constellations sort of holds water, as much as any of the KD lore bits work out
The Great Game Hunters City, not sure if it has a name or is just "The Great City" would be a great place for a Kingdom Death campaign too i think.
Its a very family/aristocratic run city where the best and richest families have power, coins are minted in blood and theres machinery and guns etc, though naturally, behind the scenes theres a lot of family intrigue and backstabbing, and then behind that are some sinister entities manipulating/feeding off this stuff. Can also go on regular hunts etc
More of the behind the scenes political stuff, probably some Blades in the Dark thing than scared humans fighting from nothing, interesting anyway
Check out the lore for the Nobles and Cooks, they are probably connected to the Great Game Hunters. (i mean, the cooks for sure)
>And would the possibility of conquering the plains of stone faces and creating a more permanant society be possible?
Seems like it? The opportunity to rise from survivors sheltering beneath the Sword of Damocles that is The Watcher into something more like the Black Knights, Great Game Hunters, White Speaker Cult, or Twilight Order is a perishingly thin chance, but it clearly is a chance, since others have done it. There are stories, even evidence, of petty humans that have defied the Great Entities and though any light, no matter how brilliant, will burn out in time we do have evidence of those that are able to achieve some true greatness and so much more than your standard playable settlement is capable of before it's inevitable date with a flashlight-obsessed ghost
I wasn't aware female survivors actually had nipples or areola, I thought they just had big orbs of chest fat considering how risqué those strips of "clothing" tend to be.
Survivors are properly endowed in art. The models are a little bit safer but those areas are typically intended to be covered in build anyway.
>And would the possibility of conquering the plains of stone faces and creating a more permanant society be possible?
I don't think so, considering when the Watcher / Lantern horde wakes up and godzillas your settlement you're back to square one but with every monster on the plain coming for you now.
any chance of success makes it no longer grimdark