/tgesg/ - Weekend Elder Scrolls General

>why didn't Meridia just drop an auroran on the necromancer in that one crypt?

She just likes getting mortals to do her dirty work. Seems like most Daedric Princes do.

>why that's a nice tribunal you've got there
>be a shame if something happened to it

you knew dagoth ur was going to beat the tribunal because his mask was even goofier than almalexia's

>his mask was even goofier than almalexia's

whatever do you mean

Sun god beats snake bitch

Reminder that no one likes Gaygoth Durr

>obligatory

youtube.com/watch?v=XUhVCoTsBaM

what a grand and intoxicating innocence

Its more fun for them, its really all games to them

You s'wits will argue about anything.

C0DA

Damn these threads are slow now.

sometimes just all a thread's normal crowd happen to be elsewhere at a given time.

What is Dagoth Ur's motivation? Why is he seeing Nerevar as a friend even if what he says implies it was Nerevar who killed him, but hates the Tribunal? Would he be OK with the Tribunal if Vivec wouldn't let n'wahs in?

It could also be that they're all waiting for TES VI to be announced, a game that will surely be the long deserved sequel to Morrowind. We'll get to play the CHIMborn and it'll be like Minecraft creative mode.

Well for one, Dagoth Ur is a few tentacles short of a bull netch.

For another, I thought that his whole deal was that he claimed to be the only member of Nerevar's old crew to stay loyal to the mer by guarding the Tools, but the Tribunal convinced him that Nerevar had betrayed him or some shit. There's so many conflicting stories of what happened after Red Mountain that it's really unclear.

tfw want to create a TES inspired fantasy world but everytime I try I feel like it will always be inferiorior to Nirn and drop it for weeks.

How do I capture the magic of Tamriel?

Read a ton. Start with Crowley if you want that TES cosmology.

Take influences from real life. A lot of the 36 lessons of Vivec are influenced by Hindu culture iirc

I meant more geography-wise.

I haven't been to this thread in a few months because of work obligations, have I missed anything important? The last thing I remember was Vintage Potions.

Welcome back.

Thanks, have a guar.

I just use old geological maps of the Earth from millions of years back when I need a fantasy world map.

Trainwiz says he gets official lore handouts from bethesda now.

I never could kill one of those buggers in Morrowind. Even when they attacked me, I just ran

Dagoth Ur is in essentially cosmic divinity limbo. He technically is dead, but due to his connection to the Heart of Lorkahn he can never truly pass on. Furthermore, rather than seeing the Dreamsleeve as a whole and and achiving some of enlightenment like CHIM or losing his grasp of Ego and falling into Zero-Sum, he basically sees himself caught in the middle of the Dreamsleeve. Essentially, his goal appears to be to forcibly imprint himself onto Anu's (which he believes is his own) Dream.

The thing with Nerevar and the Tribunal and his weird perceptions on them all is a result of the Dragon Break at Red Mountain and Vivec trying to use CHIM to retcon his guilt away. Basically a bunch of timelines all got mashed together, including ones where Dagoth Ur was a traitor, ones where he tried to save Nerevar from the Tribunal, ones where the Tribunal were always gods and helped Nerevar, and ones where a hundred other things happen. His perception of which one takes precedent is what characterizes most of his views on other characters. His grasp on reality is basically decided only by what he feels like it should be, which in his mind is reconciled because he views himself as the Dreamer instead of Anu.

Someone correct me if I misspoke somewhere, I'm combining three or four different explanations I've heard over the years into one summarized accounting.

Same

I've never heard the vivec retcon theory before, could you sauce it?

It was something I got told here actually. Something about when he achieved CHIM while writing the 36 Sermons and him trying to make the reality where he was a heroic mentor to Nerevar the most prominent one. The guilt thing came from there being a secret message that says FOUL MURDER if you combine the first capital letter of every new line in one of the books.

that's cool. I know vivec felt guilt, but I'd love to see the reasoning behind thinking he tried to retcon it.

TES3MP
Canon cannons

This truly. Tried it out today and it's damn impressive. TES3MP with Tamriel Rebuilt is the dream team of the future.

If I'm remembering right, the 36 sermons were supposed to be his way of instructing the Nerevarine while at the same time building up a mythic history for himself based mostly on the timeline where he was always a benevolent god rather than the one where the ALMSIVI were traitors and eventually trying to force that version of reality to the forefront while pushing the others aside. Again that's going off stuff I've been told here or heard in fan theories, so take that with a heavy dose of salt. Fan theories based on lore and context clues are still just fan theories.

I personally can't wait for script sync, so you can all go through SSE with me and die.

On a more relevant topic: Mehrunes Dagon as the industrial revolution guy?
>Revolution and change are his spheres
>associated with ecological disaster
>Already has a visibly large amount of industry and machinery going on in the deadlands

I've always personally thought the sermons work better as a big smokescreen of murder-obfuscating bullshit than as a metaphorical or literal truth from an alternate timeline.

Imperial steamboats and Transcontinental trains when

>I thought the daedra could influence mundus more than aedra can, why didn't Meridia just drop an auroran on the necromancer in that one crypt? For that matter, what are the limits on what a daedra can and can't do (besides create new things)?

Meridia isn't a true Daedra and had participated in the creation of Nirn.
She was part of the Magna Ge before daddy Magnus got butmad at her for talking to other spirits.

Needs more inner seas.

Use some Budhist or Taoist cosmology and mix it with Renaisance Christian cultures.

That already happened, thousands of years ago.

>On a more relevant topic: Mehrunes Dagon as the industrial revolution guy?

Mehrunes Dagon bringing Communism to the masses?

Now i have my next villain plot planed out for the next game.

You can't do that, I already had a mod about a villain trying to bring communism to the masses.

That's what I always took them as. Makes the most sense for them to be that to me.

>potion of Fortify Spear created

So I had a thing I wanted to bring up here regarding something I had thought of. Probably already come up once or twice, but oh well.

Basically, I was wondering if there was any known connection between the Thu'um, tonal architecture, and sword-singing.

Essentially, the line of thought I'm working under follows the logic that all three of these forms of magic, which despite having characteristics of traditional magical arts, are accomplished without use of traditional magicka input.

In addition to this, both tonal architecture and Sword-Singing seem to rely on esoteric mathematics (see Lord Vivec's Sword-Meeting With Cyrus the Restless and discussions of cutting at precise angles and fields of degrees for examples of this in the Yokundan art).

In addition to this, tonal architecture and the thu'um both operate with the direct application of a sound with a precise focus behind it, a mathematical song used to produce a specific result in the case of architecture, the inherent conceptual meaning of a specific word in the case of the thu'um.

Then consider that all three forms of magic, which at least apparently have a connection to sound and hold some form of mythical status, are capable of somewhat similar feats, like the Thu'um being used to shout people apart or blasting down the walls of cites, tonal architecture creating energy and force through the use of sound, and the infamous Pankratosword destroying an entire continent including possibly Orichalc Tower.

In addition to this, in Skyrim, applying the thu'um, specifically the Unrelenting Force shout which generates kentic energy from seemingly nothing, not even the energies of Magnus and Aetherius, to the artificial sun of Blackreach, it creates a massive feedback wave, which to me at least, conjures images of trying to patch incompatible A/V equipment together.

1/2

Building off of this, it's interesting to note that Nirnroot, which according to the writings of the alchemist Sinderon, seems to florish only when exposed to high levels of magical radiation, such as when the ground was soaked in ash salts, during the Oblivion Crisis and Planemeld events, and after Dragons awakened and withers when magical radiation is low such as during the Sun's Death Event, emits a high pitched ringing noise.

Is it possible that sound itself is inherently magical? Is this connected to the concept of dreams being affected by unconscious sensory input, such as sounds, and the examples of this sort of craft we see in-universe are an example of such things being synthesized from within the Dream?

2/2

Yeah, the retroactive chim things strikes me as really reaching for an out there kooky theory, at the expense of just finding the right one.

Out of curiosity does anyone know how many aspects of Aka exist?

Off the top of my head:
Akatosh
Auri-el
Alduin
Alkosh
Tosh Raka
Peryite(debatable)
Ruptga

KAGNERAC WAS RIGHT VIVEC DID NEREVAREVEN AND FAKED THE ASTEROID LANDING THE WORLD IS A LIE AND AYREEN IS ACTUALLY A ROBOT SENT BY LIZARDMEN FROM THE FUTURE

>Peryite
Huh what? Can someone explain this to me? I thought Peryite was just making fun of Aka with his imperfect dragon form and not much else

Basically similar Spheres of influence ie: Order, Passage of Time, etc

Thartaag if you're gonna count Auri-El, even though it's another race specific variant.

As for the rest I always considered Tosh Raka to just have achieved CHIM rather than be an aspect of anything. And Peryite is a daedra so he can't possibly be an aspect seeing as he was around to see Akatosh pass to make Nirn exist, and in turn refuse to do the same.

Would not Trinimac, and by extension Malacath and Boethia be an example of aedra becoming daedra?

I do like the idea behind CHIM though, admittedly.

Not to discourage you, but this is a fairly well accepted fact. Good work!

Whoops. Oh well. At least I get to say I pieced together one of the wider scope lore bits on my own, even if I am a bit late to the party. Thanks for letting me know user.

The rabbit hole does go deeper with some more concepts that I can't think of right now. Maybe someone can refresh my memory.

From my understanding, the dream is akin to a song and things like the Thuum and Sword Singing are ways of manipulating the reality through editing the song

For what it's worth, it's been reinforced in the The Trial at Hogithum Hall:
>I will leave it to others to find where I have written all this before. But when Vehk the mortal reached into the Heart, he ceased to be anything except for what he wished to be. The axis erupted. There was an exact cracking, an instant of pure Aurbis, his hands burnt black by that ever-nil of static change, and Vivec the god who had never been had always been. A whole universe swelled up to legitimize his throne... as the old universe, where Vehk the mortal still lapped up Godsblood, warped itself to accept its new equivalent. And like all things magical it simply could not happen, could not Be. Red Mountain was the intersection of the Is-Is Not as it was of old, its center point, and it did not hold. And so the Dragon, having broken, saw fit to heal, turning into the world you know. Except now Vivec the God was alive before his own birth, which had, in fact, really happened in the death of the last universe. Hard to grasp in three-dimensional thought? Why, of course it is. And so that is why some semblance of my anguished personal reconciliation found its way into my own scripture. Why did I leave the Nerevarine two accounts of his death, one that I could have easily erased from the minds of my own people? Because he is Hortator, GHARTOK PADHOME AE ALTADOON DUNMERI, my lord and king in this world and the last, and as Vehk and Vehk I murdered him, then raised him, then taught to him to know, and so would I have it when he came to me at last that he decide. I give you this as Vivec.

Interesting. I both love and hate that trial.

>tolkien cant even handle it right now

>that would actually be nice after ESO

>less of the word and more of the intent behind. dragons inherently knew what everything did, because their language, which they were born knowing, always did thing when they wanted it done.

For every religion and philosophy, think of 2-3 different competing views within that philosophy. Just like real life!

Sotha Sil cut some sort of deal with most of the princes where they agreed not to intervene too directly in Nirn, instead using mortal proxies. Presumably they still hold to this agreement even after Sotha Sil's death to keep conflict from escalating among each other

Though that trial is pretty weird, and mainly just feels like MK fellating Vivec to me.

I mean. It's sort of a given that MK is going to fellate either Vivec or Cyrus as the mood strikes him.

Yeah, so it's a bit hard to consider that as canon when it's so biased.

In a weird meta way it almost makes sense considering how much in-universe stuff is intentionally heavily biased based on who you're talking to.

It's quite openly affirmed in Sermon 37
>The light bent, and somewhere a history was finally undone. Of it, Vivec remembered the laughing of the netchimen of his village when the hunts were good. He marched with his father in the ash, growing strong in the hooks and sail, able to run a junk through silt. At eleven, he sung to an ashkhan.

ESO is good.

y-you can't have those opinions you...you...you double fetcher

>Sermon 37
>37

It's actually not that bad, especially during the holiday events when there's a lot of people on and you end up with like, roving warbands of 20+ players scowering the map and leading a genocidal purge of which ever bosses have the best drop to respawn ratio.

Has it not been written by Kirkbride himself? Why this one being in ESO makes it less valid than if he published it on his blog?

>Why this one being in ESO makes it less valid
You answered your own question.
MK went to utter shit quite a while ago and Many Headed Talos was one of the fist signs.

MHT was an attempt to patch a glaring contenuality issue. Even if it wasn't perfect, it's an improvement over "lol romans",

There wasn't any need to patch it in the fist place. Much better to just admit that Oblivion fucked up the province and move on.
>"lol romans"
What.

"lol romans" being more expedient than saying "the execution of an unneeded retcon of Cyrodiil to a generic fantasy Europe setting to capitalize on a resurgence of interest in the works of Tolkine and placate Ken Rolston".

People are not okay with Cyrodil being generic fantasy but they are okay with High Rock being generic fantasy.

>High Rock
>generic
Retard.

think of it this way: high rock was the original mostly-like-europe province, tamriel didn't really need a second one

It's redundant. High Rock was already the traditional-ish fantasy setting with more werewolves and druids. There's no need for a watered down version of something we already have.

Im glad they will be putting the next ES in Hammerfall. We get to touch more on the Dwemer and it sets up for one of the last Arkavir invasions in the next next game. Shame we dont get to see Vivec again.

What exactly is your point?
Like it or not all Kirkbride has done with Sermon 37 is bring an absolute confirmation to an idea that had already been made in implicit in the original lessons.

>absolute confirmation
Think again.

Is it not direct confirmation? It certainly sounds that way to me.

What is the minimum wage in Tamriel? If you can "eat for a day with a single coin", what would people with no skills or education make? 5 septims?

In Skyrim, a ship captain named Skjar tells you he will reward you with a years worth in pay if you complete his quest.
It's reward is level based though and deviates between 500-1500 septims. Nevertheless it would mean that sailors generally make anywhere between 2 to 6 septims a day, not counting weekends.

That's the sort of thing that would vary by provence. The Empire is pretty decentralized, so it'd most likely be handled on a case by case basis.

In Markarth and Windhelm in Skyrim for example, we see miners and dock workers who are working for essentially next to nothing. Their life savings tend consist of roughly 11 drakes tops, and they're lodged in hotbunking worker's quarters. This is reinforced by Skjar who gives you "a year's pay", which comes out to somewhere around the ballpark of 1000 drakes. Even the porters in Vvardenfell seem to be doing better, at least by the items and appearances they have, implying either a higher base wage or a general greater standard of living.

Furthermore, we know little of the wage taxes in place, making it harder to determine the exact amount of money they'd be taking home. We know there's a 10% inheritance tax in Skyrim, and a tariff on EEC imported goods (which is weird because you'd think Titus I would have the foresight to make a free trade zone deal with, uh, his own country), but not much is known of the wage taxes in place.

>What was Tamriel's tax policy?

I'm not. High Rock is lame and so are bretons.
Fight me.