/osrg/ Old School Revival General + arbitrary new wave neomarxist drivel

Yes. Open d6 is a pretty awesome system, it just needs a lot of fleshing out to make it work.

No it isn't.

For real, this meme is getting tired. I'm not that other guy, but you need to cut this out before you become the new castlepasta.

What IS OSR? What are its dogmas? Where my game mechanics cross the line from OSR to new game design?

Veins of the Earth is a fairly new book by False Patrick which is essentially his take on the Underdark. The pitch is that there's much more realistic spelunking type shit in it, nightmares of darkness and claustrophobia etc etc. It's generally considered off the hook.

Honestly, I think.approaching RPG design in a dialectical fashion could yield good results, since RPGs are not a strictly mathematical but still somewhat structured and formulaic medium.

That said, has the fighter proletariat risen against the casting bourgeoisie and thieving lumpen?

Any good adventures that'd work great in the Astonishing Swordsmen & Sorcerers of Hyperborea setting?

pOsTmOdErNiSm Is MaRxIsM wEaRiNg A fUnNy HaT.
iT's JuSt DiFfErEnT eNoUgH tHaT wE cAn'T pOiNt At HiStOrY tO sAy, "we already know you're a fag"

>We're a bitter people.
Also, he's unable (or unwilling) to pick up on our secret handshakes.
And doesn't get that (pre-1300s definition) Vanity is the most obnoxious sin.

Campaign setting by Patrick Stuart.
It's the Gygaxian "the only sense the dungeon needs to make is that it's actively out the get you", but well articulated.

>How cohesive is your party?
Pretty good. Just today dealt with a bigass hive of bees - the more fragile henchman thief throws torches in for the wizard to Fireburst and blow up the enemy hordes, while the fighter and the cleric stay in front to defend the chokepoint. They all get together well and usually know what has to be done.

I went to pull it from the Trove. Yeah, I like this. This is pretty sweet.

He's got a lot of cool content, but he's also got a lot of controversial content.

Like taxes.

He also shills his blog excessively when he's not on vacation. I think he said he was on vacation anyway.

communism is my magical realm

Can confirm, is off the hook

So the RPG pundit posts here then?

Some people seem to think if it is not a OD&D/AD&D clone then it isn't OSR.

It is more about capturing the spirit of those games than about cloning the mechanics. Stuff like torchbearer is still very OSR even though it doesn't play mechanically like D&D.

>Old School Game
A game designed prior to 1990. Notable for lack of unified mechanics and clunky sub-systems. Some modern games also copy the mechanical feel - DCC. Not just TSR D&D.

>Old School Flavor
Impossible to define concretetly and in large part dependent on the genre of the game.

>Old School Revival
A "revival" of older editions and creation of retro-clones mainly in response to discontent with 3.pf and 4e (but mostly 4e for some reason). Strictly focused on TSR D&D stuff because if you try to change that focus you get dogpiled by million D&D drones.

>Grognards
Unlike you OSR hipsters, these guys never stopped playing True D&D™. cf. Knight-N-Knaves Alehouse

>DIY DND
The kind of people who make GLOG and The Black Hack, which might be good games but aren't really compatible with TSR D&D products and so aren't OSR.

>Also, he's unable (or unwilling) to pick up on our secret handshakes.
>And doesn't get that (pre-1300s definition) Vanity is the most obnoxious sin.

Secret handshakes? Like what? Being user?

I lurk this board daily and this thread consistently and I don't find the guy obnoxious.

Explain yourself

I like these definitions. Personally I think something stops being OSR when it stops being fully compatible with TSR-era D&D modules. If you need to do any conversion work, your system's gone off the rails.

>(but mostly 4e for some reason)
4e stripped away all the bullshit and went full gamist rather than gamist obscured by esoteric systems loosely justified by lore.

4e played like a board game which modeled what 3e was anyway. 3e played like a bad board game.

As to "what mechanics cross the line", the OSR is largely about being additive and not subtractive. You can add a million classes to your game and it will still work with other TSR/OSR products (especially in 2e) but if you remove classes you've dug yourself into a hole because in so many products, class has a profound mechanical effect (magic weapons). Same goes for HD, hp, AC, levels, spell levels, and a bunch of other stuff.

>If you need to do any conversion work, your system's gone off the rails.
I think light conversion work (like descending AC to ascending AC) is still in the realm of OSR.

Hey man, I don't love or hate 4e, I'm just calling it like I see it. The 3.X Internet Defense Force is still shitting on 4e all around the web.

I was thinking, normally in OSR you area bunch of averages trying to survive in a dungeon, but in D6 having a dice pool of 5+ at the start of the game already puts you in a position of power from the very start, maybe starting all players with 2d6, and giving 2-6 dice so they can distribute each level so they still be low powered

what do you think?

Honestly, historical materialism is a useful theory for world design or understanding history. The thing about marxism is that it's a lot of intelligent ideas sitting next to full retard political proposals that makes it so dangerous.

This is the most sensible definition I've seen. Though I'd define it as "if you can convert off the fly" so as to include stuff like attack bonus rather than thaco, ascending AC and the silver standard in lotfp.

Agreed. OSR material is convertible on the fly. I can run virtually anything OSR in Into the Odd or B/X.

Or would also add that a lot of OSR descends from B/X as opposed to ad&d.

It's a good thing they didn't kill the bees to the last and can get more honey next year.
It'd be a damn shame if the locals couldn't produce/export their economic-staple health pots.

Shitty memes. He doesn't join the constant back-and-forth that we all use to remind ourselves (and each other) that we're well adjusted to the community (Veeky Forums).

Contain your autism.

>autism
The opposite, actually.
It's how interacting with people or groups of people in person works, too.

Is LotFP OSR?

It has its own skill system and you need to convert from silver standard back to gold standard.

Utterly random thought for a truly nonstandard setting for a hexcrawl or sandbox, I suppose: a cybernetic world where the characters are sentient machine-people inside a sprawling (but decaying) cyber-world. Think of it as taking cue from Autochtonia from Exalted, Cybertron from Transformers, the world of Bionicle or even Mirrodin from Magic the Gathering.

It's OSR if it calls itself OSR. Don't like it? You should have complained before the Retro Phaze guy slapped a bit fat OSR emblem on his book.

He literally said he was going on vacation two threads ago. He'll be back in two weeks or so. Don't get your panties in a twist.

Houserules and tweaks are fine.

I want to pick up a game to just play, and let the rules handle themselves. Do you think 2e is the best for this?

2e's fine for it. It's got the best rules for monster races: by the looks of it you'll like that bit.

What are the rules for monster races?

...

Can you manage it without any trouble and without making notes, before or during?

>attack bonus rather than thaco
Well, it's not like you wouldn't have issues with that anyway if you tried to run different TSR editions.

It's easy enough if you just go by the hit dice, but, well. See attached image.

There's some wildly separate power levels going on in the various products. Another fine example is trying to make OD&D THAC0 work with the (much lower!) AD&D ACs - good luck hitting Asmodeus (AC-7) if your Thac0 never gets better than 7!

I made some spells. Please r8 them.

I had the v2 copy of Tower of the Stargazer in print, but had to load up the v1 copy on my tablet to get the TSR-compatible treasure values.

So maybe?

Thac0 works really well if you remember that the referee does all the calculations

Thac0-AC >= d20 *looks* clunky, but the ref gets to do the math ahead if time
The player just says the roll, the ref just has to glance at his screen and say "hit" or "miss"

>Thac0-AC >= d20
Why the fuck are you using a formula rather than just quickly cross-referencing an appropriate table that you've already added all the Weapon vs. AC modifiers and whatnot to?

They're fun and flavorful, but most of them seem to just be classic spells with a slightly different manifestation and rule attached to them.

>The player just says the roll, the ref just has to glance at his screen and say "hit" or "miss"
Same thing with ascending AC, except a glance at a screen is probably not even needed.

How come everyone seems to use THAC0-AC by default, anyway? It just adds another piece of math to it!

Like:
>If the enemy's AC is positive, you REDUCE it from your THAC0
>If the AC is negative, you ADD it
>Furthermore, it's in a completely different place as a separate bonus from all your other to-hit bonuses

The fuck sense does that make? Why not just add the AC directly to your attack roll, in the same place with the other bonuses, then see if that goes over the THAC0? One piece of clunky math less, all bonuses in the same place, what's not to love?

>The fuck sense does that make? Why not just add the AC directly to your attack roll, in the same place with the other bonuses, then see if that goes over the THAC0? One piece of clunky math less, all bonuses in the same place, what's not to love?
Because that requires the players to know the AC, and clearly we can't have that.

Serious talk, though, shit like this is why I prefer just having a bunch of small tables - lines, really - of the attack matrix printed out somewhere.

If I have to use descending AC, which to be honest I really don't.

>>Great Billowing Breath of the North
Can the Wizard speak or even open their mouth while they have inhaled all of this air?
>> Each round inhaled in combat when spell is cast is each round you can blow;
What does this mean?
>>Spare God's Rod, Spoil Man
How big of a group can you cast this on?
>>Granting the Farmer his Fortune
What happens if this is cast on a human?
>>The Conquering Hum
What is the range on this?
>>Shaft of Power
What happens if the wizard has black robes on?
>>The Witch's Brew
I really like this as a system to loot enemies for goodies and would like to see it stand alone as a class ability or something. I can definitely see this alongside a monster cooking skill as very niche campaign.
>>Chastising Appendages
How many limbs are needed to hold a spider/horse/man in place?
>>Descend the Stairscase
I'm a big fan of this tactical insertion spell

Flavor: 10/10 especially because "The tentacles
appear wherever makes the most sense." Clarity: 5/12. Using them if I played a Magic-User: 9/10 would work as a spot light technician inside a dungeon.

>most
>2-3

Not him, but I just added it in my head as DM.

Has anyone made an abridged version of the DCC spells? I like the system but every result description is so bloated and unneeded during actual play. I don't need to know that 1 equals misfire or corruption. I don't need to know that magic missile always hits the target on every positive result.

I don't think a lot of people actually HATE him, it's just that a couple do and so, as the honorary tripfag of the thread and with his over-the-top blog shilling, he becomes the easiest target of mockery

>no
>if cast in combat, you'd have to suck in air a few rounds and then number of rounds you suck in is the number of rounds you can blow
>group can be any size but the more you cast on the weaker and shorter duration it would be
>nothing, it only effects animals and farming stuff
>the range is as far as the enemy's can hear the hum, so normal hearing range for a loud shout or similar sound
>maybe a shadelight? you could probably protect a vampire in the sunlight with it
>originally I was gonna make it a dirt simple alchemy system but making it a one-a-day spell was pretty good too
>how many limbs= one tentacle per limb of the creature of course. Maybe more for really big creatures
>cool

Hey appreciate the feedback. I'm just not sure if this is going to be my stand alone magic system but I'm certainly thinking about it.

How do you manage torchlight and darkness and other such essential OSR elements, when literally everyone in the party can see in the dark?

Speaking of Wizards; how would you feel if you used the same spells and spell progression as any basic retroclone game but have spells only become stronger if placed in a higher level spell slot instead of being based on caster level?

>when literally everyone in the party can see in the dark?

Are you sure you're not playing 5E?

Only dwarves and elves have infravision. And that's not being able to see in the dark, that's being able to see heat. If they come up against undead (which also make no noise), they're fucked.

Hey there anons, ive been looking into running a Stars Without Number game, and was wondering if anyone has any thoughts, tips, etc. Im especially looking for decent hacks/homebrew/shit stolen from other systems.

If they can see in the dark, they can see in the dark out to whatever limit they have and don't really need torches.

However, since they don't really need torches they'll also be lacking in, well, torches. They have plenty of uses beyond just light, you know. Just to start, they're an easy source of fire. And an early warning system for lack of air, although they're also a risk with gas pockets so that evens out.

Continual Light basically does the same thing in replacing torches except it's harder to surprise monsters. (And you're fucked if a Beholder turns their eye towards the Wizard's staff-flashlight, of course.)

Pretty sure actual proper infravision is an optional rule that nobody uses because it's way too much trouble for its worth.

Depends on the system (TM).

I use it. Unless it differs from room temperature it's invisible unless illuminated. Honestly not that difficult.

How come?

Is there something giving off heat within 60'? If so, you can see it.

Remember that it's only in the dark, so if someone has a lantern lit then it doesn't even matter.

Have you used an AntiPhoenix in your game? Did you burn the page when it died, or are you planning to if it does?

This reminds me of a self-help book that told me to tear out a page. Instead, I stopped reading and put it in a box forever.

What's an anti-phoenix? An ice phoenix? An evil regular phoenix?

I really like the idea of having to tear out a page and remove the monster from play after using it once, but that gimmick should be reserved for something like a outer god, a prime evil, or something truly terrible and awesome to behold. Why an anti-phoenix?

LotFP absolutely is OSR.

All it's skill system does is d6-ify B/X stuff that was either a Thief skill (lockpick, disarm, stealth, etc) or that anyone could do with some sort of dice roll (search, force doors, climb, etc) and let everyone have a 1-in-6 chance to do it instead of doing ability roll-unders and what not.

I use this for my LotFP campaign to allow M-Us to recast a spell with risk. Could maybe work for DCC.

It's in Veins of the Earth, it's under _Inbox in the Trove. It's worth reading and I think it fits what you're describing.

>Why an anti-phoenix?
Because a regular phoenix returns to life after being killed.

should player characters always be weak? you know no matter that they are lvl 20 they still can be killed easiliy by mob of angry villagers

No.

Depends on the tone of your game. I don't like running fantasy superhero games, so I run systems that keep the power level grounded.

I run my game with HP as meatpoints and high attack/damage as super strength, high saves as supernatural speed, and magic as, well magic.

So no. Even once they get a few levels they're already pretty super human, much less when they reach level 20 or higher.

OK. So.
• Player says they attack.
• Player dices the game shapes.
• Player learns an arbitrary number.
• Player reports their roll.

The window between 1 and 4 is basically 2+3 (+time shifting gears).
The Thac0 ref can do the math during 2+3 without knowing the roll.

The BAB ref /cannot/. Not without pouring algebra upon it.
And at that point they're not using Base Attack Bonus.
They're using Thac0 with an extra step (the mental algebra).

...it's a fair cop.

Most dungeons can be modified to be ancient ruins on a tomb world. You have to give everything a fresh coat of sci fi but the design can be ripped.

Look into Traveller for inspiration for stars without number, SWN is a hybrid of od&d and Traveller anyway.

Overall just use the faction turn to help you make your sector come alive and run it as a sandbox. I give them a list of jobs they can pick from if they don't already have one and reward them xp based on how many credits they get for the job.

>Player dices the game shapes.
>+time shifting gears
>(the mental algebra)

As long as their almonds are activated, I see no problem.

Watch the GM prep turn videos from Adam Koebel.

I couldn't get into Swan Song, but those videos were interesting and helped clear up a lot of the SWN faction stuff.

I'm not saying they don't both work. They demonstrably both work.

I /am/ saying that in proper context, (ref handling math) Thac0 is more efficient.
Which is true. You'll do it either way, why add extra steps between recalling and using the equation?

To be honest I just didn't understand the jargon in your post, but thanks for the image. Fucking saved.

Excellent. Thank you anons

So I worked on that adventure today and I think I have it finished. What do you guys think?

Interesting. Why are swathes of the maps green, though?

Near as I can tell, that's grass,

Either unpaved ground floor or unpaved sky overlooking ground floor, depending on the map.

So large parts of the second floor are just missing?

Yah, large parts are missing on the second floor. The first floor has the green for areas that don't have a ceiling and are open to floor 2.

>gamist
Forge was a mistake.
The threefold model was a mistake.
Trying to segregate gamers into separate cages was a fucking mistake.

If worst AC is 20, best AC is 0, worst TH is 1, and best TH is 20

you can compute AC+TH ahead of time
without resorting to subtraction or negative numbers

but you have to roll equal or under a d20 labelled "11 to 30"

I guess you could buy an unpainted d20,
then paint 9 faces green, 10 faces orange, and 1 face red?

That could probably be explained better in the text itself.

Wait. Fuck.
You don't paint dice.
You dye them.

Kinda had the same reaction to it that I did to the random moment in 'Monolith' where killing a fish ends your universes, preventing you from ever DMing again...
'Who the fuck would listen to you, and therefore, why is this here?'
Now, a monster that made you *add* a page to a book? That has my interest.