How do get the divided states of america?

It depends how the USA disintegrates and whether they cant just get a trade agreement going immedaitely

California would become one of the most powerful economies in the world, around the top 10.

California would also have the highest tax rates, to pay for the desalination plants it would need for drinkable and agricultural water, since the bordering states would reclaim their watersheds!

Look up "Agenda 21"

Cali would destroy itself.

Not to mention, as said above, center states would cut access to the continental aquifer. That would return most of the southern half of cali to the desert it was originally.

Coastal states surrounded by impregnable walls to keep the poors from middle america from trying to emigrate.

This leads in to where it gets kind of screwy in terms of which states would join up and break up

depends on how they separate, is it violent? then the high population states with actual value would have probably been fucked, so cali, new york, texas, oregeon washington,

not violent, then those same states would be the most likely to sustain themselves, with the exception of new york, too many fucking people. California would probably eat orgeon and washington, texas would eat the states near it too. then those two super states would stare at each other and think mean thoughts as they squabble over the midwestern farmland. Super cali probably be the best off considering they have a good position to trade with aisia still, as well as having the massive amounts of farmland to feed everyone. Super texas has easier access to the breadbasket but still they have to bring that shit in. east coast is fucked unless they get in on that action.

Washington/Oregon are kind of weird in that they'd probably willingly go with north Cali, but would sooner join Canada than south Cali
Canada's role in general is also kind of a big factor

California stop doing well REALLY fast once they stop getting the water they import from other states. They'd be bullied to heck and back unless they started conquering.

Wait, when did California START doing well?

I move for Texas and California to ally both as a defense against Mexico and to pincer bully the entire Western half of the former USA.

Honestly, the water-rights wars would go down pretty quickly in favor of California and Texas. Both have relatively massive populations, decent economies, international trade ties, and good amounts of industry.

Whereas the non-coastal West and Southwest are fairly low in population, don't have too many international trade ties or great economies, and don't have too much in the way of industry.

As for domestic water usage, you might see regulations that prevent farmers from pumping up $500 worth of water to grow $100 worth of alfalfa. It makes a certain sort of sense when their only cost for the water is pumping it.

There's also all sorts of reduced-water growing, such as hydroponics and aquaponics, that don't actually need farmland, but would need a lot of power, which can be provided via solar farms.

It'd take time and money, but so long as California survives the immediate, it has both.

California by itself is something like the 6th largest economy in the world, with trade ties all over the Pacific. It has some issues, but it's certainly doing quite well.

I don't know if I agree. I mean, unless you're talking about the Jefferson nonsense, but that's mainly portions of inland Northern CA and Southern Oregon, and literal nonsense.

Unless all trade stops and has to wait on treaties before it can go again, I don't see a major interruption of formerly-internal trade. If one State wants to try to close the borders and charge huge tolls on through-traffic, all a neighboring State has to do is be cheaper.

The coastal states also have a bunch of ports. They can import food internationally if they need to, but California is a net exporter of foodstuffs anyhow, including rice.

Depends on how things shake down. At the same time that people like to say "The Coast would starve without the Flyover states!", the coast is also where the flyover state farms sell their goods. No sales, no taxes.

The "flyover" stats would sadly have a lot of problems initially (perhaps to the point of collapse) because their declined or depressed local economies would have no real appeal to anyone doing business.
At best they could leverage farms like they do now, except most of those are already Monsanto-owned or other large agricultural-owned farms which would continue doing business with profitable clientele in other states.
The state could ban business farms like that I suppose, but that would basically be like removing one of the state's only sources of actual revenue, which would NOT hurt it's economy.
In theory the lack of Federal taxes would improve their local economies a bit, but in practice we see states like Kansas falling apart economically under Governer Brownback after doing that because as it turns out even if you reduce all of your taxes that strain your state economy you STILL need an actual developed and diverse economy to really benefit from that, and a lot of the flyover states don't have any because local businesses are subsidized or just not there anymore because the state wasn't really a significant enough market.
The state could feed itself with it's own farms thankfully, but nobody would really get anything better then that out of life and it would be struggling with it's own complete lack of internal infrastructure.

Yes I'm from Kansas, and yes I'm bitter.

>Brownback
Not to be political, but why did you guys keep electing that ass if he fucked up so badly?

Well he first kept his seat because he talked about Jesus a lot and I guess to some people that matters then his actual performance at his job, though I cannot speak to why.
Then when he had lower approval in the state then almost any other governor it was just gerrymandering removing any chance of him loosing.

Of course now the GOP is getting rid of him because he's an embarrassment by giving him some silly "religious ambassador" position that entails him not fucking being in Kansas anymore.

This is unironically true for me.

California alone is one of top 5 economies in the world. We also have one of the strongest agriculture encomies in the USA and supply a shit ton of food. The central valley is fertile as fuck and has a year long growing season

In a divided states settings California can easily become a powerhouse, especially if it can secure water for itself. However, California would probably try to negotiate for water rather than conquer it as we're liberal as fuck, so we might get shafted diplomatically but still refuse military action unless we're actually attacked.

Maybe it just the memes, but as someone who isn't American Texas always gave me the impression that they could become independent and not die from dehydration (California).

Is there still an economy left? Are the rest of the world interested or they are ignoring what happening?

Texas's economy is heavily centered around a lot of oil extraction and refining. They've got other stuff in there, but that's where their money is for the moment.

Should that crater, then their economy kinda tanks.

Use the crimson sky's map.

you don't realize just how callous and self-centered liberals actually are. just try offering a different opinion to one and see how quickly they turn on you.

California will quickly become a threat to it's pacific neighbors and it will do so under the guise of "the greater good." they will probably also be tossing around terms such as marxist utopia.

>you don't realize just how callous and self-centered liberals actually are
Go home /pol/ and stop shitting up another decent thread

An independent California would be trapped in a miniature Chinese dilemma; mass secessions/rebellions will light up if the economy even so much as slows to 1% GDP growth for too long.

Nah, we pay more to Federal tax than we receive in Federal aid. California is full of pussies, or as /pol/ likes to put it: Nu-beta males. We'll be pissy towards the conservative states, but they'll just ignore us.

I can see that. There's groups that want to spilt California to up to 5 different states. And the rural parts which generally get no representation compared to our massive costal cities might band together.

Ain't goin' be no economy in the Wasteland, boy. Just death an' desolation.

Then the state with the most guns wins

Not if we kill each other first, boy. Reckon there's a whole helluva lot of folks that'll need killin' round here.

The states at the top of this list would bully the fuck out of the rest and probably annex/liberate/whatever their neighbors.

Florida and georgia would probably form a union and bully the fuck out of everyone else in the south east

Those guys and gals will go home. They ain't from them states; they're just stationed there. Ain't no Ohio boy gonna fight a war against his family for Texas or Virginia.

What do you guys think would happen to the Rockies?

Coloradian here; we sit on one of the main gate ways to the Rockies. We have some decent farm land on both sides of the divide, grains on the east and fruits on the west. Water would be the biggest issue, both for ourselves and for interstate relationships. No water flows into Colorado, it all comes from rainfall, primarily on the western side. California and that dumb city in the desert use a ton of water from the Colorado river. We could damn that shit up here, but that'd cause some serious political shit storm. A great tech industry along the front range, possibly able to rival Texas'. And heavily defensible territory (or at the very least, a pain in the ass to subjugate with guerrilla warfare in the mountains, and everyone owning a gun up there) as well as an Air force academy, and a literal mountain hollowed out for a government HQ.

Would most of the surrounding Rockies States try to group up for mutual protection from the super powers on both sides? That would be a fantastic logistical position, both for trade and for protection. Or would it get nibbled to death by the super powers as they try to one up each other?

New Mexico would probably be mostly or partially devoured by Texas; eastern edge of Colorado would most likely suffer the same fate as Kansas, as its mostly all plains; Utah, Colorado, and Wyoming would probably form the core of the Rocky States; Montana and Idaho might join up as well, if Montana doesn't get taken by Canada and Idaho by Oregon.

Curious if any other people from the Rockies would like to chime in.

lmgtfy.com/?q=eleven nations theory

The problem is that Mexico and Canada will move in unless you form up with California, Texas, or both.
The fate of the Rocky States will likely be as proxies in wars between those four nations.

A rockys pack might work,it would keep californa from bullying the rest of america while also filling out the midwest
The problem is getting flanked by texas and californa
And this is all assuming valiforna doesn't fall apart because of the multiple political shitstorms that would occur

You also have to factor in what kinds of troops those are too, their equipment, and their ease of supplying their troops with the necessary military equipment and amenities.

Colorado has a good airforce at the ready, giving it good reach and power, but aircraft are expensive as hell to operate and maintain. Plus being land locked between West Coast and Texas makes logistics a pain if we don't have trade agreements.
East Coast would actually be really well off in that regard. Easy access to NATO equipment and trade with other European/African countries. Plus blockading the east coast is a lot harder than blockading choke points in the Gulf of Mexico that Texas would have to sail through.
I always forget about Hawaii (and Alaska as well) when we talk about Balkanizing the states. Hawaii's pretty solid; as long as it can keep its trade since it has to import so much shit, especially building materials. Though considering its position and naval superiority, it'd be pretty hard to touch Hawaii's trade.

And as meh as Coast Guard are typically seen, they could be some of the biggest influences in military operations along the eastern and western coasts.

Pretty much. The amount of military resources that happen to be in a given state would be a factor (of the top of my head I assume there's probably more in the south), but I don't think you could really count on those specific numbers

Generally speaking, the states you're talking about "floundering" are also the states that already give more to the federal government than they take, and the states you're talking about supporting them take more from the federal government than they give. It doesn't take a diplomatic genius to continue sending the extra money where it always went in exchange for the food continuing to come from where it always came from after the federal middle-man dissolves. It's not guaranteed, but I don't think it's nearly as unlikely or fragile as you think it is.

The only REAL outlier to this rule is Hawaii, which both does not produce its own food, and is high on the federal dependency scale.... but Hawaii will be alright, because their main economic export, DWARFING every other, is Tourism, and I have difficulty seeing even a post-apocalyptic future where the ultra-wealthy don't want to vacation in Hawaii.

Hawaii would be on the cusp of beign a world naval super power seeing as most of the pacific fleets would go there if shit went bad
Depending on what caused the US to go, they may be planning pn a naval invasion of the west coast onwards in order to restore the united states

Will the South rise again? Can the Old Confederacy band together to beat back the darkness, kill the mutant hordes, and save America?

You can't. If the Fed is gone, either those military units were destroyed, dissolved, or became rapacious warlord hordes. Those aren't state assets. Those are loose cannons.

Most likely
Georgia and alabam are major food producers, carolinas have shit on lock down,florida is extreemly important also
>disney
And at that point they just bully the rest of the confeds to join back up

California Empire when?

Texas, son. If it buys back in, the rest won't have a choice, and teaming up with the others guarantees Gulf domination and Atlantic access.

You act like they aren't people
The armys would either go home or stay under the control of their superiors
Only the insane assholes will go full asshole warbands

As someone who lives in Hawaii, there would be little, if any, desire to "conquer" anything that wouldn't be perceived as sufficiently "Hawaiian." Open warfare is bad for tourism, and the tourism industry is very Very VERY powerful here, to the point that it can exert a SHITLOAD of control over the government.

Hawaii WOULD need food, because we just plain don't farm here, save for a few statistically negligible outlier organic farms, and "agricultural tourism" where you pay to live and work on a farm for your vacation. We get... like... MOST of our money from tourism, and we wouldn't be about to give that shit up. However, we WOULD need food, and WOULD have a shitload of naval military power. I could see Hawaii selling protection to various south pacific islands, and the states on the west coast in exchange for the food resources we cannot produce.

Yes, the military/naval bases are a big political power here, but the collective will of the big tourism/hotel brands is an even bigger political power. Invasion would make it difficult for people to vacation here. Selling protection would not.

Never
South californa(traditionaly right wing) would want out,communist would start acting up, if they try to advance west they get fucked by the rockys, they run out of water almost immedietly, and most of their lands are deserts

California and Texas would become the strongest states pretty much instantly no matter the scenario.

As for weakest state, it really depends on how the country disintegrates.

While the region may coalesce into a loose alliance and rise to prominence, they couldn't realistically associate themselves with the old Confederacy or its symbols. It would be too controversial even in a post-breakup scenario since the Confederacy means such wildly different things to different people.

What superiors? The Fed is gone. At some point, it's just General McArmy or Admiral Navyson. What do they do? They don't have a boss anymore.

Even against the swarthy hordes of mutants and monsters?

It depends on how things went down
General Mcarmy and admral navyson may be planning on trying to bring back the union or they may be helping out the new governments or maybe they plan on just surviving until order comes back

No gun cuck states like California get raped to death by bullets

Do you think there aren't guns in California?

I cab almost guarantee that in the event of a federal collapse, the army at least would completely dissolve. A solid 90% just don't give a shit and are in it for a job. There is very little loyalty to the Battalion or brigade commander. They are mostly cock ups. Generals can and are even worse.

Have fun getting popped by rednecks with tricked out AR15s lol

A friend of mine told me Massachusetts (my current state) would skyrocket in terms of quality of life if we seceded properly and kept our trade relations. Like if we suddenly became our own country we'd be pretty high in the world in terms of education and health. Not sure if I believe it though since like everyone said, it depends how it all goes down.

The QOL would go down for even the most successful winners of a breakup scenario. So much of our current wealth depends on the free flow of goods, services, utilities, etc. across state borders. Massachusetts wouldn't be able to sustain all of its education and healthcare programs at the same level when it finds itself surrounded by international borders and has to make separate trade arrangements with all of them.

>As for weakest state, it really depends on how the country disintegrates.
No, not really, it' doesn't. Although I can see how that would be the 'reasonable' position, except for one thing:
Rhode Island.

The weakest state will be Rhode Island. They are fuck tiny.
The only way for them to survive that I can think of would be to join up with people they don't like.
Which is practically everyone else.

And everyone still wonders why rhode island even exist

What would happen to Arizona, New Mexico, and Nevada?

Most of its just desert. Is there anything there that could let it stay together as its own state, or anything there that California, Texas, or the Rockies would want?

I can't even fathom what might happen to Las Vegas, but whatever it is, I'm glad I'll be far away from it

Rhode Island seemed like easy picking, but THEORETICALLY, the fact that it's small doesn't make it bad. It could go the small, well-run city-state route with ease. It may not have power, but it wouldn't be fucking crippled.

West Virginia on the other hand would be FUCKED without some kind of help.

Easy, city state with its own city militia, it is also home of Macarmyirishman, the 5 star general before the fall. This is why no one fucks with vegas, but it is still a shit hole when cpmpared to other city states like newyork and denver

>NJ is the one of the states least dependent on the feds

I knew we were good at something

You wanna bet? Everyone here is already so impoverished we wouldn't even notice. Our biggest resources are sheer grit and determination, guns, and coal.

I think in as nation-collapse scenario we'd be fine as long as everyone else leaves us alone.

Fellow Kansan here, fuck Brownback.

In a situation of national anarchy, the great plains would probably devolve into oligarchy as their piss-poor governments crumble. Lawrence will become some bloated heretical hub of culture while Topeka devolves into a similar state as all the tiny Population of Thirty church towns scattered around between swaths of farmland, with even more rampant crime and poverty.

Kansas City will be unchanged, and they'll probably actually start using the river again. Missouri will likely claim the whole thing while Kansas is busy killing each other and devolving into John Brown era strife.

Farmers would become barons (there's an entire culture of millionaire farmers out here with drone collections and McMansions, it's the weirdest fucking thing), and ownership of whatever government remains would likely land on them.

Missouri would probably be similar, and I'm not going to pretend to know anything about Nebraska or Oklahoma.

>I think in as nation-collapse scenario we'd be fine as long as everyone else leaves us alone.
Said the hunter-gatherer to the farmer, probably.

I'd just like to point out if we're talking about a total shit hitting fan collapse the states without some kind of extractable energy reserve are fucked.

Alaska is fucked too, despite their hardy nature and massive oil reserves they pretty much rely on the rest of the states to import food, textiles, machined goods, refined fuels etc

If theirs one thimg NJ is good for, it's orginized crime,
Reminder "everythings legal in jersey

Maybe you're right.

My family is from West Virginia, but I've only been there once to visit my Grandfather.

Dude, I was shocked at the level of poverty those fuckers were in.

Listen dude, there's enough flat land here to farm, pretty much everyone has some level of skill in bushcraft and proficiency with firearms, we have fuel for ages, some of the most defensible terrain on the planet, and literally everyone outside the cities is either family or close friends with each other. Our poverty is our strength. We're old school here, if something breaks we just go to the workshop and make a new part because we can't afford to buy it. If the car breaks down we fix it ourselves because we can't afford to take it to the garage.

Our only real threat would be outside incursion, and as America's own miniature Switzerland, I'm not really worried about that either as long as they leave the jets at home, which they will. Anyone with air assets is going to be using them to defend their home turf from the other guy with air assets instead of using their now-irreplaceable planes and munitions to bomb dirt farmers.

Or epidemic-scale disease, I guess. But everyone is fucked in that scenario no matter where you are.

Utah goes openly theocratic and starts Crusading

Never thought I'd see a list that has my home state of Minnesota so close to New Jersey or Delaware on any subject.

Oh but don't get me wrong, this place would get weird fast. There's going to be at least one local cult to Prince, if it doesn't exist already now.

Rust belt bands together and becomes the most powerful nation to arise from post-balkanized America

Did four years in Topeka, and Topeka is the kind of place where you talk about living there in the same terms as prison time. Funny enough, I worked for one of the land barons and interacted with the Brownbacks socially. From my every interaction he's a good guy, and he genuinely believes a goodly percentage of what he says. He just has the unfortunate characteristic of being dead wrong, and on the big shit.

I've lived in Topeka for 21 years, and it's absolutely on par with prison time. I've done house work and animal care for a couple of rich farm families; they paid me like $15 an hour, and fed me for free, but also treated me like a third world servant to the point where I had to quit.

Brownback is one of those sad cases of someone genuinely believing that their bullshit is the right thing. On one hand, I'm glad he's getting dragged off to DC. On the other hand, I'm terrified by the fact that the office will be run by a guy whose idea of religious freedom is a legal public discrimination statute.

Pretty sure the entire city will crumble with the rest of Kansas in OP's proposed situation.

No, I mean, prosperity counting on not a single group trying to take your land and raping your women is not a stable arrangement of civilization.

Either the weak eat the strong, or the weak band together to become strong, or the weak becomes just bothersome enough to scare off the strong, or the weak allies with the strong, or the weak plays 2 opposing strongs like a fiddle.
But wishing the strong to go away doesn't work.

>I don't know if I agree. I mean, unless you're talking about the Jefferson nonsense, but that's mainly portions of inland Northern CA and Southern Oregon, and literal nonsense.
hardly nonsense
quite a lot of sentiment i've seen from "native" families up here in WA tend to be that the entire state is going to shit because of californian migrants. the common line given is that the average person from there is a horrible idiot that barely understands common decency, let alone how to hold a conversation

Is there something about
>As America's own miniature Switzerland
that doesn't get the point across?

I'm not saying "oh we're fucked if anyone decides to mess with us sure hope they don't", it's that our unique society allows us a great chance of success in a collapse scenario. The only threats to us are external. We won't starve, we won't freeze, we have plenty of water, our only threats are disease and outside incursion. And anyone that tries to invade us is sticking their dick into a nest of extra-pissed off hornets.

You seem to be missing the point my man, modern civilization and it's comforts and luxuries only make us look like we're weak. In a shit-hitting-fan scenario, we become a superpower over night, if only for the fact that we'll be one of the only places where the lights still turn on.

This thread certainly won't devolve into /pol/ level left coast/right coast v flyover states. Not at all.

For your listening pleasure.
broadcastify.com/listen/feed/763/web
Let's see what's going on tonight.

It's really not though, I think you've just spent too much time on /pol/

Really, I mean it is Veeky Forums and we're all assholes faggots and autists, but some boards do tend to lend themselves towards more civil discussion.

You're at post 90 dude. This thread isn't devolving into anything unless you force it to

This. Fuck Maryland.

That's probably Arizona. They get most of their water from wells too.

>I'm not really sure about the rest of the east coast in general though.
Maine actually beat out california in a lot of measurements of organic and local food and califags were massively buttmad about it

Yup. Bought and read that book. Keep going back to it, too. However, I don't think the "Far West" would be viable and would end up annexed or controlled by various other nations.

Probably would be called Pacifica or the Pacific Union, likely to include Washington, Oregon, Nevada, Idaho, and possibly parts of Montana. The latter two likely by force.

Hitting the Rockies would be like hitting a wall, and Left Coasters (as per 11 Nations Theory) aren't really the crusading type.

I'm fairly liberal, from California, and have guns in the house. A lot of my friends did, too.

Nevada would probably go to California. The rest might just become useless empty land.

It's nonsense. Loud nonsense, but nonsense. There's nowhere near any actual level of support for it, and it's all fiananced by foreign - and I mean non-American - people. So's the "Split California Into Five" movement.

Well, y'know what they say, if you do decent when there's low expectations....

IMPERIA PACIFICA

SCHWARZENEGGER REX

I was thinking the same thing
good shit