What do you think the argument was over?

He was playing lands in front

Tore a card to see if it was fake.

I feel better about the saltiness in my group.

Is that fucking Melissa DeTora?

I bet he tapped his permanents counterclockwise. Stabbing was too good for him.

He played a card that was banned, but didn't know it was banned.

...

>preventing mana screw is cheating

The land system is just garbage. There's a reason Pokemon decks only have 10 or less energy cards out of 60 cards nowadays.

How are you recovering?

This. The tap symbol shows you which way to turn the card

It's an awkward motion compared to turning it counterclockwise.

Not for lefties

But subhuman scum should just adapt

>preventing mana screw is cheating
Objectively yes.

Let's settle this once and for all:
>no mana weaving = purely random
>mana weaving = pseudorandom
Some people like one, some like the other, but when you are at the tournament, you abide by its rules.

>play Magic
>get stabbed

The absolute state of MTG

Read that as police in an argument about MTG and stabbing some guy.

>there's a reason Pokemon decks have 10 or less energy nowadays

Because every Pokemon deck is based around exploiting a single Pokemon's attacks and there are a million and one ways to tutor and draw through your deck to hit the energy cards you need?

...

Well, if it were YGO, he might have gotten shot instead.

I have no idea what motion you are calling awkward. I can instinctively rotate a card clockwise and counter clockwise with either hand.

Nah. His stuff would have just been stolen.

If they get super autistic about it I just call a judge and have him shuffle my deck to shut them up. It also looks very good on me to the judge since I'm trying to move the game forward and not waste time.

I saw him at our FLGS once

ama

What colors does he play?

It was a standard night I think, so he probably netdecks (I base this off of the stabbing part and my experiences with these people).

I also deliver food and the apartment cluster he's in is a fucking crack zone on one side and pretty okay on the other. I'm going to assume he was on crack side with the octoplexes. All degenerate grease stains in this city live in octoplexes for some fucking reason.

faceberg.com/elija.creech

Found is profile page. Jesus fucking christ.

Yup

Not funny

I bet he didn't use a coaster.

>his surname has REE in it

It's like poetry. It rhymes.

Well said.
It's settled.

Now, to be unsettling:

>Mana weavers wasting everyone's time deserve to be stabbed.
FTFY
I never do it if it would make my opponent wait.
I usually do it when chilling with friends or halfassedly between opponents at tourneys.

>it does something and you're cheating.
>>preventing mana screw is cheating
>Objectively yes.
Citation needed.
It is only cheating if it is an unfair advantage.
Nothing is preventing my opponent from doing it too.

>>But it doesn't do anything.
It does, lands and other cards clump together.
People who say that are idiots.

>>Then you're stacking the deck.
>>No, I shuffle it after, see?
>>Then why are you mana weaving?
Because, randomizing the deck from a state of uniform dispersal then using an imprecise and imperfect shuffling method yields a more even result than from randomizing the deck from a state of extreme clumps of segregated order then using an imprecise and imperfect shuffling method.
Both approaches yield imperfect results, one is more likely to generate a poor game.
Ideally, a more thorough and effective shuffling method should be used, but they are far too time consuming.

>>play with sleeves
I do.

>>Cut it however much you want
>>Fine. I'm taking out the lands and putting them all in one clump!
>>But it's OK, LOOK HAHAHA I'M SHUFFLING IT AFTAAARRRRGGGHHH
Okay fine, no problem. I'll just take the extra time to thoroughly shuffle afterwards.
Did you bring a snack?

>It is only cheating if it is an unfair advantage.
It is an unfair advantage to stack your deck to prevent mana screw. Different decks are more reliant on drawing mana consistently than others. You can build your deck around a smoother mana ramp.

>Nothing is preventing my opponent from doing it too.
This is a fallacious argument. Just because your opponent can also cheat doesn't make it not cheating. Even if your opponent is fine with it mana weaving is still breaking the rules. If you don't make it very clear what you're doing and ask for permission it's cheating by definition.

>It is only cheating if it is an unfair advantage. Nothing is preventing my opponent from doing it too.

>It isn't cheating because my opponent can cheat too

>I'll just take the extra time to thoroughly shuffle afterwards. Did you bring a snack?

You don't get to shuffle again after your opponent cuts. Even if you could I could just call a judge on you for slow play.

as a former yugioh player, I can confirm this.

I mean, there was also that one dude who got murdered over a bunch of magic cards

Who cares, another dead cardfag is always good.

>dead
The guy lived.

We gotta fix that.

>St. Cloud

MN guy here, not surprised at all

>Different decks are more reliant on drawing mana consistently than others.
Fair point.
But that's a pretty subtle line.

>If you don't make it very clear what you're doing and ask for permission it's cheating by definition.
What are the guidelines for what you can and cannot do to your deck before bringing it to the game and shuffling it?

>>It isn't cheating because my opponent can cheat too
And if everyone cheats the same way for long enough, the conventions, and then the rules, change.

>>I'll just take the extra time to thoroughly shuffle afterwards. Did you bring a snack?
>You don't get to shuffle again after your opponent cuts. Even if you could I could just call a judge on you for slow play.
You realize that this would taking place after my opponent dug out my land and put them into a clump in my deck, right?
That's not exactly kosher "cutting" either.
We're just hammering out how he wants me to randomize my deck.
He gets to cut after I thoroughly shuffle the deck.
If he calls the judge over, I will ask him about the whole "clumping the land" thing.
The judge might stab both of us.

If someone were to get stabbed at your table what wouldn't be the most likely reason?

Treating his sideboard like a Vegas brothel.

You've never played competitive magic have you? Mana weaving may not be looked down upon at your kitchen table, but any unfair advantage is a huge deal for grinders and pros over the course of 15< rounds.

I'm actually about to go to my first real competitive event. What should I know?

Proof that Magic players are psychopaths

Don't let your wife come along. It makes things.... uncomfortable.

N-noted.

>You've never played competitive magic have you?
See
>I usually do it when chilling with friends or halfassedly between opponents at tourneys.
Mostly prereleases.

Trying to netdeck in Commander.

You. I like you.

>Nothing is preventing my opponent from doing it too.
Uh yes there is
It's called the rules

Looks like a typical MTG loser.
I never really cared one way or the other about magicfags until the local gaming store started hosting tournaments every weekend.... everyone there acted like autistic children and they all got so worked up over everything. Literally the most annoying 'people' I've ever been around.

>Proof that Magic players are psychopaths
>An article about a Magic player who's murdered by a psychopath

With all of the arguments it starts, I'd have thought there'd be some definitive study on manaweaving by now. It'd be easy as fuck to do - grab a pro card player, pay him few hundred dollars for an afternoon or two of his time, get him to shuffle woven and non-woven decks a couple hundred times, analyze the results for size and number of clumps.

It does prove that at least one Magic player is a psychopath.

That's playing games, and you're not allowed to play games in MtG.

Which member of the Gatewatch was the best waifu. It's Gideon

You know that greentext was a hypothetical conversation between the people involved in the stabbing, right?
I wasn't actually talking to you or anybody in particular.

Mana weaving is fine in exactly one condition:
>Playing edh, your deck is already sorted into nonlands vs lands, or by mana cost, or however you do it
>You are allowed a single mana weave followed by a pile shuffle and a couple of mashes, and then your opponent may cut your deck

Pile shuffling is objectively fine. Mashing isn't random, it's pseudo randomization relative to pile composition. Cards in groups will remain in groups unless they get broken up.

Oh yeah, totally.

It just framed the points against manaweaving nicely, so I addressed it directly.
Because that's what I wanted to talk about, rather than speculating on why Pokey McStabberson shanked a dude.

Near as I can tell, the only real reason not to manaweave
(when it won't waste other people's time) is because some, as yet unquoted, rule says so.

If a tag on my mattress bothers me, I'm tearing it off.

Opponent forced him to discard Murderous Compulsion.

At least it didn't happen here in ths Twin Cities or else the cops would have ptobably shot them both.

>prereleases

Yeah so you've not played actual competitive magic.

But it never says the dude played magic, just that he murdered the guy to steal hos cards.

It seems to me like Mana Weaving is cheating because you're shuffling a pre-arranged deck rather than shuffling a fully randomized deck.

I'll explain it one last time you mouth breather. There are only two possibilities from mana weaving. Either the shuffling afterwards makes the weaving irrelevant and you've just wasted your opponent's time or the weaving affects the randomization of the subsequent shuffling and you're cheating.

Which result is true is irrelevant.

If you say so.
I can't sink hundreds of dollars into building whatever netdeck is winning all the time, no.

THAT'S MY

PURPLE

PLATYPUS

>taps for 3 toots and casts a double blindside

How much shuffling does it take to achieve a fully randomized deck?
How do you achieve a fully randomized deck?

You fully randomize a deck by throwing it on the floor and then putting the cards together, then shuffling.

If you put the cards in a specific order, knowing the chances of how shuffling will affect that order, you are stacking the deck.

Prereleases are literally, as stated by wizards, the most casual sanctioned event.

...

>you've just wasted your opponent's time
See
>I never do it if it would make my opponent wait.

>weaving affects the randomization of the subsequent shuffling
>Randomizing the deck from a state of uniform dispersal then using an imprecise and imperfect shuffling method yields a more even result than from randomizing the deck from a state of extreme clumps of segregated order then using an imprecise and imperfect shuffling method.
>Both approaches yield imperfect results, one is more likely to generate a poor game.
>Ideally, a more thorough and effective shuffling method should be used, but they are far too time consuming.
If my opponent chooses an imperfect shuffling method that is more likely to generate a poor game, that is certainly their choice.

Would you like me to explain it one more time?

Using a standard riffle shuffle, 7 times is pretty much fully randomized.

This is a valid point.

Depending on what those cards were, it could have been a murder to sell thing.

Okay.
What if, try to follow me here, you put the cards in a specific land dispersal then you fully randomize a deck by throwing it on the floor and then putting the cards together, then shuffling.
Now you are ensured of both land dispersal, to prevent randomizing resistant clumps, and the best possible randomization.

Proxy cards.

We had an incident where someone took sharpie to already pretty good cards, not just lands, and would try to play them as the unsharpied card. Claiming that "I bought it online and got screwed" only after I was annoyed. the sharpie proxy clearly would be a good fit in his deck, he may have already had one. I personally had to make a stink about banning proxies, unless you go out and buy blank front ones or use the advertisement cards. Pretty much stopped it, they were real cheap basterds and didn't even like buying 35-50 cent cards.

I don't remember if he used that specific proxy before, and it bother me to this day. He knew that I don't like proxies. Brendon you dirty cheater. He'd always be really really picky about people rolled dice and shuffled too, that's a guilty mind. And he was the guy who we always had to work around, so I think his older friends just let him do what he wanted because he would always complain.

Woohoo!
I'm a filthy casual!

Head like a fuckin' orange.

Mana weaving works?

Not even close to remove land clumps.

>you are ensured of proper land dispersal

This is stacking the deck

>the best possible randomization

If it was randomized properly there shouldn't be an effect.

Shuffling afterwards randomizes it enough that it varies, but yeah.

Either you can shuffle perfectly every time to achieve a perfectly randomized result that reduces the likelihood of land clumps or you, at least sometimes, can't manage to shuffle perfectly and the land dispersal reduces the likelihood of land clumps

This is not that hard.

Am I the only one who simply makes sure to put my cards back in random places in my deck as I clean up a game? the amount of time you spend weaving or pile shuffling you can just make sure to avoid creating clumps in the first place.

So you admit it affects the outcome of the shuffling. You're cheating.

land clumps sometimes happen when you randomize a deck perfectly. more regular does not mean more random.

Casual isn't necessarily bad, prereleases are awesome

youtube.com/watch?v=AxJubaijQbI&t=51s

Watch this video. This professor explains the math behind a shuffled deck of playing cards, which isn't far off from a constructed Magic deck and uses the same principles. A fully randomized deck is a deck where you cannot predict the order of the cards.
Most players use a mix of different shuffling techniques in order to achieve randomness, usually riffle and mash, sometimes pull shuffling as well. Learn to shuffle without looking at your deck, because it's possible to tell which cards can go where if you do.
In addition, the little mistakes you make when shuffling, like your two piles not being even when riffle shuffling or varying the number of cards you grab when you mash/pull shuffle, make it more likely you'll randomize your deck than if you try to be 'perfect' at it and do it the exact same way every time. If you riffle shuffle with thirty cards in each pile and interleave them the exact same way twice, it will most likely return the deck to the order it was in before you shuffled it in the first place.
Shuffling is one of the cornerstones of the game, because the better you are at it, the less time you take between rounds or when you have to manage your library during a game, not to mention learning how to randomize your deck. Practice it when you have downtime, it makes a difference.

These chucklefucks will tell you that you're stacking the deck.